Kilsin said:Plus you could use that time to make new friends, inspect someone's cool gear, organise your bags, there was plenty to do to pass the time and interact with fellow players :D
Manouk said:...The key here as I see it is: how do you get higher level players who are powerful and very busy geting to the group/raid on time to keep taking the boats- Back, instead of safely camping out in the wild to return the next day. How do you make valuable the return trip to safety and incoporate it into game play (like a corpse run?)...
Kasekil said:As long as it serves a realisitic purpose, I don't mind longer boat rides. If rides take awhile just for the hell of it, so you can talk it up with others to pass the time, then yea thats just gonna get old fast. I'd probably just use the time to browse the web if that were the case...
Dullahan said:...There should always be a reason to ride the boat or to travel manually and teleports should, in my opinion, be a luxury and come at a price.
vjek said:If there is an advantage or something to be gained from the boat rides, then I'll use the boat in Pantheon...
So I'm definitely doing some cherrypicking of these quotes, but I hope I haven't misconstrued people's comments. What I wanted to show is that there seems to be a pretty common theme amongst many of the posters in this thread. People want a reason to ride the boat past A-B.
Boats as a means of travel in and of themselves will have to compete with other forms of travel. Boats are assumed to be the "free" method of crossing the ocean and so must compete with the "fast" method(s) like teleporting or what have you. The four approaches that have been suggested to giving boats a competitive edge are to have fun things to do on the boat, social things to do on a boat, productive things to do on the boat, and have a cost associated with "fast" travel. I would personally be glad to see any or all of these approaches implemented in Pantheon and hopefully the boats aren't relegated to low-class travel status. This is definitely a situation where a negative feedback loop can start, whereby if people stop riding the boat, then the boat is less appealing to ride. As such, it is vital to provide a consistent incentive to ride that won't degrade over time.
I think we should combine boat travel and merchants. No global markets, have the boats also serve as a way to move the goods along the trade route. Then you turn the boat into a spot to barter and sell or sell to the boat merchant See whats been sold and from where. All the while move rather quicky to your destination.
Just going to throw an idea out that I haven't thoroughly considered how it can be applied to Pantheon.
Someone mentioned boats in Sea of Thieves and how beautifully they did sea travel. In that game it was important because the game revolved around the sea and naval combat.
A game I would compare is ArcheAge. Sea travel had a real purpose beyond combat and travel. Boats (as well as carts) made it so you could move goods long distances, and much of the gameplay involved enrichment through those forms of transportation. There was still fast travel, but it didn't allow for moving tradepacks.
Now the problem is that sort of commerce isn't really a form of gameplay in Pantheon. With VR's plan of having of localized banks however, players will need, at times, to transport more items than what they could carry in a single inventory. At that point, having knapsack, tradepack or cart full of items that couldn't be transported via portals, but could be moved via ship might keep boats relevant longer.
They could even make it so teleportation is impossible while the portee is encumbered.
Frogz0r said:Obliquity said:The boats arrived every 15mins in EQ, would just fish for few and then catch the boat.
Wasnt as bad as people want to make it seem.
Exactly. We would always have someone who would yell "BOAT!!!!!" when the boat would come in...I made good friends this way.
Could have an NPC yell out occasionally that the boat is expected to dock in X minutes, or have (as mentioned prior) a message board with time expected for boat arrivals and departures like the flight boards at an airport. Maybe dock bells would ring out when the boat arrives...
There are plenty of things to do while waiting...learn a language, restock your bags, maybe visit the local tavern and play a game of cards or play the lotto from the local gambler chief. Have a drink, visit the merchant...craft a bit?
I remember sitting on the docks waiting for the boat from BB to Freeport, and making silk swatches and getting my tailoring skill up. I would make batwing crunchies and all kinds of food for my guildie, as well as foraging fishing grubs and fishing off the dock...praying that that named aqua goblin didn't sneak up on me. I loved the boat rides, even at high levels, and it made me sad when POK made the world seem so very very small :(
I felt that it was a "way of life" in EQ...part of making the world believable. I don't want to point and click my way around a game world. That doesn't give me anything. Not into the "fast food" games.. what's the point of building a believable fantasy world..if everything you do bypasses that fantasy world. So yeah I'm for taking a boat to get to my destination...15 minutes at most. And I'll be one of the ones...yelling BOAT to let others know its about to dock. Immersive. And if I jump off to explore somewhere..that works too :)
CanadinaXegony said:And I'll be one of the ones...yelling BOAT to let others know its about to dock. Immersive. And if I jump off to explore somewhere..that works too :)
So I know people have suggested many ways to get around the missing of boats and how annoying it is to some who don't want to wait for the boat, even if they still want to take it. But, you (perhaps it's just the way I'm reading into it) showing a fondness for being the boatcaller... perhaps that can be used to an advantage? While I would be fine with some lore-appropriate mechanic of having a lighthouse or something automatic to signal for boat arrivals, maybe we could have volunteer boatcallers. So, if you get to the dock and you're the only one there, maybe you can go to lighthouse or the belltower. When you first see a boat, then you can blow the fog horn or ring the bell for the adjacent region to hear that a boat is arriving. I would probably have a lot of fun doing that at least a couple times :)
Of course this would only work if there was a restriction on when you could actually ring it, so you wouldn't have annoying folks going and blowing the horn or ringing the bell to mess with people.
I am going to say the same things here that most have already said so the Dev's know we ALL want boats like EverQuest. I remember traveling on foot on my troll Shaman all the way from Grobb to Freeport and having to use the hidden secret passage through the wall and through the city to get to the dock. Then when someone yelled "BOAT!" I would sprint out of hiding and get on the boat to travel to Butcher Block just so I could explore the vast world only to find out I was KoS just about everywhere. Good Times! Running, Hiding, Dying, Respawning and trying again, Going Invisible to explore the Dwarf city and the Elf tree city of Kelethin just to come un-invisible un front of the banker and have him chase me all the way to the zone line. All the Elves were pissed shouting in zone chat "where the hell is the banker?" and then I'd yell back "there's a sexy butt scratching green dude kiting him at zone line". Just to mess with them. Ahh, the memories. Back to boats taking one out to hunt the Ancient Cyclops or travel to Kunark. To many memories to list just hoping they see the fun in Boats and their spawn time. I sat and crafted waiting on the boat with an alt monk until I saw it coming into port then I'd try to switch character as fast as I could and catch the boat with my Troll that was hiding. Good times, yes there were problems but there was also workarounds we all learned.
I really enjoyed the boats in Vanguard.... Nice to navigate around when you wanted and where you wanted too as long as you had the right boat for the depth of water. But became kinda useless after your first flying mount.... Ahhh the good old griffon quest.... Great memories ( sorry a little off track)
Boat rides in EQ were a love/hate relationship....I loved to hate them lol. They were great when they worked right. Most times half way through a long trip the boats would glich and if you were lucky to were back at the beginning, if not, well.... your corpse was somewhere deep in the ocean. Then you had to petition and wait for a GM.
If Pantheon can get their boats running well I'd love em. Hope they're not like boats in WoW. Kinda nice to shoot the breeze durring a trip. Hey anyone who was a caster remember the spells books and how we had to manually arrange them? Boat rides gave time for that chore...lol
People should have to take the boat or run the first time they go somewhere. In EQ PoK really ruined the games exploration. You don't realize how big the game was. There were times in EQ where you would have to run from Erudin to Ak'Anon, and back again. Without ports, that takes a long time but you really get a feel for the game.
CanadinaXegony said:Loved boat travel in EQ. Vanguard's boat system was a little glitchy ..got knocked off and drowned a couple times...but no matter we were taking a boat ride with a GM so easy rez lol
A rez may have been easy to get in EQ as well. Though the time lost was not regained. I didn't mind spending time to travel so long as their was progress. It's not respectful of my time imo, to have it needlessly lost, particularly when it would take hours to get around with friends on boats. In EQ people had to often make arrangements to meet on a specific day for a group, dungeon, or whatever if they were all in far flung places. Add to that dying needlessly and also being delayed for no good reason other than a constant glitch is far from enjoyable.
I suspect the answer will be yes ....and no.
There will be boat rides between certain locations that will be quick and easy. There will be other boat rides that are slower and perhaps less easy with possibilities of attack. The former may not be in the game at release. The latter almost surely will not be.
But in large part this depends on what other means of transportation there are. Suppose there are two continents either at release or later. There darn well better be some means of transportation between them since that is a *really* long swim. At least if things are done in the usual MMO way - here in the so-called real world continents can touch eachother or be rather close together. And if we expect people to go back and forth between them to join groups, go back to starter cities, and the like, this transportation needs to be quick and convenient not an adventure in and of itself. On the other hand if some horribly bored magician is posted to send people from one spot to another instantaneously all boat trips can be slow and adventurous - those that want speed can just pay Sally 20 copper pieces and hope the magic works reliably.
It is lovely when things do not turn out the way you ve planned,that is part of going on an adventure
Next to the downtime to form social bonds,ending up in tricky situations together is also an important requirement,forming bonds.
What can happen on the journey itself (the content supporting these boat trips)is just as important and there should be a risk to travel too,otherwise it would not be worthy of the name adventure.
So not only would I love to see boats and stablecoaches tied to a weekly schedule with different destinations.(some destinations day-dependent,others daily accessible)
Players could try to calculate how long it takes for the stablecoach to leave,the estimated journey time in order to get to a destination ,in order to catch a boat on time at that destination.
Some boats would only set sail after a community quest is finished: a long,dangerous trip to an island ,only 1 boat sailing to that destination each week
at what might have appeared like an abandoned dock at first
Sometimes a boat might get stuck in ice when it enters a dangerous cold climat.Sometimes trips get cancelled because of emergency weather.
Part of an adventure is embracing the uncertainty that you'll never know where you'll end up,but then each area has to be worth it to spent meaningful time at
What this thread proves is that when things as trivial as trvel take time then the time in game is more meaningful. We see if in modern games where everything is instant. Group Finder, fast travel, unlocking of new abilities. I genuinely think part of the fun of EQ was the fact that you had to go meet your Master Trainer to gain new skills, buy new spells. You had to actually run to that dungeon, you had to ride that boat. Sure things take a long time but it adds value to when you get things done, it "feels" more significant. Plus, longer gameplay = more fun to me. Burning through content never has appealed to me.
>So not only would I love to see boats and stablecoaches tied to a weekly schedule with different destinations.(some destinations day-dependent,others daily accessible)
Players could try to calculate how long it takes for the stablecoach to leave,the estimated journey time in order to get to a destination ,in order to catch a boat on time at that destination.<
Quite doable. This was the system for travel in Might and Magic VI (both boats and stagecoaches) and that was a LONG time ago.
I find it tedious to travel half way around the world, find a NPC mechant selling the exact same mechandise, I found from the local that I originated from. Boats, major ports and ports of call should be one way how people and mechandise moves from local to another. Regional markets should offer incentive of realistic travel. Resources should also be more abundent to certain regional areas, and more rare in other areas.
dorotea said:>So not only would I love to see boats and stablecoaches tied to a weekly schedule with different destinations.(some destinations day-dependent,others daily accessible)
Players could try to calculate how long it takes for the stablecoach to leave,the estimated journey time in order to get to a destination ,in order to catch a boat on time at that destination.<Quite doable. This was the system for travel in Might and Magic VI (both boats and stagecoaches) and that was a LONG time ago.
I like the idea of a stablecoach. That would be a fun addition to boats, if... the boats actually work lol. In EQ they never did get them to work right, so instead where the boats would dock translocators where added that sent characters to the destination the boats would've taken them. Too bad really because I think boats offer a lovely flavor and ambiance to a game. Makes it more real somehow.
>Too bad really because I think boats offer a lovely flavor and ambiance to a game. Makes it more real somehow.<
Yes. If we are shooting for ambiance and a lot of fun but useless things to do to distract us from the rush to maximum level boats are great, One of my favorite features in Vanguard.
Some of my most memorable MMO travel experiences occured in Final Fantasy XI. I still remember the first time I traveled between the coastal ports Mhuara and Selibina. I was both terrified and yet the experience was quite amazing. I still remember all the players fishing from the boat while other higher-level players awaited the dreaded undead pirate invasions or even special named creatures to spawn. The boat ride lasted roughly 15-20 minutes, and should one have missed the ferry as it was departing, they would have to wait another 15-20 minutes for it's return. It was heart breaking to miss it's departure, but immersive. I would usually spend the time awaiting it's return crafting, fishing on the docks, commit to a bit of spring cleaning in the house, take a power nap, or even chat with good friends. As you gained higher faction with the nations, one would eventually unlock faster forms of travel such as limited mounts and even airships, which made these modes of transportation feel rewarding.
These were good times.
Back in the day, I didn't mind the boat rides in EQ, nor did I mind the 15-minute wait between boats. However, that was back when I was young, single and spent six hours a night gaming. These days, I come home from work, cook dinner and eat with my husband, take care of the dogs and work two more hours on my side job. I'm lucky to play two hours per night. All of a sudden, those 20 minutes (the wait and the ride) would take up a good chunk of my playing time.
There's got to be some kind of "best-of-both-worlds" solution where boat travel is meaningful but doesn't take as long as it did in EQ.
Lghtngfan said:Back in the day, I didn't mind the boat rides in EQ, nor did I mind the 15-minute wait between boats. However, that was back when I was young, single and spent six hours a night gaming. These days, I come home from work, cook dinner and eat with my husband, take care of the dogs and work two more hours on my side job. I'm lucky to play two hours per night. All of a sudden, those 20 minutes (the wait and the ride) would take up a good chunk of my playing time.
There's got to be some kind of "best-of-both-worlds" solution where boat travel is meaningful but doesn't take as long as it did in EQ.
Preplan where you will be traveling so when you only have limited time to play, you are already there on log in.
That or wait for a boat.
Xxar said:Lghtngfan said:Back in the day, I didn't mind the boat rides in EQ, nor did I mind the 15-minute wait between boats. However, that was back when I was young, single and spent six hours a night gaming. These days, I come home from work, cook dinner and eat with my husband, take care of the dogs and work two more hours on my side job. I'm lucky to play two hours per night. All of a sudden, those 20 minutes (the wait and the ride) would take up a good chunk of my playing time.
There's got to be some kind of "best-of-both-worlds" solution where boat travel is meaningful but doesn't take as long as it did in EQ.
Preplan where you will be traveling so when you only have limited time to play, you are already there on log in.
That or wait for a boat.
Exactly. I don't see anything wrong with a journey to another continent or all the way accrost the world taking a day or two (at least) to accomplish.
Day 1) Make the decision to cross to the other side of the world.
Day 2) Journey to the Docks (bring your fishing pole or knitting for time killer if you get there early)
Day 3) Make the journey accrost the Ocean and then on to your destination .
Crossing an entire world or to another content shouldn't be a trivial decision... unless it's a real small world.