Raidan said:Dullahan said:I'm basically all for any form of gameplay that allows different types of players to find a place within the virtual world. In my perfect MMO, there will be people who never pick up a sword or cast a spell, yet play every day and have a significant role in the world.
I echo Dullahan's quoted statement. I would still be one that would fall in the Adventurer sphere, but I want the virtual world feeling that would be created by multiple forms of challenging gameplay.
And, I've stated it quite a bit on these forums, but I would want a robust skill system similar to Project Gorgon; however, I wouldn't want the skill system tied directly to level progression, but as another form of alternate progression with mastery of skills giving minor bonuses.
Basically, I want options/variety (especially at end-game), but options that stay true to Pantheon's tenets - mainly challenging gameplay.
THis^...
Retsof said:AOE Looting
Seperate inventory spaces for crafting, etc (like neverwinter's crafting)
VG Offensive/ Defensive targeting: This was soooo huge that I assumed that all MMOS afterwards would implement it. I am surprised they have not.
VG Crafting
VG Diplomacy
VG Outfits for adventure, crafting, diplomacy
Totally agree :) VG was revolutionary for its time !
So understanding the immediate flack that I am going to take for bringing up a feature of this game....
I like varied gameplay that offers options, and WoW has been very good at giving options for different kinds of solo gameplay. I wish WoW was more serious about it's group play, but that's not for this discussion....
Their follower and naval battles that play sorta like a facebook game would be something interesting to do while LFG. Even the pet battles (which I don't get into) offer something to do other than leveling that encourages people of different types to exist in the world.
But honestly I would like to see a mix of WoW garrisons, SWTOR and Vanguard crafting. An estate that you can build up, customize to produce raw materials, refine them using your followers, and then you use the refined materials to create finished products.
Something of this nature while maintaining the adventure exp of a game like EQ and Vanguard would be a game that would be hard to walk away from.... for anybody.
Dullahan said:I'd say if we need aoe looting, something is wrong with the rate mobs are being killed.
Why have to click 5 times when 1 would suffice? Or better yet, zero times. But it's also about targeting. If you have a pile of 8 dead gnolls on top of each other, how do you know if you looted them all or if maybe you clicked the same one twice? Happens to me all the time in EQ.
Dullahan said:I'd say if we need aoe looting, something is wrong with the rate mobs are being killed.
I'm interested by this statement. Can you expand on it a bit?
Are you saying that if there are that many adds that come from a pull that there is something inherently wrong with the game's mechanics? Or that mobs shouldn't be killed so fast that corpses would be dropping at a rate where AoE looting is needed? I'm genuinely confused.
In EQ, at least before /hidecorpse was an option (Or before I knew /hidecorpse was an option), you would have mobs scattered all throughout your group. A member would examine the contents, see nothing of worth, and leave it. What I would absolutely love is the ability to AoE loot, with the ability to AoE DESTROY for loot that's not worth the trouble, as a way to clear corpses from the area.
One screen that pops up with all the loot in every corpse within a given radius. This screen has checkboxes. You check the boxes for those that you want to loot, and the rest get's destroyed. Something along those lines.
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As to the original question, that's a tough one. I can't think of a single mechanic from MMO's I've played that are 5 years old or less that I want to see in Pantheon. Somebody mentioned the Foundry system from Neverwinter. I thought that as far as innovation goes, it was a pretty cool idea, but for a game like Neverwinter I thought it was just lazy. To me it screamed "We don't have enough content, much less enjoyable content, so how about you the players do the work for us?"
Others mentioned VG, and a few other games, but that doesn't really fit the criteria of the 5 years old or less question. That makes it tough. Part of the reason we're all here is because the most recent games just haven't really done it for us.
ESO attempted to make their MMO as close to the Single Player titles as possible. I believe they missed the mark, but they tried. One thing they tried was being able to interact with as much of the world as possible, such as searching barrels and boxes and bookshelves. I like that. Being able to search a bookshelf in a random house and find a book with some interesting Lore would be pretty cool.
Along the same vein, being able to steal from NPC's that way is another fun dynamic. Stealing basic crafting materials from a blacksmithing NPC. If caught, it effects faction somehow. Something like that.
Tough one.
Dullahan said:I'd say if we need aoe looting, something is wrong with the rate mobs are being killed.
Need is the wrong word to use. Manually having to right click things after killing them is a redundancy. There's no reason an automatic system couldn't do that for you.
Also I disagree with the premise of your post altogether. An experienced group that is shredding through an XP spot is going to generate a mountain of corpses, and having to designate one guy to right click them all is silly. It's why hidecorpse is/was a feature in EQ.
Dullahan said:I don't think anything should be automatic. Its a virtual world, so expecting the game to magically empty the pockets of monsters and transfer the items to your pockets is silly.
Of course players should have to manually examine a corpse and search the remains.
It's a video game. "Virtual world" is a buzzword.
Are you against:
I can probably list a thousand things this game will already do for you automatically. There is no "of course" to it.
Liav said:Dullahan said:I don't think anything should be automatic. Its a virtual world, so expecting the game to magically empty the pockets of monsters and transfer the items to your pockets is silly.
Of course players should have to manually examine a corpse and search the remains.
It's a video game. "Virtual world" is a buzzword.
Are you against:
- Auto attack
- Tab targeting (automatically aiming your attacks at an enemy)
- Automatic HP tracking (I should look at my character's wounds to see if I'm damaged?)
I can probably list a thousand things this game will already do for you automatically. There is no "of course" to it.
Of course Dullahan is right. And I don't agree at all that Virtual World is a buzz word. That's what differentiated EQ and other older MMO's like Asheron's Call and Dark Age of Camelot and Vanguard from other newer MMO's. I would even say that WoW started out as a virtual world and eventually turned into a more of a video game.
And the only thing that you listed that is automated is the Health Bar because I can't feel how badly hurt I am. The other two are in the players control. I select the monster I want to attack with Tab (or click on it) and attack by pushing Q and then select additional attacks or spells with hotkeys. Until I get my holodeck keyboard presses are gonna have to do. If I want to pick up something I again push a button to do that. For each item. I shouldn't be able to genie everything into my bags... unles I am a genie of course. :)
Off the top of my head, I would like to see absolutely everything from the past 5-10 years avoided in PROTF. I would like to see no "new" game mechanics/features included in PROTF.
I am the crotchety old guy shakin' my fist and screaming "get offa my lawn you damn kids!" I view everything that has come out in the past 10 years as being nothing but dumbing-down, instant gratification methods pawned off as new mechanics or new features:
The "best" thing you can do for PRTOF is make a list of features and mechanics introduced during the past ten years and put them automatically on the "fobidden features" list in the Dev's handbook.
Malsirian said:Of course Dullahan is right. And I don't agree at all that Virtual World is a buzz word. That's what differentiated EQ and other older MMO's like Asheron's Call and Dark Age of Camelot and Vanguard from other newer MMO's. I would even say that WoW started out as a virtual world and eventually turned into a more of a video game.
And the only thing that you listed that is automated is the Health Bar because I can't feel how badly hurt I am. The other two are in the players control. I select the monster I want to attack with Tab (or click on it) and attack by pushing Q and then select additional attacks or spells with hotkeys. Until I get my holodeck keyboard presses are gonna have to do. If I want to pick up something I again push a button to do that. For each item. I shouldn't be able to genie everything into my bags... unles I am a genie of course. :)
Auto attack isn't something automated, as opposed to something like action-based combat in TERA? Yeah, okay.
And no, Dullahan is not "right". You can claim that you share his opinion, but you can't claim that he is "right", not unless you feel like providing some evidence for it. You can start by describing where exactly the line is drawn between "video game" and "virtual world", because to me, "virtual world" is simply a marketing term with no clear definition. In a strictly literal sense, every video game ever made is a "virtual world". Claiming that it is more immersive than other games is not good enough to make that distinction, for me.
fazool said:Off the top of my head, I would like to see absolutely everything from the past 5-10 years avoided in PROTF. I would like to see no "new" game mechanics/features included in PROTF.
I am the crotchety old guy shakin' my fist and screaming "get offa my lawn you damn kids!" I view everything that has come out in the past 10 years as being nothing but dumbing-down, instant gratification methods pawned off as new mechanics or new features:
- Auto/AOE looting
- Instanced zones
- Offline auction houses
- Instant teleport to group
- Macro scripting
- Auto tradeskill combines
- Auto quest journals
- Auto maps
- Remote banking
- Player Housing
- Portal hubs
- Guild halls
- etcetera
The "best" thing you can do for PRTOF is make a list of features and mechanics introduced during the past ten years and put them automatically on the "fobidden features" list in the Dev's handbook.
You're basically saying that you're opposed to any feature that came out after 1999. At least you phrased the first paragraph of your post in such a way that you acknowledge that no one should bother engaging with you because you're already bigoted towards people who don't want to play Classic EQ Emulator In Unity.
fazool said:Off the top of my head, I would like to see absolutely everything from the past 5-10 years avoided in PROTF. I would like to see no "new" game mechanics/features included in PROTF.
I am the crotchety old guy shakin' my fist and screaming "get offa my lawn you damn kids!" I view everything that has come out in the past 10 years as being nothing but dumbing-down, instant gratification methods pawned off as new mechanics or new features:
- Auto/AOE looting. Please explain instant gratification
- Instanced zones
- Offline auction houses
- Instant teleport to group
- Macro scripting
- Auto tradeskill combines
- Auto quest journals
- Auto maps
- Remote banking
- Player Housing Pleas explin instant gratification
- Portal hubs
- Guild halls Please explain instant gratification
- etcetera
The "best" thing you can do for PRTOF is make a list of features and mechanics introduced during the past ten years and put them automatically on the "fobidden features" list in the Dev's handbook.
So you want everquest thats all you had to say we didnt need a list
-AoE loot
-1 window bags
*The one thing I despise the most when going back to P99 is interacting with items. (No, I do not mean I'm against weight and limited space). I want the game world/monster to be challenging, not interacting with it/the UI
-Automatic trash loot round-robin and need/greed rolling on magic items (if decided so by the party leader)
-GW2 crafting material bank (but remote storing from anywhere in the world is a bit much IMO)
-WoW pet collecting (but I don't care all that much about the fighting)
-FF14 Hunting Log
-VG crafting
-VG ground mount (with the satchel, horse shoe, etc)
Liav said:Dullahan said:I don't think anything should be automatic. Its a virtual world, so expecting the game to magically empty the pockets of monsters and transfer the items to your pockets is silly.
Of course players should have to manually examine a corpse and search the remains.
It's a video game. "Virtual world" is a buzzword.
Are you against:
- Auto attack
- Tab targeting (automatically aiming your attacks at an enemy)
- Automatic HP tracking (I should look at my character's wounds to see if I'm damaged?)
I can probably list a thousand things this game will already do for you automatically. There is no "of course" to it.
Thats the problem, to you a virtual world is a buzzword. To the rest of us it means a simulated reality in a fantasy setting.
I am for as much realism as possible in my world. If there was a practical way to replace tab targeting or hp tracking, I would 100% be for it.
fazool said:Off the top of my head, I would like to see absolutely everything from the past 5-10 years avoided in PROTF. I would like to see no "new" game mechanics/features included in PROTF.
I am the crotchety old guy shakin' my fist and screaming "get offa my lawn you damn kids!" I view everything that has come out in the past 10 years as being nothing but dumbing-down, instant gratification methods pawned off as new mechanics or new features:
- Auto/AOE looting
- Instanced zones
- Offline auction houses
- Instant teleport to group
- Macro scripting
- Auto tradeskill combines
- Auto quest journals
- Auto maps
- Remote banking
- Player Housing
- Portal hubs
- Guild halls
- etcetera
The "best" thing you can do for PRTOF is make a list of features and mechanics introduced during the past ten years and put them automatically on the "fobidden features" list in the Dev's handbook.
This is a bit ...excessive.
Dullahan said:Thats the problem, to you a virtual world is a buzzword. To the rest of us it means a simulated reality in a fantasy setting.
I am for as much realism as possible in my world. If there was a practical way to replace tab targeting or hp tracking, I would 100% be for it.
There are practical ways, I mean, numerous new games have action-style combat without any type of hard targeting system. The problem is that it's completely against the game's tenets in trying to adhere to more classical game mechanics.
I'm not disputing that Pantheon is a "simulated reality in a fantasy setting". My dispute is with the fact that this does not contradict the fact that Pantheon is a video game. As with all video games, there are automated elements.
Right clicking a body after something dies is cool and all, until there's a pile of 30 corpses (as there often was in EQ) and suddenly you can't target anything well, and you have someone scrambling around trying to loot everything. Then afterwards you have to spend time selling and splitting everything, which can get kind of convoluted when someone leaves the group early and doesn't get compensated because they don't have the time to figure out what their split is.
EQ already had the option to autosplit coin as it is looted. There's no reason loot can't be handled in a similar manner.
Tralyan said:fazool said:Off the top of my head, I would like to see absolutely everything from the past 5-10 years avoided in PROTF. I would like to see no "new" game mechanics/features included in PROTF.
I am the crotchety old guy shakin' my fist and screaming "get offa my lawn you damn kids!" I view everything that has come out in the past 10 years as being nothing but dumbing-down, instant gratification methods pawned off as new mechanics or new features:
- Auto/AOE looting
- Instanced zones
- Offline auction houses
- Instant teleport to group
- Macro scripting
- Auto tradeskill combines
- Auto quest journals
- Auto maps
- Remote banking
- Player Housing
- Portal hubs
- Guild halls
- etcetera
The "best" thing you can do for PRTOF is make a list of features and mechanics introduced during the past ten years and put them automatically on the "fobidden features" list in the Dev's handbook.
This is a bit ...excessive.
Yea....... have to agree.
Tralyan said:fazool said:Off the top of my head, I would like to see absolutely everything from the past 5-10 years avoided in PROTF. I would like to see no "new" game mechanics/features included in PROTF.
I am the crotchety old guy shakin' my fist and screaming "get offa my lawn you damn kids!" I view everything that has come out in the past 10 years as being nothing but dumbing-down, instant gratification methods pawned off as new mechanics or new features:
- Auto/AOE looting
- Instanced zones
- Offline auction houses
- Instant teleport to group
- Macro scripting
- Auto tradeskill combines
- Auto quest journals
- Auto maps
- Remote banking
- Player Housing
- Portal hubs
- Guild halls
- etcetera
The "best" thing you can do for PRTOF is make a list of features and mechanics introduced during the past ten years and put them automatically on the "fobidden features" list in the Dev's handbook.
This is a bit ...excessive.
LOL I loved this! Nice!!!
Ox
On the whole auto-loot/multi-loot thing. I have encountered manually looting and auto/multi-looting. Its one of those things that I could go either way on. Though I will say that FFXI did it kinda different. Playing solo loot dropped directly to inventory. Playing with 2 or more added the addition of letting leader collect loot (and it would be up to them to redistribute). Or items could go into a sort of que inventory for the group and folks would cast lots on individual items they wanted (Not using this for most situations was considered rude) Lots were RNGed 1-99 (or maybe 999 i forget) and the highest number got the loot. Usually considered the raid leaders job to say who was allowed to lot on what. For instance a Monk item drops and there are 3 monks in the raid, more than likely only the Monks would be allowed to lot in this situation. But attendance or other factors might play into it as well. Of course you could ignore the Lot as well and after so many mins items would be randomly distrubuted. I dont know that this really adds more "depth" for those that want more or takes away from the "trivial" for those that want less. Just a different perspective.
On the other hand I could really be more pro manually looting if it tied into neet options like Project Gorgon autopsy, those ARE fun.
Liav said:There are practical ways, I mean, numerous new games have action-style combat without any type of hard targeting system. The problem is that it's completely against the game's tenets in trying to adhere to more classical game mechanics.
I'm not disputing that Pantheon is a "simulated reality in a fantasy setting". My dispute is with the fact that this does not contradict the fact that Pantheon is a video game. As with all video games, there are automated elements.
I don't consider targeting in action combat games practical at all. Its actually quite horrible. It also changes the combat from traditional RPG to more of an aim based system.
Yes, both auto looting and almost everything you champion on these forums is an attempt to supplant anything suitable for simulated reality with gamey convenience mechanics. Alas, we digress.
Brax said:Its either more than 5 years in Lord of the Rings online or a game not released in Shroud of the Avatar.
ABC Notation System
This is a possibility to write music in an ascii file. For more information I have a link to wiki. I’m not a musician, but I spend hours and hours to listen to player groups in pubs or where ever. Its realy awesome to listen some of these groups. For an example search youtube for "lotro music band"
+1
Dullahan said:I don't consider targeting in action combat games practical at all. Its actually quite horrible. It also changes the combat from traditional RPG to more of an aim based system.
Yes, both auto looting and almost everything you champion on these forums is an attempt to supplant anything suitable for simulated reality with gamey convenience mechanics. Alas, we digress.
You're using a weird definition of practical, considering that TERA is pretty revered for the quality of its combat system.
It sounds more like you're trying to say "I don't like it". I'm also not trying to "supplant anything suitable for simulated reality". I'm just a pragmatist who understands that Pantheon is a video game, not real life, and that things that make the user experience more streamlined and enjoyable aren't mutually exclusive with the tenets of the game.
Not everything has to be archaic and weird.