Cromulent said:Personally I'm glad they are adding local auction houses. I've done the whole EC tunnel thing and standing around for hours watching spam flow through you chat windows getting bored trying to sell an item is not my idea of fun.
The advantage of local auction houses is that there might be a local area that is better to sell one item compared to another item so people will flock to the correct auction house based on what it is that they want to sell. This should add another kind of mini game to Pantheon where people work out what areas want specific items. This is likely to be even more important for crafters where they require very specific items that might not drop near them so they might be willing to spend extra money on items that they want that have been listed on their local auction house. I think this might lead to some fun game play.
If you just have a single zone dedicted to selling like the EC tunnel you lose all of that fun as everyone just goes to the same place to sell no matter what the item is. I'm looking at this from a positive point of view and there are certainly positives to be taken from this decision.
Pretty much this (for me at least). If the only two options are standing in Lions Arch spamming "WTS ICY DRAGON BLADE..40k", and using regional AHs.. give me regional AHs all day long. None of the 3 regionals while playing VG were ever useless. I made the trip to each one every day looking for items to salvage etc. And some were better than others for different items. A quest reward that people didn't need, or out grew usually ended up on that continents AH. If you didn't know that, it was a missed opportunity for you to aquire decent salvage mats. You learned what to look for on each AH as the inventories were very different. Same with selling. XYZ zone has a ton of undead.. so you list your undead slaying items on that AH as they sell more often. That never stopped people from reaching out to me directly because they saw something on the AH i made they were interested in. But it saved massive eye bleed by trying to keep up with chat spam. Plus, people sell things on AH's that i might be able to use as a crafter that they would just vendor if they have to spam trade chat.
CaseyW said:Cromulent said:Personally I'm glad they are adding local auction houses. I've done the whole EC tunnel thing and standing around for hours watching spam flow through you chat windows getting bored trying to sell an item is not my idea of fun.
The advantage of local auction houses is that there might be a local area that is better to sell one item compared to another item so people will flock to the correct auction house based on what it is that they want to sell. This should add another kind of mini game to Pantheon where people work out what areas want specific items. This is likely to be even more important for crafters where they require very specific items that might not drop near them so they might be willing to spend extra money on items that they want that have been listed on their local auction house. I think this might lead to some fun game play.
If you just have a single zone dedicted to selling like the EC tunnel you lose all of that fun as everyone just goes to the same place to sell no matter what the item is. I'm looking at this from a positive point of view and there are certainly positives to be taken from this decision.
Pretty much this (for me at least). If the only two options are standing in Lions Arch spamming "WTS ICY DRAGON BLADE..40k", and using regional AHs.. give me regional AHs all day long. None of the 3 regionals while playing VG were ever useless. I made the trip to each one every day looking for items to salvage etc. And some were better than others for different items. A quest reward that people didn't need, or out grew usually ended up on that continents AH. If you didn't know that, it was a missed opportunity for you to aquire decent salvage mats. You learned what to look for on each AH as the inventories were very different. Same with selling. XYZ zone has a ton of undead.. so you list your undead slaying items on that AH as they sell more often. That never stopped people from reaching out to me directly because they saw something on the AH i made they were interested in. But it saved massive eye bleed by trying to keep up with chat spam. Plus, people sell things on AH's that i might be able to use as a crafter that they would just vendor if they have to spam trade chat.
In a vacuum I don't have an issue with localized auction houses. They'll probably be nice. I have a problem with what seems to be a systemic philosophy of shortcuts. Offline travel, sharding, non player based fast travel, etc. I hope they strike the right balance.
Krixus said:CaseyW said:Cromulent said:Personally I'm glad they are adding local auction houses. I've done the whole EC tunnel thing and standing around for hours watching spam flow through you chat windows getting bored trying to sell an item is not my idea of fun.
The advantage of local auction houses is that there might be a local area that is better to sell one item compared to another item so people will flock to the correct auction house based on what it is that they want to sell. This should add another kind of mini game to Pantheon where people work out what areas want specific items. This is likely to be even more important for crafters where they require very specific items that might not drop near them so they might be willing to spend extra money on items that they want that have been listed on their local auction house. I think this might lead to some fun game play.
If you just have a single zone dedicted to selling like the EC tunnel you lose all of that fun as everyone just goes to the same place to sell no matter what the item is. I'm looking at this from a positive point of view and there are certainly positives to be taken from this decision.
Pretty much this (for me at least). If the only two options are standing in Lions Arch spamming "WTS ICY DRAGON BLADE..40k", and using regional AHs.. give me regional AHs all day long. None of the 3 regionals while playing VG were ever useless. I made the trip to each one every day looking for items to salvage etc. And some were better than others for different items. A quest reward that people didn't need, or out grew usually ended up on that continents AH. If you didn't know that, it was a missed opportunity for you to aquire decent salvage mats. You learned what to look for on each AH as the inventories were very different. Same with selling. XYZ zone has a ton of undead.. so you list your undead slaying items on that AH as they sell more often. That never stopped people from reaching out to me directly because they saw something on the AH i made they were interested in. But it saved massive eye bleed by trying to keep up with chat spam. Plus, people sell things on AH's that i might be able to use as a crafter that they would just vendor if they have to spam trade chat.
In a vacuum I don't have an issue with localized auction houses. They'll probably be nice. I have a problem with what seems to be a systemic philosophy of shortcuts. Offline travel, sharding, non player based fast travel, etc. I hope they strike the right balance.
Yup, I can totally agree with that.
CaseyW said:Cromulent said:Personally I'm glad they are adding local auction houses. I've done the whole EC tunnel thing and standing around for hours watching spam flow through you chat windows getting bored trying to sell an item is not my idea of fun.
The advantage of local auction houses is that there might be a local area that is better to sell one item compared to another item so people will flock to the correct auction house based on what it is that they want to sell. This should add another kind of mini game to Pantheon where people work out what areas want specific items. This is likely to be even more important for crafters where they require very specific items that might not drop near them so they might be willing to spend extra money on items that they want that have been listed on their local auction house. I think this might lead to some fun game play.
If you just have a single zone dedicted to selling like the EC tunnel you lose all of that fun as everyone just goes to the same place to sell no matter what the item is. I'm looking at this from a positive point of view and there are certainly positives to be taken from this decision.
Pretty much this (for me at least). If the only two options are standing in Lions Arch spamming "WTS ICY DRAGON BLADE..40k", and using regional AHs.. give me regional AHs all day long. None of the 3 regionals while playing VG were ever useless. I made the trip to each one every day looking for items to salvage etc. And some were better than others for different items. A quest reward that people didn't need, or out grew usually ended up on that continents AH. If you didn't know that, it was a missed opportunity for you to aquire decent salvage mats. You learned what to look for on each AH as the inventories were very different. Same with selling. XYZ zone has a ton of undead.. so you list your undead slaying items on that AH as they sell more often. That never stopped people from reaching out to me directly because they saw something on the AH i made they were interested in. But it saved massive eye bleed by trying to keep up with chat spam. Plus, people sell things on AH's that i might be able to use as a crafter that they would just vendor if they have to spam trade chat.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. I have seen regional AH's work very well and I am 100% confident, that after years of development for this game, VR chose what they felt was best overall for the health of the game. The auction house thread was longer than any other thread in the history of this forum so it's pretty much a guarantee that all perspectives have been considered. The best thing we can do right now is accept the decision that has been made and make the best out of it. Thankfully, we have over a full year of testing/development planned, and will be able tweak the system as time goes on. Constructive feedback will be very important. There are still plenty of questions surrounding how exactly the auction house system will work, but it's impossible to know until various other important systems are also implemented. I am extremely excited to learn more information about the market/economy and feel that the release of this information should be viewed as a major milestone. The world is starting to take on a much more realistic shape now. When it comes to something like this, we get to plan for what we see ahead. It isn't a matter of trying to find a way around a mountain to see what's on the other side. This is great news.
dragonan said:Can anyone plz explain what is fun in having hassle to sell or buy items.
Global AH problem some hard core nerds creat just ridiculous. We should be having FUN in this game by trying to get those items, mats and so on; maybe some tough time geting in to area to get them, but never should it be hard to sell it
Think of haggling/sellingandbuying as the games version of garage/yard sells... It just feels good to walk away with something you KNOW you got for a smashing DEAL! Or on the flip side when you sold something to someone who is impatient and wants an item RIGHT NOW who is willing to pay hand over fist for it.
Gamerchick said:dragonan said:Can anyone plz explain what is fun in having hassle to sell or buy items.
Global AH problem some hard core nerds creat just ridiculous. We should be having FUN in this game by trying to get those items, mats and so on; maybe some tough time geting in to area to get them, but never should it be hard to sell it
Think of haggling/sellingandbuying as the games version of garage/yard sells... It just feels good to walk away with something you KNOW you got for a smashing DEAL! Or on the flip side when you sold something to someone who is impatient and wants an item RIGHT NOW who is willing to pay hand over fist for it.
Things which take time and require personal investment yield more personal satisfaction when a positive result is achieved. Time+people= lasting connection to the world and game. Abstracting those things yields a sterile solo style game. We can all go play dark souls whenever we want.
Malsirian said:Assuming the world is large enough and travel limited enough, having regional AHs can add something to the game instead of taking away from it. If you want to be a trader and transport items from one region to another to make some money that's a possibility with regional AHs. [...]transport goods (slowly, at a risk) to other areas of the world and turn them in for coin, the further and riskier the trip the more money you would make. Regional AHs, in a way, (could) offer this same benefit. [...] (assuming there is a postal service) Lots up in the air. But if it's done correctly, it could be a lot of fun. And for people who aren't interested in that sort of thing I'm sure players will eventually congregate somewhere to sell their stuff like EC tunnel. It could end up being the best of both worlds. *fingers crossed*
I was thinking the same thing- not only items but also perhaps mail. However I am not adverse to the idea of paying for convenience. If I need sturgeon eggs from Dark Myr, I will pay more for them if I need them in crafting right now and they are at that - local- auction house. However. if my skill only improves with different recipes- the more, the better-I could sandbox my own quest and travel to those places to meet people and do quests and have so many fish eggs I wont feel bad about dropping them.
Laura said:
I thought the announcement made by Brad in the previous stream would make people talk on the official forums, maybe I've missed it? I honestly was disappointed with this design approach. The Auction House in the modern MMORPG design philosophy was a major factor in cutting the player-to-player interaction. It destroyed the reason why people connected in older MMOs like EverQuest. With the Auction House you honestly have no reason to care about the community... you will simply go to an in-game software and search for the best price out there in a single click eliminating possible haggling, bargaining, talking to people, and hence creating a social experience. That lost social opportunity doesn't comply with the theme of Pantheon being a more social MMO.
What do you guys think?
I would have been disappointed if it had not been made clear several times by Kilsin and crew that this is their starting point. They need a starting point and a road to testing. Things can and will change during testing but for now they need to stay the course. I have read nearly every post in the huge thread and now this one and
I have observed :
Those that DO want an AH's main argument is they don't want to stand and spam chat, Those that DON'T want an AH don't say they do want that.. they just want to gather and interact with each other.
VS.
Those that DON'T want an AH are not against a SEARCH function, they just want face to face interaction included. Those that want an AH are not against face to face interaction, they just want to do a quick search find want they want (or list what they have) and get back to what they enjoy.
Most all seem to think all there is, is what they have seen in the past in other games (doesn't seem to be a lot of thinking outside the box going on)
What compromise could be created that included
No need to Spam Chat, Search, Face to Face interaction, Instant Listing of items?
I think a good compromise would be regional AHs limited to commodities (crafting components and other things that you tend to buy in bulk--maybe "simple" armors and weapons for upgrades or whatever) and then auction chat is done through a chat system (or even maybe player-merchant stalls or some such).
Add a 15-20% tax to using the regional AH, then people can weigh which option they would rather do. Don't really care and just want to unload stuff while doing other things? Toss it in the AH. Want to make all you can and get the best deals? Go to wherever the trading hub ends up and /auction WTB/WTS/WTT.
Zorkon said:I would have been disappointed if it had not been made clear several times by Kilsin and crew that this is their starting point. They need a starting point and a road to testing. Things can and will change during testing but for now they need to stay the course. I have read nearly every post in the huge thread and now this one and
I have observed :
Those that DO want an AH's main argument is they don't want to stand and spam chat, Those that DON'T want an AH don't say they do want that.. they just want to gather and interact with each other.
VS.
Those that DON'T want an AH are not against a SEARCH function, they just want face to face interaction included. Those that want an AH are not against face to face interaction, they just want to do a quick search find want they want (or list what they have) and get back to what they enjoy.
Most all seem to think all there is, is what they have seen in the past in other games (doesn't seem to be a lot of thinking outside the box going on)
What compromise could be created that included
No need to Spam Chat, Search, Face to Face interaction, Instant Listing of items?
That's actually an interesting proposal. What they could have is an auction that actually functioned something like a live auction. They could just call it a trading post, tbh, since there's no actual auctioneering. You go up to the trader npc, and your items enter a system that merely shows the item that's for sale, and the players that are selling them. From that point forward, it's a matter of pure interaction. If they wanted face to face, your items only stay in the system for as long as you're in town. After that, they're sent back to you via mail.
If they wanted to add more convenience, they could leave them in there even after you leave town. After negotiating in tells, the player will submit the offer which sends you mail. You can go to any mailbox and approve the deal by mail.
This eliminates the need to spam, some of the time involved, removal of player interaction, and the automation which allows people to play the market (as well as scripting/cheating via 3rd party tools).
Laura said:
I thought the announcement made by Brad in the previous stream would make people talk on the official forums, maybe I've missed it? I honestly was disappointed with this design approach. The Auction House in the modern MMORPG design philosophy was a major factor in cutting the player-to-player interaction.
I am happy with the announcement. I have been on P99 recently while waiting for Pantheon. I can't get up at 3am to be online when people are playing. In game chat is just spamming and spamming WTS stuff. You can't read 1/2 of it as it scrolls off the screen too fast. I personally prefer an auction house mechanism. I love EQ once they had the Bazaar. Made my enjoyment so much better.
oneADseven said:CaseyW said:Cromulent said:Personally I'm glad they are adding local auction houses. I've done the whole EC tunnel thing and standing around for hours watching spam flow through you chat windows getting bored trying to sell an item is not my idea of fun.
The advantage of local auction houses is that there might be a local area that is better to sell one item compared to another item so people will flock to the correct auction house based on what it is that they want to sell. This should add another kind of mini game to Pantheon where people work out what areas want specific items. This is likely to be even more important for crafters where they require very specific items that might not drop near them so they might be willing to spend extra money on items that they want that have been listed on their local auction house. I think this might lead to some fun game play.
If you just have a single zone dedicted to selling like the EC tunnel you lose all of that fun as everyone just goes to the same place to sell no matter what the item is. I'm looking at this from a positive point of view and there are certainly positives to be taken from this decision.
Pretty much this (for me at least). If the only two options are standing in Lions Arch spamming "WTS ICY DRAGON BLADE..40k", and using regional AHs.. give me regional AHs all day long. None of the 3 regionals while playing VG were ever useless. I made the trip to each one every day looking for items to salvage etc. And some were better than others for different items. A quest reward that people didn't need, or out grew usually ended up on that continents AH. If you didn't know that, it was a missed opportunity for you to aquire decent salvage mats. You learned what to look for on each AH as the inventories were very different. Same with selling. XYZ zone has a ton of undead.. so you list your undead slaying items on that AH as they sell more often. That never stopped people from reaching out to me directly because they saw something on the AH i made they were interested in. But it saved massive eye bleed by trying to keep up with chat spam. Plus, people sell things on AH's that i might be able to use as a crafter that they would just vendor if they have to spam trade chat.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. I have seen regional AH's work very well and I am 100% confident, that after years of development for this game, VR chose what they felt was best overall for the health of the game. The auction house thread was longer than any other thread in the history of this forum so it's pretty much a guarantee that all perspectives have been considered. The best thing we can do right now is accept the decision that has been made and make the best out of it. Thankfully, we have over a full year of testing/development planned, and will be able tweak the system as time goes on. Constructive feedback will be very important. There are still plenty of questions surrounding how exactly the auction house system will work, but it's impossible to know until various other important systems are also implemented. I am extremely excited to learn more information about the market/economy and feel that the release of this information should be viewed as a major milestone. The world is starting to take on a much more realistic shape now. When it comes to something like this, we get to plan for what we see ahead. It isn't a matter of trying to find a way around a mountain to see what's on the other side. This is great news.
This is the voice of reason. We know what might be in the path, but we don't know exactly what it'll look like, or how we'll navigate it yet. Let's keep our eyes open and minds a bit clear. Everything in this game does not have to be a clone of a previous game and doesn't inherently have to have the same stink as the same feature in another game. Raiding, Auction Houses, and other hot button issues may be different flavors of what you've seen before, and we may react differently as a community. I'm certain they will listen to the testers before the game goes live and adjust for the health of the future game.
If I am asked "Do I want an Auction House" I will answer "No, I do not."
But if I am asked "Am I disappointed there will be an auction house?" I will answer "No, I am not." I am unaffected since I doubt I'll use it.
This bodes well for any dumpsetr-diver who happens to be on the server that I am on. I'll be selling to NPCs. Have fun!
What I'm eluding to is my hopes are during testing they try the Craigslist Idea.
PLUS with the added functionality of...
Not found in any AH I have ever seen but IS avalable in the EC Tunnel concept.
What is missing?
Even if there is an AH, with search, instant buying, I hope to facilitate discussion and haggling, the EQ2 model of taxation/brokerage is used, combined with an in-GUI button to open dialogue with the seller (or in the case Zorkon mentions, a potential buyer who has advertised on the AH he WANTS to buy something)
I think this can be done to have a good compromise. No it obviously won't be EC Tunnel, but we still had EC tunnel in EQ2 Nostalgia 15 years later via #trade channels, etc and met up for crafting/commissions/item sales. I'd much rather a hybrid where the community just decides it's eaiser to use the AH locally for arrows and junk, but big items are put into a trade channel or zone shouts as you run by. The community can decide to do that. Chat channels are free for use!
For me personally if they can do AH in a way that truly keeps them isolated from one another then I’m ok with it. One way this gets derailed is by the shared banking system and more or less by mailing items to your yourself.
All I have to do to spread my crafted goods around the globe is to reach a bank and add them to the shared group slot then all I need is an alt at each AH location.
Let’s say I’m ready to sell my 5 crafted swords I just finish crafting in Seattle. I add one to the Seattle AH and add the rest to my shared banking slot. I log out and log into my Tokyo toon that is level 1 and add one of the swords from my shared bank to its AH and repeat to London AH, Pyongyang AH and Cairo AH. Now my one crafter is stocking swords across the globe. If I’m really into it I could be doing this all day long without really spending much effort beyond creating am alt at each AH city.
Again I’m not against AH and not against shared bank slots, I just want to point out how it’s gotten derailed in the past for me.
Thread has been cleaned up, posts removed, please keep it civil and mature, any personal attacks, off topic discussion or breach of the guidelines will result in your posts being removed without warning to allow the others to enjoy a mature conversation on this topic.
Thank you to those of you who are discussing this in a mature manner, it is appreciated.
The concept of a listing board has been mentioned. I think this is a pretty good compromise. It acts as a search facilitator. Though we can all predeict what happens next... The person you want to buy from will not be there!
From experience an AH will not stop the /auction chat some things are just best sold that way.
Im interested to seeing how this works out.
I would like to see both listings of availble offerings with means to get in touch - e.g. xyz item sold by abc + personal note where the trader is able to add a comment - the vendor can maybe then enter his//her alts names and play times to facilitate connecting. option 2 is the classic instant / bidding mechanism.
You could make the argument that not allowing auction houses keeps prices down. If a player thinks they can throw up an item and walk away for a week they may be less inclined to accept a lower price if they had limited time to haggle in real time.
Mechanics that allow players to interact outside of combat is always good.
You know, EQOA had an actual auction style AH. The term "auction house" now seems to mean any kind of AFK selling mechanism, regardless of if it's actually an auction. For instance, the Bazaar in EQ is not an auction.
You could throw an item up there with a Buy It Now price, while also having a minimum bid auction style type listing for a custom period of time. Similarly, you could even shout in a channel that you listed a particularly high demand item to encourage people to bid.
At the same time, I don't really believe that shouting in channels keeps prices down. I've mentioned it before in previous threads of this nature, but P99 has a website you can go to that basically runs an auction house log parser 24/7 so you can search for items in realtime.
I think this is a good compromise. Excessive chat window use as in EQ is just a burden and it feels clunky. There's no way the player-to-player trading process can't be simplified into a separate interface piece with its own mechanics. If it's regional, so be it.
It never fails to amaze me that people are upset that the proposed design lets different people play in different ways.
Instead of saying NO broker or auction house those that prefer the bazaar approach (unlike the great majority of us I suspect) should be focusing on how to design a broker or AH that preserves some use for "the tunnel" rather than arguing that "the tunnel" should be the ONLY permitted means of selling things. We have had quite a few suggestions along those lines in various threads. For that matter those may be obsolete since the idea of regional markets in an of itself does more to help "the tunnel" than some of us might have wanted.
dorotea said:It never fails to amaze me that people are upset that the proposed design lets different people play in different ways.
I think it's more of a concern with the negative aspects of an AH, and since we have very few details there's no clear answer on how these will be dealt with. There will and should be limitations in all aspects of the game. How far the limitations go here is still up for debate. I'm very interested, and optimistic, in Pantheon's approach to this issue.