After reading through a bunch of these posts, I can say that I do appreciate the idea of coin weight a bit more than I did originally. The idea of "coin-runners" making a business out of running coins for other players and exchanging currencies sounds appealing. I am all for organic tradesmen opportunities. My only concern is that players don't become over-burdened by coin early on. The early game struggle is real ... you already deal with limited bag space, slow movement, etc. The one thing I would try to veer away from (to some degree) is having players skip out on coin or loot early on when they need it most. I recently started playing on a WoW Vanilla server and have had an opportunity to experience some of these hardships. You need a skinning knife in order to skin ... you need thieves tools to pick-pocket ... hunters have one less bag slot that is instead used as a quiver. Add in umpteen quest items (some quests literally taking up a full bag of space before you can complete them) and players run out of room really fast.
Rather than being able to pick up random body parts or pairs of rusty bracers to sell to merchants for a few extra copper, the majority of stuff rots. It's super annoying having to go through my inventory every few minutes to see what I need to delete in order to make room for another item that I want to loot. The "sacrifice" is constant and usually what it comes down to is dropping the items that are basic merchant fodder. You want to keep the leather or whatever else because it's worth slightly more, but then you also need to spend time setting up your auction house listings and paying fees for doing it. It's really hard to get an influx of currency going because merchant fodder is usually the first stuff to get deleted. I'm not saying this is all bad ... there is nothing wrong with having to make choices. But when you start a dungeon group and your bags are already half full with essentials, and then they become completely full with quest items, you spend more time managing your inventory than adventuring and having fun. It's really boring and as I mentioned earlier in the thread it feels like a slap in the face.
This becomes mitigated over time when you get more bag space and whatnot but it's my understanding that VR wants to "ease people in" to some of the oldschool mechanics we are used to. One idea I can think of off the top of my head is maybe making it so that copper doesen't have weight (up to a certain amount to prevent total weight circumvention). You're never going to get rich farming copper so I don't see things getting out of control ... but if we remove the weight limit from copper in the early game, it can alleviate some of the struggles of weight management early on when it affects you the most. At the end of the day it doesen't really affect me one way or another. I doubt I'll have weight issues and I am all for meaningful choices and all that jazz but this isn't about me. Coin weight management isn't going to scare me away. How will it affect other people we are trying to bring into the fold though? Maybe it's best if we ease them into it somehow ... I don't want people to feel overly frustrated with the game prior to hitting level 10. If it's because of a death, sure ... but let's find a happy medium when it comes to inventory/weight management.
I never said anything about it being an "emulator" of EQ or Vanguard. I said that it was going to be an "old school" game in mechanics and playing style like EQ was, which is that thay have stated. They want to re-create the EXPERIENCE of that.
Edited to add: Coins having weight was a part of that experience.
Them wanting to recreate that experience is more related to it being a community/group focused game, where you barely get on by yourself. Bringing the multiplayer back into MMO's rather than just being single player Mass Online Role Playing Game. Make the world vast and meaningful again, and not to mention dangerous. A game encouring exploration, friendship and social interaction.
Coins having weight is not really a meaningful part of that experience, or even inventory weight in general, really.
I like the idea of having a maximum weight limit based on your character's strength, and I like the idea of coin having weight. But there should come a point where players get weight reduction bags just like in EQ where weight becomes almost a non-issue. Players could have pack mules or store items in their mount's saddlebags. Strength boosting spells and items would also be an option, or trading in things other than coin. I am one of those players that enjoys the roleplay aspects and I will say Black Desert Online nailed it on item and coin weight. Many players don't care about roleplaying and consider things like food/water/ammo/item weight/darkness/travel etc to be a hassle. But I am hoping Pantheon will have some of these elements...so far I know the environment will play a much larger effect than being window dressing so at least I'll have that.
I still trying to figure out what kind of "experience" you gain from coin weight? i don't see any other than being annoyed by th fact that i would have to leave grps early becuase i became over weight fromt he coin them selves and have to walk a total of maybe 40 minutes to get to a bank and back again, and imo that isnt a good "experience" and any measure, i understand where we want to keep the whole old school feeling but VR also wants to bring in new gamers into their game as well, and if they have to keep on going back to the bank over and over again becuae of coin weight, this could be a big turn off for them and might stop them from playing, would this happen to me? of course not, i've been playing EQ since a month before Kunark, but at the same time if there were one thing i could change from back than one of the big ones would of been coin weight.
Riahuf22 that is an extreme example with coin weight, usually you only ended up immobile from coin weight if you sold something extremely valuable. I have yet to see an MMORPG where mobs drop tons of coin. I'm not saying it never happened in EQ but it took quite a bit of looting to get to the stage of being immobile from coin. Banks don't serve much of a purpose without coin and item weight other than being extra storage. And honestly at that point why not just eliminate the bank concept entirely and have larger inventories?
Ziegfried said:Riahuf22 that is an extreme example with coin weight, usually you only ended up immobile from coin weight if you sold something extremely valuable. I have yet to see an MMORPG where mobs drop tons of coin. I'm not saying it never happened in EQ but it took quite a bit of looting to get to the stage of being immobile from coin. Banks don't serve much of a purpose without coin and item weight other than being extra storage. And honestly at that point why not just eliminate the bank concept entirely and have larger inventories?
I trierd to explain the same thing earlier about the chances of having a boatload of cash on you from combat, especially at lower levels, but got told that I was wrong.... Apparently some pleople managed to amass large sums of money from grouping at low levels and were able to level to max level in EQ in a weel. Although I never saw either thing happen, short of twinking and power-levelling, and I played EQ up to PoP before I finally quit.
Kalok said:Ziegfried said:Riahuf22 that is an extreme example with coin weight, usually you only ended up immobile from coin weight if you sold something extremely valuable. I have yet to see an MMORPG where mobs drop tons of coin. I'm not saying it never happened in EQ but it took quite a bit of looting to get to the stage of being immobile from coin. Banks don't serve much of a purpose without coin and item weight other than being extra storage. And honestly at that point why not just eliminate the bank concept entirely and have larger inventories?
I trierd to explain the same thing earlier about the chances of having a boatload of cash on you from combat, especially at lower levels, but got told that I was wrong.... Apparently some pleople managed to amass large sums of money from grouping at low levels and were able to level to max level in EQ in a weel. Although I never saw either thing happen, short of twinking and power-levelling, and I played EQ up to PoP before I finally quit.
It's really not that hard you can be in vanilla EQ and farm in guk and without looting anything but coin could easily become encumbered with coin within 2 hours quite easily, without looting any anything else. and the walk is real if your kos to the trolls and ogres, you would have to walk to freeport and being encumbered could literally take you 40 minutes for you to get there and back. and yes we will more than likely level quite fast Kalok compared to being stuck in 1999, like i said he know how to play the game better and only get better, just like we will be better players a year from now, so thinking that people aren't going to speed rush to max level. there is only so much you can do to stop us from leveling fast, but for as long as we keep on killing mobs we will keep on getting experience which btw = levels
Riahuf22 said:Kalok said:Ziegfried said:Riahuf22 that is an extreme example with coin weight, usually you only ended up immobile from coin weight if you sold something extremely valuable. I have yet to see an MMORPG where mobs drop tons of coin. I'm not saying it never happened in EQ but it took quite a bit of looting to get to the stage of being immobile from coin. Banks don't serve much of a purpose without coin and item weight other than being extra storage. And honestly at that point why not just eliminate the bank concept entirely and have larger inventories?
I trierd to explain the same thing earlier about the chances of having a boatload of cash on you from combat, especially at lower levels, but got told that I was wrong.... Apparently some pleople managed to amass large sums of money from grouping at low levels and were able to level to max level in EQ in a weel. Although I never saw either thing happen, short of twinking and power-levelling, and I played EQ up to PoP before I finally quit.
It's really not that hard you can be in vanilla EQ and farm in guk and without looting anything but coin could easily become encumbered with coin within 2 hours quite easily, without looting any anything else. and the walk is real if your kos to the trolls and ogres, you would have to walk to freeport and being encumbered could literally take you 40 minutes for you to get there and back. and yes we will more than likely level quite fast Kalok compared to being stuck in 1999, like i said he know how to play the game better and only get better, just like we will be better players a year from now, so thinking that people aren't going to speed rush to max level. there is only so much you can do to stop us from leveling fast, but for as long as we keep on killing mobs we will keep on getting experience which btw = levels
Except that Brad and company have already said that you're going to have to work for your levels, so I doubt you will be hammering through the levels like you can in WoW and the like, so I dare-say you're mistaken there. As I have stated before, no matter how skilled of a player you think you are, you will only level as fast as the game mechanics allow you to. Travel will take time. Mob spawn rates may be longer than you anticipate. There are all sorts of ways to end up with down-time between fights. As an example. You pick a place and start whacking mobs like it's the national past-time. But wait! There is a somewhat-longish respawn time. Now you find the area devoid of anything to kill. You now have to move to a new area. No insta-travel, so you will have to go there by walking/running/horse/boat/whatever. It's pretty simple to control all of that.
Liav said:When can we start taking bets on how long it will take for the world first 50 in Pantheon?
This is about the epitome of irrelevance for a thread about coin weight.
And yet you were the first one to bring up levelling up fast and how having to go back to the bank because of it is going to ruin the game for you.
Kalok said:And yet you were the first one to bring up levelling up fast and how having to go back to the bank because of it is going to ruin the game for you.
I'm pretty sure the only thing I've said about coin weight is that I really don't care that much either way, but I'm interested in seeing reasons why it should exist other than "EQ did it", or "coin has weight in real life".
I played EQ for years while coin weight was a thing, so surely it didn't ruin the game for me.
Please stop saying that I've said things I have demonstrably not said. Thanks.
Riahuf22 said:Kalok said:Ziegfried said:Riahuf22 that is an extreme example with coin weight, usually you only ended up immobile from coin weight if you sold something extremely valuable. I have yet to see an MMORPG where mobs drop tons of coin. I'm not saying it never happened in EQ but it took quite a bit of looting to get to the stage of being immobile from coin. Banks don't serve much of a purpose without coin and item weight other than being extra storage. And honestly at that point why not just eliminate the bank concept entirely and have larger inventories?
I trierd to explain the same thing earlier about the chances of having a boatload of cash on you from combat, especially at lower levels, but got told that I was wrong.... Apparently some pleople managed to amass large sums of money from grouping at low levels and were able to level to max level in EQ in a weel. Although I never saw either thing happen, short of twinking and power-levelling, and I played EQ up to PoP before I finally quit.
It's really not that hard you can be in vanilla EQ and farm in guk and without looting anything but coin could easily become encumbered with coin within 2 hours quite easily, without looting any anything else. and the walk is real if your kos to the trolls and ogres, you would have to walk to freeport and being encumbered could literally take you 40 minutes for you to get there and back. and yes we will more than likely level quite fast Kalok compared to being stuck in 1999, like i said he know how to play the game better and only get better, just like we will be better players a year from now, so thinking that people aren't going to speed rush to max level. there is only so much you can do to stop us from leveling fast, but for as long as we keep on killing mobs we will keep on getting experience which btw = levels
If a person wants to drop a good group in a lvl 30+ dungon Guk, where the mobs are dropping Plat, walk 40min to keep from loosing 2000 copper that they could have dropped, we'll that's a choice.
Some of you are blowing the reality of the horrors of coin weight WAY out of proportion. It required several THOUSAND coins to encumber a player.
oneADseven said:After reading through a bunch of these posts, I can say that I do appreciate the idea of coin weight a bit more than I did originally. The idea of "coin-runners" making a business out of running coins for other players and exchanging currencies sounds appealing.
I smiled when I did read that sentence , then In my mind a scenario unfolded:
~ Np friend lemme run this 5 plat worth of copper for you ! ...reputation hit inc ... Log to main account.
Stuff like this sure would need a warranty , and to me that it is for crafting or coin errand , commisionned type action kill it for me. When it did occur that I had stuff crafted from my raw materials (cause I am lazy and dont like to spend time crafting myself) I enjoyed the risk I was taking. Ok Mr Armorer here are the 15 Titanium cluster /hand over mats "This ass better not gate right after" while i'd laugh crossing my fingers !
-Personnal preference i guess-
~World is a Cruel place, But I love it that way~
Rendall
Lol, actually how Viz did it was to buy their copper for Plat for half value.... when they got to 2000 copper he would buy it from them for 1 platnum.... then he would make the run back to town and exchange it for 2 plat.(if I have me exchange rates correct)
But risk is good too.
Makes me think maybe a few NPC's at some lonly Inn's out in the world that would play you a game of double or nothing, black jack, or Roulette for your copper.... and pay out in platnum if you win (obviously using the copper, silver, gold, plat system for reference... no idea what pantheon will use)
Considering Pantheon is going to feature automatic coin changing from one denomination to another, I don't believe they are putting much care into coin weight.
Just another quality of life thing that takes away a roleplaying element. Kinda sad.
bigdogchris said:Considering Pantheon is going to feature automatic coin changing from one denomination to another, I don't believe they are putting much care into coin weight.
Just another quality of life thing that takes away a roleplaying element. Kinda sad.
Where was that announced?
Liav said:bigdogchris said:Considering Pantheon is going to feature automatic coin changing from one denomination to another, I don't believe they are putting much care into coin weight.
Just another quality of life thing that takes away a roleplaying element. Kinda sad.
Where was that announced?
I am curious about that as well /wink
bigdogchris said:Considering Pantheon is going to feature automatic coin changing from one denomination to another, I don't believe they are putting much care into coin weight.
Just another quality of life thing that takes away a roleplaying element. Kinda sad.
I'm courious as well, and yes, that would be sad. So much would be lost... a nail in the mmoRPG coffin I suppose.
Rendall said:Liav said:bigdogchris said:Considering Pantheon is going to feature automatic coin changing from one denomination to another, I don't believe they are putting much care into coin weight.
Just another quality of life thing that takes away a roleplaying element. Kinda sad.
Where was that announced?
I am curious about that as well /wink
BIG DOG, do you remember where you got this information? I also don't recall VR saying that coins could be automatically changed outside a bank.
Found this quote from Sarudan:
"Hi Abacda,
We currently have CP, SP, GP, and PP, with each being the same value you mentioned. A fifth currency could possibly be realized down the track.
Currency is automatically balanced, so if you have 90cp and collect an additional 50cp you will automatically have 1sp 40cp.
We have thought about quests like the JBoots quest, and the encumbrance the 1000GP gave. We could potentially achieve the same result by having a "Bag of Gold" item which can only be placed in a primary inventory slot, and not inside a weight reducing bag.
I hope this helps!"
Link: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/4043/money-system/view/post_id/64662
Zorkon said:
Lol, actually how Viz did it was to buy their copper for Plat for half value.... when they got to 2000 copper he would buy it from them for 1 platnum.... then he would make the run back to town and exchange it for 2 plat.(if I have me exchange rates correct)
But risk is good too.
Makes me think maybe a few NPC's at some lonly Inn's out in the world that would play you a game of double or nothing, black jack, or Roulette for your copper.... and pay out in platnum if you win (obviously using the copper, silver, gold, plat system for reference... no idea what pantheon will use)
I guess I missed that balancing from Kilsin in the oterh thread too.. there is a lot of info on the forums and (just becasue it is so much) I'm only half incluned to collect al that and list all the facts like the chronological history of the lore.
Shifting the topic a bit maybe; if PP is the highest coin (and there's nothing about gems) then weight could still be an issue later on
Also.. a mechanic to decrease the surplus and value of money in the world should be addressed. Any desire for a King Court's Casino? (EQ1 Shadow Haven)
oneADseven said:Found this quote from Sarudan:
"Hi Abacda,
We currently have CP, SP, GP, and PP, with each being the same value you mentioned. A fifth currency could possibly be realized down the track.
Currency is automatically balanced, so if you have 90cp and collect an additional 50cp you will automatically have 1sp 40cp.
We have thought about quests like the JBoots quest, and the encumbrance the 1000GP gave. We could potentially achieve the same result by having a "Bag of Gold" item which can only be placed in a primary inventory slot, and not inside a weight reducing bag.
I hope this helps!"
Link: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/4043/money-system/view/post_id/64662
If this is the path they are taking (and it's a perfectly fine path) - then - without attempting to reignite the debate, why NOT have coin weight? The problem with coin was most typically copper, and occasionally silver... because everything dropped copper, especially at low levels. If they are auto-balancing it, then you only really start having issues when you are carrying a lot of cash in coin around with you... and that seems to be a reasonable (or at least not unreasonable) issue to have to deal with.
I agree with you Wandidar. If coin will automatically convert then I think it's perfectly reasonable that coin has weight ... hell, I would even prefer that it does.