Kalgore said:Ive done the EC tunnel as well and shouting out what you need could take hours for a real response sometimes. I shouldnt have to spend a day of my play time only to stock up.
What about rarer items should I stand there for 5 hours shooouting I need the spellbook of master taunts hoping someone has it?? Or just go to the board and find out Jimmy Bob Ray has the book for sale but he is 6 zones away.
Then don't. Make a macro that says, "/auc WTB Uber Health Potions" and smack it every time you enter a new zone. Unless it's an unusual item (which wouldnt be something you 'stock up' on), you're going to occasionally get someone to bite on it and sell you the items. If you don't wait till you're out of the item before you start trying to resupply then you wont ever go without.
Better yet, remember the names of people who seem to consistently have those items, and make a friend! That alchemist that's always selling and always has fair prices would be a significant ally, would he not? And as a core tenent of the game being community, it holds with the design and could highly beneift you in inpredictable ways, yes? Maybe no one ever sells some other weird potion because it's a pain to make. But maybe because you're a loyal customer you can provide the components to your go-to alchemist and get him to whip you up a few!
Feyshtey said:Raive said:Who is to say all of those things already do not occur with or without an AH/Bazaar. What I am saying is again, no one is stopping you or should force you into one method of participating in the game's economy. Personally I take both routes, however I simply see a much more flourishing economy if players had the option of conducting business using both methods or either/or however they so desire. Having only 1 channel I feel takes this game a step back. This, similar to travel, are areas that have to be modernized a bit with flexibility.
Actually, when an AH/Bazaar exists, many (most?) people will have everything they want to sell on their merchant mule in the AH/Bazaar, or the items will be otherwise tied up in the AH/Bazaar system. You get replies to your WTB /auc request saying "I have that. My merchant's name is XYZ. Go look him up in the Bazaar.". IF you get replies to your WTS /auc, they are often things like, "Bet I can get that in the AH for cheaper". There's no need to take advantage of that spontaneous oppurtunity to get an item because you know you can pretty much go get it any time you want, even if you have to pay slightly more and more than likely will get the item for less. So if an AH/Bazaar exists, players are in reality forced to use the AH/Bazaar in order to buy or sell more of the things you're attempting to buy or sell, unless they are rare enough that they are not commonly found in the AH/Bazaar.
Well I guess that is the beauty of captialism to some degree. Also noticed how you said it yourself many, most, not all. In EQ I used the "auction-channel" method you could say near hourly to some success. As time went on and the Bazaar was made available, I used that literally everyday after my day was done on top of my current method. I saw my sales increase tremendously as it provided a way to maintain a more solid connection with the economy even while I'm not at my PC. This obviously expanded into Auction Houses which does the same thing. Now the way you're presenting your arguement is with a AH/Bazaar present that it impedes on your opportunities to make spontaneous sale with an individual and not having to deal with possible competition from other sellars.
There's not much I can say to that. Does it make things a bit tighter when it comes to being selected as the merchant of choice? Sure I guess. However from my experiences, from EQ til now it hasn't had any negative effect on my experience on interacting with players selling goods that I feel the price isn't where I want it to be and can negotiate. To me, it simply provides QoL that some people definitely wouldn't mind.
Raive said:There's not much I can say to that. Does it make things a bit tighter when it comes to being selected as the merchant of choice? Sure I guess. However from my experiences, from EQ til now it hasn't had any negative effect on my experience on interacting with players selling goods that I feel the price isn't where I want it to be and can negotiate. To me, it simply provides QoL that some people definitely wouldn't mind.
Because of your particular playstyle and where you decide you want to invest your energies (which apparently includes gaining as much cash as can be gained with marginal effort) you might not have noted a negative impact. That does not mean that other players who choose to invest different ways were not.
Feyshtey said:Raive said:There's not much I can say to that. Does it make things a bit tighter when it comes to being selected as the merchant of choice? Sure I guess. However from my experiences, from EQ til now it hasn't had any negative effect on my experience on interacting with players selling goods that I feel the price isn't where I want it to be and can negotiate. To me, it simply provides QoL that some people definitely wouldn't mind.
Because of your particular playstyle and where you decide you want to invest your energies (which apparently includes gaining as much cash as can be gained with marginal effort) you might not have noted a negative impact. That does not mean that other players who choose to invest different ways were not.
If the option is present, kinda like the death penalty, make smarter decisions. If I wanted to maximize revenue, you better believe I will try and keep my goods out there as much as I possibly can. Not my fault if the next guy doesn't want to do that. But its whatever floats ya boat in this case. As you can tell I'm all about leaving it up to the player to decide how they want to play. The game lays down the tools and we take em and run with it. its as simple as that.
Raive said:
If the option is present, kinda like the death penalty, make smarter decisions. If I wanted to maximize revenue, you better believe I will try and keep my goods out there as much as I possibly can. Not my fault if the next guy doesn't want to do that. But its whatever floats ya boat in this case. As you can tell I'm all about leaving it up to the player to decide how they want to play. The game lays down the tools and we take em and run with it. its as simple as that.
Or it doesnt :) In this case likely providing someone else who really wanted to maximize profit to do so to a higher degree, and without an artificial system interfering in the results.
tanwedar said:Rint said:When I started off with EQ on the XEV server we didn’t sell items in the EC Tunnel, but rather everyone sold their items/wares in Gfay (no idea why, it just was the place…).
We used Faymart so that people would die trying to get to the bank/trade area, thus helping me get donations for finding bodies with the bard song ;)
OMG who trained the banker, again!?!?
fazool said:tanwedar said:Rint said:When I started off with EQ on the XEV server we didn’t sell items in the EC Tunnel, but rather everyone sold their items/wares in Gfay (no idea why, it just was the place…).
We used Faymart so that people would die trying to get to the bank/trade area, thus helping me get donations for finding bodies with the bard song ;)
OMG who trained the banker, again!?!?
LOL. I meant from people falling not training!
tanwedar said:fazool said:tanwedar said:Rint said:When I started off with EQ on the XEV server we didn’t sell items in the EC Tunnel, but rather everyone sold their items/wares in Gfay (no idea why, it just was the place…).
We used Faymart so that people would die trying to get to the bank/trade area, thus helping me get donations for finding bodies with the bard song ;)
OMG who trained the banker, again!?!?
LOL. I meant from people falling not training!
Totally off subject, but my guild used to hold random community events just for giggles. Fairly often we'd hold drunken Kelethin races. Anyone can participate. Everyone starts out at level 1 at the Pod lift near the spawn point. You get handed 10 beers which you must drink (verified by a guild member). Then when the start signal is given the first one to the bank wins Xpp, or some somewhat nice item.
Bodies littered the ground under kelethin.
Rint said:Interesting topic with lots of opinions, so I’ll throw mine into the hat… When I started off with EQ on the XEV server we didn’t sell items in the EC Tunnel, but rather everyone sold their items/wares in Gfay (no idea why, it just was the place…). I found the shouting and SPAM that flew through my chat window intoxicating and it made the zone feel alive as I level up in Gfay; I loved that there were so many different classes and levels of players in the zone...
This paragraph captures everything I want and everything I feel and everything I long for and everything I am hoping Terminus brings.....
Feyshtey said:Raive said:For people who say they like doing "person-to-person" transactions. I'm sure there are a good bit of you who share that same sentiment. There will be folks in game who prefer that method but forcing people who may not like that or have time for it as the only method of participating in the game's economy is just silly. I'm all for immersion, but this is one of the things I feel the novelty will wear off weeks/months down the road, hell even days.
See, that was part of my first post in this thread. You can't say that if there is no AH/Bazaar, then people must go sit in EC tunnel. That's a false equivalency. The 3rd option is to use /auc as you run thru zones while traveling. A 4th option is to use /auc occiasionally while you're in an xp area while you're medding. A 5th option is to see if there's a person in your guild that would like to go to the EC Tunnel-like area of the gameworld and have what is effectively a guild-wide garage sale for a cut of the profits. And this discounts another half dozen options I'm sure the creative people here can come up with.
Absence of an AH/Bazar does not equal EC Tunnel+massive time investment. Arguing that is like saying that if there are no microwave ovens for convenient meals, everyone will starve.
I agree!! Though I enjoyed sitting around Gfay shouting for WTB "xyz" or WTS "xyz" I didn't want to spend all my play time doing so. When I needed to travel to a particular area to meet up with friends or quest I would often do a /ooc WTB/WTS whatever it was I had or needed as I passed through zones, and many times I did better that way than sitting around Gfay. However, I found once the Channels got put in place it was easier to have a Channel Chat window open that was for Auctions/Selling only that I could utilize while playing in a different zone or what not; it didn't require me to be face to face with someone but still gave me the ability to haggle/negotiate with someone once I found a buyer or seller. We would often meet-up later at a predefined time/place to exchange items for cash, this to me worked out great and changed the game vs sitting around all day trying to buy/sell. If we could have Channels for selling/buying and then utilize a pop-up trade window to execute the transaction immediately that would be nice, as it would still offer those individuals like me who prefer to barter/haggle but without the tediousness of sitting around one zone trying to buy/sell...
Rint
Rint said:If we could have Channels for selling/buying and then utilize a pop-up trade window to execute the transaction immediately that would be nice, as it would still offer those individuals like me who prefer to barter/haggle but without the tediousness of sitting around one zone trying to buy/sell...
Do you mean the trade window pops up regardless of where both of you are? That sort of defeats the argument of an AH hurts trading. As far as this allows for haggling, you can still do that by sending a message/tell to the auction poster and get a response then or when the person comes back to check their tells. Remotely buying or selling stuff via a popup is even less realistic/immersive - seems that is what the no-AH people are complaining about - especially if it arrives in your inventory after the popup, though I don't feel like you're suggesting that idea. Having to be in a city with the AH is much more realistic than buying/selling with a popup anywhere in the world.
Global /auc without a popup... I'm not for it as it once again kills off the need to be in a market style location (chat and/or AH styles). Regardless of it being chat and/or an AH, I know people would use a non-official global channel for auctions and you'd still have to meet up at some point. So it's not worth arguing against that part imo.
I like how so many of us are of course not posting a lot during work hours <.< >.>
fazool said:hmmmmmm this next related idea could be controversial......
I like the convenience of mailing packages to other players but I'm afraid that will negate the need to actually interact "in person" and, again break immersion.
Mail order swords... hell yeah! As long as this isn't combined with any sort of board (basically mail + board = AH) and the mail goes to a mailbox I don't mind. I'd also encourage a delay between send and receive, only 5-20min not 1hr or anything, but something.
Edit: Mailboxes would be global, you wouldn't have a "mailbox bind point" that it had to be sent to or requiring the sender to specify a location. That seems unecessary to me for a mail system.
Yes, and in the original Baz, I used it as part of inventory management if I needed bank space. I would check the prices around and - really needing bank space- would peg my prices slightly lower than the lowest for the item, or I would guess.
The intent was to get rid of the thing and if I could make a few plat, fine. If it didnt sell I would then lower it again he next night. But I was able to see the chats the next day- alot of scrolling up but sometimes people would send tells wanting to haggle. What I would like to have happen in this case is me being able to send a message or mail or something saying I got their tell and I still have the item if they want to trade-
I did get woken up once when I head the "ching" of something being sold- lol.
But I would hate somehting popping up in mid-battle regarding an item I sent to AH or in /auc to sell on he spot.
Raive said:dev life has its perks being in front of a screen all day :)
You don't do this as a dev?
I can neither confirm nor deny this claim #pleadTheFIF
Raive said:For people who say they like doing "person-to-person" transactions. I'm sure there are a good bit of you who share that same sentiment. There will be folks in game who prefer that method but forcing people who may not like that or have time for it as the only method of participating in the game's economy is just silly. I'm all for immersion, but this is one of the things I feel the novelty will wear off weeks/months down the road, hell even days.
That's the difference:
A certain population of gamers are sick and tired of MMO's that just cater to the instant combat kids, and want a virtual world where you have to live and interact. The economy is one of the mos timportant parts of that.
There are brokers in real life. Can we not have a system in place where you can hire a broker, who takes a percentage of the sale as a fee, to sell items for you? Please? One of my least favorite things in EQ was to sit and chat spam or /afk in the Bazaar. I understand that people like that as a part of their gameplay, but you all need to understand that for every one of you who do like it, there's another who hates it. Those of you who like it can also be a broker and gain extra cash by selling items for other people who don't want to spend their time doing that. There just needs to be some sort of system in place to prevent items/money from being stolen. I imagine that wouldn't be too difficult to implement.
fazool said:Raive said:For people who say they like doing "person-to-person" transactions. I'm sure there are a good bit of you who share that same sentiment. There will be folks in game who prefer that method but forcing people who may not like that or have time for it as the only method of participating in the game's economy is just silly. I'm all for immersion, but this is one of the things I feel the novelty will wear off weeks/months down the road, hell even days.
That's the difference:
A certain population of gamers are sick and tired of MMO's that just cater to the instant combat kids, and want a virtual world where you have to live and interact. The economy is one of the mos timportant parts of that.
Unfortunately to your arguement, this isn't any where near the "instant gratification". This is called providing more options for the player to enjoy the game. I go farming some dungeons all day, got me some loot, attempt to sell it until I go to bed and anything leftover I pop it on a broker/AH to see if I can clear some inventory. I find that in no shape form or fashion detrimental to the game's economy what so ever. Having higher uptime on players having the opportunity to access player-made or camped goods has nothing but benefits to everyone involved. One way pantheon will find its way headed down the same fate like VG by trying to FORCE immersion and using the logic of (because it worked 20 years ago) and simply not being smart and taking a system and improving upon it. Like what was posted before, this isn't an all-or-nothing type of ordeal. Again seeing how going from no auction house/bazaar in EQ to it being implemented, to EQ2, VG, Rift, players still interact with one another. There are still live open markets available.
We can agree to disagree. However I do hope VR focuses on making decisions that make sense for the game now and going forward as that scope has to always be in the thought-process when deciding these kind of mechanics. I look past nostalgic value because again, we want a product can stand on its own two feet and withstand the test of time. In order to achieve this, there are certain aspects of the game that we will have to be modernized to a certain degree. This aspect is one of them.
chaoticyeshua said:
One of my least favorite things in EQ was to sit and chat spam or /afk in the Bazaar. I understand that people like that as a part of their gameplay, but you all need to understand that for every one of you who do like it, there's another who hates it.