Those people should carry their own stack of the reagents for that cleric buff, if they want it cast upon them! And groups should compensate their clerics for the costs of those reagents! That's how we did it, at least. They also don't necessarily have to be expensive. I think it would be cool to need reagents for resist/acclimation spells. At this point, I'd settle for spells being a meaningful part of Acclimation, though, reagents or not.
I was happy with the first demonstration of the acclimation system
However,just like @Feyshtey
I hope that what is demonstrated is just the tip of the iceberg of a foundational system the game is build on.
Reading the lore about Dark Myr,it would make sense for them to have a minor natural resistance to toxic environments
I also hope the character physic will have a limited ability to gain permanent minor natural resistance (2 out 8 max) over a very long period of time
based on where the character resides most during the course of the game.
A combination of situation gear,character physics ,racials, the consumables demonstrated
would determine how long a character can last in a cold area before entering a state of hypothermia,further influencing mobility and combat efficiency
The joke about the healer keeping up the player that afk'd in the icy wind was good for a giggle ,but I hope the healer can't just solve everything with heals.
Shouldn't be a system that is easily dismissed like that.Being required to be concious of your environment and adjusting accordingly would be a welcome addition to gameplay indeed
Shucklighter said:That's true that we don't know everything. I can't argue with that. I'm just saying that to me, it seems like a very, very simple system right now, and that I was looking forward to something much more complicated. You could tell me I need to camp a bunch of mobs with a low chance of spawning every 12 hours, run around Terminus for weeks, and get several rare items from contested raid targets just to get a certain infusion, and I'd still say the same thing based on what was shown to us today. Simple. Better remember to click into cold mode. Just my opinion, of course, like you said.
EDIT: Also, not trying to be negative here. I was very pleased by the stream, and I'm sure Acclimation is still a work-in-progress. I'm just giving feedback on what I saw today.
This is a fair point and I'm sure maybe even with the best acclimation you might actually need a class to make warm spots like the druid or something maybe, just so just getting maxxed accilamted to a certain climate doesn't protect you from everything in that certain enviroment, or like they were talking about maybe you have to get accliamted to multiple enviroments but can't do all of them to the desired amount due to only having 5 options i tihnk it was maybe 6 either way lets say you in an area to be be completely protected you need 3 cold 2 poison 2 disease for instance there isn't a way to protect you from all of the elements so like i said you might need a class to make it a bit safer and everything, I'm sure they will make it work one way or another and i understand your concern i really do it does seem easy but I'm sure there will be moments where yo'll have to be switching it constantly within a small area where maybe you have to fight in a raid encounter where each guardian or something is in 3 diferent climates, who knows
While I understand and agree that infusions seem simple, the argument that doing difficult and long quests for them wouldn't matter because they're still too easy is silly to me. It would be just as easy to get gear to acclimate....and if you need gear for every body part and every climate then your inventory will be full. Sure, you'll need to plan ahead. But you cant plan for the unforeseen. Terminus is unexplored as of now. We have no idea what lies ahead...
anyways, I think infusions are fine.even if they're permanent. It was my understanding that once you used it, it stays in your acclimation tab and you can cycle through all the ones you have. Load up on frost. Move through area. Select winshear for the next area...your frost ones should still be there for later use. That was my understanding at least. Cohh asked if you use a higher tier if it'll replace a lower tier automatically and they answered yes. Maybe I'm wrong and they're one time use. That'd be a pain. I'd prefer permanent, but make them progressively harder to obtain. Higher tiers could act like keys to new areas. Perhaps some really high level areas will need max infusion tiers PLUS gear. Maybe gear will be the temporary way to boost acclimation with the infusions being the rare permanent method. Just some late night rambling thoughts....I'm really excited to see how this druid weather taming works. That could make things really interesting!
Okay, I watched the video (amazing, loved it). I like the way they are going about handling it. It may be relatively easy to get the first tier or so of infusions for each climate (but still time consuming to get all I imagine) but the later infusions sound like they will be a bit more costly and/or complicated. Personally I am not a fan of having to constantly chug potions or carry tons of extra gear (and reagents), it's mostly just tedious to me without truly adding much. The most recent example I have with this would be from Zelda Breath of the Wild in which there were a few different climates you had to swap gear out in order to venture further into. You could chug potions or eat special foods to do it earlier than when you get the gear needed. Once you get the gear it was pretty fun and interesting to play around with at first but it quickly became a chore to have to go back into your inventory and swap out armors. Granted it was a minor chore, it wasn't really fun and there was never an instance in which I could hold up an entire party because I needed to run back to the bank to grab a piece I forgot etc.
They said in the stream they are no fans of tedium when addressing the question about physical ranged classes and the need to have arrows. I figure that went into their reasoning for making infusions a permanent solution that doesn't also seem to take up inventory/armor slots and having them not take up those slots seems to mean they can get a bit more creative with the environmental stresses in various places (like the mentioned toxic/fire or windshear/frigid) which would otherwise require you to have a bag or two full of just these situational items. This also doesn't mean that the potions or spells won't have a place. It's possible that given the limited number of infusions you can equip that players might end up short even at max infusion because they are going into a dual or even tri-climate area and they can't cover all their bases, which would be pretty sweet honestly. Especially if there is a boss that debuffs ;).
I would like to see combat banes/boons based on climate though like fire doing more damage to ice in frigid areas or ice doing more to fire in scorching areas etc.
vjek said:Looks like a simple consumable/resource/crafting/money sink so far.well, that was to expect since they said you can find ways to acclimate. i hope that you cannot negate all climate effects by acclimating, so you still have something like a different ruleset in different climates. otherwise it's just extra grind and the need to carry extra equip around. acclimating grind would also make it harder to group, if everyone is attuned to different climates. i'm confident that's a problem they do not want to create.
I wonder if instead of the frigid infusions they only had a druid. Would they have been able to proceed to the door in the stream using a druids abilities? That would've been a neat way to show it, but I digress. It's still pre pre alpha :p
Now just imagine having to combo gear, infusions(including the fancy crafted ones) and druid/class/racial abilities to get somewhere. They could take this pretty far if they wanted to.
Acclimation should happen through spending time in the less extreme versions of that environment.
It should be treated as a form of progression versus just a toggle that you click on and off.
I did not like the permanent potions that just give you buffs.
This system is clearly in its earliest form and I hope it gets grown into a robust, fun way to interact with the game world.
Thanks in advance,
Kiz~
Angrykiz said:Acclimation should happen through spending time in the less extreme versions of that environment.
It should be treated as a form of progression versus just a toggle that you click on and off.
I did not like the permanent potions that just give you buffs.
This system is clearly in its earliest form and I hope it gets grown into a robust, fun way to interact with the game world.
Thanks in advance,
Kiz~
I agree that it makes sense that acclimation be gained by spending time in the lower scale environment and gradually ramping up. That's kind of the definition of acclimation. But isnt it possible that this is how it works to one degree or another? Maybe you have to go to a cold environment that is uncomfortable, and spend enough time there taking minor damage or some other nuisance until you complete a quest, or obtain a drop to get that first tier of acclimation?
As far as it being something that you swap out, I guess I'm kind of indifferent. On the one hand, yes, it would make sense that acclimation isnt something that you "forget". It's persistent. However, I fully embrace the need to be cognizant of the environment and there being a required action to adjust accordingly.
Watched the stream like everyone else.
Not cool on permanent potions. (I say that now, but really, it's trivialized like mentioned already)
I would be cool on a potion lasting until you die or log off (with the effect still enabled up to an hour after logging out in case you get knocked offline).
I would be cool on a permanent ability through untold hours of being around the environment or doing a quest that infuses you with immunity.
Thought I was watching Battlefield Bad Company in a cold area with the screen GFX icing over.
Make death happen if you freeze or fry via gradual HP decline if you've no potion / spell / immunity. This game has sharp edges!
Nimryl said:I'm not sure what I think. I see some positives and some negatives. Infusions, "I just dont get". How do they work exactly in lore? what's there reasoning behind it?
Acclimatising by enviroment duration makes sense.. and gear makes sense.. Where do infusions fit in?
I also feel that with infusions people could "buy acclimatisation". Not keen on this as people could just instant access areas that people have worked up too if they didn't have the money. (RMT + Powerlevel)
Personally feel RMT methods of exploitation should prevented as much as possible. Cuts the need to RMT in the first place.
Maybe I'm getting the wrong end of the stick here idk.. but thats how I currently percieve it.
They said most items aren't no drop except for certain quested items and I'm sure the infusions will definately be no drop to prevent this entirely, just to stop exactly what you said above
Just to add my two cents in as well. I understand this is just an introduction to acclimation and it will be expanded upon. That being said I was severly disappointed in how trivial they made it.
1. Infusions? genetic modifications, you are going to have to weave some mighty lore to make that feel like it fits.
I was expecting acclimation to be a combination of skills, buffs, and enchantments to reflect VR's commitment to strategic planning and situational gear. For example, I am going into the frozen mountian so I am grabbing my fur boots enchanted with frost resistance, my flaming sword with a small AoE of warmth +1, and begging a buff from a guild mate. I have spent a few game sessions fighting in the frosted foothills of the mountain to skill up my natural resistance and now I can delve deeper into the ice caves without taking sever penalties. Acclimation intensities would align with both levels and content. A lowbie solo player simply wouldn't have the fortutude to enter a dungeon, where as a higher level group with appropriate buffs and potions would walk right in.
2. Permanent? Basically your saying this a keyed system and I just have to get a lucky drop to gain access. (Yawn)
Why would you ruin an awesome new mechanic by making it so simple? This is a great opportunity to expand the robustness of several system by adding keywords to items, crafting, and abilities. Acclimation was originally described as part of the strategic planning for an encounter; do I take my heat shield or shiled of vitality. How is this current iteration strategic? Is there a cooldown on changing out infusions? The current set up does not make me reconsider a pressure encounter versus any other encounter.
Azotate said:Just to add my two cents in as well. I understand this is just an introduction to acclimation and it will be expanded upon. That being said I was severly disappointed in how trivial they made it.
1. Infusions? genetic modifications, you are going to have to weave some mighty lore to make that feel like it fits.
I was expecting acclimation to be a combination of skills, buffs, and enchantments to reflect VR's commitment to strategic planning and situational gear. For example, I am going into the frozen mountian so I am grabbing my fur boots enchanted with frost resistance, my flaming sword with a small AoE of warmth +1, and begging a buff from a guild mate. I have spent a few game sessions fighting in the frosted foothills of the mountain to skill up my natural resistance and now I can delve deeper into the ice caves without taking sever penalties. Acclimation intensities would align with both levels and content. A lowbie solo player simply wouldn't have the fortutude to enter a dungeon, where as a higher level group with appropriate buffs and potions would walk right in.
2. Permanent? Basically your saying this a keyed system and I just have to get a lucky drop to gain access. (Yawn)
Why would you ruin an awesome new mechanic by making it so simple? This is a great opportunity to expand the robustness of several system by adding keywords to items, crafting, and abilities. Acclimation was originally described as part of the strategic planning for an encounter; do I take my heat shield or shiled of vitality. How is this current iteration strategic? Is there a cooldown on changing out infusions? The current set up does not make me reconsider a pressure encounter versus any other encounter.
I agree wholeheartedly with the above. The idea behind additional gear for resists is sound, and worked well in early EQ and even early WoW.
I think I just expected it to be more gear based, and less generic. As is, it almost sounds like we're collecting inexhaustible magical dope to resist the elements.
How about just giving us a system where we slot gems or rune augment to each piece of armor like other games. Maybe legs and chest get two of them.
Azotate said:Just to add my two cents in as well. I understand this is just an introduction to acclimation and it will be expanded upon. That being said I was severly disappointed in how trivial they made it.
1. Infusions? genetic modifications, you are going to have to weave some mighty lore to make that feel like it fits.
I was expecting acclimation to be a combination of skills, buffs, and enchantments to reflect VR's commitment to strategic planning and situational gear. For example, I am going into the frozen mountian so I am grabbing my fur boots enchanted with frost resistance, my flaming sword with a small AoE of warmth +1, and begging a buff from a guild mate. I have spent a few game sessions fighting in the frosted foothills of the mountain to skill up my natural resistance and now I can delve deeper into the ice caves without taking sever penalties. Acclimation intensities would align with both levels and content. A lowbie solo player simply wouldn't have the fortutude to enter a dungeon, where as a higher level group with appropriate buffs and potions would walk right in.
2. Permanent? Basically your saying this a keyed system and I just have to get a lucky drop to gain access. (Yawn)
Why would you ruin an awesome new mechanic by making it so simple? This is a great opportunity to expand the robustness of several system by adding keywords to items, crafting, and abilities. Acclimation was originally described as part of the strategic planning for an encounter; do I take my heat shield or shiled of vitality. How is this current iteration strategic? Is there a cooldown on changing out infusions? The current set up does not make me reconsider a pressure encounter versus any other encounter.
This is what I thought it was going to be as well. More of a skill based system, ala weapon and casting skills that gradually increased the more time you spent in that particular climate. This skill could then be augmented with resist gear and non-permanent potions/infusions while your acclimation is building up to help offset the negative effects. There wouldn't be a need to carry bags and bags of equipment, but maybe a few pieces here and there to help during the acclimation process. If my group is camping Ice Giants for several days, I'm not only rewarded with the xp and loot drops, but I'm building up my frigid and possibly wind shear acclimation. This is a direct correlation to my time investment. If crafters can make these and master crafters can make the higher tier ones, then they can't be no-drop. What's to prevent someone from just buying the infustion to circumvent all the work I just put in?
I very much love the concept and think you guys are on the right track. If done right, this is a complete game changer compared to other games on the market. I also know this is a very early iteration of the system and this is not a bash on it. I just hope there is more to the implementation than what was seen yesterday. I appreciate you showing us and don't want to come across ungrateful. I think this can be done without needing a bunch of tedium, but also not being as simple as a one time injection until I need a new injection for a higher tier. I think players would get that feeling of accomplishment more if they were building upon an acclimation skill, rather than just take a shot and be done with it.
Mandalorian2K said:Azotate said:Just to add my two cents in as well. I understand this is just an introduction to acclimation and it will be expanded upon. That being said I was severly disappointed in how trivial they made it.
1. Infusions? genetic modifications, you are going to have to weave some mighty lore to make that feel like it fits.
I was expecting acclimation to be a combination of skills, buffs, and enchantments to reflect VR's commitment to strategic planning and situational gear. For example, I am going into the frozen mountian so I am grabbing my fur boots enchanted with frost resistance, my flaming sword with a small AoE of warmth +1, and begging a buff from a guild mate. I have spent a few game sessions fighting in the frosted foothills of the mountain to skill up my natural resistance and now I can delve deeper into the ice caves without taking sever penalties. Acclimation intensities would align with both levels and content. A lowbie solo player simply wouldn't have the fortutude to enter a dungeon, where as a higher level group with appropriate buffs and potions would walk right in.
2. Permanent? Basically your saying this a keyed system and I just have to get a lucky drop to gain access. (Yawn)
Why would you ruin an awesome new mechanic by making it so simple? This is a great opportunity to expand the robustness of several system by adding keywords to items, crafting, and abilities. Acclimation was originally described as part of the strategic planning for an encounter; do I take my heat shield or shiled of vitality. How is this current iteration strategic? Is there a cooldown on changing out infusions? The current set up does not make me reconsider a pressure encounter versus any other encounter.
This is what I thought it was going to be as well. More of a skill based system, ala weapon and casting skills that gradually increased the more time you spent in that particular climate. This skill could then be augmented with resist gear and non-permanent potions/infusions while your acclimation is building up to help offset the negative effects. There wouldn't be a need to carry bags and bags of equipment, but maybe a few pieces here and there to help during the acclimation process. If my group is camping Ice Giants for several days, I'm not only rewarded with the xp and loot drops, but I'm building up my frigid and possibly wind shear acclimation. This is a direct correlation to my time investment. If crafters can make these and master crafters can make the higher tier ones, then they can't be no-drop. What's to prevent someone from just buying the infustion to circumvent all the work I just put in?
I very much love the concept and think you guys are on the right track. If done right, this is a complete game changer compared to other games on the market. I also know this is a very early iteration of the system and this is not a bash on it. I just hope there is more to the implementation than what was seen yesterday. I appreciate you showing us and don't want to come across ungrateful. I think this can be done without needing a bunch of tedium, but also not being as simple as a one time injection until I need a new injection for a higher tier. I think players would get that feeling of accomplishment more if they were building upon an acclimation skill, rather than just take a shot and be done with it.
Or a simple skill. The more time you spend in a climate (doing something of import), the more skill you get in resist-X. But as I said, I do like the notion of a player being required to consider their environment and adjust accordingly. So it's a mixed bag for me for now.
I feel this system is well thought out, in the respects entering and not entering the areas. If your without these acc augs your not getting in. Similar to a key system, or more or less a pre EQ buff like some of us are used to. Pre req, but not exactly. So far i dont see a level requirement, but maybe we should? due to the teir of each so far mentioned.
This way a lvl 1 cant get past that area without the knowledge of using these ACC augs. Augs maybe the wrong term to use.
I hope i made sence.
If the acclimation system works in a way that we can use it to our advantage then cool, but as it is now, just another something we have to put on our avatar so blah.
If it's something we need to add to our character that is something that needs to be maintain, upgraded, replaced and comes at a cost then cool. We all know by end game, there is too much money floating around so I'm all for a money sink that is worth it.
It it's something we can use when pulling or dealing with hard mobs that would also be cool. We we are pulling Fire Dragons and we move them to a Frost location or something and we have both those acclimation effects on us then it assists in killing the dragon it's a cool idea.
But right now, I just see it as another way for the game to say, "opps, do this for me first before going in here"
Just popping in to say thanks for the great discussion going on here.
The Extreme Climate & Acclimation systems are still being conceptualized with much yet to be implemented. But for the stream, I wanted to get a visual demonstration set up to show the very foundation of both systems.
I like the idea of gaining natural acclimation the more time you spend in a Climate - I want to explore that more.
I also want to emphasize that these infusions (name is subject to change, btw) will be very difficult to come by. As I said in the stream, the most basic ones, which would provide enough Acclimation for a player to survive unhampered in a Tier 1 climate, would be easier to come by and more accesible for players on the whole. The higher tier infusions (Tier 2-5) will be extremely difficult to obtain (through raiding, epic quests) and will likely be non-tradeable.
As far as the role gear will play, it is very likely that resistances from gear will contribute to your Acclimation score. In other words, if my gear has a high amount of Cold resistance, it is likely that some percentage of that overall resistance will contribute to your Frigid Acclimation score while you are wearing those items. Some classes will have abilities that will either improve your Acclimation score for certain Climates, or alter the Climates themselves to make them more accessible.
Keep up the great discussion - we'll be rolling out more details on these systems when they are ready!
Joppa said:Just popping in to say thanks for the great discussion going on here.
The Extreme Climate & Acclimation systems are still being conceptualized with much yet to be implemented. But for the stream, I wanted to get a visual demonstration set up to show the very foundation of both systems.
I like the idea of gaining natural acclimation the more time you spend in a Climate - I want to explore that more.
I also want to emphasize that these infusions (name is subject to change, btw) will be very difficult to come by. As I said in the stream, the most basic ones, which would provide enough Acclimation for a player to survive unhampered in a Tier 1 climate, would be easier to come by and more accesible for players on the whole. The higher tier infusions (Tier 2-5) will be extremely difficult to obtain (through raiding, epic quests) and will likely be non-tradeable.
As far as the role gear will play, it is very likely that resistances from gear will contribute to your Acclimation score. In other words, if my gear has a high amount of Cold resistance, it is likely that some percentage of that overall resistance will contribute to your Frigid Acclimation score while you are wearing those items. Some classes will have abilities that will either improve your Acclimation score for certain Climates, or alter the Climates themselves to make them more accessible.
Keep up the great discussion - we'll be rolling out more details on these systems when they are ready!
In the stream it was asked if you could craft infusions. In your post you seem to be suggesting that only T1 infusions will be craftable and all the others will have to be quested or obtained on raids? I can understand why you'd want the higher tier infusions be really hard to get but couldn't you make them craftable but only if the crafter has an item that drops on a raid for instance or can only be obtained from a quest? That way master crafters will be very useful at the end game and it won't make the infusions too easy to make.
Cromulent said:In the stream it was asked if you could craft infusions. In your post you seem to be suggesting that only T1 infusions will be craftable and all the others will have to be quested or obtained on raids? I can understand why you'd want the higher tier infusions be really hard to get but couldn't you make them craftable but only if the crafter has an item that drops on a raid for instance or can only be obtained from a quest? That way master crafters will be very useful at the end game and it won't make the infusions too easy to make.
Great question - yes, the plan is for a Master Crafstman with the relevant specialization to have the ability to create infusions for all tiers of Climate - offset by the time and dedication needed to achieve the required skill level in their tradeskill and acquiring the rare recipes themselves. And then, as you said, the components required would be just as difficult to come by as it would be for the Adventurer to find the infusion itself.
We're also keen on Crafters being able to improve items, and it is possible a Master Craftsman of this trade could improve the potency of an infusion if the right components were available to him or her.
Makes me wonder what percentage of content will not be gated behind acclimation tiers. 6 different climates, 5 tiers each. I feel like this is their version of "keying" to some degree. Content seems literally not accessible unless you are acclimated to the area. I feel like this is going to be a huge problem when trying to form groups with random players.
I also feel like it a bit of a downer when it comes to exploring, it seems unlikely to be able to explore anything of unique interest that isn't hidden behind a tier 3 pressure wall or whatever else may be the case.
Joppa said:Cromulent said:In the stream it was asked if you could craft infusions. In your post you seem to be suggesting that only T1 infusions will be craftable and all the others will have to be quested or obtained on raids? I can understand why you'd want the higher tier infusions be really hard to get but couldn't you make them craftable but only if the crafter has an item that drops on a raid for instance or can only be obtained from a quest? That way master crafters will be very useful at the end game and it won't make the infusions too easy to make.
Great question - yes, the plan is for a Master Crafstman with the relevant specialization to have the ability to create infusions for all tiers of Climate - offset by the time and dedication needed to achieve the required skill level in their tradeskill and acquiring the rare recipes themselves. And then, as you said, the components required would be just as difficult to come by as it would be for the Adventurer to find the infusion itself.
We're also keen on Crafters being able to improve items, and it is possible a Master Craftsman of this trade could improve the potency of an infusion if the right components were available to him or her.
This whole concept of improving things as a crafter sounds really useful. It'll mean that crafters will always be in demand to improve what other people already have. One of the things that has always worried me somewhat about crafting is that when people start killing the hardest raid mobs and get the best raid loot the game offers people stop needing crafters. If crafters have the ability to improve infusions (and I would guess other items as well?) then they will be needed even by the most hardcore of raiding guilds.
Thanks for the clarification. I'm glad to hear that it sounds like crafters are going to be getting a lot of love in this game.
