disposalist said:Larirawiel said:I find EXP loss too harsh. Because it will force you to grind the lost EXP back. And i do not think that to be forced to grind belongs to a modern MMORPGWhen I died in EQ P99 I always like to think of it like "well, I get to explore more stuff that's appropriate to this level, then".
There would have to be a serious lack of content at any particular level to *force* you to do boring grinding to re-gain lost XP. Did you grind to get XP in that level in the first place? Are you not enjoying playing the game at that level?
Presumably, you were enjoying the game when you died. Why are you forced to do something that is not just as enjoyable while getting the XP back?
Personally, I rarely mind losing XP as long as there's fun things to do. In most games I have found myself levelling so fast I out-level all the content that appropriate before I can experience it.
XP loss isn't really as drastic as people make out unless you don't enjoy levels 1-49 or you're in some kind of race to the end-game, which is a bit sad, no?
If there are many repeatable ways to get lost EXP back then i'm fine with it. :) But creating simple grind spots is propably the easiest job for the devs. This is the reason why i guess, that there will be many grind spots.
The death penalty in WoW was not so bad. Your items lost durability and you had to repair them via a NPC merchant. And there were many ways to get the necessary gold. One way was mob grind. :)
Greetings
What I definately do Not want to see if gear damage. I'm fine with EQ's penalty.
I think gear damage would destroy the feel of the game if a game similiar to the original EQ is the goal. If the enchanter or cleric in the group dies several times in a few hours then he would have to be kicked out and replaced or the group would have to take an hour break for them to repair, it just doesnt fit with the style of game that's being presented to us.
Gear repair would single handedly make it feel like a 2nd gen mmo second only to fast travel.
I'm fine with gear damage on top of xp loss and corpse run. If there is gear damage perhaps the xp loss could be slightly less perhaps, but other than that I dont mind both.
bert said:What I definately do Not want to see if gear damage. I'm fine with EQ's penalty.
I think gear damage would destroy the feel of the game if a game similiar to the original EQ is the goal. If the enchanter or cleric in the group dies several times in a few hours then he would have to be kicked out and replaced or the group would have to take an hour break for them to repair, it just doesnt fit with the style of game that's being presented to us.
Gear repair would single handedly make it feel like a 2nd gen mmo second only to fast travel.
Not if you have a crafter in your group who can do repairs. Not if you can purchase patch kits from crafters that can temporarily sustain gear so that you dont have to leave a group.
[Edit: Welcome to the community Bert :) ]
If the plan is to implement 'gear damage', whether in addition to XP loss, or to mitigate some of it then:
Equipment has:
Durability_MAX (DUR_MAX) (based on construction material and enchantment)
Durability_Current (DUR_CUR) (Dependent on damage done, ie 'current condition').
When equipment is used or damaged:
Regular Damage: reduces DUR_CUR almost exclusively, perhaps up to 0-5% of this also to DUR_MAX
Calculated as Weapon_Type vs Body_Type
Falling Damage: reduces DUR_CUR mainly, mebbe up to 5-15% of this also to DUR_MAX
Calculated as Crushing damage vs Body_Type
Critical Damage: Reduces DUR_CUR mainly, with perhaps 10-20% of this also to DUR_MAX
Any 'Death Blow' counts as 'Critical Damage' even if it wasn't.
Repair Options:
Field Repairs: Only refills (mainly) the DUR_CUR with small partial refill to DUR_MAX
Town Repairs: Can repair MOST, if not ALL of the DUR_MAX. Depends on Crafter Skill.
Thus, a 'rusty dagger' would have a DUR_MAX = 20 while a 'Legendary Mithril Breastplate of the Dragon' might have DUR_MAX = 10,000. The dagger could be repaired by a PC or NPC smith a 'fair' number of times before the DUR_MAX falls to 0 and cannot be repaired. The Legendary BP can be repaired many more times, but would need a very high-level Crafter to repair its DUR_MAX to anywhere near its original maximum value. It is likely that some of the damage would not be repairable though.
So, PCs 'in the field' *could* do some field repairs on worn weapons, or even run them to a nearby village smithy for field repairs should he not be able to do it himself. This would fix minor dents or re-sharpening of armour/weapons to get on with - but any 'serious' damage to the equipment (reductions to DUR_MAX) would have to be fixed later when they got to a proper smithy with the needed tools / crafting station high quality enough to do the repairs.
PS: Exp penalty should not be *replaced* by equipment damage.
Obliquity said:Players wouldnt carry any coins if they were going to do anything risky. Would be better to keep crafting, travel ( waiting for boats not instant travel ) and banking in the main cities plus having random events there.
Death= CR to get your gear and Xp loss scaled to level, have a summon your corpse altar that could cost x amount and that character is logged out for 4 hours after using the altar. That would give players who have limited time a way to bypass the Corpse Run they would still have the xp loss tho.
I'm good with everything except the forced logout portion.
If you use the alter, you're already taking the max xp penalty (I assume there is not xp recover when using this option), and include a monetary cost to use the alter, that could scale up per death over a certain period (IE: doubles for each death within a 24 hour period), and possibly some sort of rez sickness that would deter anyone from trying to reenter the wild.
Fulton said:Obliquity said:Players wouldnt carry any coins if they were going to do anything risky. Would be better to keep crafting, travel ( waiting for boats not instant travel ) and banking in the main cities plus having random events there.
Death= CR to get your gear and Xp loss scaled to level, have a summon your corpse altar that could cost x amount and that character is logged out for 4 hours after using the altar. That would give players who have limited time a way to bypass the Corpse Run they would still have the xp loss tho.
I'm good with everything except the forced logout portion.
If you use the alter, you're already taking the max xp penalty (I assume there is not xp recover when using this option), and include a monetary cost to use the alter, that could scale up per death over a certain period (IE: doubles for each death within a 24 hour period), and possibly some sort of rez sickness that would deter anyone from trying to reenter the wild.
Reasoning for the forced logout would be that it would only be used by people that didnt have time to do the CR. Most would be going to bed or work etc, the 4 hour penalty wouldnt really effect them, would encourage people with the time to do the CR.
Shadowbane was my first MMO back in 2003 and I think the Death Penalty was handled pretty well. This is from the Wiki:
Dying in Shadowbane carries a few penalties:
Inflicts a temporary "death shroud", which reduces defense and attack rating by 100% as well as blocking the casting of any powers.
All armor, jewelry, and weapons will take percent-based damage that may accumulate and eventually destroy them if not repaired (for instance, at a vendor).
Any items in one's inventory will remain at the place of death in a universally lootable corpse (represented by a tombstone).
The character is transported to his bind point, and will need to return to his place of death to retrieve his inventory items. If the character has no bind point (aka being errant) he will be sent to Sea Dog's Rest.
When one is killed by another player or by drowning, this death will be broadcast to the entire server via the PVP channel.
With all of the great ideas being discussed, hopefully VR will come up with a DP ruleset that will not drive players away.....
Personally I think we will only be able to realistically comment on the severity of the DP when we get to play test it. Pretty black and white balance between game difficulty and DP severity IMO.
Overall I trust the VR team to deliver a DP that instills some fear and hence excitement back into the genre... so let them get on with it especially considering the DP severity & difficulty isn't a fixed state as it will certainly evolve during the life cycle. So imo were discussing the out of the gate difficulty Vs DP.. which in turn will initially be defined by VR and fine tuned via feedback during Alpha/Beta.
muscoby said:Dullahan said:I don't think theres any reason to have repeated deaths. Talk to people, get help, find a group nearby, or a friendly rogue to sneak and drag, or a class that can summon your corpse. There should be plenty of ways to avoid chain deaths, but in a social game it requires communication. If you don't utilize them, you have only yourself to blame.
People have to stop looking at Pantheon through the lens of solo MMOs. You aren't supposed to be able to do everything on your own... by design.
People also need to stop looking at Pantheon through the lens of top level guild experience and convenience factors of "it's always available everytime all the time if you just communicate." When I speak of multiple deaths I am not speaking of solo play. I am speaking of also group play and the experience is also as a group; I assume others post based on anecdotal evidence also. I am speaking of the days in EQ1 where the opportunities and all things available to some were not at the disposal of others all the time every time. It could simply be playtimes. Reaching out for help from others could be met with "I'd love to help but we're busy at the moment." Heck even posting for help on guild forums was difficult enough to coordinate times when people could be online together. Group wipes with PUGS made of casual players from differing guilds (in theory what Pantheon is allm about) and a couple of multiple deaths generally resulted in people logging out and doing a retrieval in a different fashion at a different times because of play times and availability. The convenience that some have is not available to others. Like plays with like. So while you cannot think of a reason simply does not mean a reason does not exist. I have anecdotal evidence based on experience. Everything offered on this site is anecdotal evidence based on experience. Even a survey is simply a collection of anecdotal evidences summarized. Experience differs between people and I accept that and acknowledge that and do not dismiss it.
So while I can accept where there are some folks who have their own thoughts on why there should be reasons and why there should not be reasons, I can also see where there are situations that call for extreme measures - even if I haven't experienced it. It's rather narcissistic to hold the line that not being able to think of a reason means that there is no reason and therefore the lens is as someone who plays the game in a manner for which the game is not designed.
I haven't asked for the elimination of the death penalty and I haven't even insinuated in an easy way out. I simply suggested an option for extreme situations once the pain and penalty has gone on long enough. I'm not sure that "kicking someone while they're down" is what Pantheon is all about. But, hey, to each their own. The forum title said "Let's talk Death Penalty" so I have.
muscoby makes an important point. One that I remember experiencing more than a few times. Players are not going to always have the luxury of having guildmates be on hand to perform corpse retrievals at a moments notice. Not all guilds will be cut of the same cloth either. I also remember those times when, "I'd love to help but we're busy at the moment", when doing zone shouts for an assist. Or worse, silence upon your request when the zone is less than empty. Likewise, PUG member logout on multiple deaths was a common occurance as well. Kunark comes to mind. Those in the groove of playing and leveling would have to spend more time finding replacement or the group frequently disbanned altogether. You simply cannot expect others to play according to your style, time allotment, needs and desires. Are these experiences to be resurrected (pun intended) in Pantheon? And if so, how do we possibly find resolutions to them?
Dullahan said:The Death Penalty Mechanic and Loss Aversion in MMO Design
As usual, a lot of really good points are made by Wolfshead in this blog entry. A must read, imo.
couple excerpts:
Wolfshead said:It is perfectly natural and instinctive to view an average player’s motivation to play a MMORPG to be about gain via mechanics that promote advancement. But the truth is that loss aversion is a far more powerful and less known motivator that explains why some MMORPGs offer a richer and more compelling experience than others. Most MMO studios have failed to identify and leverage this deep seated truth about what motivates us as humans and the results are virtual worlds that lack believability, excitement and immediacy.
Wolfshead said:In a past article, I remember recalling the experience of working on an isometric video game for one of the biggest publishers of a beloved space opera IP. At the point in development of the game, we had not yet implemented a “lives” mechanic. At that point in its development it was essentially a sandbox game where you could explore and engage in combat. It was mildly interesting but not really fun.
When we finally implemented the lives mechanic (I think it was 3-5 lives), the lead programmer noted to the rest of the team that he was finally starting to have fun playing the game. Suddenly the game we made had become fun overnight to a non-designer. Why? We introduced a finite number of “lives” and essentially created a penalty for dying i.e. the game was over and you had to start all over again.
Wolfshead said:MMORPGs that are properly designed create an environment that makes us fear virtual death because of the losses incurred. The fear of dying in a MMORPG is what makes them feel so strangely alive, visceral and real. That fear is the gasoline that fuels the player’s internal combustion engine of desire to become more powerful. That feeling of fear is a gift. It is something that precious few other video game genres can ever replicate. Unfortunately, that sense of fear is absent from most modern MMOs who have followed Blizzard’s development trajectory of seeing death as a barrier and a nuisance.
Without the possibility of loss, how can gain be meaningful? How can anyone derive satisfaction when there is little to risk and everything to gain?
I used to think Pantheon's death penalty should be harsh. Now I think it should be brutal.
I'm actually a little frustrated that modern mmos have made me forget just how important this mechanic is.
I couldn't agree more with this.
I want the EQ style death penalty, I think the only thing I would change about it would be allowing melee to bind anywhere a caster could; never did quite understand why that was different.
Death must sting, it must be avoided and it must exist in order to make the rewards of survival and success create that feeling we are all here searching for.
-Az
^I agree, melee should be able to be bound anywhere casters can. However, I also don't think casters should be able to bind everywhere. I think only areas of relative safely should be for binding. I noticed stones in the outpost in the stream, and I am assuming that is something a player can bind at or a place where a bind spell will take hold. Either way, I don't think we should be able to bind in dangerous places like in a dungeon. I saw that abused quite a bit in EQ and p99.
@Dullahan, I actually like the idea of binding almost anywhere, though there should be some restrictions; like a dungeon, maybe have some capability to bind inside but mostly no. This ability does, IMO, add a level of immersion. We already know there will be areas influenced by various magics, so perhaps that would work into where one could bind too.
I think the real abuse of teleportation came from Call Of Hero, but the emergent use of it was pretty cool actually. And from my memories you would have to be fairly setup, crazy or stupid to bind in a dungeon in EQ anyway. But hey thats what emergent game play is all about, if I'm crazy enough and think I can get away with it, why not bind in a dungeon?
Not a huge fan of designated bind points, it feels a lot like quest hubs and introduces an artificial limitation to protect me from myself. If the point is to prevent death loops, then why not make the gaurds a bit smarter. For example, they don't have to kill you continuously, maybe they kill you once or twice and then kick you out of the city? You'll remember not to do that again and you didn't level down too badly for your mistake.
But more to the death penalty aspect of it, just allowing melee to be bound by a caster at a valid location near where you are fighting would soften the EQ death penalty quit a bit without giving it up all together. Shorter corpse runs for all :). Of course thats why resurrection spells existed too, which may be why melee were not allowed to bind outside a city, so rez would feel more useful. Another reason might have been to prevent zerging, which may be what abuse you were referring too. However rez made zerg possible soo..its clearly time to sleep :P
-Az
Ya, anywhere except dungeons and a few other exceptions. Basically anywhere that wouldn't allow players to circumvent content that is meant to serve as a barrier. That includes in the open world, should they place the entrance of a dungeon in a place surrounded by powerful creatures that cannot be run past. We are wise to stuff like that now and will know to have a summoner bound right outside to call of hero everyone. It was clever back in the day, but now its common knowledge and should be considered.
I'm on the side supporting exp loss and corpse runs. But the loss could be for future earned exp via a death debuff without a problem. For corpse runs, I think there does need to be an alternative for those times when there isn't anyone able/willing to help, but it shouldn't cost money. Since you have to put time in to retrieve your corpse, you should have to put time in another way to have an NPC do it for you such as a forced quest before you can gain any more exp (or some other penalty until you complete the quest). Perhaps you can do errands around a town and build up credits/karma? (not money!) that you can use to have NPCs perform a service that normally you'd have another player do such as corpse retrieval. This would also give people something to do while waiting for their friends to log in.
Flaamwing said:I'm on the side supporting exp loss and corpse runs. But the loss could be for future earned exp via a death debuff without a problem. For corpse runs, I think there does need to be an alternative for those times when there isn't anyone able/willing to help, but it shouldn't cost money. Since you have to put time in to retrieve your corpse, you should have to put time in another way to have an NPC do it for you such as a forced quest before you can gain any more exp (or some other penalty until you complete the quest). Perhaps you can do errands around a town and build up credits/karma? (not money!) that you can use to have NPCs perform a service that normally you'd have another player do such as corpse retrieval. This would also give people something to do while waiting for their friends to log in.
I'm somewhere in between. On the one hand, if over a period of hours or days you cant find anyone willing to help you that may reflect on your reputation in the game. If people know you as one that trains, that kill steals, or that is constantly being disruptive in chat, then maybe you deserve to rot. (Obviously "you" is generic and not talking abhout you personally Flaamwing :) )
On the other hand, there should be a mechanism to prevent what would effectively be the inability to ever play a character again. After a period of time (subjective, but I lean toward the 2-5 day range) your corpse should be recoverable thru a free, easily accessible means. The corpse appearing at an altar or graveyard in a town is a possibitliy.
This may just be nastalgia talking, but I think it's good to have a death penalty where you don't progress if you are so bad you are dying and losing experience all the time.
Corpse runs are can work well, but it ties into equipment and how easily it can be replaced. If items are powerful then no one will want to lose them. I don't think corpse runs are a major problem until you get to raiding and raidning is something I never did much in EQ. The game was mostly small group and I spent most of my time there just leveling up and exploring different areas and dungeons. One might argue that raiding has been a bit of a detriment to the genre. It was something fun for people to try when they got to max level and had nothing else to do. I recall watching people trying to kill the priest of discord in Kelethin because there was no raid content I knew of at the time. I almost wish the leveling process was slow enough that there wasn't a need to focus so much on raids and items.
The important thing is whatever the death penalty ends up being, it should make you not want to die, but at the same time, it shouldn't negatively affect people's real lives. Six hour Plane of Fear corpse runs that you can't leave because there is no other way to get your body fall into this category. I rather liked what EQ did in PoP where they add graveyards. Basically, after 30 minutes or so (maybe longer), your corpse goes to the graveyard, which is a relatively safe area. People shouldn't have to be forced to stay up until 4 AM for a corpse run when they have to work the next day. Also, assuming there is XP loss, I'd like to see the rez timer be longer than it was in EQ. I think it was three hours. I'd like to see it be at least 24, just so people aren't forced to extend their gaming sessions or risk losing hours of XP.
Other than that, I am fine with XP loss and gear loss, provided the XP loss penalty isn't too severe or ressurrect spells with XP recovery aren't limited to high level players of a single class like EQ.
I would like to see everything preserved from EQ with the exception of the possibility to compeltely lose all your equipment. Severe xp loss, maybe 10% of your bar with the ability to de-level, and also with the ability to resurrect and restore some xp. Give players a reasonable resurrection timer during which they may get xp rez, maybe 6 hours of online time. After that, you could still be rezzed to your corpse, but no xp restoration. A player res may or may not include some weak/short duration rez effects. After your corpse has been laying their for a few days regardless of whether you're online or not (3? 5? no longer than 7 days) your corpse disappears and is moved to some graveyard for rotting corpses where you can collect your stuff, no harm, no foul other than the lost xp, and now it's (3/5/7) days later.
If you don't care about the xp loss and just want to get your corpse back now, there can also be an altar or NPC who will summon your corpse to the graveyard for a cost, which substantially goes up with level. The effects of using this summoning and reanimation process would be very severe though. You would lose the chance for any xp rez, and the resurrection effects would be much worse than with a player provides res. For example you enter a zombie-like state, your movement is severely reduced, you have no health or stats. Basically you can't do anything. The I can't say what the proper dration would be, but it would need to be punishing enough that going this route is only a last resort. Maybe 2 hours of online time/12 hours offline time, whichever comes first. That will give you every incentive to try a legitimate CR, knowing that you couldn't do anything but sit and talk for the next 2 hours. But if it was late at night and you needed to get to bed, you go summon your corpse, and 12 hours offline time later, you're good to go.
@Dullahan thanks for sharing those Wolfshead quotes.
I've always preferred the harsher death mechanics, like original EQ1. It's nice to now know the reasons why.
Quintra said:I would like to see everything preserved from EQ with the exception of the possibility to compeltely lose all your equipment. Severe xp loss, maybe 10% of your bar with the ability to de-level, and also with the ability to resurrect and restore some xp. Give players a reasonable resurrection timer during which they may get xp rez, maybe 6 hours of online time. After that, you could still be rezzed to your corpse, but no xp restoration. A player res may or may not include some weak/short duration rez effects. After your corpse has been laying their for a few days regardless of whether you're online or not (3? 5? no longer than 7 days) your corpse disappears and is moved to some graveyard for rotting corpses where you can collect your stuff, no harm, no foul other than the lost xp, and now it's (3/5/7) days later.
If you don't care about the xp loss and just want to get your corpse back now, there can also be an altar or NPC who will summon your corpse to the graveyard for a cost, which substantially goes up with level. The effects of using this summoning and reanimation process would be very severe though. You would lose the chance for any xp rez, and the resurrection effects would be much worse than with a player provides res. For example you enter a zombie-like state, your movement is severely reduced, you have no health or stats. Basically you can't do anything. The I can't say what the proper dration would be, but it would need to be punishing enough that going this route is only a last resort. Maybe 2 hours of online time/12 hours offline time, whichever comes first. That will give you every incentive to try a legitimate CR, knowing that you couldn't do anything but sit and talk for the next 2 hours. But if it was late at night and you needed to get to bed, you go summon your corpse, and 12 hours offline time later, you're good to go.
I would be happy with a pretty harsh death penalty, even if there is a possibility of deleveling from XP loss. The only thing that is unacceptable to me is the possibility of a player losing all of their gear. That could amount to hundreds of hours of lost play time and I don't see how anybody could be on board with something like that.
Corpse runs = YES !
Corpse runs for 6 hours = No
Item loss = No
Corpse Draggin = Yes
I think the idea of the graveyard is awesome. But fine tune the time so it can't be abused. *Maybe 2-4 hours? Pretty much if you die and can't get your corpse back you lose your play session. Or someone can always drag your corpse for you
The absolute best gaming experiences of my life are still from the MUD I played 17 years ago. I remember I would die all over the world. (This was unforgiving. If you didnt get your corpse back in 24 hours it would rot and anyone could come by and pick up your gear. Also NPCs would pick up your gear as well) I would go to bed sometimes, thinking, I'm just going to get my corpse back tomorrow morning or after school tomorrow or what not. I would then log in and my brother or guild mate had gone and dragged my corpse from the bottom of hell (You could solo hell as a geared out cleric. It just took forever and if you died you where pretty screwed on getting the corpse back. Most of us kept 2 and 3 sets of gear in the bank so we could make the run back) and placed it in the guild hall. It was awesome in return to also do this for players myself. I hope we have mechanics like this so we can help one another. I want to walk into a newbie zone and help drag corpses to those that need help.
I also liked the idea of having multiples of everything I wore, even the most rare items so when I had to corpse retrieve I didnt have to naked. This made gear so much more important and also added longevity to content. Instead of running a zone once. You would run it all the time to get a second or third of a rare item. This also added the "Super Awesomeness" of having 2 or even 3 fully geared corpses laying all over a zone when you died trying to get the first one.
*Edit in bold* This could be much harsher. Like 12-24 hours or longer
To be fair, In all my years of playing EQ, not once have I heard of someone's corpse rotting with all of their equipment. I still think that it's a good carrot on a stick to have. Having to get your body requires you to talk to other players, make friends with them, and get/pay for their services that will help get your body back - whether that's a corpse summon, res, or an invis. It's a necessary evil IMO.
I'm for the death penalty, corpse retrieval, all the stress and inconvenience you won't find in other games. When trying to play modern EQ, summoning corpse, getting a rez and 10 mins of grind to make up for lost exp. is pretty much in line with other current MMO's. It's like playing Xbox. When Naggy was camping my corpse and it took a couple of days to get it back, begging to be invited to closed raids, working with new people who ended up becoming friends etc...those were the high points of the game for me. I lost a few corpses and subsequent articles early on, which taught me caution and offered a heightened playing experience. The greater the risk, the greater the reward. I had friends that lost everything at lvl 50 (cap) trying to break Fear, Time, Hate...So they started over and the compassionate community helped them re-equip. Down the road, experience, friendships, spells mitigated the risk somewhat but you still had to be on your toes, do research, get advice, etc.. to attempt difficult zones. it's just another rinse and repeat otherwise. Many of us banked less precious articles (just in case) during the learning curves in early EQ. I've come to terms with the fact that most people probably don't feel the same way, but I challenge you to think of actual reality and the most thrilling times that are burnt into your memories. For me, they always involve risk-taking behavior, often with consequences.
I can take a drive through Yosemite National Park, safe and comfortable in my car and enjoy the awesome views, get a nice prepared meal and sleep in a comfortable bed and in the moment I'm having a great time and it makes for a decent memory. The alternative is backpacking into the Himalaya carrying 50 lbs. back-pack, eating crappy food, freezing my ass off, getting attitude sickness, getting helicoptered out into Kathmandu and end up in a dirty Hospital for 2 days...In the moment it is harsh and seems to suck, but in the big picture.........
Nickdread said:I'm for the death penalty, corpse retrieval, all the stress and inconvenience you won't find in other games. When trying to play modern EQ, summoning corpse, getting a rez and 10 mins of grind to make up for lost exp. is pretty much in line with other current MMO's. It's like playing Xbox. When Naggy was camping my corpse and it took a couple of days to get it back, begging to be invited to closed raids, working with new people who ended up becoming friends etc...those were the high points of the game for me. I lost a few corpses and subsequent articles early on, which taught me caution and offered a heightened playing experience. The greater the risk, the greater the reward. I had friends that lost everything at lvl 50 (cap) trying to break Fear, Time, Hate...So they started over and the compassionate community helped them re-equip. Down the road, experience, friendships, spells mitigated the risk somewhat but you still had to be on your toes, do research, get advice, etc.. to attempt difficult zones. it's just another rinse and repeat otherwise. Many of us banked less precious articles (just in case) during the learning curves in early EQ. I've come to terms with the fact that most people probably don't feel the same way, but I challenge you to think of actual reality and the most thrilling times that are burnt into your memories. For me, they always involve risk-taking behavior, often with consequences.
I can take a drive through Yosemite National Park, safe and comfortable in my car and enjoy the awesome views, get a nice prepared meal and sleep in a comfortable bed and in the moment I'm having a great time and it makes for a decent memory. The alternative is backpacking into the Himalaya carrying 50 lbs. back-pack, eating crappy food, freezing my ass off, getting attitude sickness, getting helicoptered out into Kathmandu and end up in a dirty Hospital for 2 days...In the moment it is harsh and seems to suck, but in the big picture.........
Agreed. Sign me up for the Himalayan exp group!
It's refreshing to seeing more and more people making the case for a harsh death penalty.