Just was looking at the map and some locations like Wilds End and, say, Thronefast or Ru'Lun. Now, Pantheon will have loading screens and all due to zones, got it, but I'm curious how travel times will be handled. In WoW, for example, taking a zeppelin from the Orc capital to the other continent was a simple load screen, the only time issue was that the zeps would spawn on set times (that is, the zep had to have left the far end before it would spawn "arriving" at your end, so if you just missed it, you'd have a 5-10 min wait, but once you were on it and flying, the other end was just a loading screen away.)
At some point, they added another zep that went to the neighboring capital of another of the game's races. But, because these two cities were separated by only one zone, and because WoW doesn't have loading screens when moving around on a single continent (I'm guessing their coding is that the different continents are basically different servers, but within a contenent, it's effectively one big "zone"), you run into this kind of cool situation where the zep woudl actually fly through the sky across the zone in between them. If you were brave/stupid or well prepared (parachutes or reagents to use Slow Fall/Levitate), you could even jump off the zep in mid flight if you wanted to in the zone in between them (and, of course, they added flying at some point.)
But this gave me an interesting perspective on time. Basically, that it took the same amount of time to travel between CONTINENTS across the OCEAN that it took to cross that single zone.
While I think taking a week to get from the Orc capital to the Undead capital would be really annoying, I'm also curious if there will be a time component to traveling between places, or if it will be more "on demand" - I go to a boat captain, pay him my fare, and then 2-3 minutes later am loaded in at my destination.
I'm also curious what other people think about travel like that. Do you think it should take time? Should your character be "on a boat" for 20-30 minutes (with NPCs, vendors, maybe a galley/bar, maybe crafting stations or game corners, being able to walk around topside and look out at the ocean), or should it be a loading screen and you get to where you're going? I think anything more than 20-30 minutes would be to the point people would never use boats, but I also think it's weird when it takes less time to travel between continents than to travel across zones.
...granted, boats SHOULD be faster (and safer) than traveling on foot or even by horse - historically, ships go 20-30 mph corrected for ocean movement whereas most people have a walking speed between 3 and 4 mph if unencumbered, and traveling by some mounts (like mules) isn't much faster, just more cargo capacity, and by others (horses) can be faster, but even then we're talking bycycling speeds - a horse isn't going to run full out for hours on end. So it does make sense that they aren't slow. But how fast should they be? How fast should non-portal travel be in general?
And should this be different depending on where you're going? Wild's End to Thronefast, for example, or to Ru'Lun, look like fairly short trips. Syronai's Rest, on the other hand, is basically on the other side of the world. Should it take longer to make that trip?
Or is this a case where convenience would outweight "realism" to most people?
Just curious what people think. :)
Going at a realistic pace thru 1 water zone should suffice, especially if you have to travel thru town to get to and from the docks. EQ boats were great, if you've never gone afk on an EQ boat and come back to find yourself swimming in the middle of nowhere with no land in sight....wait..this is sounding like, 'in my day we had to walk uphill in the snow to school...both ways!'
Any form of mass travel should still have to travel through the zones one would on foot, just at a faster pace. If one chooses to use this form of travel, but only wishes to go half way (IE: jump off mid journey) they should be allowed, assuming the jump doesn't kill them.
EQ1 boats had their issues, but most everyone adapted to them quickly and the time they required to travel. Most used it as a chance to take a break, get a drink, do some research, chat, whatever.
And it would be cool if they were more like the EQ boats or like busses, that stop multiple places along the route,rather than just end points.
I would like them to take some time. Even better if they were their own zone. Only because I want the chance of owning my own boat. I think that would be awesome. One of the good things I took away from Archeage were the boats and how the open waters were treated.
I'd love to have boat rides take time. I used to love waiting for the boat because it gave you a chance to chat with guild mates while you were waiting as well as chatting with other people in the zone. I also enjoyed that zone (forgot its name now unfortunately) with all the islands in it with different mobs. The boat also stopped off on multiple islands so you could choose where to get off. That made it a bit more fun to travel in the game and made going from one continent to another a bit of a mission so you felt like you had achieved something when you finally reached your destination.
I would love boats to take time long as they have meaning. For example, taking a boat has a chance at pirate attacks on the deck, while low level people can still stay under and not worry about dying.
Granted I personally love scenery and would take a boat ride that had good music with awesome scenery just for the sake of listening/seeing it all.
I think it's fun to take a boat ride instead of just being warped to the destination, but these games are already enough of a time sink. Sometimes we might only have an hour or so to play. Who wants to spend all that time getting to where we want to play? I think a balance should be struck.
And yeah, let's give druids and wizards the ability to port, or some similar arrangement.
Searril said:The rose colored nostalgia is strong in this thread :)
hehe
I seem to recall falling *through* the boat once (probably crossing a zone) then drowning. Took me AGES to find and get my corpse. Seriously, HOURS! ...and I had to get help for some of it!
Having said that, I did enjoy the boats and used them frequently. I loved the danger of the boat ride into 'The Overthere' where I had to jump ship before port and skirt the scary-ass outpost with mega undead stuff in it! The lengthy and awesome boat ride to velious was also fantastic and took quite a while!
PS: Anyone else got onto the wrong ship by accident at Butcherblock docks? ... oooh sooo not good!
Evoras said:PS: Anyone else got onto the wrong ship by accident at Butcherblock docks? ... oooh sooo not good!
Yes! Lol. Granted I was 10 when I first started playing EQ and a lot of my time was spent exploring and trying to dodge death. So although I got on the wrong boat, it was still a win/win for me in the end.
IMO, yes traveling should take some amount of time. I enjoyed the boat rides in EQ and in WoW. I prefer that the ride doesn't take "too long", like 20 mins would be too long for me. I would be find with a 10-15 min ride? There is a balance between making something fun that anchors you to the world and then making something tedious.
I think that boat rides, if they are in the game, should be just long enough to make you reconsider whether you truly want to take one or not. If you decide to leave the continet/area you are in in order to travel to a new continent/area, then you should, most definitely, be made to wait a period of time in order to reach your destination. I sincerely hope that insta-port travel is NOT included in this game. It will not be a deal breaker for me, but it would seriously lessen the experience for me. Part of being in a virtual world (for me anyways) is it actually FEELING like I'm in a real world. It takes me fifteen minutes to get to Best Buy, and I don't mind that. Why should it be such a big deal if it takes the same amount of time to travel from on continet to another?
For me it depends on what's involved with the boat ride. If all you're doing is sitting around watching the scenery go by, then 10-15 minutes is plenty of time. However, if there are big ships with stuff going on on board, then they could be much longer. Some ideas for what could be implemented on a ship:
-- There's been a lot of discussion about auction houses lately. It sounds like the team is leaning toward assisted trading of some sort on a localized scope. Why not use large ships as one of these locales? This might help to establish 'trade routes' of a sort, and browsing through available wares would be a good way to kill time if boat rides take a while.
-- There have also been a few threads about a desire for mini-games like those implemented in a lot of Final Fantasy games. If there were bars on board ships where people could socialize and engage in activities like that, then that would also help pass the time.
-- PvP, Add a little mini-arena or a few 'sparring rooms' where people can duke it out for fun. Loser wakes up in a cabin, no death penalty, it's just for fun.
-- NPC's to talk to: Maybe even some rare-ones that can provide glimpses into Terminus' history that aren't available anywhere else.
Basically, if there are enough options for things to do, then ship rides could take a very long time. In some ways this might be a great thing for the game, as it will prevent frivolous travel and keep the continents separated, yet those who need to travel wouldn't find themselves losing most of a play session with nothing to do but stare at the water while trying to get from point A to point B.
-- Additional idea - camping out on the boat. If you buy a ticket from one continent to another you can do it at the end of your play session and just camp out at the dock or on the ship. When you log on next, you find yourself at the destination dock (assuming the ship has already made it's run) or on the ship if the trip is still underway when you come back. This way if the oceans are really large you can still have really long boat rides, but spare the players from waiting them out if they plan their travel properly.
Searril said:The rose colored nostalgia is strong in this thread :)
Yeah, boats were buggy, but it was just accepted. I never minded the time it took to take the boats because that was a good time for a break: Quick bite to eat, bathroom run, stand up and stretch, etc.
I expect boat rides to again take time though this time around I'll expect them to be bug-free. :)
Sometimes I want to log in to p99 just to ride the boat and listen to the music. Just the idea that there were far off places and everything wasn't instantly accessible made EQ an amazing and unique game.
I expect the same from Pantheon.
I would like boats to take a while. I would aso like two boat systems:
1) Ferry type boats. Boats that have a pre-determined route to get from one point to antother.
2) Controllable boats. Boats that are controllable by players allowing for exploration at sea just as on land.
I think it would be neat to discover an island chain that is not on the route of the f erry boats.
Adding to my previous post where I said that I'd like long boat rides. In Vanguard you could actually craft your own boats and then do your own travelling. That would be cool as well if Pantheon had something similar. It would give crafters something really cool to build and would give players something that they would really want to own as it would speed up travelling from one continent to another.
Basically it is the best of both worlds. You can use the normal boats before you have the money / resources to build your own boat and then when you do have the money / resources you can buy or build your own. Also if you had lots of money you could build a boat that you could take your friends on as well and maybe even give boat rides to lowbies for a small sum of money to make some extra cash.
Cromulent said:... In Vanguard you could actually craft your own boats and then do your own travelling...
I never played Vanguard, I'm curious what size boat you could build and what happened to it after you disembarked? What if you forgot where you left it? Can I be a pirate?
Would love it if boat rides were handled like they were in Eq1. Ocean of tears for example was a fantastic zone where you could explore and hunt at many different lvl ranges.
Only thing I would change is some sort of schedule/indication, so you will know when the next boat will arrive (so you can choose to wait for example 20mins while fishing some...) or take a short afk or whatever.
Would be great, as mentioned above, if the boats would contain some Npc's.
coach said:Cromulent said:... In Vanguard you could actually craft your own boats and then do your own travelling...
I never played Vanguard, I'm curious what size boat you could build and what happened to it after you disembarked? What if you forgot where you left it? Can I be a pirate?
Check out this video on YouTube (made by someone else).