If there was a vote I would ask for coins to have weight and for coins to not be auto-upconverted unless at a bank.
Was there a time or twelve I did not like having to worry about weight? Absolutly. There where also times I wish I did not have to wait for a port from a friendly druid either or to go back to get my corspe after dying at the end of a dungeon crawl. Just because there is a downside does not mean we should say no to the idea. After all saying no to all the non-fun elements in MMO's has lead us to the games we have now (action based, no downtime, instanced, etc).
Having the small (and sometimes big) details adds experiences to the game. Some times they are good others bad. Everygame I played after EQ my main concern was how large of bags could I get because weight never felt like something I had to worry about. Even in EQ2 I would use strong boxes (made for bank storage) instead of back-packs because the extra weight of the strongbox (100lbs vs 1lb) was worth it to get more storage space while I hunted in a party.
Been playing P99 more and more lately. Just yesterday, I logged into my Paladin who was parked right inside Unrest. Was halfway done typing, "/ooc 23 Paladin LFG" when I remembered how overweight I was. Had a SoW, but knew the moment it left, I'd be bogged down considerably and unable to flee to safety in the event of a train or a bad pull. Checked my bags, realized much of the weight was from coin. The copper I could just destroy, but the silver and gold I had was still enough to keep me pretty overweight, not to mention the loot in my bags (the dangers of choosing a weak a$$ high elf).
Deleted my OOC, left Unrest, and made the trek to Felwithe. Coulda gone to Kaladim, but for some reason, I always got lost in Butcherblock. Wasn't necessarily in any kind of hurry, either way.
SoW ran out, halfway. Druid hailed me not long after and passed me a SoW. I thanked him, and he dropped a levi and a couple other buffs on me. Thanked him again. He asked where I was headed, and told him of my woes. Long story short, we ended up back in Unrest 15 minutes later, grouped and going on a glorious killing spree.
Coin weight is a pain in the a$$, but it can result in two things. Forced downtime, which results in more chances for social interactions. I got a new friend on the ol' buddy list last night, just because silver and gold coins were weighing me down.
Check my box as pro coin weight.
Yeah if you are goign to give them weight, don't halfass it. No auto up convert unless at bank, etc. Just i mean, be reasonable. I can live with having to throw some out periodically but it felt like in EQ i was always being nagged by coin destruction. Maybe have a toggle you can check "Do not pick up coins less than Plat/Gold/Silver".
I look at coin weight/auto changing like requiring food and water. Sure, you could remove them and say it's a "quality of life" improvement, but is it really? This is a roleplaying game. It would be like saying a "quality of life" improvement in an first person shooter is giving you unlimited ammo. Sure it lets you focus more on the core gameplay but with roleplaying there really is no core gameplay. Roleplaying is a collection of small things that add up to a unique gameplay experience where you have to think about things that no other game ask you to think about. Sure there is micro management of certain thing but that's what the game is about.
I really think this game would be losing something if they start making "QoL" improvements to the RPG genre. You take away all the small pieces and you're just left with a bare bones RPG no better than a hack and slash online Diablo clone that just takes longer to kill enemies.
bigdogchris said:I look at coin weight/auto changing like requireing food and water. Sure, you could remove them and say it's a "quality of life" improvement, but is it really? This is a roleplaying game. It would be like saying a "qaulity of life" improvement in an first person shooter is giving you unlimited ammo. Sure it lets you focus more on the core gameplay but with roleplaying there really is no core gameplay. Roleplaying is a collection of small things that add up to a unique gameplay experience where you have to think about things that no other game ask you to think about. Sure there is micro management of certain thing but that's what the game is about.
Kalok said:Liav said:Just because EQ did it does not making it good, or worth repeating.
Let's consider what coin weight will add to Pantheon:
1. Excessive inventory/weight micromanagement.
2. You might troll a new player once or twice in the 10+ years you'll probably be playing the game.
What else? It doesn't add challenge to the game, it's just annoying.
Let me guess, you want to game to level you while you sleep too..... By your logic, neither cold, heat, nor hunger should encumer you either.... Except that they have said that they will. If you wwant a game that is trivial to play, there's always WoW. Inveentory management is part of the game. They've already said that you are going to need to have situational gear with you. Welcome to inventory management 101.
The POINT of coins having weight isn't to troll people. It was just a fun, anecdotal, thing to do. The POINT of coins having weight is to FORCE inventory management. You should not be able to carry unlimited everything on you at all times.
Here we go.... I knew it was a matter of time before one of these guys showed up. A classic (yet unneeded) response that because somebody suggested something contrary to their opinion they have to reply with an extreme assumption that they must also want the game to auto-play for them. Please check your immaturity at the door before posting in the forums where adults are trying to have a civil discussion about game features.
Not everyone enjoys the 'role playing' of having to have to walk to a bank or vendor every 100 snake kills because they inexplicable dropped coins as loot.
Coins made sense in the days IRL people didn't carry many. In a game where they are used as default 'loot' it's neither immersive nor interesting. In a game where eventually things will cost thousands of coins, it's not 'fun' to have to work out the logistics of making payments because the payment can't actually be carried.
I'm sure there are better ways of encouraging people to visit a bank or interact with other characters.
Not to mention the inequality that all characters will have to use coins, but some (high strength classes or movement buff casters) will not be hindered at all.
EQ wasn't perfect. Things could be improved. Not every potential improvement idea is a lazy modern convenience that could destroy RPGs and must be quashed.
disposalist said:Not everyone enjoys the 'role playing' of having to have to walk to a bank or vendor every 100 snake kills because they inexplicable dropped coins as loot.
Not everybody enjoys dieing.
Not everybody enjoys traveling.
Not everybody enjoys crafting.
I could go on and oh... based on your reasoning are you suggesting we remove all these as well?
Unlike Dieing and Traveling, a player would not have to walk to the bank or vendor every 100 snakes... he could simply drop the coin.
Why not compromise and give coin weight but make it so light that acquiring enough of it to encumber you while you are fighting or exploring isnt an issue. Nobody wants coin to break character mobility, but if you really want to give someone a million copper as a joke, then so be it.
Xbachs said:Why not compromise and give coin weight but make it so light that acquiring enough of it to encumber you while you are fighting or exploring isnt an issue. Nobody wants coin to break character mobility, but if you really want to give someone a million copper as a joke, then so be it.
Lol YES I do want it to "break character mobility".
As myself and others have stated several times throughout the thread. There is a lot of player generated content and interaction to be gained by coin breaking character mobility.
And I'll add to the list from another thread about ways to create money sinks to aid the economy, if coin broke character mobility players would destroy some removing it from the economy (better than taxes)
Zorkon said:disposalist said:Not everyone enjoys the 'role playing' of having to have to walk to a bank or vendor every 100 snake kills because they inexplicable dropped coins as loot.
Not everybody enjoys dieing.
Not everybody enjoys traveling.
Not everybody enjoys crafting.
I could go on and oh... based on your reasoning are you suggesting we remove all these as well?
Unlike Dieing and Traveling, a player would not have to walk to the bank or vendor every 100 snakes... he could simply drop the coin.
Lol. Nice hyperbole. By *your* logic we should keep everything from EQ because people liked EQ.
And "simply drop the coin"? Yeah. If you don't like being encumboured, just don't loot! Solved.
Coin needs to have weight just so we can encumber monks by typing /split in the middle of a pull.
I could go either way on this and will be happy. EQ coin encumbrance meant that players found creative ways to both work around and, in some cases, turn it to their benefit.
For large currency transfers, maybe we need a "bank draft"? You go to the bank and where the teller to gives you a certified parchment which you can put in a trade window in place of coin. This isn't lore-breaking. I believe this is how the Medicis ran their medieval banking system.
As a Canadian, I'm used to living with coin encumbrance. Our smallest paper bill is $5. When I lived in the US, I'd reach in my pocket and maybe have enough coin to buy a cup of coffee. Now that I'm back in Canada, my pocket change will pay for dinner.
One issue with having weight in game is as you level the weight limit becomes gradually trivial (Strength buffs from players, gear, etc) not to mention weight reduction bags.
One way to help alleviate the problem is to have your weight capacity tied to your "Base/Naked" stats (by this I mean no buffs, no gear, nada). It also becomes easier to balance. Instead of a giant berserker carrying 10 tons vs a Gnome Wizard carrying 100lbs, we could balance the stats so it would be closer to 500 vs 200 (still more; however, not to the point of weight is pointless for 1 race/class and a near death sentance for another).
Or they could tie weight capacity to the race & class:
Base 100 lbs
Ogre: +10 lbs
Gnome: -5 lbs
Human: 0 lbs
Classes:
Warrior: +20 lbs (+5 per level)
Wizard: +0 lbs (+1 per level)
This way the devs could balance the weight sytem without the statflation blowing the limits to unheard of numbers (Woot +500 Str ring, no encumberance for me!). And for the most part people will have a much closer weight limit then if the weight limit was tied to only 1 stat (Strength).
disposalist said:not hyperbole at all. Simply my opinion that you appeantly dont share. And I said nothing about keeping everything from EQ, just the things that created memories and promoted interaction between players.Zorkon said:disposalist said:Not everyone enjoys the 'role playing' of having to have to walk to a bank or vendor every 100 snake kills because they inexplicable dropped coins as loot.
Not everybody enjoys dieing.
Not everybody enjoys traveling.
Not everybody enjoys crafting.
I could go on and oh... based on your reasoning are you suggesting we remove all these as well?
Unlike Dieing and Traveling, a player would not have to walk to the bank or vendor every 100 snakes... he could simply drop the coin.
Lol. Nice hyperbole. By *your* logic we should keep everything from EQ because people liked EQ.
And "simply drop the coin"? Yeah. If you don't like being encumboured, just don't loot! Solved.
"Just don't loot" I agree, that's another good way of handling it
Watemper said:I am pro weight, but I don't like limited bank for some reason lol. I never knew why banks were always limited in space. Would be cool if you could have a different bank in each location of a bank. That would make the game more interesting lol.
I thought they said Pantheon is going to have local banks, not global banks.
bigdogchris said:Watemper said:I am pro weight, but I don't like limited bank for some reason lol. I never knew why banks were always limited in space. Would be cool if you could have a different bank in each location of a bank. That would make the game more interesting lol.
I thought they said Pantheon is going to have local banks, not global banks.
Ahh, now that you mention it I think I heard that somewhere also. I hope they have a shared bank for your characters also.
I generally dislike micromanaging inventory in a MMO - if I want to play a strategy game there are plenty out there. I prefer focusing on exploring, combat, roleplaying and the like rather than looking at dozens of spreadsheets dealing with how many arrows I can carry of what different types, how much food I can carry to avoid starving to death 10 feet from the exit (reference to the old series of Rogue/Omega/Larn games that some of us still remember fondly), whether it is more profitable to loot a nice looking shield (that may be cursed since it hasn't been identified yet) to picking up 20 copper pieces etc.
But it occurs to me that perhaps 20+ years of increasingly simple MMOs have destroyed my perspective. In a game where a primary objective is to level slowly, progress slowly, get a REAL feel for the areas and cultures one is immersed with some of this micromanagement (whether coins with weight combined with encumbrance limits or some of the many other options) would add enough "realism" to be worth the annoyance.
No my arithmatic isn't off - when I say 20+ I am thinking of some of the MUDs as MMOs even though many would argue that the first TRUE MMO came in 1999.
Sometimes it seems there is absolutely nothing anyone could propose about this game that wouldn't be the subject of an intense 8 page debate with no resolution to be seen, but maybe that's good...
How much weight are we talking about here, anyways? Right now, 1 kg of Gold is worth US $42,380.79, and I would suspect the economy of Terminus might likely follow a heavy metal standard and that Gold would likely set the high value element spot as it would be (probably) as difficult to find as it is here, though who really knows?
Let's say the Terminus gold market is equivalent to our own, which is being hugely generous to such a new society, I think I'd be pretty well off with 3-4 kg of gold in my pocket, probably able to buy whatever I wanted
If it is really all that potentially game-breaking whether or not the weight of your pocket change is accounted for in your total carry weight, just how crazy is it that you can carry around entire sets of full plate armor and spare weapons in a bag nobody can see?
Sure, EQ and other games had coin weight and others did not and sure, maybe that affected things somehow... but this is not those games and it does not have to share every little detail of anything else to be fun, successful or playable
This seems much less an argument about realism than it does about people wanting Pantheon to be a clone of something else
Preechr said:If it is really all that potentially game-breaking whether or not the weight of your pocket change is accounted for in your total carry weight, just how crazy is it that you can carry around entire sets of full plate armor and spare weapons in a bag nobody can see?
Actually, I was referring to the SIZE of the bag (that nobody ever sees) that allows you to carry around many very large pieces of equipment
I don't see how coins not having (what amounts to unrealistically) excessive weight is more game breaking than excess inventory taking up no space at all