NoobieDoo said:Krixus said:There should not be any "live" map in game that tells you where you are. Use landmarks, use your memory, learn the zones. If there's cartography or some other form of static map making, whatever. But an on screen minimap flies in the face of everything this game is about.
In EQ the map has a 'live' position indicator of where you are at on the map. At least it does on the progression servers map system. I'm pretty sure it was like this in the original EQ back when I played around PoP era. Wasn't it? I'm not 100% certain.
If it was do you want this removed? I'm just curious because I know how much you like EQ and I feel like the position indicator is something EQ had but is something you don't want for PRotF. Or if the way EQ did it was fine and you'd be fine if PRotF had something like it. Because even though the map was simple and had the indicator, it was rather atrocious at times when a bunch of NPC names were globbed together and there were outlines of every single object in that same area. It was still very possible to get lost.
I like the fog of war idea and/or cartography skill idea. I'd prefer to do away with any mini-map, the quest markers above NPC's heads, and just have a giant map you could look at. Entering a zone you've never been to would show a blank map that as you walked around it would clear up the 'fog of war' OR you could purchase a map from somewhere and have the zone's map on hand. I think I'd prefer an indicator showing you where you were but only because I rarely rely on the map in the first place. And using the map and indicator helps me when I'm SUPER lost which isn't often and usually only happens when I need to find a bedroom sized building within the back alleyway of some giant kingdom.
It was not a "feature" of the original game through at least velious.
NoobieDoo said:I understand what you are saying with these immersion breaking scenarios and I agree but your hero scenario is skewed a tad I'd think...
Yeah, I eventually somewhat exaggerated to make a point. I was saying that I didn't find getting lost particularly heroic or immersive. People argued against me as if I'd suggested heros never get lost or said maps are immersive. It happens in this forum it seems: you make a couple of suggestions or play devil's advocate in the interest of discussion and get 'taken on' like you were championing evil.
I've quoted you but I'm not criticising you directly, NoobieDoo - you seem to give reasoned and tempered arguments.
Krixus said:NoobieDoo said:Krixus said:There should not be any "live" map in game that tells you where you are. Use landmarks, use your memory, learn the zones. If there's cartography or some other form of static map making, whatever. But an on screen minimap flies in the face of everything this game is about.
In EQ the map has a 'live' position indicator of where you are at on the map. At least it does on the progression servers map system. I'm pretty sure it was like this in the original EQ back when I played around PoP era. Wasn't it? I'm not 100% certain.
If it was do you want this removed? I'm just curious because I know how much you like EQ and I feel like the position indicator is something EQ had but is something you don't want for PRotF. Or if the way EQ did it was fine and you'd be fine if PRotF had something like it. Because even though the map was simple and had the indicator, it was rather atrocious at times when a bunch of NPC names were globbed together and there were outlines of every single object in that same area. It was still very possible to get lost.
I like the fog of war idea and/or cartography skill idea. I'd prefer to do away with any mini-map, the quest markers above NPC's heads, and just have a giant map you could look at. Entering a zone you've never been to would show a blank map that as you walked around it would clear up the 'fog of war' OR you could purchase a map from somewhere and have the zone's map on hand. I think I'd prefer an indicator showing you where you were but only because I rarely rely on the map in the first place. And using the map and indicator helps me when I'm SUPER lost which isn't often and usually only happens when I need to find a bedroom sized building within the back alleyway of some giant kingdom.It was not a "feature" of the original game through at least velious.
Gotcha, I didnt play until PoP released I think which is why I feel like it has always been there.
disposalist said:NoobieDoo said:I understand what you are saying with these immersion breaking scenarios and I agree but your hero scenario is skewed a tad I'd think...Yeah, I eventually somewhat exaggerated to make a point. I was saying that I didn't find getting lost particularly heroic or immersive. People argued against me as if I'd suggested heros never get lost or said maps are immersive. It happens in this forum it seems: you make a couple of suggestions or play devil's advocate in the interest of discussion and get 'taken on' like you were championing evil.
I've quoted you but I'm not criticising you directly, NoobieDoo - you seem to give reasoned and tempered arguments.
NoobieDoo said:disposalist said:I've ALWAYS tried to be the 'voice of reason' among large crowds but if I feel like I'm being 'pushed around' then I can get quite snarky. Ugly even.NoobieDoo said:I understand what you are saying with these immersion breaking scenarios and I agree but your hero scenario is skewed a tad I'd think...Yeah, I eventually somewhat exaggerated to make a point. I was saying that I didn't find getting lost particularly heroic or immersive. People argued against me as if I'd suggested heros never get lost or said maps are immersive. It happens in this forum it seems: you make a couple of suggestions or play devil's advocate in the interest of discussion and get 'taken on' like you were championing evil.I've quoted you but I'm not criticising you directly, NoobieDoo - you seem to give reasoned and tempered arguments.
I know what you mean though by feeling like you get taken on at times. The great thing about EQ, VG, and most certainly Pantheon is how passionate their communities are. You might have to fight your way out of a corner, or just an open room at times, but at least everyone here want's a great game and most of the people want close to the same thing.
Now, I really need to get to bed lol.
Lol 3am. Talk about passionate ;^) It was about 0230 for me last night hehe
I'm pretty sure whatever Pantheon come up with we'll really enjoy it and, yes, we all want basically the same thing. Immersion, community, challenge, fun, excitement, gnomes, etc.
In general we think the Pantheon community has spoken loud and clear that they're not interested in an in-game map/radar type UI element. That said, if a significant subset of Pantheon players did want something like that we could always just have it available on a particular server/shard.
A radar type close in map *can* help with situational awareness, and knowing what's going on around you in Pantheon is already very important.
On the other hand, anything that would spoil the game, interfere with exploration, etc. is not something we are interested in. People will make spoiler sites with maps and such regardless, so really it's up to the individual: play Pantheon and learn the world, make your own maps, etc. or use the spoiler sites to assist you.
