I wouldn't say I hate dailies and would most definitely do them if they exists. I just find their design to be poor. Creating poor time constraints in the name of longevity is not something I've ever been a fan of. Although it could result in the same time constraints I would rather remove the daily aspect of it and lower the reward while allowing the player to do these repeatable quests indefinitely.
That being said. a lot of dailies make sense. Lore wise, and for their intention. I think where some games have made dailies look like an issue is when they become basically the only content to do, so then you are left with nothing to do except logout till the next day.
Eliseus said:I wouldn't say I hate dailies and would most definitely do them if they exists. I just find their design to be poor. Creating poor time constraints in the name of longevity is not something I've ever been a fan of. Although it could result in the same time constraints I would rather remove the daily aspect of it and lower the reward while allowing the player to do these repeatable quests indefinitely.
That being said. a lot of dailies make sense. Lore wise, and for their intention. I think where some games have made dailies look like an issue is when they become basically the only content to do, so then you are left with nothing to do except logout till the next day.
Everyone able to play any notable amount of time is going to reach this point though. There's a finite amount of content and will always be until trully dynamic AI-based games that change based on player actions exist. Dailies are nothing more than a carrot to do the same thing over and over, with the illusion that there's still content being consumed. The point is, it's an illusion. It's the same crap over and over. Repeatable quests are the same thing, minus the illusion that you're actually getting somewhere new.
Feyshtey said:
I dont mind the notion of repeatable quests. I mind the notion that a quest is on some arbitrary timer and that you can't turn in 2 sets of 8 deathfist belts back to back, and that somehow my reputation with the dwarves hinges on only handing those in 8 per day. For that matter, I mind the notion that I have to go talk to someone to get permission to run out and get 8 deathfist belts, bring them back, and then wait to ask for permission to go get 8 more. If I find 8 while in the world, even if I dont have any clue what they are for, I should be able to pick them up and then stumble across someone later that says "Hey, those belts you got there, I'll take em off your hand for X coin if you're interested."
You give horrible "WoW like" examples of what dailies are. That is a very limited view of what is being discussed. It is unfortunate that most people in this thread seem to think dailies have to be implemented that way. Dailies don't have to be repeatable quests!
Please see my post on the previous page. Dailies can...and should...be so much more than you described.
philo said:Feyshtey said:I dont mind the notion of repeatable quests. I mind the notion that a quest is on some arbitrary timer and that you can't turn in 2 sets of 8 deathfist belts back to back, and that somehow my reputation with the dwarves hinges on only handing those in 8 per day. For that matter, I mind the notion that I have to go talk to someone to get permission to run out and get 8 deathfist belts, bring them back, and then wait to ask for permission to go get 8 more. If I find 8 while in the world, even if I dont have any clue what they are for, I should be able to pick them up and then stumble across someone later that says "Hey, those belts you got there, I'll take em off your hand for X coin if you're interested."
You give horrible "WoW like" examples of what dailies are. That is a very limited view of what is being discussed. It is unfortunate that most people in this thread seem to think dailies have to be implemented that way. Dailies don't have to be repeatable quests!
Please see my post on the previous page. Dailies can...and should...be so much more than you described.
I understand what you said perfectly well. "Daily Quest" being a questgiver that changes the task he provides on a day to day basis, or different stages of a quest are actionable.
The end result of this is still a pre-defined set of quests. Eventually a player with notable time on their hands will have consumed them, and will reach a point at which they start repeating them. You've altered the perception, but you havent elminated the root of the problem ; people consuming all the content. This is an inevitabiility, and not a flaw with your plan or any other, really. But it's still an illusion.
You've also not addressed many (if any) of the irritating things about the philosophy of "daily" quests.
It's still a guy at a place that predictably hands out a quest that you then go complete. A developer still has to create the quest, but you dont consume any time, energy or thought in discovering the quest. You just run up to a guy to get a task you know will be there because an arbitrary amount of time has passed.
It's still a quest that has no real meaning to any notable storyline or backstory, while doing so in a gimmicky fasion that screams in your face that you're playing whackamole rather than experiencing a living breathing gameworld.
If your deepest issue is that you hate running out of content, all you've done is provide a predictable carrot for you to log in and do day after day, without really helping you in any real way. Presumably if you've consumed all other content, you're already max level, you're already max-geared, you're already max-factioned... so what's the point? To kill time? If that's the case, which do you spend more time consuming? A 1000 dailies you predictably pick up every day from a predictable static set of NPCs? Or finding the same count of quests (that the devs can now make because they arent making dailies) that are scattered throughout the gameworld in obscure and/or difficult to reach places?
Bottom line is that I want to adventure and discover, not be a paramilitary FedEx service. The more time spent developing dailies, the less spent building things to be discovered organically.
Feyshtey said:
I understand what you said perfectly well. "Daily Quest" being a questgiver that changes the task he provides on a day to day basis, or different stages of a quest are actionable.
The end result of this is still a pre-defined set of quests. Eventually a player with notable time on their hands will have consumed them, and will reach a point at which they start repeating them. You've altered the perception, but you havent elminated the root of the problem ; people consuming all the content. This is an inevitabiility, and not a flaw with your plan or any other, really. But it's still an illusion.
Yes but by the time you will have gone through them all the next expansion, or multiple expansions, will have come out. That is the reason for dailies in the first place. To extend content because players play through it faster than it can be created. By limiting it to a set period of time it accomplishes that. It's no different than spawn times on raid bosses. If a raid boss instantly spawned you could gear up a lot faster. These kinds of delays in content are beneficial/necessary.
Feyshtey said:
You've also not addressed many (if any) of the irritating things about the philosophy of "daily" quests.
It's still a guy at a place that predictably hands out a quest that you then go complete. A developer still has to create the quest, but you dont consume any time, energy or thought in discovering the quest. You just run up to a guy to get a task you know will be there because an arbitrary amount of time has passed.
It's still a quest that has no real meaning to any notable storyline or backstory, while doing so in a gimmicky fasion that screams in your face that you're playing whackamole rather than experiencing a living breathing gameworld.
Once again you are limiting your view of what dailies can be (I'm assuming because your primary eperience with daily quests is WoW...but I probaly shouldn't assume). Why do you think it has to be from the same guy in the same place? What if it is a npc randomly in the world somewhere who gives a different quest everyday? Players would have to socialize and help each other out to locate the npc for the day if they want to get the quest. Why would it have to be a quest that "has no real meaning to any notable storyline or backstory"? That is a completely preconcieved notion based on your limited view of what daily quests are. Any long quest can be broken up into parts that are only able to be done each day...from epics to pure lore quests that are story driven.
The time period that a quest is available doesn't have any bearing on the quality of the quest.
Feyshtey said:
If your deepest issue is that you hate running out of content, all you've done is provide a predictable carrot for you to log in and do day after day, without really helping you in any real way. Presumably if you've consumed all other content, you're already max level, you're already max-geared, you're already max-factioned... so what's the point? To kill time? If that's the case, which do you spend more time consuming? A 1000 dailies you predictably pick up every day from a predictable static set of NPCs? Or finding the same count of quests (that the devs can now make because they arent making dailies) that are scattered throughout the gameworld in obscure and/or difficult to reach places?
You are 100% correct it helps to kill time. Some people don't ever get to the point where they lack incentive to play prior to the next expansion so they won't understand the importance of delaying content. I have learned to love time sinks. Anything that keeps me feeling like I have a reason to continue to play when there isn't anything left to accomplish. There is no difference between a quest that a dev makes that is available all the time or a quest that a dev makes that is only available during a limited time window (daily).
Feyshtey said:
Bottom line is that I want to adventure and discover, not be a paramilitary FedEx service. The more time spent developing dailies, the less spent building things to be discovered organically.
Just because a quest is available at set time intervals doesn't make it less than any other content. Throw all your preconcieved notions about what daily quests have to be out the window and realize that how you are describing them is based on poor implementation.
philo said:Yes but by the time you will have gone through them all the next expansion, or multiple expansions, will have come out. That is the reason for dailies in the first place. To extend content because players play through it faster than it can be created. By limiting it to a set period of time it accomplishes that. It's no different than spawn times on raid bosses. If a raid boss instantly spawned you could gear up a lot faster. These kinds of delays in content are beneficial/necessary.
By this reasoning they should just prevent you from handing in more than X-quests per day. How about 5? 10? Bah, make it one and the game will last much longer for everyone.
philo said:Once again you are limiting your view of what dailies can be (I'm assuming because your primary eperience with daily quest is WoW...but I probaly shouldn't assume). Why do you think it has to be from the same guy in the same place? What if it is a npc randomly in the world somewhere who gives a different quest everyday? Players would have to socialize and help each other out to locate the npc for the day if they want to get the quest. Why would it have to be a quest that "has no real meaning to any notable storyline or backstory"? That is a completely preconcieved notion based on your limited view of what daily quests are. Any long quest can be broken up into parts that are only able to be done each day...from epics to pure lore quests that are story driven.
The time period that a quest is available doesn't have any bearing on the quality of the quest.
If you're arguing that a traditional questline that progresses thru a backstory can be a "daily", then you're just applying the arbitrary gimmicky mechanic of only doing a stage a day or something. See above. Why not make it so you can only do one stage of any questline in a day? Why not make it so you can only do one quest a day, period?
philo said:You are 100% correct it helps to kill time. Some people don't ever get to the point where they lack incentive to play prior to the next expansion so they won't understand the importance of delaying content. I have learned to love time sinks. Anything that keeps me feeling like I have a reason to continue to play when there isn't anything left to accomplish. There is no difference between a quest that a dev makes that is available all the time or a quest that a dev makes that is only available during a limited time window (daily).
Again, for overachievers like you, maybe they should set a throttle on everything you can ever do in a day. Say, one hour of group content, one raid, and one quest completion. The game will last you years. Maybe they can make it per week instead, so that someone like me that often cant play at all for several days can still get a week's worth of allowed completions on the one day of the week I might have 6 hours to play. Everyone wins?
philo said:Just because a quest is available at set time intervals doesn't make it less than any other content. Throw all your preconcieved notions about what daily quests have to be out the window and realize that how you are describing them is based on poor implementation.
No, it just makes the game feel like its got artifial walls that impede the abiliity to move freely and experience everything that's out there as you find it. It puts roadblocks and speedbumps in the way for no purpose other than to slow you down. There's a purpose to timesinks, and I'm perfectly fine with playing thru timesinks. I'm not ok with waiting for invisible barriers to clear from my path so that I can continue to play.
Feyshtey said:
philo said:
Yes but by the time you will have gone through them all the next expansion, or multiple expansions, will have come out. That is the reason for dailies in the first place. To extend content because players play through it faster than it can be created. By limiting it to a set period of time it accomplishes that. It's no different than spawn times on raid bosses. If a raid boss instantly spawned you could gear up a lot faster. These kinds of delays in content are beneficial/necessary.
Feyshtey said:
By this reasoning they should just prevent you from handing in more than X-quests per day. How about 5? 10? Bah, make it one and the game will last much longer for everyone.
That would be another way to go about extending content sure...but since extending content isn't necessary for everyone that solution seems overly limiting. If someone could only play 1 day a week and you could only turn in a set number of quests a day then that would be a huge detriment to that person.
philo said:
Once again you are limiting your view of what dailies can be (I'm assuming because your primary eperience with daily quest is WoW...but I probaly shouldn't assume). Why do you think it has to be from the same guy in the same place? What if it is a npc randomly in the world somewhere who gives a different quest everyday? Players would have to socialize and help each other out to locate the npc for the day if they want to get the quest. Why would it have to be a quest that "has no real meaning to any notable storyline or backstory"? That is a completely preconcieved notion based on your limited view of what daily quests are. Any long quest can be broken up into parts that are only able to be done each day...from epics to pure lore quests that are story driven.
The time period that a quest is available doesn't have any bearing on the quality of the quest.
Feyshtey said:
If you're arguing that a traditional questline that progresses thru a backstory can be a "daily", then you're just applying the arbitrary gimmicky mechanic of only doing a stage a day or something. See above. Why not make it so you can only do one stage of any questline in a day? Why not make it so you can only do one quest a day, period?
See the above reasoning...but again, you are correct that what you are proposing would be another solution, though not really a better one. You should stop thinking of limiting quests to a set time as "gimmicky". Like my other example of mob spawn times. Is limiting a mobs spawn time "gimmicky" to you too? I doubt it? No one has claimed that every quest or every aspect of the game should be time delayed.
I'm glad I got my point across that any quest can be offered with a daily component. It doesn't have to be the rinse/repeat, monotonous quests that are offered daily in WoW.
philo said:
You are 100% correct it helps to kill time. Some people don't ever get to the point where they lack incentive to play prior to the next expansion so they won't understand the importance of delaying content. I have learned to love time sinks. Anything that keeps me feeling like I have a reason to continue to play when there isn't anything left to accomplish. There is no difference between a quest that a dev makes that is available all the time or a quest that a dev makes that is only available during a limited time window (daily).
Feyshtey said:
Again, for overachievers like you, maybe they should set a throttle on everything you can ever do in a day. Say, one hour of group content, one raid, and one quest completion. The game will last you years. Maybe they can make it per week instead, so that someone like me that often cant play at all for several days can still get a week's worth of allowed completions on the one day of the week I might have 6 hours to play. Everyone wins?
As far as in game balance everyone needs to be on an equal footing. If that was the way the game was for everyone sure, that is another solution. I don't think most people would like that...and I think you know that isn't a logical solution. Though if there was some extra reward attainable by limiting what you could do in a set period of time I would be interested in that at some point I'm sure. I don't think that would be very popular to most people.
philo said:
Just because a quest is available at set time intervals doesn't make it less than any other content. Throw all your preconcieved notions about what daily quests have to be out the window and realize that how you are describing them is based on poor implementation.
Feyshtey said:
No, it just makes the game feel like its got artifial walls that impede the abiliity to move freely and experience everything that's out there as you find it. It puts roadblocks and speedbumps in the way for no purpose other than to slow you down. There's a purpose to timesinks, and I'm perfectly fine with playing thru timesinks. I'm not ok with waiting for invisible barriers to clear from my path so that I can continue to play.
Some quests are only doable at night. Do you not like those either? Some quests are only doable when a certain NPC or Mob is spawned. Do you not like those limitations? Do those kinds of limitations feel like it has artificial walls? There really is no difference between those except in the way you percieve it.
* I do think you might be onto something in your last couple sentences. Maybe instead of time delayed, daily quests there should be many more time sinks that take as long as if they were only able to be done once per day?
So a quest that would normally take 100 days to complete if it was doable once a day, would take 100 days to complete by the player who finishes it fastest. Though that does add in a lot more variables in the amount of time it would take different people. The fastest person would complete it in 100 days while the slowest person to complete it might take them years.
The key is that the shortest amount of time it could possibly be completed be equivalent because the point is to give the devs that extended time period to be able to create future content before people run out of things to do. I'm afraid casual players might be overwhelmed by that length of time sink but maybe not?
I think extending content with deep deep time sinks like mentioned above would be a great solution personally. I like having a goal I can work on for a year or more.
I was never a huge fan of dailies, but I loved the idea of guild writs. Helping out the guild by doing a few adventuring or crafting writs everday soon morped into something I looked forward to doing. Group writs were a great for getting a quick group of guildies together to do something that didn't take very long to do when you only had a short time to play. If you couldn't sleep, but your guildies were all logging off after a raid, you could run a couple solo writs and feel like you were accomplishing something both for yourself and your guild all in one whack.
So Philo I think you came around in the last paragraph, but I do want to point out that the fundamental difference between a quest that can only be completed during in-game night and one that can only be completed once every irl day is that the former is non-arbitrary with respect to the world of Terminus. If some monster literally isn't around until night time then you can't be expected to kill it.
Anyway, there was basically no gated content like that in FFXI except stuff on 3 day lockouts so I assume any game in the same vein will pretty rarely run into the situation where they'd need dailies. Plus, in a world like this one the vast majority of players will be utilizing multiple expansions worth of content at the same time, so there will probably be no need for this. I trust the dev team.
You don't think time sinks that would take some people years to complete would turn people off? Some people would complete epic quests 10X quicker.
I feel like that might sound better to people on the forums but in reality might not be as accepted in game when people come to the realization of exactly what they have to do to complete such a time sink.
If that is something people could get into, that could be a way to extend content instead of limiting quests based on time like dailies. I'd prefer it over dailies. It is another solution to the problem.
The only "problem" is people with large quantities of contiguous time powering thru what content is available. From there the "solution" is to either put in blocks or timesinks for everyone (including those who play with more moderate schedules) or acknowledge that there will be a (relatively small) percentage of the player base that will consume all available content no matter what and be forced to wait until more is released. Some could argue that the "problem" is not the game or the path to advancement at all, and more so people who consume content at a pace that is excessively great to support indefinately.
Feyshtey said:
The only "problem" is people with large quantities of contiguous time powering thru what content is available. From there the "solution" is to either put in blocks or timesinks for everyone (including those who play with more moderate schedules) or acknowledge that there will be a (relatively small) percentage of the player base that will consume all available content no matter what and be forced to wait until more is released. Some could argue that the "problem" is not the game or the path to advancement at all, and more so people who consume content at a pace that is excessively great to support indefinately.
It is a problem that affects a percentage of the playerbase in every game. You can't get away from it. Content can not be produced at the same rate players play through it. Maybe it affects 5% of players, maybe it's an issue for 20% or 30% or more of the playerbase. It all depends on how fast content is produced. With such a small dev team we have to guess it will be an issue for quite a few people.
When you say things like :
Feyshtey said:
someone like me that often cant play at all for several days can still get a week's worth of allowed completions on the one day of the week I might have 6 hours to play.
You make it very clear that this won't affect you and that is where your view point is coming from. You aren't coming from the perspective of what is best for the playerbase as a whole. That is a selfish view point. You will still be able to play through all the content. You will never have the issue of not having any incentive to play like others will. There are additions to the game that can be added so that others won't have these issues but for some reason you are against these things that would allow others to continue playing and enjoying the game.
We already know VR is trying to extend content to help negate this problem. The progeny system will do that. AAs do that. Dailys do that. Time sinks do that. There are a number of ways content can be extended. To simply say:
Feyshtey said: the "problem" is not the game or the path to advancement at all, and more so people who consume content at a pace that is excessively great to support indefinately.
^Is not adding any possible solution to the problem.
Philo using your own numbers the vast majority will not run out of content before you would need dailies to cover the gap. I cannot reconcile the hypocrisy of saying his argument that (using your own numbers) dailies are a solution to a problem only a minority of players experience if at all is somehow an argument not for "the betterment of the playerbase at all". It seems to me like your fervent desire to see such systems implemented to benefit a (by your own admission) minority of players is precisely the opposite of what you think you are espousing.
Jimmayus said:Philo using your own numbers the vast majority will not run out of content before you would need dailies to cover the gap. I cannot reconcile the hypocrisy of saying his argument that (using your own numbers) dailies are a solution to a problem only a minority of players experience if at all is somehow an argument not for "the betterment of the playerbase at all". It seems to me like your fervent desire to see such systems implemented to benefit a (by your own admission) minority of players is precisely the opposite of what you think you are espousing.
It does offer more benefit to a minority of players but it doesn't negatively affect the majority. These kind of content delays are generally not "required" class quests or epic type quests. If someone wants to do them they can but they wouldn't be game breaking for someone who doesn't. If anything it just adds more things to do for everyone, whether you have run out of in game incentives or not. When a player has no other incentive to log in these kind of content extensions have a greater value. The other choice ends up being taking a break from the game and waiting until more content is added...which is why VR is instating some content to try to thwart these issues.
Hopefully the progeny system will go a long way towards being a solution.
I'm not against dailies, but I think (as others have pointed out) it's imperative that they're done right. I too have played WoW, and the daily system they had there was monotonous and bland. Many of the dailies were "do this same quest every day to get rewards" and very few were "do one of these random five quests to get rewards", which was slightly better. Either way, within a week or so, you'd have the objectives of all the quests memorized and you'd just auto pilot around doing your dailies instead of doing something that was actually engaging and fun.
I have to believe there's a better way to handle dailies.
Also, let me say that dailies are completely different from repeatable turn ins. Those usually become a grind for exp/reputation/currency to buy a thing, and I believe it's been stated that this type of thing may exist, but there will also likely be much more engaging ways to do this instead of just grinding mobs to collect tokens for turn-in.
Anyway, back to the original point of this post: I think dailies are fine if they're done in more dynamic, engaging way.
For example, I'm a big fan of daily bonuses, which aren't exactly daily quests. FFXIV implements this nicely, where each day, you get a bonus to your currency/exp for doing a specific task, like a dungeon or a specific trial. It encourages you to do the content, but since this is just a bonus, it's not something that you have to do by any means. Now this caters more to the casual players in helping them get to their goals without grinding all day, since they can just do a dungeon every day or every other day and get a decent bonus and still reach their goals in decent time. A bonus system implemented like this wouldn't realy ease the issue of helping to bridge the gap between when the more active/hardcore players finish the content and need something to tide them over until next expansion.
I don't really like the idea of a quest having parts, and each part being gated by time. Time gating is not the same thing as a daily quest. Time gating can be good, (think like setting weekly caps on currencies to lower the gap between the hardcore and the casual) but I don't like the idea of just random quests being gated like that. I think it would be an annoyance.
If there are daily quests, I just want to see them be a whole lot more engaging than what we've seen in the past. Maybe a quest that can change decently dramatically each day, but still have the same premise. Something like a quest to find a wandering NPC that moves around within a region. You can talk to NPCs to figure out where he is, and the quest, while the same at its core (find the guy!) can be very different each day and remain fun for a lot longer. Other examples of this type of more dynamic quest could be rounding up chickens that move around a village, escorting a dynamic trade caravan from one location to the next, really anything that has enough variable that it isn't identical day to day. As long as we're being engaged, dailies won't feel like a grind.
Though I would like to see relatively few of them. As people have mentioned, I don't want to have to feel like I have to maximize my efficiency by finishing my 20 dailies before actually starting to play the game.
I think ideally, daily quests should be focused into a narrow objective, such as reputation grinding, or something that is not generically required.
philo said:You make it very clear that this won't affect you and that is where your view point is coming from. You aren't coming from the perspective of what is best for the playerbase as a whole. That is a selfish view point.
The first two statements are not mutually exclusive. Which was my point. My premise was that if this particular issue is one that affects a small percentage of the player base, it would be selfish of them to expect development time to be dedicated to them alone to keep them busy for as long as it might take to get another expansion out, and do so in a way that has the potential to cause everyone else in the game to face that same grind to gain the same rewards, whether they be cash, xp, gear or faction.
But I chose not to use terms like "selfish", because I wasnt trying to make a personal judgement or attack on you. But, frankly if you regularly manage to consume all possible content in an MMO before new releases happen you should get a life.
Faranor said:Please no dailies with bonus rewards. There can be a set of quests for people that don't know what to do or who just want to accomplish something in the limited time they have that day but don't make the rewards special or higher than other quests, tasks, etc.
-Fara
I'm not sure you entirely understand what I was talking about, because for someone to be able to achieve a decent goal in a limited amount of time, there has to be some mechanic that can artificially bridge the gap between those who have one hour to play, and those who have twelve hours to play.
If there is a daily bonus such that once a day, you get a bit more currency (not a game-breaking difference, mind you), it allows those casuals to fall less behind. Something like this is not meant to allow those with less time to keep up or even get ahead of those who commit more time. It simply makes that gap a bit smaller. Even then, those with way more time are still going to be far ahead of those who tap the bonus and are out of time.
Also, if you were referring to me (which I'm not sure since you didn't actually quote or reply, so if you're speaking in general, then feel free to ignore), I never said dailies with a bonus. I said daily bonuses. I'm not trying to mince words, but there is a huge difference here. A daily is a type of quest that you can only do once per day. A daily bonus gives you a bit more currency/faction/exp/coin/whatever for doing something you would already do, and you can repeat that task as much as you want, but the first completion gives a bit...more. In FFXIV, it was if you did your dungeon queue, the first one per day gave a bit "more". More gold, more exp, more everything you got from the dungeon, just more. It was nice on days when I had a limited amount of time. I could log in, do the tasks that offered a bonus, and feel like I had at least done a bit of something. Those with more time to play than me would farm dungeons all day long and get way way more, but I felt satisfied that I had at least gotten a little something out of the day, more than a normal dungeon run might have gotten me.
In the context of Pantheon, I could see it being something like: for the first boss/named kill you get each day, drop chances are slightly increased, and you get more exp/faction from the kill. If I only have an hour to play, I can take advantage of the bonuses, which are not dailies, they are bonuses for things I would already do in-game, but the bonus reward may direct me a certain way. That way, even if my day is crazy and I only have an hour or two to play, I can turn to the tasks which have bonus that day and make a bit more progress than if I just did random stuff. Those who have more time would just farm more than I did, and they would clearly get much more than I would from doing my one task with bonus, but it would bridge that gap a bit, and that's what I'm all for.
Temmi said:Faranor said:Please no dailies with bonus rewards. There can be a set of quests for people that don't know what to do or who just want to accomplish something in the limited time they have that day but don't make the rewards special or higher than other quests, tasks, etc.
-Fara
I'm not sure you entirely understand what I was talking about, because for someone to be able to achieve a decent goal in a limited amount of time, there has to be some mechanic that can artificially bridge the gap between those who have one hour to play, and those who have twelve hours to play.
If there is a daily bonus such that once a day, you get a bit more currency (not a game-breaking difference, mind you), it allows those casuals to fall less behind. Something like this is not meant to allow those with less time to keep up or even get ahead of those who commit more time. It simply makes that gap a bit smaller. Even then, those with way more time are still going to be far ahead of those who tap the bonus and are out of time.
Also, if you were referring to me (which I'm not sure since you didn't actually quote or reply, so if you're speaking in general, then feel free to ignore), I never said dailies with a bonus. I said daily bonuses. I'm not trying to mince words, but there is a huge difference here. A daily is a type of quest that you can only do once per day. A daily bonus gives you a bit more currency/faction/exp/coin/whatever for doing something you would already do, and you can repeat that task as much as you want, but the first completion gives a bit...more. In FFXIV, it was if you did your dungeon queue, the first one per day gave a bit "more". More gold, more exp, more everything you got from the dungeon, just more. It was nice on days when I had a limited amount of time. I could log in, do the tasks that offered a bonus, and feel like I had at least done a bit of something. Those with more time to play than me would farm dungeons all day long and get way way more, but I felt satisfied that I had at least gotten a little something out of the day, more than a normal dungeon run might have gotten me.
In the context of Pantheon, I could see it being something like: for the first boss/named kill you get each day, drop chances are slightly increased, and you get more exp/faction from the kill. If I only have an hour to play, I can take advantage of the bonuses, which are not dailies, they are bonuses for things I would already do in-game, but the bonus reward may direct me a certain way. That way, even if my day is crazy and I only have an hour or two to play, I can turn to the tasks which have bonus that day and make a bit more progress than if I just did random stuff. Those who have more time would just farm more than I did, and they would clearly get much more than I would from doing my one task with bonus, but it would bridge that gap a bit, and that's what I'm all for.
What you describe, reminds me of the rested Exp bonus they had in Vanguard. That helped to bridge the gap for players who could only play for a limited amount of time, versus those who could play all day. Something like that, I would be fine with if done right.
However, I don't consider that to be in the same category as Daily Quests though. When I think of "Dailies", to me it means every day you must complete a quest (like kill 20 rats and harvest 10 plants) to get the daily quest reward. So if you only have a small amount of time to play in a day, that daily quest ends up being all you ever do in the game. And if you cannot play a day, you feel bad because you couldn't complete your daily.
These time limited + repeatable quests should be avoided IMO. You can have time limited quests, like special seasonal events. And you can have repeatable quests, like the deathfist slashed belt quest from EQ1. But combining the two, making a quest repeatable per a set time limit is where I take issue.
Wellspring said:What you describe, reminds me of the rested Exp bonus they had in Vanguard. That helped to bridge the gap for players who could only play for a limited amount of time, versus those who could play all day. Something like that, I would be fine with if done right.
However, I don't consider that to be in the same category as Daily Quests though. When I think of "Dailies", to me it means every day you must complete a quest (like kill 20 rats and harvest 10 plants) to get the daily quest reward. So if you only have a small amount of time to play in a day, that daily quest ends up being all you ever do in the game. And if you cannot play a day, you feel bad because you couldn't complete your daily.
These time limited + repeatable quests should be avoided IMO. You can have time limited quests, like special seasonal events. And you can have repeatable quests, like the deathfist slashed belt quest from EQ1. But combining the two, making a quest repeatable per a set time limit is where I take issue.
It's a bit different from rested exp, because it doesn't accumulate after days of not playing, and I think the mentality behind it is a lot different. Rested exp almost rewards you for not playing, though obviously the argument is that it isn't a reward per se, it just helps those who have less time to play be able to kind of keep up with those who have more time. Daily bonuses, on the other hand, encourage you to play every day to check off your bonus.
As you said, it's not quite a daily quest either, but something that would be done every day, so it's in the same family.
I agree that the current incarnations of daily quests that we've seen have been exactly what you describe; almost an inhibition to actually playing the game, since you feel obligated to do those things first. The daily bonus would give you a bit more for doing the stuff you would already do, and that's the big huge key difference here. You're not being shoehorned into doing something you really don't want to do. You're just getting a daily helping of bonus reward for doing the things you would do regardless.