If you watch the streams there were some parts where they were looting coin and you could keep an eye on their inventory and see it was auto changing it to the next largest denomination when they hit 100 or 1,000, can't remember which.
oneADseven said:I agree with you Wandidar. If coin will automatically convert then I think it's perfectly reasonable that coin has weight ... hell, I would even prefer that it does.
If it's automatically converted then I don't understand the point of it having weight in the first place. The point I seen of it having weight was to create small threads of interaction between players.
Reason to use the bank
Bags of coin on the paths
Coin running
If it automatically converts this is all eleminated so I don't see a point in it.
Not thinking of sour grapes... just really don't see the point. Kind of like "Tits on a Boar" yes, the Boar has tits... but why? (Saying my father used to use)
Zorkon said:oneADseven said:I agree with you Wandidar. If coin will automatically convert then I think it's perfectly reasonable that coin has weight ... hell, I would even prefer that it does.
If it's automatically converted then I don't understand the point of it having weight in the first place. The point I seen of it having weight was to create small threads of interaction between players.
Reason to use the bank
Bags of coin on the paths
Coin running
If it automatically converts this is all eleminated so I don't see a point in it.
Not thinking of sour grapes... just really don't see the point. Kind of like "Tits on a Boar" yes, the Boar has tits... but why? (Saying my father used to use)
It's mitigated, not eliminated.
If 1000 copper makes you encumbered, 1000 plat would too. It would still require to you bank and to make a concious decision to lug large amounts of coin to make a purchase. You just wouldn't have to choose to destroy all your small denomination coins while in a group or deal with penalties from encumbrance. Not for a much longer period of time at any rate.
It's a great middleground IMO.
oneADseven said: Precisely, Feyshtey. It would also align with the idea of easing players into some of the old-school mechanics they might not be familiar with.
Precisely.
EQ did a lot of little things to make you feel progressively more powerful as you leveled.
- Coin weight was a big problem when you were very low level and that 2000 copper meant something to you. At a high level, several thousand copper was nothing and you'd just dump it without caring about it. The fact that you could just discard something that was so precious to you... was a small thing.
- Small / no bags meant carrying not much around at very low levels. That was mitigated by getting bigger bags as you leveled. Bigger bags didn't necessarilly mean you could carry more, because the bags had weight and all the stuff in them had weight. Then you got some weight reduction bags. The more you got, the more you could carry... it was a small thing.
- You didn't get new spells every level, but as you leveled, the visual effects of casting the same spell got bigger, more intricate, etc... it was a small thing.
There were a whole lot of little things in EQ that had absolutely nothing to do with filling the bubbles on your EXP bar, or getting a piece of gear, or killing a new mob that, while insignificant in their own right, together combined into that bigger, broader sense of "growing up" in Norrath.
Wandidar said:Precisely.
EQ did a lot of little things to make you feel progressively more powerful as you leveled.
- Coin weight was a big problem when you were very low level and that 2000 copper meant something to you. At a high level, several thousand copper was nothing and you'd just dump it without caring about it. The fact that you could just discard something that was so precious to you... was a small thing.
- Small / no bags meant carrying not much around at very low levels. That was mitigated by getting bigger bags as you leveled. Bigger bags didn't necessarilly mean you could carry more, because the bags had weight and all the stuff in them had weight. Then you got some weight reduction bags. The more you got, the more you could carry... it was a small thing.
There were a whole lot of little things in EQ that had absolutely nothing to do with filling the bubbles on your EXP bar, or getting a piece of gear, or killing a new mob that, while insignificant in their own right, together combined into that bigger, broader sense of "growing up" in Norrath.
Minor nitpick, silver/copper was fairly worthless in EQ past level 15 or so and you could easily have a full inventory of 8 slot bags by level 4 or so.
Zorkon said:If it's automatically converted then I don't understand the point of it having weight in the first place. The point I seen of it having weight was to create small threads of interaction between players.
Reason to use the bank
Bags of coin on the paths
Coin running
If it automatically converts this is all eleminated so I don't see a point in it.
Not thinking of sour grapes... just really don't see the point. Kind of like "Tits on a Boar" yes, the Boar has tits... but why? (Saying my father used to use)
Yes, exactly. You lose those elements when you take away weight and have auto changing. It's a little thing, but there are a lot of the little things that get take away from the game and you end up with something completely different than what you were expecting. Removing this seems like the focus is just on the combat and leveling rather than the other interactions. I thought Pantheon was bringing back some of that?
Iksar said:Minor nitpick, silver/copper was fairly worthless in EQ past level 15 or so and you could easily have a full inventory of 8 slot bags by level 4 or so.
I agree the 1/10 scale did not work well. I think a 1/100 or 1/1000 scale would make the lower level coins more valuble and have a longer life.
bigdogchris said:I agree the 1/10 scale did not work well. I think a 1/100 or 1/1000 scale would make the lower level coins more valuble and have a longer life.
I'm not sure there is any good way to have lower level coins hold value beyond early release at best. In EQ they may as well have had platinum as the only currency as no one ever asked for gold (though quests did) let alone silver/copper.
If the game is done in such a way that the earlier coins are a bigger focus it could work. If platinum was very rare and silver/gold were the major trade coins, making 1 platinum in Pantheon the equivalent of what would be 1000 plat in (early) EQ. That would likely take a 1/1000 scale or at least 1/100 for copper > silver> gold but gold > plat being 1/1000. Not sure what that would accomplish for the game though.
Iksar said:bigdogchris said:I agree the 1/10 scale did not work well. I think a 1/100 or 1/1000 scale would make the lower level coins more valuble and have a longer life.
I'm not sure there is any good way to have lower level coins hold value beyond early release at best. In EQ they may as well have had platinum as the only currency as no one ever asked for gold (though quests did) let alone silver/copper.
If the game is done in such a way that the earlier coins are a bigger focus it could work. If platinum was very rare and silver/gold were the major trade coins, making 1 platinum in Pantheon the equivalent of what would be 1000 plat in (early) EQ. That would likely take a 1/1000 scale or at least 1/100 for copper > silver> gold but gold > plat being 1/1000. Not sure what that would accomplish for the game though.
At release pp was a big deal in EQ. I distinctly remember the first time I actually had a pp in my inventory.... and how quickly it was gone to buy a fraction of my spells. Granted, it didn't take all that long for people to start getting to places that dropped fine steel, and then pp was the norm. But for the first, I don't know, 10-15 levels, it mattered.
Zorkon said:If it's automatically converted then I don't understand the point of it having weight in the first place. The point I seen of it having weight was to create small threads of interaction between players.
I agree. And I don't think that coins should auto-convert -- that's an optimization that doesn't make sense to me. Presumably what you loot has X gold and Y silver so it should just give you that money. If you become encumbered after looting a lot, there are options you now have: run to bank, give yourself a strength buff, buy basic supplies from merchant to use up copper coins, give money to your stronger friend, etc. All of these add more texture and variation to the game.
Zorkon said:oneADseven said:I agree with you Wandidar. If coin will automatically convert then I think it's perfectly reasonable that coin has weight ... hell, I would even prefer that it does.
If it's automatically converted then I don't understand the point of it having weight in the first place. The point I seen of it having weight was to create small threads of interaction between players.
Reason to use the bank
Bags of coin on the paths
Coin running
If it automatically converts this is all eleminated so I don't see a point in it.
Not thinking of sour grapes... just really don't see the point. Kind of like "Tits on a Boar" yes, the Boar has tits... but why? (Saying my father used to use)
You completely nailed it. It's a logical fail to have weight on coins if they auto convert. If that ends up being the case, someone either over thought it or under thought it "lol".
SuperNaught said:EQ, soon after Kunark was released. A guildmate went to the bank in FV and converted all his coin to copper. Seconds afterwards, he stepped off of a beam and fell to his death for 10k damage. Hilarious!
I could take or leave coin weight.
At release on Rallos Zek (PVP server) people would bind out in the middle of nowhere, run to the bank, load up on thousands of copper, and gate back to the middle of nowhere, then drop all the copper on the ground on a commonly used travel route. They would then hide out of eyesight and just hang out till some unsuspecting fool picked up the bag of coin and he was so encumbered he couldn't move. Then the first guy would jump out of hiding and beat the crap out of the poor sap who had no chance of escape unless he was quick whitted enough to already be in the process of dropping the coin. To add to the fun was when a third person would gank the poor sap that picked up the coin, then loot (on Rallos Zek you could loot coin from players you killed). Now the third guy was so encumbered he couldn't move. Maybe a fourth guy shows up...
Entertaining as hell.
Feyshtey said:At release on Rallos Zek (PVP server) people would bind out in the middle of nowhere, run to the bank, load up on thousands of copper, and gate back to the middle of nowhere, then drop all the copper on the ground on a commonly used travel route. They would then hide out of eyesight and just hang out till some unsuspecting fool picked up the bag of coin and he was so encumbered he couldn't move. Then the first guy would jump out of hiding and beat the crap out of the poor sap who had no chance of escape unless he was quick whitted enough to already be in the process of dropping the coin. To add to the fun was when a third person would gank the poor sap that picked up the coin, then loot (on Rallos Zek you could loot coin from players you killed). Now the third guy was so encumbered he couldn't move. Maybe a fourth guy shows up...
Entertaining as hell.
Brilliant. It was a very sad day when they made the change so players couldn't drop coins on the ground. I remember having my minor illusion turn me into a platinum piece in EC but the game bugged out and I was still able to move around, I had such a great time watching people frantically trying to pick me up only to then see a platinum piece go sliding off across the tunnel.
Even with auto convert, having weight on coin could still be important. I like the obligation of having to run to a bank to withdraw money to make a large purchase. With no coin weight whatsoever, one might as well carry 100% of their platinum on their character at all times (although the re-introduction of corpse runs could affect this). I say make the super rich be forced to bank! That said, this is a low priority issue to me and I'd be comfortable wherever VR came out on the matter.
An alternative idea mentioned above would be to introduce a super rare coin (Terminium?) The value could potentially be 1 Terminium = 10,000 platinum. Banks could not convert upwards, so 10,000 platinum could not be turned into Terminum, but banks could convert 1 Terminium into 10,000 platinum. Once converted, the Terminium could never be reclaimed. A few Terminium could drop from certain raid encounters, which guilds could use to fund raid costs or disseminate to their player base as a unique way to carry around large sums of money. The whole idea would be that Terminium is a method of enabling accomplished players to carry around large sums of money (like a precious stone) while the majority of the universe must manage coin weight.
Taliche said:Even with auto convert, having weight on coin could still be important. I like the obligation of having to run to a bank to withdraw money to make a large purchase. With no coin weight whatsoever, one might as well carry 100% of their platinum on their character at all times (although the re-introduction of corpse runs could affect this). I say make the super rich be forced to bank! That said, this is a low priority issue to me and I'd be comfortable wherever VR came out on the matter.
An alternative idea mentioned above would be to introduce a super rare coin (Terminium?) The value could potentially be 1 Terminium = 10,000 platinum. Banks could not convert upwards, so 10,000 platinum could not be turned into Terminum, but banks could convert 1 Terminium into 10,000 platinum. Once converted, the Terminium could never be reclaimed. A few Terminium could drop from certain raid encounters, which guilds could use to fund raid costs or disseminate to their player base as a unique way to carry around large sums of money. The whole idea would be that Terminium is a method of enabling accomplished players to carry around large sums of money (like a precious stone) while the majority of the universe must manage coin weight.
IMO with the conversion rate being 1000cp=1sp than making money should be a struggle, no point in making the conversion rate being that high with you could simply load up on platinum in a fast manner, in fact imo raid bosses at best drop just gp to make the pp that much more valuable. Honestly if i hit max level and i only made 15p in that time, i could be happy, but if i made 2000p not so much.
EQ had it right.
- coins had weight, just upconvert denominations to reduce weight
- banks auto-upconvert, which is a good reason to use them
- inventory and weight management is a thing, and should be
- the original J-boots was wonderful, and a story to still tell people who weren't there
redgiant said:EQ had it right.
- coins had weight, just upconvert denominations to reduce weight
- banks auto-upconvert, which is a good reason to use them
- inventory and weight management is a thing, and should be
- the original J-boots was wonderful, and a story to still tell people who weren't there
Biggest problem with coin weight and it not converting after hitting 1000 is that some race/class combo will be severely hindered by this idea,like a race that can be a warrior but doesn't have a lot fo str, they would be carrying heavy armor and than to put the coin weight on top of it they might not even make to 1000cp before it even hit 1sp so to make it to where they can the conversion helps them stay in the fight longer instead of having them go to the bank 5x more than what an ogre would, just a thought.
Hey everyone. On this topic which comes to mind, why not have a vote/poll? I like the idea of coin weight (espeically on a role playing server). Of course it would be very convenient if we do not have any coin weight. Hopefully the pre alphas folks will shed some light on it soon. To give an idea of how heavy a pouch of coins are in real life, go to bank get 25 dollars worth of 50 cent coins, put it in a pouch/small bag. Carry that with you for 10 hours (also you can tell folks you are "working out" on weights, toning your muscle.
Now back to game mechanics. During dungeons, exploring, out in wilderness one would find coins from mobs/npc and quest reward. Your coins would automatically convert, once you reached 100 copper or 1000 copper. You now have 1 silver. When you get 100 or 1000 silver it be 1 gold, etc etc to 1 platinum (if this is the currency that will be used). However when you start accumulating plat, reaching 100 or 1000 plat, its going to weigh you down, no more auto converting. Since its not a survial game where you need to eat, drink, breath air, get warmed up, find somewhere to cool down, etc you wont be going back to town often, but you do eventuallyl. Orcs or gnolls, etc dropping copper here and there, eventually you get enough silver, eventually you get some gold.
Coin weight, it would be nice if they made the conversion automatic from copper to silver to gold to platnium while out adventuring/questing/exploring. That would cut down on coin weight, however, when it comes to platnium, the coin weight will starting showing. That in a nutshell would be ideal (for some). For others no coin weight is great, because it is very convenient, practical.
Coin weight? Yes.
As much as I like some gritty realism in my high fantasy, I vote no to coin weight.
Coins in game aren't anything like reality. Coins were pretty rare in the medieval situation that high fantasy is loosely 'based on', so they 'feel like' a good idea, but medieval people didn't kill 500 enemies per day and loot their valuables.
I like the idea of an alternate default drop like "scraps". Dead foes drop them and they can be exchanged for repairs and maybe faction and NPC crafted items, but are not transferable between characters, thought can be exchanged for currency. Scraps would be weightless. Currency/coins would be more rare and would not need to be weightless.
It's complex, I suppose, but overall I'm a "no". It seems like a sensible idea, but it's really not.
Yeah I stand by my original "I hate weighted coin." Now, i guess if we had to do it, i would like it to be scaled downward from the punishment of EQ and perhaps have magic coin purses you can craft or buy that have % weight reduction only for your coins.
Also, on a complete aside...at what point did the grotesquely grammatically incorrect "fail" become a substitute for "failure." Things are not a "fail". They are failures, or a person fails. You don't have a fail.
I'm okay with coin weight.
Also, I like that copper and silver can become and nuissance if you're out in the field for a long time and don't want to go to the bank. Often times people will just trash it. Now, think about how much copper and silver will be tossed out by players over the course of a year or two... or three. That's a whole lot of money that disappears from the economy, which IMO is a very good thing.
As someone mentioned, some players might turn this into a business venture, offering currency exchanges for players in the field.
antonius said:Also, on a complete aside...at what point did the grotesquely grammatically incorrect "fail" become a substitute for "failure." Things are not a "fail". They are failures, or a person fails. You don't have a fail.It's about how language evolves my friend, or more accurately, how slang develops. As with most things involving language it's difficult to determine actual origins, but 'fail' as a slang term for 'an event that has failed' or 'that was a suboptimal performance' seems to originate from a meme spurred by the 1998 Japanese game Blazing Star, which was poorly translated and had a game-over screen that read, 'You fail it!'
From there, it proliferated on the web and started to be commonplace around 2004, peaking in usage around 2008. It's still fairly common slang nowadays. It's hardly the most questionable thing this generation has done to the English language.
On coin weight: I would prefer it if it did have weight, myself, as managing coin back in the days of Everquest helped my immersion. That being said, I also plan on playing an Ogre Druid, so making encumbrance a larger deal would give me an advantage over others, so maybe take my opinion with a grain of salt.