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Let's talk Death Penalty

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    • 332 posts
    February 13, 2017 1:28 AM PST

    I am confused ?

    What does items have to do with exp loss and deleveling ?

    • 24 posts
    February 13, 2017 3:34 AM PST

    Death can have two penalties exp and time. The exp penalty is 10% of current level and time can be corpse runs and rez recovery time.

     

    Before level 5 death has no penalty. You spawn at bind point with all gear and no exp lose. You have no corpse to rez and no grave yard corpse.

     

    No lose of items and no damage of items.

    You re-spawn at bind point with no equipment upon death.

    All corpses have a 48 hour rez timer, after which no exp can be recovered from a corpse.

    After 72 hours corpse rots and all equipment is returned to player by mail.

     

    Lets say you are in level 10 which takes 100,000 points to get to level 11.

    When you die you lose 10,000 points 10% for each corpse and de-leveling is possible. Once you de-level then you start taking 10% of that lower level.

     

    Each zone should have a grave yard. Corpse appears in grave yard 20 minutes after death.

    • Commands once in grave yard and corpse must be in grave yard for these commands to work.
      • /corpse summons all of your corpses to grave yard, no permission needed.
      • /corpse [name] summon all corpses of the group member [name], must have permission.
      • /gcorpse summon all of your groups corpses, must have permission for each group member.
      • /corpserez rez one corpse near by, corpse disappears with a 20% (2,000 from example above) exp recovery. Oldest to newest corpse is rezed.
      • /corpseloot loot all of your equipment no exp recovery but can be /corpserez or rezed by a rez spell later.

     

    Any corpse can be rezed by a class that can rez to get a higher exp returned to you. Highest rez returned should be 95%. Should have a quest or maybe quest plus N number of months paid membership to get a 100% recovery of all corpses in any zone and can only be used once per 7 days.

     

    The main lobby or guild hall has summoners that will summon all corpses for a price based on your level.

    • Commands in lobby or guild hall
      • /corpserez one of your near by corpses disappears with a 20% (2,000 from example above) exp recovery. Oldest to newest corpse is rezed.
      • /corpseloot loot all of your equipment no exp recovery but can be /corpserez or rezed by a rez spell later.

     

    Corpses in lobby or guild hall can be rezed with spells also.

    Would like the ability to be able to rez someone that is offline, they had a power outage or something.

    Multiple people can rez them and once the player logs back in they get the highest rez cast on their corpse or they can decline the rez. If they decline the rez and it has been more than 72 hours then the corpse rots and they can not get any exp back.

     

    Let me say again NO equipment is ever lost or damaged.

    If a corpse rots all equipment is returned to player in a single box which can be mailed to player. The box disappears once opened and items inside are placed in inventory or bank or both if inventory is full.

     

    Dragging a corpse can be done by anyone if they have permission.

    • Commands to drag corpses.
      • /dragcorpse drags all of your corpses. No permission needed, must be within range corpse(s).

      • /dragcorpse [name] drags of [name] players corpse. Permission needed by [name], must be within range of corpse(s)

      • /gdrag drags all corpses of all group members. Permission needed by each group member, must be within range of corpse(s)

     

    Players can be summoned to their corpse by classes that can summon, no exp recovery.

    • 483 posts
    February 13, 2017 3:44 AM PST

    Natrix said:

    I'm okay with any exp loss up to a full level. When you start losing items that have a very low percent of win rate and drop rate that is when I debate quitting especially if the game will be the type that you can only win with the very best gear.

    There is no permanent loss of items, that has been confirmed, just checked the FAQ.

    • 187 posts
    February 13, 2017 5:24 AM PST

    I really, really don't want graveyards unless they are used after 2 weeks or even 30 days.

    Please, please have corpse runs. Not as a ghost, either. As a 'naked' player, needing the people around you for help and support.

    I already mentioned it, but CRs were the source of so many experiences for so many people. When I talk to people who played EQ, they all remember epic CRs. CRs, while most considered it a horrible dynamic, are actually some of the most enduring and powerful memories. Additionally, it was really what made the 'fear' in EQ real.

    Graveyards trivialize both CRs and also completely skips over player interaction. It is a merely annoying, not in any way truly scary. It's not scary to sit and wait 15 minutes and KNOW that you will recover everything within a mere 15 minutes.

    CRs and the fear of losing everything made things feel real. It made accomplishments feel real.

    If you put in a VERY long timer, people will feel compelled to go get their corpse. If you put in a short timer, people will just wait it out and not even speak to anyone else. However, many groups will still dump people out of their group if they have to wait a whole 15 minutes for their corpse.

    The only thing graveyards with semi-fast return times will do is cost people groups which will make them frustrated. It doesn't create any fear, because it's not a steep penalty at all.

    And honestly, why does WoW even bother with making you ghost back to your corpse at all? Being able to immediately retrieve it from anyplace or in any way is just as good as no penalty at all.

    "Oh noes, I'm annoyed." Gosh, that's a real 'penalty'.

    I hear "death should sting," but then I hear things like graveyards and repair costs. That doesn't sting, that only hurts newbies. Frankly, it should make it so that higher level characters have MORE to fear, not less. Repair costs always become either trivial at some point, or only onerous for players with less time to farm stuff or less interest in spending their time on economics.

    Creating money sinks is fine, but using repairs to do it only penalizes the more casual players and new characters/ players. It's trivial and pointless to everyone else.

    Graveyards are merely annoying, and frankly they were created only because of EQ... "well, CRs were too  harsh, so we'll use the same thing of losing all your gear, but we'll make graveyards so people don't complain about it". If you don't want CRs, don't bother with making people lose their items at all. Either make it really meaningful, or don't do it at all. Graveyards aren't meaningful and they don't create fear. Repair isn't meaningful and it doesn't create fear.

    Not to mention that paying the GAME to get your corpse back, or to offset your deaths, does nothing remotely to support player interaction.

    Having the game rez you also diminishes dramatically player interaction. Not to mention that it also decreases the amounts people can ask for, for their services. Even making a "lesser" spell of the same type available creates a dynamic in which people just say, "forget it" and go get the cheapy and off they go.

    I'm very against repair as a penalty for death. Make repair part of day-to-day life instead. Everyone has to repair per their level. Monsters of level 1 only do so much damage... monsters of level 50 can deliver quite a whallop. Epic monsters of level 50 can crush you like a tin can.

    This makes economic sense. BUT then you have to acknowledge that this means tanks will have an excessive burden of repair. Something must be done to mitigate that in order that tanks don't end up poor while everyone else has no need for repair. The better the tank, the bigger their burden, lol.

    • 483 posts
    February 22, 2017 1:48 PM PST

    I have been thinking about other ways to implement a death penalty similar to the EQ one, with mandatory corpse runs.

    My idea revolves around a debuff or something similar that’s applied to your gear when you die, the debuff makes your gear useless in all other zones except for the one you died in.

    (Ex: if you die in Amberfaet your gear will only work properly inside Amberfaet)

    So when you die all the gear you currently have equip stays with you, you also have a “soulbound bag” that does not drop when you die it’s used to keep alternate gear sets or very important items, all else in your inventory is dropped and some sort of xp penalty is applied. When you respawn the debuff is applied to your gear and you need to retrieve your corpse to get rid of the debuff or you can wait X days for it to fall off.

    With this system corpse runs are mandatory, getting back to your corpse is still a challenge and since you’re not naked when doing the corpse run it gives the devs a chance to create harder more challenging dungeons.

    I would like to hear your thoughts on this, I believe it’s a really good idea and a nice compromise with the original EQ death penalty.

    • 5 posts
    February 24, 2017 1:20 PM PST

    The original death penalty from Everquest was great.  Hopefully its the same (xp loss and corpse run) here.


    This post was edited by Locnar at February 24, 2017 1:20 PM PST
    • 248 posts
    February 24, 2017 3:53 PM PST

    I have just spent a few hours reading all 17 pages of this topic. It's been interesting.

    I'm in the EQ1 death penalty group. The reason for this is the same as the reason for me deciding to pledge to Pantheon: The developers talk about class interdependency, and that is exactly what the EQ1 death penalty brought to the game.

    You did not always have to run far on a CR, Druids or Wizards could pick you up. You did not always have to go naked, Mages could summon weapons and armor. You did not always have to lose a lot of exp, Clerics could give you a ress. And so on and so forth.

    I really, really liked that the different classes were important in their own way. That I needed them and that sometimes they needed me too.

    I think it is very important that we need people when the game gets tough, not npc's or graveyards. 

    I'm not saying that Pantheon should just copy EQ1's death penalty - although I truly loved it - I'm hoping they copy the class interdependency when deciding how the death penalty in Pantheon should work.

     

    -sorte.

    • 8 posts
    March 21, 2017 10:42 AM PDT

    My thoughts on death penalty-

    Don't have time to read 18 pages of replies.  Hope I'm not duplicating. 

     

    Corpse runs should be back.  Nothing like the thrill of running naked through a hostile landscape!  It makes staying alive important. It makes monsters actually scary! It generates sympathy from others and prompts them to help.

    Dying once should make you 'vunlerable', but no lost experience - yet!  Think of it as accident forgiveness, like Allstate.  While vulnerable, you need to be careful.  If you die while vulnerable, then you will lose experience and it will compound your vulnerability.  Vulnerability will wear off over time.  More so if you successfully recover your corpse. 

    This squashes recklessness.  Dying 5 times in quick succession would punish you as your vulnerability would skyrocket and you would lose a punitive amount of experience.  The more vulnerability you have built up, the more experience lost on each successive death.

     It also allows for exploration and dangerous attempts.  If you get trained or wander into the bosses lair or fall off a cliff while autofollowing an AFK player, then your first death only gives you a relatively amount of vulnerability as a warning.  No lost experience for the first death when you have zero vulnerability.  But after that first death when you become vulnerable, be on your guard until you return to normal.  This first amount of vulnerability should last only 10-20 mins.

    As for the goofball who runs up to the guards and pokes the guard with his dagger multiple times to make a pattern of corpses on the ground to spell out "YOLO", he should lost multiple levels and be super-vulnerable for a good 10 - 20 hours of playtime.

    I have always liked the slogan from EQ1 "You're in our world now!"  It sets the challenge, but doesn't punish you for trying.

    • 49 posts
    March 21, 2017 11:18 AM PDT

    Great ideas Raviss! I loved the thrill of corpse runs is early EQ and the need to actually strategize your way through encounters as opposed to dying your way through.

    That said, losing a good chunk of hard earned experience over one death in the old school EQ days lead a lot of players to become way to cautious. It was hard to find players who wanted to dungeon crawl and explore. Most just ended up playing it safe and xping for hours from safe spots on the fringes. They'd take the slow steady xp over the fear of death.

    Some kind of time-related death insurance might be a great way to control that balance!

    • 3852 posts
    March 21, 2017 11:38 AM PDT

    >CRs, while most considered it a horrible dynamic, are actually some of the most enduring and powerful memories<

    Yes horrible things often produce the most enduring and powerful memories. But do we want to program in something that "most" players considered to be a "horrible dynamic"? Will it help us attract and keep players outside of our core base - the old school people posting here.

    Almost every single one of us wants a death penalty that is significant enough to make players treat fights with respect and try to avoid dying. But is a corpse run the way to go from a game design perspective or is it simply the easy way out - something than any EQ player or developer knows, so let's do what we know and on to the next issue?

    What alternatives are there? Death can cost money - as in repair costs - but this becomes trivial. Death can result in permanent loss of equipped items, items in inventory and/or money that isn't safely in a bank. Perfectly reasonable that a dead body can be looted. Death can result in loss of experience - perhaps less reasonable, I would expect us to learn from the experience, actually. Death can weaken us - reduce abilities in various ways. - another perfectly reasonable answer. I'm thinking of temporary loss but that can be painful if it applies for a significant amount of logged-in time.  These four are probably the primary death penalties that we have seen over the years. Oh wait permanent loss of attributes - real loss not one point from an attribute that goes up to 1,000. As in losing a point of constitution permanently when typical constituion was 10-15 and few characters were over 18.

    Permanent loss of items or attributes might be too harsh. Never ever forget that death may result from a crash or a bug not a mistake, excessive daring or bad luck. Also while we want players to care, not just run in carelessly or even suicidally because it doesn't matter, we don't want players too terrified to explore new areas.

    Loss of enough experience to sting but not enough to really hurt is probably as good as any other approach. But whatever the penalty - and it can be a blend of the possibilities (lose experience and suffer temporary weakness for example)  - the whole idea of the fabled corpse run is to lessen the penalty.

    As long as the corpse run is optional and the penalty *without* a corpse run isn't draconian (never forget bugs and crashes and the desire to have us explore without too much terror) a corpse run adds an ...interesting dynamic. Combine that with the appeal to the core demographic - EQ players with a bad case of nostalgia - and it is probably worth while.

     

    • 3016 posts
    March 21, 2017 12:49 PM PDT

    Dead bodies being looted, would be pvp.   Loss of gear due to death when you pvped in LineageII or other games like that was prevalent,  then you got to watch someone vending your gear over General Chat.

      Been there done, that...NOT something I want to see in a PVE game.

       PVP ruleset server,  fine have at it.    I am FOR corpse runs.   I am FOR thinking gamers, considering their own danger, and the danger they put their own team or group in.     Penalties for the most part (don't want gear decay either..annoying at best)  serve to make one more conscious of one's own actions.   

      Fear of dying is a good thing.    You are aware, you are thinking.    Not just bum rushing a group of mobs ..without thinking and strategizing.   Seen alot of the Leeroy Jenkins types over my gaming years.   I don't group with them if I can help it.  So be careful what you wish for in this thread. :P

     

    Cana

    • 3852 posts
    March 22, 2017 3:51 PM PDT

    Go back long enough and loss of items was PVE not PVP. But neither of us wants it.

    I could argue that a corpse run makes dying less painful and reduces how much players care but that really depends on the other mechanics.

    Hypothetically and not by way of suggestion, assume death costs a flat 5% of a level. Now assume that a corpse run cuts that in half to 2 1/2%. The corpse run is a means of making death half as painful in terms of xp loss and it may not be difficult to do, especially if some classes can summon the spirit to the body or summon the body to an easily reachable place. Ergo I will worry less about dying in a game with corpse runs than in a game with a flat 5% penalty.

    My logic is, of course, flawed by a slanted hypothetical. If VR would have used that 5%/ 2 1/2% system with corpse runs, with a high degree of probability they would have a lower percentage penalty if corpse runs weren't available to ameliorate the pain. Maybe 3%.

    • 3016 posts
    March 22, 2017 4:17 PM PDT

    dorotea said:

    Go back long enough and loss of items was PVE not PVP. But neither of us wants it.

    I could argue that a corpse run makes dying less painful and reduces how much players care but that really depends on the other mechanics.

    Hypothetically and not by way of suggestion, assume death costs a flat 5% of a level. Now assume that a corpse run cuts that in half to 2 1/2%. The corpse run is a means of making death half as painful in terms of xp loss and it may not be difficult to do, especially if some classes can summon the spirit to the body or summon the body to an easily reachable place. Ergo I will worry less about dying in a game with corpse runs than in a game with a flat 5% penalty.

    My logic is, of course, flawed by a slanted hypothetical. If VR would have used that 5%/ 2 1/2% system with corpse runs, with a high degree of probability they would have a lower percentage penalty if corpse runs weren't available to ameliorate the pain. Maybe 3%.

     

    Corpse runs have never made dying less painful..not at least in vanilla EQ.    If you can't find help you have to do it yourself, which means going back to the place you died, possibly trying to evade or kill the same mobs camping your corpse.    There were no magical fairy trails leading you to your corpse..  If you realized you were going to die you did a /loc to get the approximate location of where your body was going to be.    All that in your nudeness..no weapons but a couple of nuke spells (if you were a caster)    corpse runs in EQ were never easy mode when you first started out.   The only time that gets easier is when you are higher level, there are clerics that can rez you,  people who can drag your corpse to a safer location.     No graveyards.   No fairy trails..no walking around in ghost mode.   :)   Don't agree with gear loss or gear rot.    Not necessary to add that on top of the fact you've just died.    Some games add a debuff on...so you can't even fight your way back to your corpse because all your skills are diminished for 20 minutes or so.     And how much exps you lose depends on how many times you die before you finally get to your corpse.  :P

    • 57 posts
    March 22, 2017 4:37 PM PDT

    CanadinaXegony said: 

    Corpse runs have never made dying less painful..not at least in vanilla EQ.    If you can't find help you have to do it yourself, which means going back to the place you died, possibly trying to evade or kill the same mobs camping your corpse.    There were no magical fairy trails leading you to your corpse..  If you realized you were going to die you did a /loc to get the approximate location of where your body was going to be.    All that in your nudeness..no weapons but a couple of nuke spells (if you were a caster)    corpse runs in EQ were never easy mode when you first started out.   The only time that gets easier is when you are higher level, there are clerics that can rez you,  people who can drag your corpse to a safer location.     No graveyards.   No fairy trails..no walking around in ghost mode.   :)   Don't agree with gear loss or gear rot.    Not necessary to add that on top of the fact you've just died.    Some games add a debuff on...so you can't even fight your way back to your corpse because all your skills are diminished for 20 minutes or so.     And how much exps you lose depends on how many times you die before you finally get to your corpse.  :P

     

    This is the game I remember and never was repeated in future games. Death ment something, it forced people to learn the game and fear encounters and not zerg. Losing a level because you died enough ment you needed to get enough experience into a level especially while raiding. It made you socialize and group up for content. I can't remember but I think in EverQuest ][ and World of Warcraft you ran back as a ghost. Since I played on a PvP server on WoW, you made sure to look around for that player that killed you and to get into the air as fast as you could after grabbing your corpse. In Star Wars: The Old Republic it was just damage to your gear every time you died and to people with in game currency was nothing (Granted for some reason most everyone I raided with was poor except me who was one of the richest on the server).

    • 170 posts
    March 22, 2017 4:51 PM PDT

    Aradune said:

    Whew, awesome thread, great ideas, etc.

    As I've stated before, the 'severity' of Pantheon's death penalty will likely lie inbetween two 'extremes':  Vanilla EQ and Vanilla VG.  We need to find that sweet spot in-between the two.  Totally naked corpse runs are probably too extreme.  But, on the other end of the pendulum, trivializing death penalties leads to all sorts of problems.  Players don't respect the environment, aren't encouraged to play seriously and with forethought, etc.  At the same time, if we go too far the other way, many players will want to avoid death to such a great degree that exploration, trying new tactics, taking on that formidable boss-mob, etc. will suffer.  

    The goal, of course, is to come up with a death penalty that is desired by our target audience.  That's easier said than done, though, because even though you all are more often on the same page than not when it comes to design and mechanics, there are a few categories where there is not an obvious or clear mandate from our community.  The death penalty, of course, is one of these.  

    So when it comes to situations like this, here is our general approach:  

    Define the two extremes.  Set up the system where it's relatively easy to 'tune' between these two extremes.  Implement during alpha and beta the system and adjust the 'tuning'.  Watch the players, listen to the community, etc.  Adjust accordingly and, hopefully, narrow things down.

    This is, of course, a great example of why a long beta is so important to MMORPG development.  Opinions and plans are great, but often until players are actually experiencing these critical mechanics and systems we developers need to wait and watch (and not commit to specifics).  

    So that will be our approach -- try the spectrum out in alpha and beta, listen to the community, experience it ourselves, and slowly but surely iron out the details.

    Lastly, in the event that the community becomes truly split on something as critical as the Death Penalty and its associated mechanics, we always have the option to implement variations on the theme depending on the server/shard.  Athough it's far too early to speculate with any certainty, the penalty for dying in Pantheon may turn out to be something that becomes part of our Alternate Ruleset Servers, with the details and severity depending on which server/shard you've chosen to play on.

    As always you listen to and inform your community of players, Thank You! Now my take is the somewhere between Vanilla EQ and Vanilla VSOH is great but I especially am encouraged by the possibility of it being more hardcore/extreme on an alternate server such a hardcore server. IMO that is what made you plan your adventure in EQ and not just Leroy Jenkins into something. Because Death was a penalty and it should be. It also made grouping important and healers desired. Anyway I am excited to see what you come up with and try it in alpha and beta. Thanks again for updating to community Brad.

    • 86 posts
    March 24, 2017 7:33 AM PDT


    I'd like it like FFXI - stacking loss, with corpse runs and the option of re-spawning at base at a cost of a little more xp loss.

    • 3852 posts
    March 24, 2017 8:23 AM PDT

    >Corpse runs have never made dying less painful..not at least in vanilla EQ<

    Probably I wasn't clear enough - sorry. And I was focusing on general concepts not on how vanilla EQ worked.

    What I meant wasn't that a corpse run was easy or pleasant. What I meant was that if a successful corpse run reduced the cost of dying it, obviously, made dying less painful.

    Thus, if death meant that you lost an equipped item selected randomly from your equipment, which might be the best-in-slot item you spent enormous effort to get, death could be really really painful. Whereas if a successful corpse run let you keep all of your equipped items death wasn't nearly so painful. I've played games with that system. Not recently I hasten to add - not for decades.

    Or if death cost half a level, but a successful corpse run reduced that to 1/10 of a level, having the option to do that corpse run reduces the pain. By 40% of a level. Less the value of the time spent doing the actual run.

    • 3016 posts
    March 24, 2017 12:34 PM PDT

    dorotea said:

    >Corpse runs have never made dying less painful..not at least in vanilla EQ<

    Probably I wasn't clear enough - sorry. And I was focusing on general concepts not on how vanilla EQ worked.

    What I meant wasn't that a corpse run was easy or pleasant. What I meant was that if a successful corpse run reduced the cost of dying it, obviously, made dying less painful.

    Thus, if death meant that you lost an equipped item selected randomly from your equipment, which might be the best-in-slot item you spent enormous effort to get, death could be really really painful. Whereas if a successful corpse run let you keep all of your equipped items death wasn't nearly so painful. I've played games with that system. Not recently I hasten to add - not for decades.

    Or if death cost half a level, but a successful corpse run reduced that to 1/10 of a level, having the option to do that corpse run reduces the pain. By 40% of a level. Less the value of the time spent doing the actual run.

     

    Losing a piece of hard won gear,  (which means you have to go back and do that raid or adventure AGAIN) isn't my cup of tea, and hopefully that's not going to be in Pantheon (pretty sure it won't)   losing a level or losing that exp you just got previously..time spent recovering ..catching up to where you were,  is enough I think.    I don't think the Devs are going to expect us to sleep on a bed of nails or something similar,  because we died,  either due to lag (your ISP acting up)  someone ELSE's fault (Leeroy Jenkins comes to mind again)  or just a raid fail and wipe.      Give these Devs the benefit of the doubt..they're gamers too.  :)

    • 3852 posts
    March 24, 2017 1:59 PM PDT

    I don't expect overly draconian penalties either - and I emphatically want harsher penalties than MMOs have had in recent years.

    I think Pantheon will be have a reasonable balance - tough enough to keep us on our toes, not so tough that we all cower in place and run in terror at the thought of doing anything that we don't know with certainty is safe.

    A lot of us will think "too tough" or "too easy", humans being humans, but it will be somewhere in that reasonable zone.

     

    • 3016 posts
    March 24, 2017 2:20 PM PDT

    dorotea said:

    I don't expect overly draconian penalties either - and I emphatically want harsher penalties than MMOs have had in recent years.

    I think Pantheon will be have a reasonable balance - tough enough to keep us on our toes, not so tough that we all cower in place and run in terror at the thought of doing anything that we don't know with certainty is safe.

    A lot of us will think "too tough" or "too easy", humans being humans, but it will be somewhere in that reasonable zone.

     

     

    Absolutely,  and I don't want carebear either..there is a happy medium in there somewhere.  :)

    • 154 posts
    March 24, 2017 9:54 PM PDT

    Whew, I've read every post to this thread. While time consuming it was well worth it. I gained a lot of insight on what is obviously a controversial subject.

    After reading everyone's thoughts I checked the FAQ. According to the FAQ there will not be a loss of items with regards to a death penalty. On that I'm inclined to agree. Anyway, at the start of this topic we're basically asked what we think a death penalty should be, so in that sense, for the purposes of this tread all thoughts a valid, have merit and should be respectfully considered... I just keep reminding myself this applies to those I disagee with lol.

    My opinion is that I'm not a fan of exessively harsh death penalties. Still... there must be way to have a consequence for one's actions, failures, or perhaps more diplomatically stated "set backs". So we'll start with what I do like:

    1. Corpse runs. I think they're halarious and while annoying they're kinda fun and bring us together as a gaming community by helping eachother out. Bear in mind, the person we help may very well be the one who most likely will return the favor when we need it. 

    2. Exp loss. I think, so long as it's not too onerous, exp loss is a wonderful learning tool keeping people from trivial behavior. 

    3. Graveyards. Not a bad option imo if after a reasonable amount of time a corpse can't be recovered or found. I don't think it should take hrs or days. In lower lvls gear loss isn't so bad. Though as someone advances and needs the gear to play...well.....

    4. Someone came up with an idea I rather liked. Essentially, the idea was of a kind of everafter. Where upon death the Gods summon a player to a PvP situation or would have to complete an assigned task, for the right, to enter the Realm of The Living. I admit, I'm kinda biased here since I love PvP. I'm being humorious about this one. Still the idea is intrigueing.

    What I do not like:

    1. Repair/Durability Cost. Not a fan of that. It's not much of a penalty and gives the mindset of " Oh, no big, I'll just pay up and hop, skip and trall la la along. Nothing is learned this way.

    2. EXP Debt. Don't care for it. It's not really that much of a penalty. Oh sure.... one would have a debt to work off, though nothing is lost. It's more like a pause in time. Whereas an exp loss, the risk of losing a lvl perhaps gives incentive to learn a class/role better. Also, much of the thrill is lost when a reasonable consequence is lacking.

    3. Players who deliberately ruin others enjoyment by engaging in actions that get others killed. Which brings us back to #2 in of my likes, Exp Loss. May such unworthies lose enough lvls to take them to lvl 1 hmmph. 

    This is my thought and contribution on this matter. It's been a blast reading what you've all posted. 

     

     

     

     

     

    • 154 posts
    March 25, 2017 8:30 AM PDT

    I just realized something from reading the FAQ and posts people made on other threads. Pantheon will have enviroments that we'll have to acclimate too. The different enviroments will also affect spells and such. This will probably make the game more challenging... also the mobs will be more adaptive to us. SOme may chase us for...ever as in EQ while others will stand their ground. Further the AI will be more advanced, so there will be Mobs, according to the FAQ that will target some classes over others. This is exciting because this may make it harder for groups dealing with mobs. Imagine a situatation where a groups tank/s trying to hold the line has to deal with mobs specifically bypassing the tank/s to attack the cleric trying to heal them. Death's embrace may be more easily found in Pantheon, so perhaps a death penalty shouldn't be too severe. I still hold to what I said just above. There should be enough of a consequence to give someone pause. As for what I said in line 3 of my dislikes. Well, to that I still hold. I really hated the players who were deliberately finding ways of getting people killed for the fun of it. Then again, players like that will probably have a rep so bad no one will group with them and Pantheon willing they'll dy over and over so many times back to lvl 1 they go. So in that sense I may get my wish. 

     

    • 3016 posts
    March 25, 2017 8:58 AM PDT

    Risingmist said:

    I just realized something from reading the FAQ and posts people made on other threads. Pantheon will have enviroments that we'll have to acclimate too. The different enviroments will also affect spells and such. This will probably make the game more challenging... also the mobs will be more adaptive to us. SOme may chase us for...ever as in EQ while others will stand their ground. Further the AI will be more advanced, so there will be Mobs, according to the FAQ that will target some classes over others. This is exciting because this may make it harder for groups dealing with mobs. Imagine a situatation where a groups tank/s trying to hold the line has to deal with mobs specifically bypassing the tank/s to attack the cleric trying to heal them. Death's embrace may be more easily found in Pantheon, so perhaps a death penalty shouldn't be too severe. I still hold to what I said just above. There should be enough of a consequence to give someone pause. As for what I said in line 3 of my dislikes. Well, to that I still hold. I really hated the players who were deliberately finding ways of getting people killed for the fun of it. Then again, players like that will probably have a rep so bad no one will group with them and Pantheon willing they'll dy over and over so many times back to lvl 1 they go. So in that sense I may get my wish. 

     

    Mobs chasing us forever or not.   (Leashing)  there's a couple threads on that I believe..(I'm too lazy to look them up haven't had my morning coffee yet lol)   But try a search on mob leashing see what you come up with.  :)

     

    Cana

    • 319 posts
    March 25, 2017 9:35 AM PDT

    The death penalty in eq was the best I have seen. Corpse retrieval was always a pain in the buttocks but made you a little more carefull who and where you fought. While we are on the subject of death  what do you all think of the people who die 6-7-8 times in a row and leave a little something on thire corpse just to mess up the landscape??

     I think it should be dealt with harshly. Put a timer on the corpses and make concurrent. In other words if a timer for a corpse is 7 days with items left on them then if you have 7 corpses your timer is 1 day for all of them. They poof with or without your items. Sure some people have multiple deaths trying to retrieve thier body and items  but they are trying to get them back  not letting them rot there.  Or if that is not possible maybe something that can tell the server that the item on the corpse is mundane and there is no xp to recover. that way it can dispose of them and people will not have to run arounf or through them.

    • 154 posts
    March 25, 2017 10:09 AM PDT

    Isaya, I forgot about that. That was more than annoying. Good point.