Liav said:Honestly, a lack of an in game map just sounds terrible to me.
Has that been confirmed yet?
Jasper said:Liav said:Honestly, a lack of an in game map just sounds terrible to me.
Has that been confirmed yet?
I agree. I'm not looking for a 100% recreation of EQ with shiny graphics. There are SOME quality of life things we can add to the game and still make it challenging. Having an ingame map, but no minimap would be a great compromise IMO.
Yeah, and I don't even want a map with quest waypoints or any real features.
Just a nice map that displays your location on it.
There is absolutely no reason we should have to alt tab between the client and Fansite#9812374 to know where we're going, because that's pretty much exactly what will happen without maps in game.
I believe there should be maps, but they should be handled like EQ did. City zones and starter zones would be mapped by default. Anything past that is blank. If you want to map a zone you have to go out and map it yourself. Using tools in game you would map a zone. These maps shouldn't be files that are tradable outside the game. Rather have them be in game scrolls one can purchase. I would LOVE a system like that. Explorers could build the best maps and sell them in game, rewarding them for their hard work and detail. Adds a needed feature but in a way that would buld the community.
How they might implement this I have no idea, but would be awesome.
In any case, a map is most certainly a modern gaming must, but the maps need to be built by the community. However they are distributed, in game or outside the game either way.
Liav said:Honestly, a lack of an in game map just sounds terrible to me.
Has that been confirmed yet?
Why do you want a map?
They've talked about it before, although I do not have a direct quote off-hand. But maybe this will help? It's not an official source, but I assume the author based his wiki from direct information from VR.
Will there be ingame maps?
No, but there will be a world map that shows approximately where on the continent you are.
Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/PantheonMMO/wiki/index
Wellspring said:Why do you want a map?
Already answered that above.
Wellspring said:They've talked about it before, although I do not have a direct quote off-hand. But maybe this will help?
Will there be ingame maps?
No, but there will be a world map that shows approximately where on the continent you are.
Damnit.
Our characters can use magic, but are dumbfouned when it comes to their location? Can slay a dragon, but can't tell up from down? Travel the seas, but apparently just hoped we land in the right location? So they can tell their location from outer space but can't determine their location right next to them?
kellindil said:I believe there should be maps, but they should be handled like EQ did. City zones and starter zones would be mapped by default. Anything past that is blank. If you want to map a zone you have to go out and map it yourself. Using tools in game you would map a zone. These maps shouldn't be files that are tradable outside the game. Rather have them be in game scrolls one can purchase. I would LOVE a system like that. Explorers could build the best maps and sell them in game, rewarding them for their hard work and detail. Adds a needed feature but in a way that would buld the community.
How they might implement this I have no idea, but would be awesome.
In any case, a map is most certainly a modern gaming must, but the maps need to be built by the community. However they are distributed, in game or outside the game either way.
I love that idea of mapping it your self with ingame tools. Kinda like you would if you were actually exploring something for the first time maybe even be able to share your map or points on your map with other people. You would actually have to be next to the person and maybe use a click, share map, option. You would of course have those people whom would have faulty or wrong maps lol!
Or maybe even a fog of war map system. It's concealed until you actually travel that area. Make the areas revealed a small portion so you would actually have to travel to see those on the map. But I wouldn't make it so you couldnt be ported or summoned somewhere you haven't been to before.
Wellspring said:Liav said:Honestly, a lack of an in game map just sounds terrible to me.
Has that been confirmed yet?
Why do you want a map?
They've talked about it before, although I do not have a direct quote off-hand. But maybe this will help? It's not an official source, but I assume the author based his wiki from direct information from VR.
Will there be ingame maps?
No, but there will be a world map that shows approximately where on the continent you are.
Remember, this is all still subject to change. VR could decide to add maps later in the dev cycle. Nothing is set in stone yet. We can just sit back and hope.
shasta said:Or maybe even a fog of war map system. It's concealed until you actually travel that area. Make the areas revealed a small portion so you would actually have to travel to see those on the map. But I wouldn't make it so you couldnt be ported or summoned somewhere you haven't been to before.
If its a fog of war type of deal where the map was made by VR then the map needs to be rather plain. Maybe shows roads and buildings on the roads but not much else. Some slight coloration to show a vague sense of topology.
I don't like the idea of player-created maps. The situation with maps in EQ is quite honestly terrible, and always has been.
Here's what happens:
Maps stored locally:
1. One person who's skilled at it ends up making maps for everyone, and you download a .zip package every time a new expansion comes out. Super compelling gameplay. This is how EQ works and has worked.
Maps stored serverside:
1. Maps become character bound, you lose them if you log into another character on the same account.
OR
1. Maps become account bound, you lose them if you log into another account.
2. VR wastes a disgusting amount of storage space, likely even with compression, by saving every map a player ever makes.
Liav said:With regards to Fog of War:
Every time you create a new character or play on another account, your fog of war gets reset which does absolutely nothing positive for your gameplay if you've already revealed it once. It's a very, very short term gimmick.
Fog of war, is that how the WoW maps were? It's been years since I've played that game, but I recall the map being revealed in sections as you travel to the different areas.
Maybe something along the lines of a passive cartography skill(that may or may not have active components to it). And if the character is carrying the appropriate tradeskill items (parchment/pen/compass?) it can automatically chart out the zone. It can increase with use same as sense heading increases with use. This would encourage exploration and also further increase cartography skill which could add more detail to the maps as the skill went up. These maps could be sold to other players.
kellindil said:
I believe there should be maps, but they should be handled like EQ did. City zones and starter zones would be mapped by default. Anything past that is blank. If you want to map a zone you have to go out and map it yourself. Using tools in game you would map a zone. These maps shouldn't be files that are tradable outside the game. Rather have them be in game scrolls one can purchase. I would LOVE a system like that. Explorers could build the best maps and sell them in game, rewarding them for their hard work and detail. Adds a needed feature but in a way that would buld the community.
How they might implement this I have no idea, but would be awesome.
In any case, a map is most certainly a modern gaming must, but the maps need to be built by the community. However they are distributed, in game or outside the game either way.
That sounds like a neat idea for a tradeskill, but you'd eventually end up with a situation where everyone has maps anyway.
ArchMageSalamar said:Maybe something along the lines of a passive cartography skill(that may or may not have active components to it). And if the character is carrying the appropriate tradeskill items (parchment/pen/compass?) it can automatically chart out the zone. It can increase with use same as sense heading increases with use. This would encourage exploration and also further increase cartography skill which could add more detail to the maps as the skill went up. These maps could be sold to other players.
Also an interesting idea. You could also have maybe a map-reading skill that works with whatever tradeskill could come out of Kellindil's idea, but if the skill goes up quickly/easily, everyone will have maps. If the skill is difficult to advance, you'll know the zones by the time you map them anyway.
Cartography was a good idea in EQ. But we all quickly learned just how dumb it was. Pretty soon after a month or so, you just went to EQAtlas and downloaded the map pack then bam you had every zone. It's a waste of resources.
Just put a plain map in game and no mini map. Adding in a whole system that 95% of the playerbase won't even bother with is a waste of time and energy.
I would like to weigh in and say that my personal ideal would be to have a fog of war style world map (reveals large areas as you find them) without the player location listed on it. I have never had to actively work to navigate in any game I've played that has a mini map or world map with the player's location listed on it. In fact, I would actually like /loc not to be removed (an opinion I expect most won't share). The majority of the use of /loc I think falls into one of these categories...
1) To find your groupmates. This has been replaced by the arrows in the party window.
2) To announce the location of a mob or object. This can be accomplished through other means: South of X-roads type thing or even grouping with whoever and leading them to the spot.
3) If you're about to die and aren't quite sure where you've ended up. I think that having some corpse tracking system in game would be a better solution (pay for a 1 time use bone charm or something).
4) Using an external map to get your exact location. If the devs are trying to avoid telling you where exactly you are in the world, then this seems like a unintended backdoor.
If I get lost in the world, then I want to try and look at my surroundings, compare them to a map, and discern where I am from the scenery and features within the game. I can understand completely if this sounds purely tedious to others though.
Edit: Oh, I forgot that the OP talked about corpse summon. I would argue that corpse summoning warrants a whole discussion itself, but is extremely dependant upon death penalty mechanics.
Thinking about it...maps arent the problem and never were. GPS is the problem. It's the same with RL today when you consider using an atlas vs using google maps.
I would be behind having a world and large area maps but with no indication of where you are on it and no minimap.
