Amsai said:Corpse Location, Drag, and Summon, if one or all exist should be spells/abilities to help with interdependence.
Corpse Location: Enchanter, Bard
Corpse Drag: Rogue, Monk
Corpse Summon: Necro, Summoner
I personally don't like the idea of Corpse Drag, specifically, being limited to classes. The idea of having to find another player to do something so simple sounds extremely annoying.
Actually, I don't like the idea of Corpse Drag at all. If it's like EQ, it's going to look extremely cheap in a pretty game like Pantheon to have a body teleporting under a player. If it's going to be done at all it should be done well, with a full suite of animations, and that honestly sounds prohibitive to me.
As an alternative, I'd like to see players rezzed on top of the caster of the spell instead of their body. Furthermore, expanding Corpse Summon to more classes could help negate this.
Please don't limit corpse recovery tools to such an extremely limited number of classes.
Wellspring said:Liav said:With regards to Fog of War:
Every time you create a new character or play on another account, your fog of war gets reset which does absolutely nothing positive for your gameplay if you've already revealed it once. It's a very, very short term gimmick.
Fog of war, is that how the WoW maps were? It's been years since I've played that game, but I recall the map being revealed in sections as you travel to the different areas.
Correct. The map is obfuscated by a texture that is removed from the map in a large radius as the player travels to that area in the world.
Partial maps is kinda interesting. Not opposed to the fog of war either
We could have fog of war for your starting city and local regions/zone, past that, the fog doesn't work and you need maps, whether bought or found (or cartographer skill?) I beleive the fog of war was meant to represent your memory of an area? If you have not been in an area for a long time, the fog of war could creep back in?
As per OP topic though, /loc and corpse summon I hope go into Pantheon, or some form of them
I liked the "where the hell am I" that EQ had, but I think that a lot of that was due to rendering distance in game. My halfling got lost going out to misty thicket time after time, lost the zone line, died to bixies etc because I simply could not see far enough. From what we have seen in Pantheon screenshots, I don't see the issue being the same. As we saw in Amberfaet, you could see a goodly distance, and in outdoor zones could pick out landmarks in the distance to navigate with. I think that is part of the reason why VR doesn't see a need to do maps, they expect us to go out and explore things and discover the huge zones that they have created. We have a map of the world right now that is very general, but already gives a good idea of where things are located. I do get the want of a map, but is it really a need? And will it drive people away from the game if there are none? tbd...
Lol edit to keep on topic: Yes I think /loc in some form should exist, as well as the ability to summon a corpse. I also like the corpse drag idea Liav, make it more realistic and actually have an animation for it, but as you say....resources..
The "where the hell am I" of EQ just can't realistically be recreated, though.
It sucks, but we kind of need to pick our poison:
Do we want 90% of the playerbase alt tabbing to 500 times a day just to navigate the game world, or can we have simple topographical maps built into the user interface?
Take note of the fact that some players won't be playing with Ultra settings (see: Max Rendering Distance) due to performance implications. The way the game looks in the stream looks great for showcasing a product, but your average player with an average rig isn't necessarily going to be seeing for miles.
I could be wrong on the part about rendering distance, but lowering it is generally one of the first performance saving tools used.
Edit: For posterity, no, I do not have a source on the "90% of the playerbase" claim. It is an example. What I do know is that if maps are not provided, they will be provided through third party sources, and frequently alt tabbing to websites for navigational purposes is absolutely awful design. It is the path of least resistance and a staggering number of players will take that route if need be. Pantheon isn't a board game, there's no excuse for not having maps built in, simple as they may be.
*secretly hopes they don't add /loc to make the game more interesting*
:D No maps. \o/
Just want to comment on the people who say that loc is basically invaluable, etc etc
Even without maps in early EQ it was stupidly easy to get around as soon as you understood the graphing and location system. The vast majority of us simply bound a loc maco to every movement key so no matter what you were always hitting loc. It became so easy to know which way you were heading that even once the compass was put in I didn't bother using it.
The only thing not having a map in game is going to do is make those who were not big time EQ players have a disadvantage. We are talking about trying to bring in current day MMO people who have never experienced this type of gameplay. Making things so out dated and difficult to understand will push those people away and for what?
Liav said:The "where the hell am I" of EQ just can't realistically be recreated, though.
I don't know about you, but if I'm playing a game with a map, but no absolute positioning (/loc or a marker for where my character is), then I will absolutely get lost. It may be easy for some to navigate by landmarks, but even then when the light gets low then you better hope you're in a safe place. I was reminded of this recently when playing ARK: Survival Evolved. Although you can at some point in the game get a GPS system, before you do you'll absolutely get the feeling of "where the hell am I?" I lost a number of corpses (with gear and supplies) in that game, never to be found.
Enitzu said:Liav said:Sevens said:I, for one, am tickled pink there wont be maps in game
I too look forward to alt tabbing every 15 seconds so that I can play Pantheon with the five other people who enjoy alt tabbing every 15 seconds.
This is why we run dual monitors :D
I've run into some problems running dual monitors of different refresh rates, so instead maybe I should say I don't look forward to buying another XL2411Z just to facilitate the use of third party maps in one game. :p
shasta said:exactly! I have no issues running a dual monitor to have a map up or to have my second account running to make sure i have "SoW" on me at all times.....
Why not three monitors then? Perhaps a fourth to make sure you have (insert Cleric HP buff of choice) on you at all times?
As a matter of fact, we should just have a separate monitor for chat windows too. Every UI piece gets a separate monitor!
Obviously I'm being a jackass here.
I look forward to playing Pantheon because it diverges from newer games in some ways, however maps just aren't one of the things that I think is worth diverging from. Super detailed maps with quest waypoints? Sure. Altogether though? Nah. Nahhhhhhhhhh.
Liav said:shasta said:exactly! I have no issues running a dual monitor to have a map up or to have my second account running to make sure i have "SoW" on me at all times.....
Why not three monitors then? Perhaps a fourth to make sure you have (insert Cleric HP buff of choice) on you at all times?
As a matter of fact, we should just have a separate monitor for chat windows too. Every UI piece gets a separate monitor!
Obviously I'm being a jackass here.
I look forward to playing Pantheon because it diverges from newer games in some ways, however maps just aren't one of the things that I think is worth diverging from. Super detailed maps with quest waypoints? Sure. Altogether though? Nah. Nahhhhhhhhhh.
Maps will not make or break this game for me. If they are in game, so be it. That just means that i wont have to use a fansite or print off a 3 ring binder full of zone maps at work like EQ1.
ArchMageSalamar said:shasta said:Maps will not make or break this game for me. If they are in game, so be it. That just means that i wont have to use a fansite or print off a 3 ring binder full of zone maps at work like EQ1.
You would bring that up! I miss my old pack of EQ maps.../sigh
LOL! yes! as do i.
Hokanu said: I like the idea of a map that works like a real paper map, you have to work out where are on it and where your going through comparing landmarks on your map and in the world with a sense heading type skill, Upgrading maps detail could be a good money sink from an NPC (relating to the other plat value thread)
I agree that it sounds nice, but I just don't think many would bother if you can just alt tab (or run a second screen) to see a highly detailed map. The number of players who would handicap themselves by using such a feature compared to third party alternatives is almost assuredly small enough to be beneath the development time required.
I think advanced map mechanics like this will shine when VR technology progresses to the point that it becomes necessary to play the game that way.
Of course we get into more detailed arguments then about "well, why not just have the UI contain all of the quest information too since people will alt tab to look for it"? To that, I guess I'd respond that digging for specific information like that is categorically different than accessing rudimentary navigational information.
Liav said:Sevens said:I, for one, am tickled pink there wont be maps in game
I too look forward to alt tabbing every 15 seconds so that I can play Pantheon with the five other people who enjoy alt tabbing every 15 seconds.
Why? there will be a million sites with maps on them, hell EQdiva had all of the world mapped out BEFORE any in game tools were added to support it.
Print them out, put them in a book and use those
Sevens said:Why? there will be a million sites with maps on them, hell EQdiva had all of the world mapped out BEFORE any in game tools were added to support it.
Print them out, put them in a book and use those
It just seems absurd to me. If people are going to use maps anyway, why should we basically be required to alt tab, print **** out, or run a dual monitor setup for it? Instead of suggesting workarounds for a lack of in-game maps, maybe ask yourself why maps are worth excluding in the first place.
There's no excuse for things as archaic as that in a new game. None whatsoever. It's needlessly cryptic.
Invest in paying attention to your surroundings...any landmarks that are close by. That's how we did it..get your sense heading up so you know north, south, east, west. :P No we didn't have GPS hehee
But, a cartography skill where you can make maps ingame..possibly sell copies of those ingame maps to friends, guildies etc...might be a good idea.
Liav said:shasta said:exactly! I have no issues running a dual monitor to have a map up or to have my second account running to make sure i have "SoW" on me at all times.....
Why not three monitors then? Perhaps a fourth to make sure you have (insert Cleric HP buff of choice) on you at all times?
As a matter of fact, we should just have a separate monitor for chat windows too. Every UI piece gets a separate monitor!
Obviously I'm being a jackass here.
I look forward to playing Pantheon because it diverges from newer games in some ways, however maps just aren't one of the things that I think is worth diverging from. Super detailed maps with quest waypoints? Sure. Altogether though? Nah. Nahhhhhhhhhh.
Textbook Reductio ad absurdum
I love my print out maps, also dont really understand the whole tabbing out every 15 min argument either...Never learned the zone? or are you just use to the new mmo games where you just run throught the content in a matter of days so not really needing to learn the zone? Hell to this day I can zone into Guk and make it to any camp or spot in the zone with never once looking at a map