Feyshtey said:Gurt said:Unlike most here, I have no objection to daily quests so long as they're tied into the lore. The example that Beefcake gave is pretty perfect. An NPC town builder needs stone to work on some project so he sends you out to collect some from a nearby quarry. When you return he thanks you and tells you that with all the stone you and other adventurers gathered that he should be good for several [in game] days and to check back then [tomorrow in real time].
Something similar I've asked for in the past are repeateable tasks or standing quests for bounties that aren't logged but that any player can complete at any time for xp and/or cash rewards. In my mind these would work exactly like the deathfist sash, crushbone belts, gnoll fangs, and kobold paw quests that were in EQ. If you have the bounty item you can turn in however many you want and get scaled rewards, then go out and get more if you want. They just need a slightly better organization system than EQ had. Hell, it's be a good use of the perception system to have a wanted poster in the town square and get the task that way.
I'm all for almost any content regardless of the form, as long as it doesn't break immersion.
I dont mind the notion of repeatable quests. I mind the notion that a quest is on some arbitrary timer and that you can't turn in 2 sets of 8 deathfist belts back to back, and that somehow my reputation with the dwarves hinges on only handing those in 8 per day. For that matter, I mind the notion that I have to go talk to someone to get permission to run out and get 8 deathfist belts, bring them back, and then wait to ask for permission to go get 8 more. If I find 8 while in the world, even if I dont have any clue what they are for, I should be able to pick them up and then stumble across someone later that says "Hey, those belts you got there, I'll take em off your hand for X coin if you're interested."
All for that. Some games can detect that you looted a question item and a npc may tell you that they are looking for those items.
It sucks to loot 100 of something while grinding, then get a quest to go loot 8 more when you got back to town. Just turn in what you already have.
Not a fan of dailies, but I like repeatable quests from mob loot turn ins. I am not talking about a quest telling me to go get 8 items from a mob, but one that let's me turn in what I already have.
I remember getting A LOT of gnoll teeth from Blackburrow in EQ. I assumed they were trash and just sold them, until I found the guard that would take them in exchange for xp/coin.
I was hunting gnoll anyways, so might as well give him all my extra teeth.
These kind of repeatable quests are nice, no stupid daily limit. If I killed a hundred gnoll, he was still happy. But, he never required me to get the quest first, then go kill only a limited number of gnolls.
If the town wants gnolls dead, why would they ever only want 8 killed a day?
Ah yes... gnoll teeth. I loved collecting those for some reason.
My thought is a daily limit on how much you can do something makes you feel like you have to do it each day instead of running around doing what you want to do. A game shouldn't make me feel like I have to do something each day.
But repeatable quests that gain you XP or gold or faction or some other AA type of thing is totally cool. Especially things like collecting gnoll teeth and turning them in or crafting writs to help alleviate the costs associated with levelling a crafting skill.
Feyshtey said:philo said:You make it very clear that this won't affect you and that is where your view point is coming from. You aren't coming from the perspective of what is best for the playerbase as a whole. That is a selfish view point.
The first two statements are not mutually exclusive. Which was my point. My premise was that if this particular issue is one that affects a small percentage of the player base, it would be selfish of them to expect development time to be dedicated to them alone to keep them busy for as long as it might take to get another expansion out, and do so in a way that has the potential to cause everyone else in the game to face that same grind to gain the same rewards, whether they be cash, xp, gear or faction.
But I chose not to use terms like "selfish", because I wasnt trying to make a personal judgement or attack on you. But, frankly if you regularly manage to consume all possible content in an MMO before new releases happen you should get a life.
If losing that percentage of the playerbase is the result, that is a priority. Losing a percentage of the total subsciptions, because of a lack of in game incentives, affects both developers and players and the overall sustainability of the game. That is why this issue is so important. Without content extensions of some sort, games can't survive.
Quotes like this show that you don't seem to grasp the reality of what is being discussed:
Feyshtey said:it would be selfish of them to expect development time to be dedicated to them alone to keep them busy
VR employees understand the need to address this issue. I guess that is all that really matters. I expect they will utilize many different systems to extend content. We know the progeny system is one. Dailies could end up as another. AAs have been discussed. I enjoy long time sinks. There will hopefully be some new implementations of content extending systems that we are unfamiliar with.
I absolutely do not want "daily" quests. Period.
I have no issues however with repeatable quests, just so long as there is no limit on how many and how often I choose to complete it. As others have said, it makes absolutely no sense to turn in x orc belts to complete a quest and then have to wait 24 hours to turn in more. Why would the NPC refuse to accept any more belts from you today (btw...24 hours irl could be days/weeks of Terminus time)? If there is a reason that the NPC or NPC guild/faction wants orc belts (most likely as proof that you have in fact killed an orc) then you should be able to CHOOSE to kill as many orcs and turn in as many belts as you please. Or at least until the NPC guild/faction no longer requires any more belts (perhaps the orc uprising has been quelled).
I also have no issue with this quest changing from time to time from killing orcs for belts, to gnolls for teeth. In a living breathing world it would make sense for enemy NPC factions and groups to rise and fall. For example, if a Dwarven city issues quests or bounties for killing orcs, and then after hundreds of PCs have killed hundreds or thousands of orcs and scattered the survivors, perhaps the nearby gnoll clans decide time is right for them to step in and assume power in the region. If they start getting too big for their britches and start causing problems for the Dwarves, then they will issue bounties for gnolls.
This is just a very basic idea of how to "change it up" for people who get bored of camp grinding. Of course, choosing to do these repeatable quests should have no advantage over choosing instead to grind in a dungeon or other "camp" spot. I think the coin/faction/exp rewards should be comparable between the two, but *difficulty and risk* should be the things that determine reward.
Ultimately, repeatable quests/bounties are fine imo, just please no quests that have cooldown timers that offer rewards that are not obtainable by any other means...
Playing off of Teglayan's comment about factions and groups rising and falling as well as other comments about player actions affecting the game world AND a way to include the extra repeatable content in a game... Maybe somewhere down the road after the initial go-live, they could introduce an area that is pretty much all out swamped with mobs and danger and really too difficult to clear in a single go of it. So maybe groups could clear out a small portion of an area and start doing quests to build a settlement. The settlement could include inns and vendors and guards to protect itself from hordes of orcs for a time. As long as frequent enough work is done to keep the settlement in good working order, folks could move out deeper into this nasty zone and setup further outposts. Without constant work to keep the outposts clear and free of danger, enemies and the elements could move in and wipe it out. Deep into this zone could be a particularly interesting set of quests or dungeons or raids to entice the community to put in the effort to keep the settlements thriving so they could have a base from which to start their assault.
Then every so often Real World time... once a month or so, a massive earthquake or volcanic eruption or terrible uprising of a horde could wipe all the settlements out in the zone allowing anyone, no matter how many years from now they start this game, experience the thrill of slowly chipping away at the enemies, expanding a safe territory to finally reach the part of the zone where that awesome raid/dungeon or set of quests exist.
Just a thought...
Teglayen said:
I absolutely do not want "daily" quests. Period.
I...have no issue with this quest changing from time to time from killing orcs for belts, to gnolls for teeth..
You make the original statement and then make the follow up statement like you don't realize a different quest could be offered "daily". If you could turn in as many items as you want that day....and then the next day there is another quest for another item, it is still a daily quest. It seems you have the same issue that a lot of people in this thread have in that you have a limited view of what daily quests can be because you have only experienced daily quests that have been implemented poorly.
philo said:Teglayen said:
I absolutely do not want "daily" quests. Period.
I...have no issue with this quest changing from time to time from killing orcs for belts, to gnolls for teeth..
You make the original statement and then make the follow up statement like you don't realize a different quest could be offered "daily". If you could turn in as many items as you want that day....and then the next day there is another quest for another item, it is still a daily quest. It seems you have the same issue that a lot of people in this thread have in that you have a limited view of what daily quests can be because you have only experienced daily quests that have been implemented poorly.
That is because we are arguing about traditional daily quest, that you only do once a day.
If you want to change the definition of daily into a repeatable quest that changes daily, that is a different argument.
Beefcake said:
That is because we are arguing about traditional daily quest, that you only do once a day.
If you want to change the definition of daily into a repeatable quest that changes daily, that is a different argument.
Calling daily quests that are the same thing everyday, and that you can only repeat once a day, "traditional" is a sad statement on the experience, or lack there of, that wow has provided to the typical mmorpg player.
You were the OP and that wasn't clarified there. If you go through the thread it has been brought up multiple times by myself and others that that isn't what daily quests have to be.
I agree that is not what daily quests should be. No argument here. We all want something better.
My argument with the post I quoted was simply that you said we don't realize that a different quest can be given daily or that the concept can change.
We do know. That's why we are hoping the devs change it.
I dont like dailys. I mean if you are in game and there's nothing to do that is the inherent vice involved with a sandbox style game.
So there are a couple of things- either get involved with as many quests or interest as possible to decide which to do in the event of down time, or get creative like - plan your own quests to give away old armor, take slightly younger players through a dungeon that you know, be a tour-guide of sorts, or hide under a bridge and kill guards cos you want to or to lower faction. I dont think Daily's are the cure for that potential ennui
philo said:Teglayen said:
I absolutely do not want "daily" quests. Period.
I...have no issue with this quest changing from time to time from killing orcs for belts, to gnolls for teeth..
You make the original statement and then make the follow up statement like you don't realize a different quest could be offered "daily". If you could turn in as many items as you want that day....and then the next day there is another quest for another item, it is still a daily quest. It seems you have the same issue that a lot of people in this thread have in that you have a limited view of what daily quests can be because you have only experienced daily quests that have been implemented poorly.
I think our difference of opinion here may be more about the definition of "daily" quest. My main issue is with quests that are limited, or that change atrificailly due to irl time. It is more of an immersion breaking event than anything. In my example of bounties changing from orcs to gnolls, it doesnt make sense to make Monday orc day and Tuesday Gnoll day just because. The change for the bounty needs to happen for a logical reason. Someting that makes sense from the point of view of the NPC giving the quest/bounty in the first place. Orcs are no longer a problem? They are going to stop paying for proof of killing them. Gnolls raiding merchant caravans? Start paying for proof of killing Gnolls.
If new quests become availalbe, or existing quests change due to events in game, lore, etc. I'm fine with that, just not when they change because its now 12:01 AM PST.
No to dailies entirely.
HOWEVER - I am not opposed to events that happen that are daily-ish.
Example : New patch coming up, but for it to be unlocked players have to contribute wood to build a bridge that can span the channel leading to the new zone. Once completed, everyone benefits from being able to cross the bridge wether they participated or not.
Beefcake said:What are your thought on daily quests for faction grinds, XP, cash, etc?
I've always called dailies the laziest form of content. And that's not because I hate the concept so much as the execution. Dailies for the most part are the same boring things that you have to just do over and over and over again. Seldom changing, and often boring. It's simply a daily checklist that occupies time better spent exploring a dungeon or some other active thing.
I am by no means a fan of dailies. But if someone were to take that idea and do something fun and creative with it, I just might get behind it. But fun and creative are the important parts there.
philo said:Teglayen said:
I absolutely do not want "daily" quests. Period.
I...have no issue with this quest changing from time to time from killing orcs for belts, to gnolls for teeth..
You make the original statement and then make the follow up statement like you don't realize a different quest could be offered "daily". If you could turn in as many items as you want that day....and then the next day there is another quest for another item, it is still a daily quest. It seems you have the same issue that a lot of people in this thread have in that you have a limited view of what daily quests can be because you have only experienced daily quests that have been implemented poorly.
I'm glad to see you pointing out that daily quests can be implemented better than just letting you do it once per day.
Quests with unlimited turn ins sound like a much better fix for late gamers that have too much time on their hands because everyone, (even those without too much time), can take advantage of unlimited turn-ins whenever and as often as they need.
To expand on the original page 1 post's worry: Unlimited turn ins seem like they would solve the issue of not having enough content at any particular time...decently...until more content can be released. In fact, unlimited turn in quests would probably solve that particular issue even better than a once per day daily ever could.
I prefer these unlimited turn-in quests changing by content because that just sounds like it does a better job of bringing the world alive, but I dont mind them changing by time. Also if the quests do change the rewards should probably be similar so that people don't feel like they need to have to play at a particular time to be efficient.
I should point out that even making once per day dailies really complicated or change every day would be like a job that is really complicated or changes every day. Some folks might enjoy them but they sound lame to me personally so I'd prefer not ever feeling like I have to do them every single day (maybe by having lots of equal-value unlimited turn in quests I can do instead...Or level up content thats so dang fun i wanna make alts all day).
The exception to the rule would probably be complicated dalies that only happen at particular times when the servers just need more people, like a restaurant having discounts at a time when people don't usually come in. (server pun not intended)
Dkeesling007 said:Daily quests meh........why......why.....
If in fact people NEED something daily to do go farm me crafting mats and ill make you some armor..........
Or better still find a faction you need help with and go work that.
Actually, daily quests tend to be implemented to increase factions. That is one of their regular purposes.
The one thing about dailies I didn't mention is that it takes away from the point of the game. You don't want people logging in to just do the dailies for 30 minutes then log out until the next day. That's not kind of game they are developing here. I had a friend that played EQ like that; logged in and killed quickly while rest bonuses were up then logged out. It was towards the end of their EQ life and I think that kind of playstyle eventually leads to leaving the game.
You want to keep people engaged. Even though they may not have time to play more than 30-60 minutes a day, you want them to leave wanting more play time. If people only log in to do the dailies and don't want to stay on more than that then there's something going on with their feelings about the game.
Would very much prefer to see instead a large variety of "for the hell of it skills". Things like learning oter races' languages, maybe horse husbandry, orienteering, hell it doesn't really matter. Make those grinds of comical length and it'll keep people occupied in ways that make much more sense than arbitrary time locks. I'd much rather they even do things like create basic tavern games at in-game inns so people could hang out and play Terminus-chess or darts or something together.