bigdogchris said:The one thing about dailies I didn't mention is that it takes away from the point of the game. You don't want people logging in to just do the dailies for 30 minutes then log out until the next day. That's not kind of game they are developing here. I had a friend that played EQ like that; logged in and killed quickly while rest bonuses were up then logged out. It was towards the end of their EQ life and I think that kind of playstyle eventually leads to leaving the game.
You want to keep people engaged. Even though they may not have time to play more than 30-60 minutes a day, you want them to leave wanting more play time. If people only log in to do the dailies and don't want to stay on more than that then there's something going on with their feelings about the game.
I like what Bigdogchris said here. Sums it up pretty well for me. That's how dailies make me feel. At that point you're basically on life-support or you're out of your mind and taking 30 pills a day to survive. Cleaner just to end it.
I also like the idea Jimmayus had about tavern games. Talk to Rothfuss and get Tak in PRF!
Jimmayus said:Would very much prefer to see instead a large variety of "for the hell of it skills". Things like learning oter races' languages, maybe horse husbandry, orienteering, hell it doesn't really matter. Make those grinds of comical length and it'll keep people occupied in ways that make much more sense than arbitrary time locks. I'd much rather they even do things like create basic tavern games at in-game inns so people could hang out and play Terminus-chess or darts or something together.
I would love tavern games and learning languages by listen to others.
SWTOR really missed the boat with all their casinos and not one playable Sabbac game.
The main reason I do not currently play MMO's are daily quests and the fact the most of them are not fun imo anymore either because developers are following the ten year old model of offering players dailies instead of actual meaningful game content.
Dailies are a way for game makers to rest on their laurels, something no game creator should ever do imo.
If I saw dailies in pantheon it would ruin the experience to the point that I doubt I would continue as a player (other than the innocent non-gamechanging types like the muffin quest for faction etc in freeport in everquest for instance, or crafting repeatables - not dailies, but repeatable to a degree)
tldr?
Dailies in game = I quit.
Emphatically no.
- Edited for spelling fail.
Dailies are a deal break with a game IMO. I cannot stand being forced to spend 2-3 hours a day grinding out a damn quest over and over to get faction or to be allowed to use a mount or whatever you may have.
If the game is fun, there are multiple avenues to spend your time, ie trade skills, weapon skills, quests, xp grinds, farming drops and the list can go on, there is no need to force people into a cycle of wrist slitting monotony just to fill their time in game.
PLEASE never consider dailies.
If dailies are required in order to get people to log into the game, then the developer is doing something wrong. Dailies are part of the reason I stopped playing some of my favorite mmos. I do not like feeling like I am obligated to finish preset tasks, and these little "to do" lists do nothing but irritate me. Another thought, please do not implement a daily log in reward, if the game is not fun enough to log in on a daily basis, then there is a problem.
VitaKorp3n said:If dailies are required in order to get people to log into the game, then the developer is doing something wrong. Dailies are part of the reason I stopped playing some of my favorite mmos. I do not like feeling like I am obligated to finish preset tasks, and these little "to do" lists do nothing but irritate me. Another thought, please do not implement a daily log in reward, if the game is not fun enough to log in on a daily basis, then there is a problem.
Agreed. As I said earlier, I'm not fond of dailies at all. Not so much for the idea as the execution. If you look at a game like Star Wars The Old Republic just to draw a name, look at just how much of the gameplay after a certain level revolves around dailies. There are multiple planets of them. You need to do them to get marks for crafting recipes, dyes, gear, cosmetics. It's a bit nutty the sheer number of them I was doing before I stopped playing. And you kind of have to do those because that's really the normal content for day to day.
I mean...just look.
http://swtor.wikia.com/wiki/Daily_Missions
In that case the execution was the gameplay and community.
Dailies have really just become a checklist of boring things that you need to get done. And about the time you finish that list "finally", here comes some new content (and I use that term loosely) loaded with more dailies.
That sounds harsh, I know. But it's just lazy game design. I'd rather have dungeons or something to try and get these items from rather than having to go through a boring checklist every day in such a way that bringing friends along only seems to be a hidrance. And though I'd still bring them, it's that soprt of design that has pushed the genre more towards being Massively Single-player Online Games rather than a more cooperative one.
I understand some people cannot play more than 30-60 minutes a day and having something to do solo is good every now and then, I need that as well for quick play days, though I prefer longer grouping sessions. I also understand how having daily grinds can hurt the game, as I explained earlier in this thread. But can we find a middle ground? I don't want minor/solo quest to reset so that you can do them over and over, but I don't think it would completely hurt the game to have something similar in the game.
I mentioned this in another thread, but say you could have a "missive board" in each starting town where NPC's are asking for help. These would be Pantheon's version of a solo quest. There would be many but they are level locked so you may only do 1 or 2 a level and they would be simple "Kill 10 boars" or similar, but at least something to do. They would unlock as you gain levels. If you are friendly faction with other starting races, you can also do the missive board quest in those cities as well.
I think this idea would find a perfect middle ground between not repeating the same quest every day, but at least give players something to do solo once in awhile. Once you completed the quest for that level you have to level up through grouping or just normal soloing to unlock the next quest.
This system is different than quest grinding like in WoW because these would be done quickly and you can't repeat them. Also, Pantheon is going from quality over quantity so the chances are all other quest in game are going to be group based or longer quest, not grindy solo quest. Players will still have to group for experience as the primary advancement. Looking back, even Vanguard had a lot of WoW style quest for solo play. I think it was a bit overdone in that game and would like to go back to EQ quality of quest.
bigdogchris said:I understand some people cannot play more than 30-60 minutes a day and having something to do solo is good every now and then, I need that as well for quick play days, though I prefer longer grouping sessions. I also understand how having daily grinds can hurt the game, as I explained earlier in this thread. But can we find a middle ground? I don't want minor/solo quest to reset so that you can do them over and over, but I don't think it would completely hurt the game to have something similar in the game.
I think game like Rift, Guild Wars 2, Warhammer Online, and what would have been with EverQuest Next were on to something here. What I would prefer to see over daily quests are random in-game events that can occur throughout the game in any zone. Take RIFT's invasion event system for example. It would be much more fun and engaging to have something like a zone invasion event to do rather than a daily quest. You just need something that fits Pantheon's lore and learn from the early mistakes that Trion made with the system and tweak it to fit the difficulty of the number of players and levels involed. That is to say make it scale and give some incentive to take part. That can be in the form of loot, a buff, or the opening of a sealed dungeon or something like that for successfully repelling the attack.
On the flipside, failure may result in the loss of a town that will need to be retaken in a future event or some other penalty like reduced experience gains or mobs seal off a dungheon entrance.
I really liked what EQN had discussed about their intentions for mob AI and zone conflict. Whether they could have pulled that off or not is another thing entirely. But it would be great to see Pantheon be able to pick that ball up and ruin with it a bit.
There's a lot of great ideas that could fit Pantheon comfortably and add to the setting of the world to give it a dynamic nature. Sadly VR may not have the time nor budget to put systems like this in to place at the moment. But one can dream right?
I mentioned this in another thread, but say you could have a "missive board" in each starting town where NPC's are asking for help. These would be Pantheon's version of a solo quest. There would be many but they are level locked so you may only do 1 or 2 a level and they would be simple "Kill 10 boars" or similar, but at least something to do. They would unlock as you gain levels. If you are friendly faction with other starting races, you can also do the missive board quest in those cities as well.I think this idea would find a perfect middle ground between not repeating the same quest every day, but at least give players something to do solo once in awhile. Once you completed the quest for that level you have to level up through grouping or just normal soloing to unlock the next quest.
This system is different than quest grinding like in WoW because these would be done quickly and you can't repeat them. Also, Pantheon is going from quality over quantity so the chances are all other quest in game are going to be group based or longer quest, not grindy solo quest. Players will still have to group for experience as the primary advancement. Looking back, even Vanguard had a lot of WoW style quest for solo play. I think it was a bit overdone in that game and would like to go back to EQ quality of quest.
I'm not someone that will scream no solo content at all. Being someone that prefers to group in MMOs, even I can acknowledge the need for a small portion of solo content. What you're describing isn't a big deal in and of itself to be included as it doesn't do what so many other games have done and that is take that to the extreme. In some games you can find boards loaded with quests along with every Bob and Sally on a street corner. Hence the quest hub to quest hub way of progression. I think that there will most likely be some solo quiests in the game, but for the most part quests will will probably remain few, and many of them may keep to being group-based.
bigdogchris said:I mentioned this in another thread, but say you could have a "missive board" in each starting town where NPC's are asking for help. These would be Pantheon's version of a solo quest. There would be many but they are level locked so you may only do 1 or 2 a level and they would be simple "Kill 10 boars" or similar, but at least something to do. They would unlock as you gain levels. If you are friendly faction with other starting races, you can also do the missive board quest in those cities as well.
I think this idea would find a perfect middle ground between not repeating the same quest every day, but at least give players something to do solo once in awhile. Once you completed the quest for that level you have to level up through grouping or just normal soloing to unlock the next quest.
I understand where you are coming from here, but I just don't feel that you should need a "quest" to tell you to go kill 10 boars. Why can't you just decide to go kill 10 boars on your own, or 37, for xp or vendor fodder?
bigdogchris said:Also, Pantheon is going from quality over quantity so the chances are all other quest in game are going to be group based or longer quest, not grindy solo quest. Players will still have to group for experience as the primary advancement. Looking back, even Vanguard had a lot of WoW style quest for solo play. I think it was a bit overdone in that game and would like to go back to EQ quality of quest.
I agree with this. More quality, less quantity. A "quest" should feel like just that...a quest, or an adventure. Something more meaningful. I'm not saying that there should be zero short single zone quests, but I don't want to be able to go from level 1 to max just doing quests. I know you are not saying that's what you want either ;P but I think the devs, and our community for that matter, should strive to "break" new comers from the mindset that they need a quest to have something to do, or to tell them what to do. We need to reintroduce "choice." Bring back the sandbox where you can do what you want, where you want without being "wrong." You can kill boars because they are easy and decent xp, you can kill gobbies because they drop hides for spell research, you can kill giants because they drop a lot of coin, etc. I just don't think we should always have a quest to tell us to.
As I have said earlier in this thread, I don't think we should have any quests that change or refresh because the time says 12:01 am. If we want rotating or changing quests, they should be lore or event driven, not time driven. At that point, they cease being "dailies." Maybe you can take part in a local conflict between a city and an orc/gnoll/goblin/etc. clan and the city offers rewards for killing baddies until a hidden number of total baddies have been killed by the server as a whole, bringing about the next "stage" of the event, whatever that may be.
I think there is room for some amount of changing quests or bounties in this game as long as it makes sense from the point of view of the inhabitants of the game world. You can call this difference between traditional WoW or SWTOR dailies an "implementation" issue, but I think if you eliminate the arbitrary time factor and base it on lore/events/story, you can't really call them dailies anymore, just better content.
I hate daily quests and i wont do them.. its the most boring thing when you can only play afew hours a day.. like in WoW even now i legion lets say you can play 1h a day... you do dailyes in 45min and then 15min left.. because atleast for me i feel like i have to do the daily quests to comepete with the faction reputation race or whatever it might be..
Id rather have mobs that give you a small amount of rep or some items you can turn in for reputation that you can farm.. i know the people with more time can just do that instead in afew days but i rather have that.. it also adds to creating populaur max level grinding spots/farm spots and thats always fun aswelll.. like in tyrs hand in vanilla wow.. i farmed there almost everyday and some days there was to many of the enemy faction so i had to leave or call for friends/guildies to help me out.. World PvP like that is always fun and if you dont think so play on the PvE server :) we already know we will have both.. not sure how factions will work yet tho.
What if instead of dailies, players could create missions for players services? Like say, a set of crafted gear, or a vast array of player made potions or a set of weapons. You could send this mission to somone directly in the form of a pop up message on screen or via mailbox and you could choose to accept or deny. Once denied you can not send again that day unless the suppler allows you to. Player missions might be a new an interesting way to see what people want from the community and the option to tip would be cool too if you feel like they went above and beyond the call of duty.
This is just an idea.
Beefcake said:What are your thought on daily quests for faction grinds, XP, cash, etc?
Daily's aren't something I personally like. I find them to be pushing me to play the game every day or miss a batch of daily rewards. I know there are some people out there who like daileys, I just don't like them myself. Now if dailys required groups and they weren't dailys, they were WEEKLYs, i'd like it better.
-Todd
Tatertoad said:I'll make a devil's advocate case for 'daily' quest / task content. Suppose that they would be implemented only in the context of the lore of the game and perhaps also the economy. For instance, if an NPC guild or faction needs a certain amount of herbs to maintain their healing services provided to players for a fee. Or if the fighter's guild / smithing guild / etc needs a certain amount of refined ore periodically to maintain their armory, and they also charge for repairs / training / equipment. I wouldn't have a huge problem with what is effectively a daily limit on how much one character could pursue these type of activities, nor would I have a big problem with a robust economy that involved NPC's for some functions.
This may be a minority view and that's fine. Maybe there is no middle ground here; if that is the case I'm fine with it too but I am interested in what the other patrons here think.
I like the out of the box thinking here, making it a required mechanic to get NPC services. But, I am against the limit. My wife likes crafting and playing a healer. She is a healer because she gets tons of group invites and then she heals while her favorite thing takes place socializing.
But as a busy homemaker and working woman half of her game is logging in and gathering and crafting when she only has limited time or is multitasking and keeps going AFK. She loved crafting in ArcheAge but was pissed that she had a limit. And then again the difficulty of mechanics in Black Desert. She is a huge fan of EQ and VG and their style of gameplay and is super excited for Pantheon.
She will quit after a month or so if there is a game mechanic limit to crafting such as labor points or shop supply.The only way I think they would work is for when you are working faction because you don't want to do cash or items that affect gameplay.
You want people to earn cash and items from adventuring and slaying mobs. Just my opinion I see the positive and the negatives in dailies and I am okay with leaving them out of the game until the second or third expansion so the core game is good and the system can be well developed.
Two options I'd much prefer be implemented rather than daily quests:
NPC guilds/factions token merchant: Example: A human warrior guild has a merchant that accepts badges worn by a particular Orc clan that populates a dungeon area. This encourages grouping up and exploring this particular dungeon, which players can then roll on these badges and turn them in to the NPC guild merchant for increased faction or special items.
Weekly quests: Dailies provide too much of a pressure (no one wants to feel like their favorite game is a chore, and those with time constraints will feel like they have to choose between dailies or doing other content); weekly quests that fit into the lore of the world are more appropriate. The world is alive, and towns/cities have needs for consumable resources, whether that's harvestables or finding gear in dungeons that can be repurposed for use by the NPC guards/military. Or even sending a strike team into an enemy lair to take out the inevitable new leadership enemy factions will be putting into place to keep them off-balance.
"No" to dailies, however.
I'm in the same camp as Sicario on this one.Party times <3
Each faction could have a weekly contractboard in their townhall,announcing which mob will give extra reputation for the week or month.
If they are going to have monthies in Pantheon,I'd rather have them as a one-time thing.To keep them as diverse as possible and avoid repetition.
Will Pantheon have seasons?Just like for gardners ,each season might then come with other challenges and other types of monthlies.Like in the autumn, gardeners have to clear the park of the fallen leaves And in the winter a gardner has to clear the roads of snow. could add a lot of replayability and change to an ingame area.
Some monthlies could be related to faction growth or the ongoing events
Like the Myr need to find the trident in a month or the Kraken is released
Fluffy said:I'm in the same camp as Sicario on this one.Party times <3
Each faction could have a weekly contractboard in their townhall,announcing which mob will give extra reputation for the week or month.
If they are going to have monthies in Pantheon,I'd rather have them as a one-time thing.To keep them as diverse as possible and avoid repetition.
Will Pantheon have seasons?Just like for gardners ,each season might then come with other challenges and other types of monthlies.Like in the autumn, gardeners have to clear the park of the fallen leaves And in the winter a gardner has to clear the roads of snow. could add a lot of replayability and change to an ingame area.
Some monthlies could be related to faction growth or the ongoing events
Like the Myr need to find the trident in a month or the Kraken is released
Please no daily/weekly quests or time-gated quests/currencies for that matter. The artificial barriers suck so hard: in FFXIV does this to keep people logging in daily/weekly and it genuinely feels like a very obvious carrot on a stick just to keep people playing until the next content update. It's lazy and if that is what you have to do to keep players playing your game then the game itself isn't engaging enough or the design is flawed.
In a stream I saw they did mention they are not going to do anything to prevent kill stealing ,as you'd automatically get a bad name.
Some mystery solving puzzles to uncover a hidden passage,finding a character like M'aiq the liar in elderscrolls
or component gathering to build something cool will have to do then as monthlies I suppose
Iksar said:Please no daily/weekly quests or time-gated quests/currencies for that matter. The artificial barriers suck so hard: in FFXIV does this to keep people logging in daily/weekly and it genuinely feels like a very obvious carrot on a stick just to keep people playing until the next content update. It's lazy and if that is what you have to do to keep players playing your game then the game itself isn't engaging enough or the design is flawed.
In my example, I definitely was not thinking of that being a time-gated thing. That would be permanent. As for being wary of weekly quests, I understand your concerns, but given proper integration into the lore of the world and the life of the world/its NPCs, I can see them having a place in Pantheon. I agree regarding dailies, though. I don't see much benefit in their implementation.
Fluffy said:I'm in the same camp as Sicario on this one.Party times <3
Each faction could have a weekly contractboard in their townhall,announcing which mob will give extra reputation for the week or month.
If they are going to have monthies in Pantheon,I'd rather have them as a one-time thing.To keep them as diverse as possible and avoid repetition.
Will Pantheon have seasons?Just like for gardners ,each season might then come with other challenges and other types of monthlies.Like in the autumn, gardeners have to clear the park of the fallen leaves And in the winter a gardner has to clear the roads of snow. could add a lot of replayability and change to an ingame area.
Some monthlies could be related to faction growth or the ongoing events
Like the Myr need to find the trident in a month or the Kraken is released
Maybe it's just me, but my first thought after reading this was "But wait ... I WANT the Kraken to be released!" Unless of course the Kraken is an untargetable mob that just runs rampant all over the zone causing different types of atmospheric disruption. Or maybe it is targetable, and even killable, but doesen't drop anything. That's the only way it would make sense for people to try and prevent it from spawning. For the most part though ... if there is ever an opportunity to "Release the Kraken!" I'm hoping that it would be an event that we WOULD want to happen. Sure it's going to wreak havoc and cause all kinds of problems ... the more havoc the better, IMO. That makes it all the more enjoyable when adventurers band together to kill it!
Another idea for dailies would be to unlock certain content after you complete so many dailies, rather than just an individual reward. Create dailies in a bunch of different zones, and adventurers must choose which area they want to focus on unlocking first. Something like this could bring the community together for a common goal rather than people fighting over spawns to complete their own quest. The Kraken is a perfect example. After 1,000 or X amount of these "daily" quests are turned in, an area is opened up, something is released, etc. I think something like this would be much cooler than just grinding for faction or tokens everyday.
I'd love there to be a Month of the Griffin so I can get a chance to tame one as my cuddle <3
oneADseven said:if there is ever an opportunity to "Release the Kraken!" I'm hoping that it would be an event that we WOULD want to happen. Sure it's going to wreak havoc and cause all kinds of problems ... the more havoc the better, IMO. That makes it all the more enjoyable when adventurers band together to kill it!
Another idea for dailies would be to unlock certain content after you complete so many dailies, rather than just an individual reward. Create dailies in a bunch of different zones, and adventurers must choose which area they want to focus on unlocking first. Something like this could bring the community together for a common goal rather than people fighting over spawns to complete their own quest. The Kraken is a perfect example. After 1,000 or X amount of these "daily" quests are turned in, an area is opened up, something is released, etc. I think something like this would be much cooler than just grinding for faction or tokens everyday.
Maybe each race could have a titan guardian they can summon if they work together for a month to summon it?
There would be a ritual in a dungeon that can only be interacted with during certain months.So if more than 20m get together at that time required for the ritual in the open world dungeon
they can unlock the ancient door with greater dangers hidden behind it.
Fluffy said:I'd love there to be a Month of the Griffin so I can get a chance to tame one as my cuddle <3
oneADseven said:if there is ever an opportunity to "Release the Kraken!" I'm hoping that it would be an event that we WOULD want to happen. Sure it's going to wreak havoc and cause all kinds of problems ... the more havoc the better, IMO. That makes it all the more enjoyable when adventurers band together to kill it!
Another idea for dailies would be to unlock certain content after you complete so many dailies, rather than just an individual reward. Create dailies in a bunch of different zones, and adventurers must choose which area they want to focus on unlocking first. Something like this could bring the community together for a common goal rather than people fighting over spawns to complete their own quest. The Kraken is a perfect example. After 1,000 or X amount of these "daily" quests are turned in, an area is opened up, something is released, etc. I think something like this would be much cooler than just grinding for faction or tokens everyday.
Maybe each race could have a titan guardian they can summon if they work together for a month to summon it?
There would be a ritual in a dungeon that can only be interacted with during certain months.So if more than 20m get together at that time required for the ritual in the open world dungeonthey can unlock the ancient door with greater dangers hidden behind it.
Sounds good to me. I am much more in favor of a system that encourages players to work together toward a common goal when it comes to repeatable/daily/weekly quests. Whether that's unlocking a dungeon, releasing an NPC, adding new inventory to vendors in a certain area, or something else. Make the reward something that can be shared by everybody in that region. I really liked how FFXI had 3 separate city factions that a player could choose from ... and every so often their total favor (players of this faction completing certain quests, making sacrifices, claiming territories, etc) would be analyzed. The city with the most favor at that time would have extra benefits for anybody that was pledged to their faction. A week or however long later, the global favor of all 3 cities would be recalculated. One issue I remember with the system is that one specific city (think it was Uldah on my server) seemed to lock down being the most favored for the majority of the game. This would probably be tough to balance as there will always be a certain race or city that attracts more players and thus give them an insurmountable advantage in the global competition.
Also not a fan of "dailies." They're make the skinner box a bit too blatent. Very transactional. There are lots of good arguments for my position already in this thread. I'll simply add that I don't see "dailies" being very compatible with the whole philosophy exemplified by the perception system.