There are certain things about the Orginal EQ death penalty that on the surface seemed small and senceless, but in the global picture were huge and I think they are NEEDED in Pantheon.
The ability to DE-Level, or DONG as we called it is NEEDED. In.guild chat we would get a report that "Player X has reached level Y" you all have seen them... every body sends a "grats" or hits the less sincere GRATS hot key. If somebody DONGED then we would see this DING message again, for the same guild member. This was a call to arms, members sent invites for player-X to come join them if they had room, They put there crafting or farming on hold and went to help. If a player Dinged level Y more than twice then members were all over it to help. If this was not your experiance, it's not bad Game Design, your just in the wrong Guild. Talk to your Guild about it, not VR
The next is Gear left on the Corpse needing an immediate corpse run, this is NEEDED, Yea experiance is one thing, but it's trivial. Seeing a person standing near a precarious place is one thing... he may just be waithing for his troup, chattin, bio break, etc... but a neckid player standing in that same spot or running by its OBVIOUS whats going on and likely he possabley needs help and thats an opportunity to make a friend. Reapearing after a death WITH your trousers is a social opertunity lost.
I belive I have told the story before of the Euridite Mage stranded in Freeport that for several DAYS would summon up food and drink and pop it into a trade window of every nudist that appeared in the freeport gates. After several days of this I asked her WTF? She explained her plight, her Son had got her a port to freeport as a "great place to level", then left her straned, she couldent buy new spells, she dident know the way home, so she just hung out there handing out food and water and chatting with passers-by. Thus my little troupe set out on a journey to Odus that day in 1999 and a bond was formed. (That same Mage is investigating coming to Patheon now btw 17 years later)
Yes, im of the opinion those two things NEED to be included in the death penalty, regardless of the "inconvenience" there is just too much to loose without them.
Zorkon said:There are certain things about the Orginal EQ death penalty that on the surface seemed small and senceless, but in the global picture were huge and I think they are NEEDED in Pantheon.
The ability to DE-Level, or DONG as we called it is NEEDED. In.guild chat we would get a report that "Player X has reached level Y" you all have seen them... every body sends a "grats" or hits the less sincere GRATS hot key. If somebody DONGED then we would see this DING message again, for the same guild member. This was a call to arms, members sent invites for player-X to come join them if they had room, They put there crafting or farming on hold and went to help. If a player Dinged level Y more than twice then members were all over it to help. If this was not your experiance, it's not bad Game Design, your just in the wrong Guild. Talk to your Guild about it, not VR
The next is Gear left on the Corpse needing an immediate corpse run, this is NEEDED, Yea experiance is one thing, but it's trivial. Seeing a person standing near a precarious place is one thing... he may just be waithing for his troup, chattin, bio break, etc... but a neckid player standing in that same spot or running by its OBVIOUS whats going on and likely he possabley needs help and thats an opportunity to make a friend. Reapearing after a death WITH your trousers is a social opertunity lost.
I belive I have told the story before of the Euridite Mage stranded in Freeport that for several DAYS would summon up food and drink and pop it into a trade window of every nudist that appeared in the freeport gates. After several days of this I asked her WTF? She explained her plight, her Son had got her a port to freeport as a "great place to level", then left her straned, she couldent buy new spells, she dident know the way home, so she just hung out there handing out food and water and chatting with passers-by. Thus my little troupe set out on a journey to Odus that day in 1999 and a bond was formed. (That same Mage is investigating coming to Patheon now btw 17 years later)
Yes, im of the opinion those two things NEED to be included in the death penalty, regardless of the "inconvenience" there is just too much to loose without them.
I am all for having a pretty harsh death penalty, but I could do without the potential gear loss. I think the way FFXI handled the death penalty was a pretty fair compromise. The possibility to de-level did exist in the game, and for the most part did a pretty good job with keeping people in check. Nobody wanted to get out of hand, even on raids. In order to raid in that game you basically wanted to stay as far into level 75 as possible ... that way if you wiped a few times, or even 10x, you wouldn't delevel. But if you think you can go to a raid with 5% XP into level 75, you had bad news coming. You could end up deleveling and not being able to equip any of your max level gear. It was a pretty massive penalty.
With that said, I'm glad I have never played a game where permanent gear loss was possible. When the death penalty is that harsh, I feel it can limit the willingness of adventurers to delve into the deepest parts of a dungeon. Let's say you're one of the top levels on server and you want to be the first to explore new content ... a permanent death penalty like gear loss could interfere with that. People wouldn't risk everything to venture into the unknown ... not when there is literally no possible way of getting help to retrieve your corpse (should you die, and yeah, death is inevitable for all of us) until more people on the server catch up to your level. Even when they do catch up, are they going to want to risk their own potential gear loss to go and help you retrieve yours?
I'm fine with punishing players for death, and to even allow deleveling ... but if it's even remotely possible for a character to lose ALL of their gear ... that's not acceptable. Some players can spend hundreds or even thousands of hours at max level progressing their characters with gear. There should never be a consequence so severe that it's possible to lose that much time invested into your character. I think a better idea is to just put a pretty nasty debuff on people that can last maybe 30 minutes max, and if they're able to retrieve their corpse it makes the debuff go away. If their corpse is impossible to retrieve, they can take a short break and head back to town and replenish themselves, whether that's buying something that can help them get past an obstacle or bringing along some extra friends. My biggest concern is that if a fully stacked group dies very deep in a dungeon, wouldn't they need at the very least another fully stacked group capable of getting that deep to retrieve their corpse? If the game is as challenging as I'm hoping it will be, that might not always be possible, particularly for groups that are on the cutting edge of content.
To sum it up, I'm fine with having my XP group or farm session ruined because of a mistake. Something like this could ruin a person's night, even. But to ruin the entire game? That should never be possible. And for me, if I lost hundreds or thousands of hours of work ... sorry, no, I wouldn't be able to commit to that type of dedication toward my character again. The sting would be too painful. I would literally feel like I lost out on weeks/months of my life and that's never a healthy predicament to be in. I'm pretty hardcore but something like that should not exist outside of maybe a special hardcore server where everybody is okay with something like that.
Another reason I'm so against this idea is because I want the game to be very challenging. I don't ever want to have to "play it safe" in fear of losing everything. When it comes to making a tough decision, I'm much more comfortable with "Well, if we try this fight and it kills us ... we're pretty much screwed. It took us 3 hours to get down here and there is no way we are getting our corpse back tonight if we wipe. But it's all good ... we made it all the way down here, let's see if we can kill this damn thing!" than "Well ... we spent 3 hours getting down here, but this thing looks really tough. I really don't think we're going to beat it on our first attempt. Maybe we should wait until we can bring another group or healer down here because I really don't want to risk losing all of my gear."
When the death penalty is too severe, it can discourage people from wanting to attempt challenging content ... and I'm really, really looking forward to challenging content. I think it would be incredibly difficult to balance the level of challenge I am hoping to see with a death penalty as severe as potentially permanent gear loss. I also don't like the idea that someone elses mistake could affect me that harshly. Like I said, ruin my night ... that's fine, I'll get over it. But if someone lags out and pulls a train and the entire group wipes, causing me to lose my gear ... nope. What if I'm going on vacation the next day? Should I just decide that I don't want to immerse myself in some of the more challenging content on my last session before I leave? I just see so many potential problems with something like this.
I too, wish for a harsh death-penalty - including corpse runs. Many of the posters here are arguing from the point of view that they are left alone after a death and need to do said corpse run alone and nekkid. Hey! Were you soloing mobs too high for your level? Where is your group? Where is your guild?
I played as an enchanter, so death was a common event during my playtime. I found the xp loss to be negligible in most cases because I either had a group with a rezzer, the guild had a rezzer or some other group in the zone had a rezzer. Being sociable, nice to people, gathering favours from others and helping others in similar situations mitigated any loss incurred.
Yes, there are situations where corpse runs can really be a bummer. One time we lost a couple of groups in the infamous Plane of Fear during the night and it ended up with 2 or three guilds combining forces to rescue all the bodies. It took hours and most of the participants were (near) naked. It is something I am sure that to this day everybody remembers vividly. BUT: this is really the exception regarding corpse runs. Normally it is always possible to recover your corpse with a little help from your friends so in my view, yes. CRs and item decay please.
I echo vjek's sentiments regarding permanent item loss/corpse runs with items.
DDoS, server downtime, real life emergencies, etc. all introduce way too many plausible scenarios where items can be permanently lost. What do you do when your epic weapon rots on your corpse? I'm of the opinion that permanent item loss is simply incompatible with a game like this. If it was on a specific ruleset server, that's fine, but it'll be interesting to see how the population dwindles compared to other rulesets.
What if there was a minigame that involved something similar to Ultima Online or World of Warcraft.
Have the player turn into a ghost on death and get back to their body so that their spirit returns to it.
One might still need help finding the body and could communicate with the living via ghost talk. Perhaps only certain classes like the Necromancer or Cleric would be able to have communication with them.
Simple.
If the game is going to be truly group-oriented so everyone (not just guilds of well-organized friends) runs around grouped most of the time to get anything material done, then pour it on and make the penalties just like EQ was in classic. This assumes people want to help each other, stay in stable groups for more than one fleeting run of something (cough WoW), and have the mindset to help others recover their corpses and gear when necessary since they will also need said help themselves once in a while.
And I hope grouping is the norm. Lack of this breeds selfish play which breeds having no help recovering from a bad wipe.
Death in this game should definitely sting. I think from what I have heard of Pantheon's plans to deal with death they are definitely on the right track. Here are some bullet points I want to add to the discussion.
- In death we should still desire another classes help. Needing others promotes socialization, which leads to friendships and other connections. It also keeps your attitude in check. You won't want to go running all over Termius acting like a jerk knowing that someday, sometime you might need another persons help.
- CR's shouldn't take all night and even if you cant find a rez you should be able to somehow access your body and get all your things back. (This might allow people to avoid trolls who are purposely training areas where people are trying to do CR's.
-Please make the rez timer only count while you're logged in on THAT character. I say this because while I do think its good to have to rely on others for rezzes I realize that not everyone is available right away to rez you and it would be nice to go spend some time on an alt while you wait for your friend to get out of that dungeon, or group to rez you when they are done, this also creates a scenario where you don't have to unjustly ask someone to drop everything they are doing to come help you. I do think that promoting classiness in game should be supported.
Gamerchick said:Death in this game should definitely sting. I think from what I have heard of Pantheon's plans to deal with death they are definitely on the right track. Here are some bullet points I want to add to the discussion.
- In death we should still desire another classes help. Needing others promotes socialization, which leads to friendships and other connections. It also keeps your attitude in check. You won't want to go running all over Termius acting like a jerk knowing that someday, sometime you might need another persons help.
- CR's shouldn't take all night and even if you cant find a rez you should be able to somehow access your body and get all your things back. (This might allow people to avoid trolls who are purposely training areas where people are trying to do CR's.
-Please make the rez timer only count while you're logged in on THAT character. I say this because while I do think its good to have to rely on others for rezzes I realize that not everyone is available right away to rez you and it would be nice to go spend some time on an alt while you wait for your friend to get out of that dungeon, or group to rez you when they are done, this also creates a scenario where you don't have to unjustly ask someone to drop everything they are doing to come help you. I do think that promoting classiness in game should be supported.
Sounds good to me. I'm basically on board with anything outside of permanent gear loss. If it's possible to delevel, I wouldn't want to see the XP loss much higher than 5-7%. If it's not possible to delevel, I would probably be okay with as high as a 10% loss. I'm also fine with a debuff if I can't get back to my corpse but I personally wouldn't want it to be that long. The cost to repair armor could also be tweaked to be more on the expensive side ... or maybe certain items require a component of some sort to fully repair. Death is bad!
I want experience loss, and a very expensive repair bill on gear when max level. And the experience loss must be significant...not just 5 minutes of xp lost. Maybe not as severe as the original EQ but at least 1 hours worth of xp lost each death. Corpse runs are good too, but make sure certain classes have ways to help like EQ necromancers. As for the max level repair bills on gear that is something that devs will have to calculate based on how much gold/plat players earn at max level. Don't make it a few silver that won't make players bat an eye. I remember dying on raids in WoW till my gear was all broke and the repair bill made me shrug. That shouldn't happen. Some people say the fact that my raid didn't kill the boss was enough punishment but I disagree. I remember raids wiping in EQ and it was quite a big deal retrieving all the corpses, rezzing, etc. Players should not be fearless to the point of being stupid due to lack of consequence.
Ziegfried said:I want experience loss, and a very expensive repair bill on gear when max level. And the experience loss must be significant...not just 5 minutes of xp lost. Maybe not as severe as the original EQ but at least 1 hours worth of xp lost each death. Corpse runs are good too, but make sure certain classes have ways to help like EQ necromancers. As for the max level repair bills on gear that is something that devs will have to calculate based on how much gold/plat players earn at max level. Don't make it a few silver that won't make players bat an eye. I remember dying on raids in WoW till my gear was all broke and the repair bill made me shrug. That shouldn't happen. Some people say the fact that my raid didn't kill the boss was enough punishment but I disagree. I remember raids wiping in EQ and it was quite a big deal retrieving all the corpses, rezzing, etc. Players should not be fearless to the point of being stupid due to lack of consequence.
I've never enjoyed decaying equipment to begin with, but it seems to be the norm these days. But punishing repair costs shouldn't be a thing. If extracting money from the ecosystem is needed, find other ways to do it, ways that encourage players to do so and doesn't feel awful doing. Losing exp and a possible corpse run for death is punishing enough. Unless you forget that plenty enough deaths come from others not even part of your group via trains or trolls.
Frankly and as a tangential issue I think equipment decay is one of those features like consumables and item wear that is a reason economies like EVEs are so good, and is something to be encouraged. It's a form of upkeep that is simple to understand and implement, scales, can be expanded to include the production of repair kits or special material, etc. It's one of those basic economic engines that keeps professions relevant even past the initial high level item craft.
Consequently, I think the theory of equipment wear is a good aspect of death penalties. Would greatly prefer this over corpse runs if it was between those two. Obviously exp loss and donging is a given.
We need to keep the group-focused mindset when discussing matters such as the death penalty. Remember, this should NOT be a single-player friendly game.
1. Percentage based loss of xp of around 6-7%, with possible deleveling, including at max level (making lower levels easier to recover from). GROUP FOCUS: This xp is mostly recoverable with the help of a healer.
2. Corpse runs must be a thing, but gear should never be permanently lost. One should have to run their naked butt back to retrieve their body (making this difficult to do alone). GROUP FOCUS: A. Help is needed to actually make it back to where the body lay, or B. a corpse summoner must be hired, or C. you must wait a specified amount of time for the body to despawn and respawn in a graveyard with gear intact (I propose a week, minimum). This will encourage people to make friends to progress more quickly, and will punish those who do not. Also, it will help preserve the sense of "fear" when traveling to new zones or running through places known to be particularly dangerous. Everyone reminisces about Kithicor forest at night. Why? Because it was scary as hell; you did not want to die in there.
3. No equipment decay. It breaks up groups: "Hey, wait here guys. I have to travel 5 zones away to repair before I can continue down this dungeon." Thirty minutes later...."Ok, I'm back. Let's do this.... Oh, you forgot you need to repair also. /sigh" The only other option is to allow self-repair, but that both breaks immersion and the costs, in most games, are usually trivial after playing a few days.
Personal opinions:
Don't view a death down a deep, dark dungeon as a chore, something that is costing you time and progression. Think of it as an opportunity to slow down, make some friends and expand your Pantheon network. Enjoy the game and EVERYthing it has to offer. Don't try to rush to end-game and finish the content in three months, only to be bored for 9 months until the next release.
Edit: added deleveling
Panda said:We need to keep the group-focused mindset when discussing matters such as the death penalty. Remember, this should NOT be a single-player friendly game.
1. Percentage based loss of xp of around 6-7%, with possible deleveling, including at max level (making lower levels easier to recover from). GROUP FOCUS: This xp is mostly recoverable with the help of a healer.
2. Corpse runs must be a thing, but gear should never be permanently lost. One should have to run their naked butt back to retrieve their body (making this difficult to do alone). GROUP FOCUS: A. Help is needed to actually make it back to where the body lay, or B. a corpse summoner must be hired, or C. you must wait a specified amount of time for the body to despawn and respawn in a graveyard with gear intact (I propose a week, minimum). This will encourage people to make friends to progress more quickly, and will punish those who do not. Also, it will help preserve the sense of "fear" when traveling to new zones or running through places known to be particularly dangerous. Everyone reminisces about Kithicor forest at night. Why? Because it was scary as hell; you did not want to die in there.
3. No equipment decay. It breaks up groups: "Hey, wait here guys. I have to travel 5 zones away to repair before I can continue down this dungeon." Thirty minutes later...."Ok, I'm back. Let's do this.... Oh, you forgot you need to repair also. /sigh" The only other option is to allow self-repair, but that both breaks immersion and the costs, in most games, are usually trivial after playing a few days.
Personal opinions:
Don't view a death down a deep, dark dungeon as a chore, something that is costing you time and progression. Think of it as an opportunity to slow down, make some friends and expand your Pantheon network. Enjoy the game and EVERYthing it has to offer. Don't try to rush to end-game and finish the content in three months, only to be bored for 9 months until the next release.
Edit: added deleveling
I think you're right about equipment decay although they could remedy that by giving some classes the ability to repair armor or something to that effect.
Gamerchick said:Panda said:3. No equipment decay. It breaks up groups: "Hey, wait here guys. I have to travel 5 zones away to repair before I can continue down this dungeon." Thirty minutes later...."Ok, I'm back. Let's do this.... Oh, you forgot you need to repair also. /sigh" The only other option is to allow self-repair, but that both breaks immersion and the costs, in most games, are usually trivial after playing a few days.
I think you're right about equipment decay although they could remedy that by giving some classes the ability to repair armor or something to that effect.
I could get behind this. It would create jobs. I would love to see people making money by hanging out in a dungeon and travelling down to groups for repairs.
oneADseven said: Let's say you're one of the top levels on server and you want to be the first to explore new content ... a permanent death penalty like gear loss could interfere with that. People wouldn't risk everything to venture into the unknown ... not when there is literally no possible way of getting help to retrieve your corpse (should you die, and yeah, death is inevitable for all of us) until more people on the server catch up to your level. Even when they do catch up, are they going to want to risk their own potential gear loss to go and help you retrieve yours?
Oh you couldn't be more wrong in this statement. Gear loss in EQ became a huge social factor. It provoked massive uprisings from guilds in times of need. As someone who was a top tier raider back then, we pushed head first into every bit of new content we could get into with no idea what was to come. It was always fun and exciting. Skilled players new how to handle things, including wipes and recovery AKA "rangers kite ffs and give the clerics time to camp!". So fearing death was not really a big concern unless you were solo. But should it happen, people responded in force to help, *usually*. Because they all knew one day it maybe them.
Enitzu said:oneADseven said: Let's say you're one of the top levels on server and you want to be the first to explore new content ... a permanent death penalty like gear loss could interfere with that. People wouldn't risk everything to venture into the unknown ... not when there is literally no possible way of getting help to retrieve your corpse (should you die, and yeah, death is inevitable for all of us) until more people on the server catch up to your level. Even when they do catch up, are they going to want to risk their own potential gear loss to go and help you retrieve yours?Oh you couldn't be more wrong in this statement. Gear loss in EQ became a huge social factor. It provoked massive uprisings from guilds in times of need. As someone who was a top tier raider back then, we pushed head first into every bit of new content we could get into with no idea what was to come. It was always fun and exciting. Skilled players new how to handle things, including wipes and recovery AKA "rangers kite ffs and give the clerics time to camp!". So fearing death was not really a big concern unless you were solo. But should it happen, people responded in force to help, *usually*. Because they all knew one day it maybe them.
I wouldn't say I was completely wrong ... you're referencing a particular incident where your specific guild decided to help. The point I was illustrating is that you aren't guaranteed to get help ... ever. Maybe you're on at 4 AM and there isn't anybody else online to help you? Assuming that people will "always" be available to come to your rescue seems a bit naive to me. I understand your point though and do agree that if people are online to help, generally, we'd try to get something going to help people out. Either way I'm pretty sure that corpse runs will be a part of the game, but the chance to permanently lose your gear will not. I'd like to reference this part of the FAQ as to how I arrived at this conclusion:
Will there be a ‘death penalty’?
We want the player to respect and even fear the environment, but also to be enticed by it. A big part of achieving this balance is making sure there is an incentive to avoid death. While the details of this system are not yet fleshed out (and will likely be tweaked and changed a bit during beta), you can expect death to be something you’d rather avoid. That said, if a death penalty is too severe, it can keep players away from some of the more challenging and rewarding content, and we are keeping this in mind as well. So death will sting, but it will also not involve losing an unreasonable amount of experience, or levels, or a permanent loss of items.
I still feel a compromise of turning into a ghost is acceptable and more immersive. You still have to find your corpse and there is no grantee of getting away safely from where you died. There is still the possibility of people helping each other find their corpse or get out of a tight spot when they get back to their corpse. Having to run naked back to your corpse was kind of fun and exciting sometimes, but I'm not sure how much sense it made. Turning into a spirit when you die makes a lot of sense and having to start at your bind point could be explained by the magical nature of the process I'm sure. I could see people still having lots of trouble recovering their corpses if they died in a bad place.
UnknownQuantity said:I still feel a compromise of turning into a ghost is acceptable and more immersive. You still have to find your corpse and there is no grantee of getting away safely from where you died. There is still the possibility of people helping each other find their corpse or get out of a tight spot when they get back to their corpse. Having to run naked back to your corpse was kind of fun and exciting sometimes, but I'm not sure how much sense it made. Turning into a spirit when you die makes a lot of sense and having to start at your bind point could be explained by the magical nature of the process I'm sure. I could see people still having lots of trouble recovering their corpses if they died in a bad place.
This makes sense in a single player RPG. It does not make sense to me in an MMO. You could make it work I guess but it seems jarring to me.
Maximis said:UnknownQuantity said:I still feel a compromise of turning into a ghost is acceptable and more immersive. You still have to find your corpse and there is no grantee of getting away safely from where you died. There is still the possibility of people helping each other find their corpse or get out of a tight spot when they get back to their corpse. Having to run naked back to your corpse was kind of fun and exciting sometimes, but I'm not sure how much sense it made. Turning into a spirit when you die makes a lot of sense and having to start at your bind point could be explained by the magical nature of the process I'm sure. I could see people still having lots of trouble recovering their corpses if they died in a bad place.
This makes sense in a single player RPG. It does not make sense to me in an MMO. You could make it work I guess but it seems jarring to me.
It seemed to work fairly well in Ultima Online and World of Warcraft. The only difference here is that you would still have Everquest mechanics such as not having a map indicator to show your where your corpse was and you might still need people to help you locate it (Necromancer, Cleric, or word of mouth). I also think it could be a fun roleplaying tool having ghosts running around. In Ultima Online you could hear someone trying to communicate, but couldn't see them. You would hear ghost talk instead. Perhaps only certain classes could understand ghosts or you could learn ghost talk as a language. People could still ressurect you to prevent experience loss.
Panda said:Gamerchick said:Panda said:3. No equipment decay. It breaks up groups: "Hey, wait here guys. I have to travel 5 zones away to repair before I can continue down this dungeon." Thirty minutes later...."Ok, I'm back. Let's do this.... Oh, you forgot you need to repair also. /sigh" The only other option is to allow self-repair, but that both breaks immersion and the costs, in most games, are usually trivial after playing a few days.
I think you're right about equipment decay although they could remedy that by giving some classes the ability to repair armor or something to that effect.
I could get behind this. It would create jobs. I would love to see people making money by hanging out in a dungeon and travelling down to groups for repairs.
You know what Panda, me too!
oneADseven said:I wouldn't say I was completely wrong ... you're referencing a particular incident where your specific guild decided to help. The point I was illustrating is that you aren't guaranteed to get help ... ever. Maybe you're on at 4 AM and there isn't anybody else online to help you? Assuming that people will "always" be available to come to your rescue seems a bit naive to me. I understand your point though and do agree that if people are online to help, generally, we'd try to get something going to help people out. Either way I'm pretty sure that corpse runs will be a part of the game, but the chance to permanently lose your gear will not. I'd like to reference this part of the FAQ as to how I arrived at this conclusion:
My point was more to the fact that there were ways around it. A good cleric knew when a wipe was coming and was logging out before it was even called. DPS/Tanks would train mobs out to provide the needed time for the cleric to get out. Long as 1 of them made it then you weren't doing a corpse run. That is considering you get enough people up before respawns if you were in a bad spot. But being on at odd times and things and completely wiping usually meet having to ask a nearby group for a drag/rez or having 1 in your group invis and drag to said nearby group to rez. If you happen to be that far ahead in leveling and there are no other groups, then you could always invis back to the bodies or have 1 person drag them out to a safe area. Invis, IvU, and their potion counterparts were huge when dealing with corpse runs. Only time I've ever had hours long corpse runs was in Fear after a respawn since mobs saw through invis which meant you either had a 2nd set of gear or it was going to take awhile.
I also agree that permanent loss should not be in game. Let the corpse return to a graveyard or something if items drop but make it take at least 48 hours before it does. That way it pushes you to do the CR but if you can't then you don't lose everything you worked for.
Suggestion on the topic of CR . I propose a graveyard of sorts , this allows you to summon said corpse and gear. The downfall is 100 % broken gear and the exp loss can not be regained via rez or other options + a plat sink based on level.
So for example you die at the bottom of the dungeon , respawn at bind point ... You either can attempt to A. Go get corpse B. find a player to summon corpse / rez or C. Go to graveyard and have the corpse summoned for you with the above negatives.
Xxar said:Suggestion on the topic of CR . I propose a graveyard of sorts , this allows you to summon said corpse and gear. The downfall is 100 % broken gear and the exp loss can not be regained via rez or other options + a plat sink based on level.
So for example you die at the bottom of the dungeon , respawn at bind point ... You either can attempt to A. Go get corpse B. find a player to summon corpse / rez or C. Go to graveyard and have the corpse summoned for you with the above negatives.
This doesnt sound like a bad thing to me. I recognize that there are times where a recovery is just not an option, and I dont like the notion of full loss of items. But this is a painful alternative that strikes a pretty decent balance.