Thanks for the link, man. Also enjoyed the blog on Mana Climates mentioned there. In that blog, Joppa states, "Certain classes will have what we call "encounter control" abilities, which include abilities that can conjure or manipulate Mana Climates and Atmospheres." Very cool that players will be able to create and/or change the mana climate as well as the regular climate.
From the December twitch stream:
None of the above is finalized. So take it the above information with a grain of salt.
Xilshale said: Summoner role: climate buff summoned temporary items. Druid role: pbae climate bubbles Enchanter role: chain mez that red con in the druids climate bubble while the party wears the summoned jewelry Hmmm makes me wonder if a druid climate change can screw over or kill the group, friendly fire like? Would add a whole new level of complexity.
Lol. I wouldn't be surprised if Kilsin decided to roll a Druid just to show off his 'skills' in some future twitch stream.
Shucklighter said:Bazgrim said:I'm pretty sure Brad already said in the last stream that this would be possible. Druids will be able to create little auras of safety for their group in an otherwise harmful climate. And conversely, if a mob is vulnerable to a particular climate, a druid can create a pocket of that climate around the mobs to essentially debuff them.
Okay, found it. I think it's Ceythos. He says, "One of the cool things that we're wanting to do beyond crowd control is something that I call 'encounter control', which is when you get into things like atmospheres and environments, certain classes, like a druid for example, may be able to change the actual climate or atmosphere of a given area, which will have adverse effects on ,say, like a boss for example. So, it could be that the boss has some kind of intense frost resistance, some kind of frost shield that's totally impenetrable, or maybe is just highly mitigative, and the druid could come in and change the climate of the room to a scorching climate that would render, for a period of time or for the duration of the fight, that shield much less effective or completely circumvent the effect of the shield."
So we'll probably be able to change the climates and atmospheres, but not sure how big the area of effect will be or how players will 'place' that area of change into the game. This does give me the vibe that this would be an ability that could be used pretty regularly and not be on a long cool down, though.
Yup that's it. I've watched those streams way too many times lol.
I am also under the impression that the affected area will be just big enough to fit around a group's camp without them having to huddle too close (or about the size of a large dragon, for example) and would therefore have a pretty reasonable cooldown. But it would be unnecessary, or even detrimental, for it to affect a whole zone, for example.
I hope the acclimitization system is similar to some of the nuanced gameplay that I enjoy from strategy RPGs. Example: in SRPGs the terrain you're fighting in - mountains vs forest vs plains for example giving a more offensive or defensive advantage often depending on multiple factors, the unit, mobility, skillset, weapon-type, etc. I view the climate system potentially similarly - Fire spells having more effect in a zone like Lavastorm (fire zone) versus Everfrost (ice zone) or maybe the opposite would be true? Anyway, it would be another layer of nuanced strategy in and out of combat that you could get the "most" out of your spells/abilities by taking advantage of the system, while most likely not being completely dealbreaking always if you don't. Obviously just speculation, but I wouldn't want it to be a hinderance with constant consumables or the like either to sustain it where the system just becomes tedious and something to promote Pantheon on being "new" and innovative versus practical.
Raidan said:I hope the acclimitization system is similar to some of the nuanced gameplay that I enjoy from strategy RPGs. Example: in SRPGs the terrain you're fighting in - mountains vs forest vs plains for example giving a more offensive or defensive advantage often depending on multiple factors, the unit, mobility, skillset, weapon-type, etc. I view the climate system potentially similarly - Fire spells having more effect in a zone like Lavastorm (fire zone) versus Everfrost (ice zone) or maybe the opposite would be true? Anyway, it would be another layer of nuanced strategy in and out of combat that you could get the "most" out of your spells/abilities by taking advantage of the system, while most likely not being completely dealbreaking always if you don't. Obviously just speculation, but I wouldn't want it to be a hinderance with constant consumables or the like either to sustain it where the system just becomes tedious and something to promote Pantheon on being "new" and innovative versus practical.
Yeah, I agree to a point with the consumables. I think it'd be perfectly valid to allow a consumable that helps mitigate impacts in lieu of gear the player hadnt yet obtained. This would allow access for a degree of exploration or questing, but not lend itself to typical camping/grinding.
I also wonder if this is a place where consumables could be a good money sink. And I dont mean potions, but rather a spell component. If a druid is going to control the atmosphere/climate in a notable area for a prolonged period of time it doesnt seem unreasonable to me that they consume some casting component. Extend the thinking to multiple classes and you could balance the cost across classes. So druids can effect a poisonous atmosphere, but you need a mage/wizard to deal with fire/frost, or a shaman/necro to deal with disease, or a ranger to deal with movement impairing vines, etc.etc.
Feyshtey said:I also wonder if this is a place where consumables could be a good money sink. And I dont mean potions, but rather a spell component. If a druid is going to control the atmosphere/climate in a notable area for a prolonged period of time it doesnt seem unreasonable to me that they consume some casting component. Extend the thinking to multiple classes and you could balance the cost across classes. So druids can effect a poisonous atmosphere, but you need a mage/wizard to deal with fire/frost, or a shaman/necro to deal with disease, or a ranger to deal with movement impairing vines, etc.etc.
I'm cool with adding reagents to as many abilities as is possible. Love needing reagents. Haha.
Shucklighter said:Feyshtey said:I also wonder if this is a place where consumables could be a good money sink. And I dont mean potions, but rather a spell component. If a druid is going to control the atmosphere/climate in a notable area for a prolonged period of time it doesnt seem unreasonable to me that they consume some casting component. Extend the thinking to multiple classes and you could balance the cost across classes. So druids can effect a poisonous atmosphere, but you need a mage/wizard to deal with fire/frost, or a shaman/necro to deal with disease, or a ranger to deal with movement impairing vines, etc.etc.
I'm cool with adding reagents to as many abilities as is possible. Love needing reagents. Haha.
See: http://pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/4811/wizard-druid-sinks
I've seen that thread, and I've already posted there. I don't think it should be limited to just wizards and druids, though. All classes should get to enjoy stocking up on reagents! Here, I was just saying that I think it's a great idea for abilities that affect the climate or atmosphere to require reagents. Maybe resist-type acclimation buffs should require them also. I'd definitely rather see acclimation buffs that require a reagent than consumable acclimation potions, though perhaps we'll see both.
EDIT: Typo.
People have already mention the Druid to be a class that can thrawt the impact of weather effects. However I'm hoping the Wizard will also be part of this. If Druids are the Masters of Nature then Wizards are the Master of Magic, so for instance in the twitch stream, we saw those purple AOE acclimation effects - Lets (just for the example) call it the psionic acclimation affect. A wizard should be able to counter this in my view.
Like the Druid it provides the Wiz an extra layer in it's play style and remembering EQ a much needed layer of group utility.
In a sentence, Acclimation is a genious idea.
#i shoulda read the whole thread... Seems people have taken this much further with vine affacts being removed by Rangers... #cool idea
From the outside looking in, I think acclimation system and colored mana systems are too complicated to be properly implemented as a minor feature.
I'd rather see just normal climate system where in certain conditions spells receive bonuses, or possibly require you to have a certain buff (say underwater breathing).
As for mana, I'd rather have a simpler system of items/buffs/sigils that grant bonuses to certain types of spells.
kaizer989 said:Just got done watching the December stream and I am extremely excited to play this game. I was wondering what you guys thought about the acclimation system. I know there are a lot of things be to hashed out, but from what I saw on the stream, it seems like an arbitrary handicap that doesn't add much to the game. I like the idea of having different gear for environments, but I got the impression most of acclimation will be gained from consumables, which I'm not too keen on.
I am envisioning having to grind for consumables so I can enter an area without being handicapped for a few hours. I believe this system would be much better if there was a more permanent solution to acclimation. For example, fighting more in a frigid environment passively improves acclimation towards that environment (which kind of makes sense when considering the word "acclimation").
What do you guys think? How do you envision the acclimation system panning out?
I'm almost cetain that specific races will have resistances to different climates. I agree potions and other consumables are a pain to grind for but on the other hand, it does give meaning to some crafting professions which is what VR is aiming for IMO.
Feyshtey said:I actually hope its not a minor system but rather a foundational system the game is built on. Being required to be concious of your environment and adjusting to it accordingly would be a welcome addition to gameplay, IMO.
I agree. I hope you are always quite concerned with which atmospheres and mana climates you are working in.
First off, I just want to give huge props to the dev team on the stream and the progress made. I can't wait to play this game and it can't come out soon enough. Keep up the good work, it's much appreciated by us orphaned MMO players who feel abandoned by what's offered in today's market. That being said, I do have some thoughts on the acclimation system as showed. Granted this is pre-pre-alpha, things are subject to change and we possibly weren't even shown the full scope, but I have some reservations on this system as currently shown.
My thought was that it would be more of a skill based system, similar to building weapon and spell casting skills. Depending on what race I start as, I would have base stats in the different acclimation types. Dwarves having slightly higher starting frigid, Dark Myr possibly for Pressure, etc. Over time spent in these affected areas, my skill (acclimation), would skill up over time. I would probably have the initial debuff for the area and over time, it's effects would diminish until finally I would be acclimated to that tier and possibly either minimally affected or not at all. This skill raising could be augmented by some resists on gear, potions/injections as shown, etc. Say a tier one injection could raise your skill points by 10 permanently, but maybe you could only inject once from each tier to avoid someone just buying a bazillion acclimation injections to get to max skill.
A real life example is I live in NY state. When I travel to Florida during the summer, the heat/humidity affects me as I'm not used to being in that type of environment everyday. However, if I were to move there, over time I would get acclimated to the area and it would eventually become the norm for me. During my acclimation time, my wardrobe would need to change, I'd need to hydrate with water more, etc. I don't just inject myself with something and am now good to go for heat/humidity. I envisioned something similar to this as the in game system you were going for instead of just injecting myself in a certain area and that being it. I think that idea can be part of the larger puzzle, but I feel the system would feel somewhat shallow if that's all it was. I know it was stated it would be harder to get higher tier injections from Master Crafters/Raiding, etc, but it still just boils down to injecting yourself one time until you find the next highest tier injection.
In closing, I think you guys are doing a fantastic job and this isn't meant as anything other than a constructive critique. I feel the base idea for acclimation is very sound and is something that can set you apart from the other games out there, I just feel there is more that can be done with it than what was shown. I absolutely loved the wind buffet effect and the ice graphic around the screen. That was very immersive and it was fantastic. I just wasn't a fan of the injection part of it being the sole way to become acclimated. If there is more to it and we just didn't get the full scope of it today, then happily ignore this post and I'll be ecstatic.
I like how they implemented the acclimation system, it's a permanent boost to the characters porgression and survivability, bags don't fill up with the (possibly) multiple sets of acclimation gear, props to VR.
I know it's still early in the acclimation system and this can change, but I was half expecting it to be a extra set of cloths that you equiped to get yourself acclimated, I still like the "genetic modification" flask infusions that are currently in place, from the gameplay and mechanics stand point the acclimation system is near perfection, having to equiped an extra set of clothes, to me, would give a better sense of proggression and accomplishment, just me being picky sry. Still from a gameplay and mechanic point of view, it's perfect!
Yeah, I'm still hoping to see spells and items play a bigger part of it than they showed us today. The infusions seem a bit too simple, and I'm not sure I like that they are permanent and how easy they are to switch between. I was thinking you could use consumables (which is what I expected these infusions to be) to help in a pinch, but that most of your acclimation would come from gear. Instead, it looks like we have the opposite. I guess we'll see how it evolves.
EDIT: Reworded a parenthetic for clarity.
I am impressed and slightly concerned with the acclimation system as it is now. I like the concept and the idea behind it but they should make it so that those infusions are only active till you log out and stay logged out for 10 minutes or so. I don't like the idea of being able to switch between acclimations at will one I have done it for any tier. I would rather have to keep/buy/use some kind of player crafted potion/consumable item to let me pick which one I want to use and if I want to change the acclimation I ust use another consumable to change. I think that they way that it is done right now would make it way to powerful/easy to manipulate later down the road once people start to hit the end game levels. If all someone had to do was get acclimated to a specific climate and then they could just change it at will like a set of clothes without having to take up space or a consumable that would create an imbalance in my opinion.
Sogotp said:I am impressed and slightly concerned with the acclimation system as it is now. I like the concept and the idea behind it but they should make it so that those infusions are only active till you log out and stay logged out for 10 minutes or so. I don't like the idea of being able to switch between acclimations at will one I have done it for any tier. I would rather have to keep/buy/use some kind of player crafted potion/consumable item to let me pick which one I want to use and if I want to change the acclimation I ust use another consumable to change. I think that they way that it is done right now would make it way to powerful/easy to manipulate later down the road once people start to hit the end game levels. If all someone had to do was get acclimated to a specific climate and then they could just change it at will like a set of clothes without having to take up space or a consumable that would create an imbalance in my opinion.
Well they did say that the first 2 might be easy to obtain but the next ones are hard and only get harder as you progress through the game like the last few they said might be like an epic quests of its own so if you do get it to where you can max out your acclimation in a certain area you deserved it.
Sogotp said:I am impressed and slightly concerned with the acclimation system as it is now. I like the concept and the idea behind it but they should make it so that those infusions are only active till you log out and stay logged out for 10 minutes or so. I don't like the idea of being able to switch between acclimations at will one I have done it for any tier. I would rather have to keep/buy/use some kind of player crafted potion/consumable item to let me pick which one I want to use and if I want to change the acclimation I ust use another consumable to change. I think that they way that it is done right now would make it way to powerful/easy to manipulate later down the road once people start to hit the end game levels. If all someone had to do was get acclimated to a specific climate and then they could just change it at will like a set of clothes without having to take up space or a consumable that would create an imbalance in my opinion.
I agree with Sogotp here. I think when these infusions are permanent and easily changed, the impact the Acclimation system has is trivialized. Right now it feels like it's going to be like, "Oh, I'm going to a cold place. Better click into cold mode."
EDIT: @Riahuf22 Even if the higher tiers -are- extremely difficult to obtain, I think it would be better to have, say, an epic quest which will allow you to -use- that particular infusion. The infusion itself wouldn't need to be permanent.
Shucklighter said:Sogotp said:I am impressed and slightly concerned with the acclimation system as it is now. I like the concept and the idea behind it but they should make it so that those infusions are only active till you log out and stay logged out for 10 minutes or so. I don't like the idea of being able to switch between acclimations at will one I have done it for any tier. I would rather have to keep/buy/use some kind of player crafted potion/consumable item to let me pick which one I want to use and if I want to change the acclimation I ust use another consumable to change. I think that they way that it is done right now would make it way to powerful/easy to manipulate later down the road once people start to hit the end game levels. If all someone had to do was get acclimated to a specific climate and then they could just change it at will like a set of clothes without having to take up space or a consumable that would create an imbalance in my opinion.
I agree with Sogotp here. I think when these infusions are permanent and easily changed, the impact the Acclimation system has is trivialized. Right now it feels like it's going to be like, "Oh, I'm going to a cold place. Better click into cold mode."
EDIT: @Riahuf22 Even if the higher tiers -are- extremely difficult to obtain, I think it would be better to have, say, an epic quest which will allow you to -use- that particular infusion. The infusion itself wouldn't need to be permanent.
This might be true in some peoples opinion, but we have no idea how hard these questes can be you could need 4 groups and do a hard grind that takes a few hours to get somewhere to even complete it and might still have a good chance of failing it and have to get back to your body which in itself could be a nightmare depending on certain things of course, it might seem trivialized now becuase we simply have no idea what it takes to get all the acclimates maxxed out so in itself saying it seem trivialized is premature.
That's true that we don't know everything. I can't argue with that. I'm just saying that to me, it seems like a very, very simple system right now, and that I was looking forward to something much more complicated. You could tell me I need to camp a bunch of mobs with a low chance of spawning every 12 hours, run around Terminus for weeks, and get several rare items from contested raid targets just to get a certain infusion, and I'd still say the same thing based on what was shown to us today. Simple. Better remember to click into cold mode. Just my opinion, of course, like you said.
EDIT: Also, not trying to be negative here. I was very pleased by the stream, and I'm sure Acclimation is still a work-in-progress. I'm just giving feedback on what I saw today.
kaizer989 said:Just got done watching the December stream and I am extremely excited to play this game. I was wondering what you guys thought about the acclimation system. I know there are a lot of things be to hashed out, but from what I saw on the stream, it seems like an arbitrary handicap that doesn't add much to the game. I like the idea of having different gear for environments, but I got the impression most of acclimation will be gained from consumables, which I'm not too keen on.
I am envisioning having to grind for consumables so I can enter an area without being handicapped for a few hours. I believe this system would be much better if there was a more permanent solution to acclimation. For example, fighting more in a frigid environment passively improves acclimation towards that environment (which kind of makes sense when considering the word "acclimation").
What do you guys think? How do you envision the acclimation system panning out?
I hope it gets cut, frankly.
I agree that the acclimation system does seem a little simplistic. The concept - having weather/environment affect players in different ways - is brilliant. The solution, not so much.
But if players aren't able to just "click into" different acclimations after obtaining the relevant infusions (contrary to what is implied in today's stream), I don't think that temporary consumables would be the answer. It's possible that during a long session you might face a variety of these environmental effects. Since everything points to bag space being pretty limited, requiring you to stock up on multiple infusions for multiple environments is not only almost as simplistic as the system demonstrated in the video, but it can seriously impact your ability to carry other items/loot while out adventuring.
Instead, there could be either permanent items that you could equip and/or use for acclimation. For cold, you might be able to put on a fur coat; for anaerobic environments (e.g. underwater) you might use an enchanted item that allows you to breathe there; for toxic ones, some immunity charm; etc. These items could even be tiered just like the environments themselves, such that you would only get the full benefit of acclimation by using/equipping an item of the same or better tier as the environment - say, a tier 3 fur coat would give full benefit in tier 1, 2 and 3 frigid environments, but not tier 4 or 5 ones. Better items could be random loot, epic quest rewards, or improvements of lower-tier ones made by high-level crafters.
Also, these items could interact with other environments. For instance, if you forgot to remove a fur coat going from a frigid to a scorching environment (volcano on top of a snowy mountain, maybe?) then the fur coat would increase the negative effects of the scorching environment. This could be even more interesting with mixed-environment locations. For instance, the fur coat could be the optimal item for frigid and wind-shear environments, but a sorching/wind shear environment would require a different approach given the negative effect of the fur coat. In any case, you would only ever need to carry up to one item for each environment type, possibly fewer if you took items that made you acclimated to several environments simultaneously. As you get higher-tier items, you could sell, discard or store away the lower-tier ones.
Shucklighter said:I've seen that thread, and I've already posted there. I don't think it should be limited to just wizards and druids, though. All classes should get to enjoy stocking up on reagents! Here, I was just saying that I think it's a great idea for abilities that affect the climate or atmosphere to require reagents. Maybe resist-type acclimation buffs should require them also. I'd definitely rather see acclimation buffs that require a reagent than consumable acclimation potions, though perhaps we'll see both.
EDIT: Typo.
Haven't watched the stream yet so I can't comment there, but please for the love of all things keep reagents limited. Utility spells only (Like levitate, water breath, etc) and keep them off of regular spells as much as possible. Nightmares of people asking for the cleric buff that cost 12 plat to cast, it was common enough then and I imagine it would be just as common now that people would forgo even using certain spells to avoid being taxed for them.