There HAS to be content for core gamers that differs from casual players. I think that is what inspires people to follow the carrot. As long as their is one group and two group bosses so that the semi casual player( which will be vital to the subscription base) can attain some decent Legendary gear it will even out. Most of the core EQ1 players have kids or full jobs now. I doubt many of them will be able to put in the time that they used to but many will be called back for the experience and even team up with old buddies and drink scotch/ skype when the kids go down. I'm sure they wont expect to be Fabled out ever. Your gear should match your hours in with the ability to get some nice pieces with effort. Are Fabled Pieces and rare drops going to be bound to the toon or open to trade? Some great trading in the tunnel back in the day!
I just hope they come out with a design that will prevent the bigger guilds from camping raid targets like a guild shedule that is strongly enforced bby GM's or something so if they kill a target befre it was there turn within a certain variance of i'd say at least a 6 hour window for the proper guild to kill the target and if it isn't than it becomes a free for all, but if a guild kill the raid target before the variance is over or simply doesn't wait they get punished either by losing 1 or 2 of their own raid targets and they become free for all once it spawns cept for the guild being punished or something to this effect that why there is still a chance for guilds to kill him out of rotation, bbut also gives the smaller guilds a chance to have there spot to kill it themselves if it is their turn to do so.
Riahuf22 said:I just hope they come out with a design that will prevent the bigger guilds from camping raid targets like a guild shedule that is strongly enforced bby GM's or something so if they kill a target befre it was there turn within a certain variance of i'd say at least a 6 hour window for the proper guild to kill the target and if it isn't than it becomes a free for all, but if a guild kill the raid target before the variance is over or simply doesn't wait they get punished either by losing 1 or 2 of their own raid targets and they become free for all once it spawns cept for the guild being punished or something to this effect that why there is still a chance for guilds to kill him out of rotation, bbut also gives the smaller guilds a chance to have there spot to kill it themselves if it is their turn to do so.
This is without a doubt the dumbest thing Pantheon could do. I would quit and so wouldnt most hard core raiders. It isnt and should never be the GM job to set raid access. You arent promised a raid target just because you want to kill one. If a smaller guild can;t get a turn to pull it or kill it then thats just the way the cookie crumbles. No one is promised or deserves anything in the game.
Kalgore said:This is without a doubt the dumbest thing Pantheon could do. I would quit and so wouldnt most hard core raiders. It isnt and should never be the GM job to set raid access. You arent promised a raid target just because you want to kill one. If a smaller guild can;t get a turn to pull it or kill it then thats just the way the cookie crumbles. No one is promised or deserves anything in the game.
Your shallow thinking will plumit this game into the Free-to-play world faster than you think. I have been trying to not comment lately in this thread, but when I read this stuff it freaks me out. How anyone thinks that a game can be successful, in this day and age, with this type of thinking is not seeing it through. Nobody has the time to camp bossess for 12 hours anymore.
Anyhow, feel free to tell me how wrong I am. Feel free to tell me how awesome and successful EQ1 and Vanguard are. then please explain why one is shut down and the other is a F2P game. I am sorry, but I will repeat it again, in VR thinks that this game will survive being EQ1 with better graphics, then the game will fail. And remember, these angel investors want their money back. They need to stop thinking in the past and realize that time has passed.
Anticlergy said:Kalgore said:This is without a doubt the dumbest thing Pantheon could do. I would quit and so wouldnt most hard core raiders. It isnt and should never be the GM job to set raid access. You arent promised a raid target just because you want to kill one. If a smaller guild can;t get a turn to pull it or kill it then thats just the way the cookie crumbles. No one is promised or deserves anything in the game.
Your shallow thinking will plumit this game into the Free-to-play world faster than you think. I have been trying to not comment lately in this thread, but when I read this stuff it freaks me out. How anyone thinks that a game can be successful, in this day and age, with this type of thinking is not seeing it through. Nobody has the time to camp bossess for 12 hours anymore.
Anyhow, feel free to tell me how wrong I am. Feel free to tell me how awesome and successful EQ1 and Vanguard are. then please explain why one is shut down and the other is a F2P game. I am sorry, but I will repeat it again, in VR thinks that this game will survive being EQ1 with better graphics, then the game will fail. And remember, these angel investors want their money back. They need to stop thinking in the past and realize that time has passed.
I am far from a person that wants EQ1 with better graphics. I have made several threads about people thinking that way and for shutting down idea's because it wasnt inEQ1 ETC ETC
That being said this is a stupid idead for several reason
1: Not the GM job to police raiders
2: Allowing GM to do this opens the door for massive abuse. (SOE EQ2 DEV scandel)
3: Allowing a system like that is agaisnt the core tenets.
4: Only a carebear thinks that every guild deserves to raid. Sad fact is they do not. They arent entitled to have a chance to pull it. They arent entitled to have the gear. They arent entitled to even see the mob. The game is being made to reward Risk to reward teamwork and reward smart players. It isnt being made to smash your face into the keyboard and win a prize.
As for EQ1 it still has a fanbase is still being played on offical servers and P99 not to shabby for a game that is 18 years old.
Kalgore said:Anticlergy said:Kalgore said:This is without a doubt the dumbest thing Pantheon could do. I would quit and so wouldnt most hard core raiders. It isnt and should never be the GM job to set raid access. You arent promised a raid target just because you want to kill one. If a smaller guild can;t get a turn to pull it or kill it then thats just the way the cookie crumbles. No one is promised or deserves anything in the game.
Your shallow thinking will plumit this game into the Free-to-play world faster than you think. I have been trying to not comment lately in this thread, but when I read this stuff it freaks me out. How anyone thinks that a game can be successful, in this day and age, with this type of thinking is not seeing it through. Nobody has the time to camp bossess for 12 hours anymore.
Anyhow, feel free to tell me how wrong I am. Feel free to tell me how awesome and successful EQ1 and Vanguard are. then please explain why one is shut down and the other is a F2P game. I am sorry, but I will repeat it again, in VR thinks that this game will survive being EQ1 with better graphics, then the game will fail. And remember, these angel investors want their money back. They need to stop thinking in the past and realize that time has passed.
I am far from a person that wants EQ1 with better graphics. I have made several threads about people thinking that way and for shutting down idea's because it wasnt inEQ1 ETC ETC
That being said this is a stupid idead for several reason
1: Not the GM job to police raiders
2: Allowing GM to do this opens the door for massive abuse. (SOE EQ2 DEV scandel)
3: Allowing a system like that is agaisnt the core tenets.
4: Only a carebear thinks that every guild deserves to raid. Sad fact is they do not. They arent entitled to have a chance to pull it. They arent entitled to have the gear. They arent entitled to even see the mob. The game is being made to reward Risk to reward teamwork and reward smart players. It isnt being made to smash your face into the keyboard and win a prize.
As for EQ1 it still has a fanbase is still being played on offical servers and P99 not to shabby for a game that is 18 years old.
Huh, okay how about giving out an idea instead of just bashing someone else's people are mainly just saying instancing or non- instancing and i made a hybrid of the 2 to my best way of thinking. So how about instead of insulting me with nonsense and merely made it to where i don't care what you say anymore give something that is helpful or give a twist to something i said above. anything other than insulting me on my idea of trying to be helpful. Look it looks like 50% want instancing the other 50% want Non- instancing and the game wants to pleae both parties as much as the other. So non-instance isnt an answer just like instancing isn't.
Riahuf22 said:Kalgore said:Anticlergy said:Kalgore said:This is without a doubt the dumbest thing Pantheon could do. I would quit and so wouldnt most hard core raiders. It isnt and should never be the GM job to set raid access. You arent promised a raid target just because you want to kill one. If a smaller guild can;t get a turn to pull it or kill it then thats just the way the cookie crumbles. No one is promised or deserves anything in the game.
Your shallow thinking will plumit this game into the Free-to-play world faster than you think. I have been trying to not comment lately in this thread, but when I read this stuff it freaks me out. How anyone thinks that a game can be successful, in this day and age, with this type of thinking is not seeing it through. Nobody has the time to camp bossess for 12 hours anymore.
Anyhow, feel free to tell me how wrong I am. Feel free to tell me how awesome and successful EQ1 and Vanguard are. then please explain why one is shut down and the other is a F2P game. I am sorry, but I will repeat it again, in VR thinks that this game will survive being EQ1 with better graphics, then the game will fail. And remember, these angel investors want their money back. They need to stop thinking in the past and realize that time has passed.
I am far from a person that wants EQ1 with better graphics. I have made several threads about people thinking that way and for shutting down idea's because it wasnt inEQ1 ETC ETC
That being said this is a stupid idead for several reason
1: Not the GM job to police raiders
2: Allowing GM to do this opens the door for massive abuse. (SOE EQ2 DEV scandel)
3: Allowing a system like that is agaisnt the core tenets.
4: Only a carebear thinks that every guild deserves to raid. Sad fact is they do not. They arent entitled to have a chance to pull it. They arent entitled to have the gear. They arent entitled to even see the mob. The game is being made to reward Risk to reward teamwork and reward smart players. It isnt being made to smash your face into the keyboard and win a prize.
As for EQ1 it still has a fanbase is still being played on offical servers and P99 not to shabby for a game that is 18 years old.
Huh, okay how about giving out an idea instead of just bashing someone else's people are mainly just saying instancing or non- instancing and i made a hybrid of the 2 to my best way of thinking. So how about instead of insulting me with nonsense and merely made it to where i don't care what you say anymore give something that is helpful or give a twist to something i said above. anything other than insulting me on my idea of trying to be helpful. Look it looks like 50% want instancing the other 50% want Non- instancing and the game wants to pleae both parties as much as the other. So non-instance isnt an answer just like instancing isn't.
The search feature is an amazing tool. My stance is well documented on several other threads. But because you cant seem to use that I will state it again. I beleive there should be some instance raiding that holds lower teired raid mobs. A great place for starter guilds to start earning gear, lockout timers so they cant farm it every night. I think the best gear in the game should come from UBER hard Contested Epics. with a system like Vanguard once the mob is killed that guild can no longer attack it for X number of days but other guilds can. I do beleive that those contested mobs should be part spoawn based and part item spawn. Some of the best mobs should only spawn when you get the right items and those items come from lower raid zones.
Kalgore said:Riahuf22 said:Kalgore said:Anticlergy said:Kalgore said:This is without a doubt the dumbest thing Pantheon could do. I would quit and so wouldnt most hard core raiders. It isnt and should never be the GM job to set raid access. You arent promised a raid target just because you want to kill one. If a smaller guild can;t get a turn to pull it or kill it then thats just the way the cookie crumbles. No one is promised or deserves anything in the game.
Your shallow thinking will plumit this game into the Free-to-play world faster than you think. I have been trying to not comment lately in this thread, but when I read this stuff it freaks me out. How anyone thinks that a game can be successful, in this day and age, with this type of thinking is not seeing it through. Nobody has the time to camp bossess for 12 hours anymore.
Anyhow, feel free to tell me how wrong I am. Feel free to tell me how awesome and successful EQ1 and Vanguard are. then please explain why one is shut down and the other is a F2P game. I am sorry, but I will repeat it again, in VR thinks that this game will survive being EQ1 with better graphics, then the game will fail. And remember, these angel investors want their money back. They need to stop thinking in the past and realize that time has passed.
I am far from a person that wants EQ1 with better graphics. I have made several threads about people thinking that way and for shutting down idea's because it wasnt inEQ1 ETC ETC
That being said this is a stupid idead for several reason
1: Not the GM job to police raiders
2: Allowing GM to do this opens the door for massive abuse. (SOE EQ2 DEV scandel)
3: Allowing a system like that is agaisnt the core tenets.
4: Only a carebear thinks that every guild deserves to raid. Sad fact is they do not. They arent entitled to have a chance to pull it. They arent entitled to have the gear. They arent entitled to even see the mob. The game is being made to reward Risk to reward teamwork and reward smart players. It isnt being made to smash your face into the keyboard and win a prize.
As for EQ1 it still has a fanbase is still being played on offical servers and P99 not to shabby for a game that is 18 years old.
Huh, okay how about giving out an idea instead of just bashing someone else's people are mainly just saying instancing or non- instancing and i made a hybrid of the 2 to my best way of thinking. So how about instead of insulting me with nonsense and merely made it to where i don't care what you say anymore give something that is helpful or give a twist to something i said above. anything other than insulting me on my idea of trying to be helpful. Look it looks like 50% want instancing the other 50% want Non- instancing and the game wants to pleae both parties as much as the other. So non-instance isnt an answer just like instancing isn't.
The search feature is an amazing tool. My stance is well documented on several other threads. But because you cant seem to use that I will state it again. I beleive there should be some instance raiding that holds lower teired raid mobs. A great place for starter guilds to start earning gear, lockout timers so they cant farm it every night. I think the best gear in the game should come from UBER hard Contested Epics. with a system like Vanguard once the mob is killed that guild can no longer attack it for X number of days but other guilds can. I do beleive that those contested mobs should be part spoawn based and part item spawn. Some of the best mobs should only spawn when you get the right items and those items come from lower raid zones.
Alright, I'm sry i didn't read all of the threads Tallking about raiding but you do realize that there are at least 3 of them and i believe all of them have at least 5 pages to them. So if you did mention it i probably just didn't take the 4 hours carefully reading what people were saying, in every single post on the subject. But nonetheless that gave you no right to completely bash my idea and honestly that whole thing i said didn't sound much diffeent than my idea" Once the mob is killed that guild can no longer attack it for X number of days but other guilds can." where i said once it died it gave another guild a shot to kill it with a 6 hour window. Only big difference is that there is no order in which he is killed in in your idea but other than that not much of one at all if the guild work together accordingly, which they probably would to ease the tension between guilds and get guaranteed raid targets on raid night instead of wondering if there opposing guild killed it before they did. Let's just be smart here.
Ahh the neverending quest to feel special by not letting other people get mobs. Some should have lockouts some shouldn't. That makes it to where the beards can get their mobs and feel cool and to where one guild doesn't dominate every encounter. The lockout mobs should have loot on a very similar tier to the non lockout mobs. Like 90 or 95% of the stats. And that is to suggest no instancing... appeases those people too (which i'm one of.. instancing is weak)
kinidin said:Ahh the neverending quest to feel special by not letting other people get mobs. Some should have lockouts some shouldn't. That makes it to where the beards can get their mobs and feel cool and to where one guild doesn't dominate every encounter. The lockout mobs should have loot on a very similar tier to the non lockout mobs. Like 90 or 95% of the stats. And that is to suggest no instancing... appeases those people too (which i'm one of.. instancing is weak)
This is a fun idea, gives the smaller guilds something to do while giving the bigger ones the chance to prove there dominance over the others, but makes both the smaller and bigger ones powerful enough to have fun playing the game. and the smaller guilds could still rival the bigger ones if by chance they have a chance to kill an open world target. This is honestly something i could work with and thank you for coming up with this idea as im sure it will give both the casual and hardcore players something to look forward too.
Jamie said:To be honest with you if people were enjoying the instanced raiding crap (that most of us have beat to death six times over already) we probably wouldn't be in this forum anyway. We would be playing one of the crappy games that are out now.
I liked the instance raid content. Can you not conceive that maybe some of us are supporting this game for different reasons than you?
kefka said: Raid content should be based on the raid difficulty, not on who race to tag the boss faster. I'd rather have raids that are insanely hard so only a few good hardcore player will be able to defeat it than not being able to take a shot at the boss because another guild got the respawn on a timer.
Finally. Someone gets it. I love you.
So many people in this thread think that they are awesome because they got to a boss first. However, they fail to realize that it doesn't make you a good player because you can camp mobs. It also doesn't make your guild awesome because you have the most amount of people with no life. It makes you awesome when you actually down challenging content. It makes me really sad to see people that think they are awesome because they were able to get to a mob that is a tank and spank fight.
Anticlergy said:kefka said: Raid content should be based on the raid difficulty, not on who race to tag the boss faster. I'd rather have raids that are insanely hard so only a few good hardcore player will be able to defeat it than not being able to take a shot at the boss because another guild got the respawn on a timer.Finally. Someone gets it. I love you.
So many people in this thread think that they are awesome because they got to a boss first. However, they fail to realize that it doesn't make you a good player because you can camp mobs. It also doesn't make your guild awesome because you have the most amount of people with no life. It makes you awesome when you actually down challenging content. It makes me really sad to see people that think they are awesome because they were able to get to a mob that is a tank and spank fight.
This was actually my first train of thought, i was just trying to find a happy medium for both the instanced players and the non instanced players, but i do agree with this 100% if it were to be only instanced vs non instanced. And thank you for saying this, its nice to see that people think like this, cuase what the point of having a non instanced raid where you gage it to be a fight that suppose to be challenging to lets say 24 people to do but you throw 100 at him/her.
In agreement with Kalgore on this one. The entitlement design has to stop. If your achievements aren't earned in Pantheon by not only skill, but leadership and guild coordination as well as time devotion, Pantheon will become old hat very quickly.
There should be things that everyone can likely achieve, but there also must be things that you really have to work for if they are to keep the game exciting and keep people playing. That was the main difference between EQ and games today.
To those claiming thats unfair because those of us who played EQ don't have that kind of time to devote to Pantheon - shame on you. Just because those of us with more responsibilities can't do and see everything doesn't mean we should prevent a new generation of players from attaining that level of virtual glory. It was that kind of exclusivity and competition that made EQ worth playing, and its imperative that it be incorporated into Pantheon as well.
Anyway it seems to me that the root of these ideas stem from the belief that we need to come up with some mechanics to stop dedicated and organized guilds from dominating end game content. My point is not that I do not like these ideas or that I am unwilling to try them. My point is that at the end of the day this type of thinking is a waste of time.
Jamie said:1) Should each guild have had the same rewards and game experience?2) Are there any mechanics that will slow down Guild A enough for Guild B and C to catch up and is that reasonable?3) How many times has a friend in Guild A helped a player in Guild B or C learn or do something their guild couldn't do for them or figure out on their own?4) Is it fair to demonize 10% of the population because they play harder than you?5) Would our time be better spent coming up with ideas that would be fun and unique for everyone rather then limiting and stale?If I were in guild B or C and I wanted guild A rewards I would consider what was holding me back. I would not make up more cumbersome or difficult mechanics for guild A (and one day B and C when they get there) to jump through. I feel like we should really be steering the game towards what will be fun and not necessarily what we think we need to do to stop "hardcore" guilds so that we can all have the very same experience. This type of thinking is what started the current MMO's today. These were EQ players that took the twinked alt experience and made a mainstream game out of it (WOW/EQ2). Everything else is just a clone of the same idea.People are not pledging 1k plus to play another WOW clone, that much I am absolutely sure of.
Well said. I agree with your points. The sense of entitlement is so purvasive in our society today many times we dont even notice that we are waving the flag and jumping on that band-wagon. When you break out the math I feel it is obvious who should reap the most rewards.
That being said.. how do we stop guild A from monopolizing the content so that guild B and C NEVER get a shot at it. The only answer I can think of is a lock-out (some form of artifical mechanic that does not let someone who has killed the mob in X days attack or they receive a deathtouch) or so much content that no one guild could lock it all down unless they had thousands of members.
Dullahan said:In agreement with Kalgore on this one. The entitlement design has to stop. If your achievements aren't earned in Pantheon by not only skill, but leadership and guild coordination as well as time devotion, Pantheon will become old hat very quickly.
There should be things that everyone can likely achieve, but there also must be things that you really have to work for if they are to keep the game exciting and keep people playing. That was the main difference between EQ and games today.
To those claiming thats unfair because those of us who played EQ don't have that kind of time to devote to Pantheon - shame on you. Just because those of us with more responsibilities can't do and see everything doesn't mean we should prevent a new generation of players from attaining that level of virtual glory. It was that kind of exclusivity and competition that made EQ worth playing, and its imperative that it be incorporated into Pantheon as well.
I will link a post I mad eearlier to hopefully explain my point man. Since I have responded to your posts before, let me be very, very clear so you understand. I want nothing handed to me. Period. The end. I want a hard game. Not hard because I need 300 guild members to do content, but hard because the actual encounter is hard. Again, outnumbering people, because your guild has 300 people, does not make you a good player. Getting to a mob takes no skill. Downing an extremely hard boss, with amazing mechanics does.
I truly feel, and I could be wrong of course, that you think that the guild who can camp mobs, and get to a target first, is the best. The best means skill in my opinion. It takes no skill to play all day. And, lazy game design with open world bosses that were boring tank and spank fights, such as in VG and EQ, is a sad way to design a game supposedly based on group play. But, in VR feels that group play, and challengin content is getting to a mob first, then I may have wasted my money here.
Anyhow, here is my earlier post so you get what I am saying:
"So many people in this thread think that they are awesome because they got to a boss first. However, they fail to realize that it doesn't make you a good player because you can camp mobs. It also doesn't make your guild awesome because you have the most amount of people with no life. It makes you awesome when you actually down challenging content. It makes me really sad to see people that think they are awesome because they were able to get to a mob that is a tank and spank fight"
Anticlergy said:Anyhow, here is my earlier post so you get what I am saying:
"So many people in this thread think that they are awesome because they got to a boss first. However, they fail to realize that it doesn't make you a good player because you can camp mobs. It also doesn't make your guild awesome because you have the most amount of people with no life. It makes you awesome when you actually down challenging content. It makes me really sad to see people that think they are awesome because they were able to get to a mob that is a tank and spank fight"
In 99/2000 when I was playing hardcore on my server (Veeshan) we had a few folks that functioned as spotters. When we saw a mob up we sounded the alarm and we grabbed resist gear, gathered, buffed, and engaged. The skill involved was how fast those tasks could be accomplished. My guild thought we were good at it until we saw "team ass beat" from Fires of Heaven form up and buff in under 5 minutes. They were number one on the server, not because they had more people, but because they were waaaay more efficient than most. They set a bar that if you didnt have your act together you werent going to even get a shot at that "easy tank and spank fight."
Anticlergy, you keep referring to those old fights as lazy design. What MMO has "difficult" mechanics? When dealing with an open world environment scripted mechanics that would appear in a single player RPG or FPS do not apply because the game designers cannot dictate your location/actions as they can in those types of games. Lets discuss what constitutes "difficult" to those of you who feel that when you raided in ToV or Kael or SSraeshza Temple it was easy when it was current content.
Maximis said:In 99/2000 when I was playing hardcore on my server (Veeshan) we had a few folks that functioned as spotters. When we saw a mob up we sounded the alarm and we grabbed resist gear, gathered, buffed, and engaged. The skill involved was how fast those tasks could be accomplished. My guild thought we were good at it until we saw "team ass beat" from Fires of Heaven form up and buff in under 5 minutes. They were number one on the server, not because they had more people, but because they were waaaay more efficient than most. They set a bar that if you didnt have your act together you werent going to even get a shot at that "easy tank and spank fight."
Anticlergy, you keep referring to those old fights as lazy design. What MMO has "difficult" mechanics? When dealing with an open world environment scripted mechanics that would appear in a single player RPG or FPS do not apply because the game designers cannot dictate your location/actions as they can in those types of games. Lets discuss what constitutes "difficult" to those of you who feel that when you raided in ToV or Kael or SSraeshza Temple it was easy when it was current content.
What I mean by lazy design is that it seems very difficult for me to think that an open world boss can be hard. Now, I don't mean hard because it could one-shot you, but hard in the way that it requires mechanics. For example, buffs and debuffs, running out of stuff on the ground, stacking and not stacking, dps checks, heal checks, and good tank positioning. But, with a mob that anyone can get too, it seems that this kind of coordination will not work.
Now, I am not saying that EQ raids were not hard for their time. I am sure that they were. But, I do feel that what I think is hard and what others think is hard are two different things. I have watched videos man. I have watched videos of my own guild, who were absolutely top of the food chain in EQ and in Vanguard, do nothing but stand still and tank and spank raid targets. Now, if the preperation was the hard part, then this game is not gonna be for me. I want a boss fight that you can wipe on 300+ times. Not wiping because it is a higher level than you, but wiping because the mehcanics push your team to play well.
Examples of what I feel had challenging raid mechanics would be raids in WoW, Rift, FF14 and Wildstar. Those kinds of raids took a ton of skill and coordination. Now, I get your point about things being scripted, and to an extent these kinds of raids had things that happened at certain times, but that did not take away from the difficulty. If that was the case, then everyone would be beating them. Basically, I want the challenge of a WoW mythic raid with a Pantheon flavor.
And finally, not saying that you would, but I hope people don't come in here and tell me how easy those games raids are. If people do want to go that route, please link me your battle.net accounts so I can see your raid progress. Or, just any prooof that you raid on a high level that requires a ton of skill.
Anyhow, I hope that I have explained myself. I understand people's passion for a new game like EQ, but I really am sorry to have to say that the game did not have a challenge like today's raid content. For its time, it was amazing. But, those kinds of fights will get very boring in this day and age. At least, they will get broing to me.
Riahuf22 said:kinidin said:Ahh the neverending quest to feel special by not letting other people get mobs. Some should have lockouts some shouldn't. That makes it to where the beards can get their mobs and feel cool and to where one guild doesn't dominate every encounter. The lockout mobs should have loot on a very similar tier to the non lockout mobs. Like 90 or 95% of the stats. And that is to suggest no instancing... appeases those people too (which i'm one of.. instancing is weak)
This is a fun idea, gives the smaller guilds something to do while giving the bigger ones the chance to prove there dominance over the others, but makes both the smaller and bigger ones powerful enough to have fun playing the game. and the smaller guilds could still rival the bigger ones if by chance they have a chance to kill an open world target. This is honestly something i could work with and thank you for coming up with this idea as im sure it will give both the casual and hardcore players something to look forward too.
I wasn't the first person on these boards to mention it. I like reading everyones opinions on this though. I honestly think this is the best middle ground... the poopsockers can get their stranglehold on special tier 1 encounters and can lock it down... while the general community if organized during their lockout on 'tier two mobs' can have a shot at closing the gap
And heck maybe they call that set of logic a 'normal server' and then turn off that lockout boolean on tier 2 mobs and say that's a 'hardcore server'. So if you cannot fathom the idea of a lesser being getting a chance to slay the dragon you can just play hardcore and buy a 12 pack of tubesocks and cancel your dollar shave club subscription. I'm cool with it by the way.. we've all been there. And I don't want all mobs to have the lockout it really should only be a few 'almost top mobs' which do have it.. the big badasses should be FFA.
Maximis said:When we saw a mob up we sounded the alarm and we grabbed resist gear, gathered, buffed, and engaged. The skill involved was how fast those tasks could be accomplished.
I have to say that I disagree with this as being considered a skillful task. Sure, it was tied into a fun game and was an outlet for competition that most people crave, but can this not be done in a better manner? Consider an alternative hypothetical: A checkpoint appears and requires that you grab resist gear, gather up, buff, and travel to the checkpoint to collect loot within x minutes. On its face it would require the exact same skill set that you describe, but is shallow and repetitive gameplay. That leads me to the belief that the actual fun you had was derived from some alternative source. I'm not saying you didn't have fun and I'm not saying you wouldn't have fun with this type of thing in the future, but I am arguing for a discussion to improve on the model.
Now this is all just guesswork on my part, so I can absolutely understand if you disagree, but I would speculate that the fun part of it simply came from competition* and teamwork. Now let's look at how this applies to the raiding mechanics suggested previously in the thread.
If you have ever been part of a guild pushing for world/server firsts then you know how flawed the current MMO system is. We can do better than just teamwork and racing alone and hopefully provide a satisfying outlet for the competiton crazies (not meant as a slight). Racing for content is time intensive and immediately puts in players' minds that the goal "finishing" content first, which leads to burnout and hollow/fleeting victories. I've been considering making a new thread on inter-guild competition and cooperation, but I don't want to get into that here. All I really want to say is that all proposed systems will have pros/cons and we shouldn't see one system as "the best" that other people just don't understand.
* When I refer to competition I am talking about external competition in this case (you vs. me / my guild vs. yours). I assume everyone agrees that VR should aim for difficult content that requires skill and fosters a competitive sense within oneself to play, practice, and improve, so I'm leaving that out of the discussion.
Anticlergy said:Maximis said:In 99/2000 when I was playing hardcore on my server (Veeshan) we had a few folks that functioned as spotters. When we saw a mob up we sounded the alarm and we grabbed resist gear, gathered, buffed, and engaged. The skill involved was how fast those tasks could be accomplished. My guild thought we were good at it until we saw "team ass beat" from Fires of Heaven form up and buff in under 5 minutes. They were number one on the server, not because they had more people, but because they were waaaay more efficient than most. They set a bar that if you didnt have your act together you werent going to even get a shot at that "easy tank and spank fight."
Anticlergy, you keep referring to those old fights as lazy design. What MMO has "difficult" mechanics? When dealing with an open world environment scripted mechanics that would appear in a single player RPG or FPS do not apply because the game designers cannot dictate your location/actions as they can in those types of games. Lets discuss what constitutes "difficult" to those of you who feel that when you raided in ToV or Kael or SSraeshza Temple it was easy when it was current content.
What I mean by lazy design is that it seems very difficult for me to think that an open world boss can be hard. Now, I don't mean hard because it could one-shot you, but hard in the way that it requires mechanics. For example, buffs and debuffs, running out of stuff on the ground, stacking and not stacking, dps checks, heal checks, and good tank positioning. But, with a mob that anyone can get too, it seems that this kind of coordination will not work.
Now, I am not saying that EQ raids were not hard for their time. I am sure that they were. But, I do feel that what I think is hard and what others think is hard are two different things. I have watched videos man. I have watched videos of my own guild, who were absolutely top of the food chain in EQ and in Vanguard, do nothing but stand still and tank and spank raid targets. Now, if the preperation was the hard part, then this game is not gonna be for me. I want a boss fight that you can wipe on 300+ times. Not wiping because it is a higher level than you, but wiping because the mehcanics push your team to play well.
Examples of what I feel had challenging raid mechanics would be raids in WoW, Rift, FF14 and Wildstar. Those kinds of raids took a ton of skill and coordination. Now, I get your point about things being scripted, and to an extent these kinds of raids had things that happened at certain times, but that did not take away from the difficulty. If that was the case, then everyone would be beating them. Basically, I want the challenge of a WoW mythic raid with a Pantheon flavor.
And finally, not saying that you would, but I hope people don't come in here and tell me how easy those games raids are. If people do want to go that route, please link me your battle.net accounts so I can see your raid progress. Or, just any prooof that you raid on a high level that requires a ton of skill.
Anyhow, I hope that I have explained myself. I understand people's passion for a new game like EQ, but I really am sorry to have to say that the game did not have a challenge like today's raid content. For its time, it was amazing. But, those kinds of fights will get very boring in this day and age. At least, they will get broing to me.
You are going to point to a WOW raid to make your point in hardness?? Seriously??? I can think of dozens of normal raid mobs in EQ1 and EQ2 that have better mechnics and challanging raid setups then WOW and any Vetern Raider will agree.
As for everyone else crying about smaller guilds having a shot please answer me one question.
WHY WHY do they deserve a shot?? Because they paid the prioce of the game I doubt that because otherwise they should just put all the loot in a crate you cana ccess 24/7
Is it because its fair?? Lifes not fair both virtual and RL
Is it because we want teamwork???? You have teamwork its called a guild you just choose a guild that isnt good at coordination.
In the end if your guild isnt giving you want you want you should leave and find one that does and not use the excuse but ive been in this guild for 2 years. It doesnt matter