Feyshtey said:Xxar said:Suggestion on the topic of CR . I propose a graveyard of sorts , this allows you to summon said corpse and gear. The downfall is 100 % broken gear and the exp loss can not be regained via rez or other options + a plat sink based on level.
So for example you die at the bottom of the dungeon , respawn at bind point ... You either can attempt to A. Go get corpse B. find a player to summon corpse / rez or C. Go to graveyard and have the corpse summoned for you with the above negatives.
This doesnt sound like a bad thing to me. I recognize that there are times where a recovery is just not an option, and I dont like the notion of full loss of items. But this is a painful alternative that strikes a pretty decent balance.
I like this as well. You can read my take on it a few posts above, with the added caveat that Option C is only available after a certain period of time. I proposed a week to encourage seeking out help from others.
Feyshtey said:Xxar said:Suggestion on the topic of CR . I propose a graveyard of sorts , this allows you to summon said corpse and gear. The downfall is 100 % broken gear and the exp loss can not be regained via rez or other options + a plat sink based on level.
So for example you die at the bottom of the dungeon , respawn at bind point ... You either can attempt to A. Go get corpse B. find a player to summon corpse / rez or C. Go to graveyard and have the corpse summoned for you with the above negatives.
This doesnt sound like a bad thing to me. I recognize that there are times where a recovery is just not an option, and I dont like the notion of full loss of items. But this is a painful alternative that strikes a pretty decent balance.
I wouldn't mind a system like that, but only if it was after at least 24 hours. There should be no fast fix to corpse recovery, even if the penalty is steep.
Dullahan said:Feyshtey said:Xxar said:Suggestion on the topic of CR . I propose a graveyard of sorts , this allows you to summon said corpse and gear. The downfall is 100 % broken gear and the exp loss can not be regained via rez or other options + a plat sink based on level.
So for example you die at the bottom of the dungeon , respawn at bind point ... You either can attempt to A. Go get corpse B. find a player to summon corpse / rez or C. Go to graveyard and have the corpse summoned for you with the above negatives.
This doesnt sound like a bad thing to me. I recognize that there are times where a recovery is just not an option, and I dont like the notion of full loss of items. But this is a painful alternative that strikes a pretty decent balance.
I wouldn't mind a system like that, but only if it was after at least 24 hours. There should be no fast fix to corpse recovery, even if the penalty is steep.
Maybe my suggesstion of a week is a little too harsh, but I feel even 24 hours is too little... maybe somewhere in the middle, say 3 days, lol.
Xxar said:Suggestion on the topic of CR . I propose a graveyard of sorts , this allows you to summon said corpse and gear. The downfall is 100 % broken gear and the exp loss can not be regained via rez or other options + a plat sink based on level.
So for example you die at the bottom of the dungeon , respawn at bind point ... You either can attempt to A. Go get corpse B. find a player to summon corpse / rez or C. Go to graveyard and have the corpse summoned for you with the above negatives.
This is a great idea! And like (I think) Dullahan said, maybe a timer before it is available so you maybe at least have to give the CR a shot or wait it out.
Panda said:Maybe my suggesstion of a week is a little too harsh, but I feel even 24 hours is too little... maybe somewhere in the middle, say 3 days, lol.
Making such a thing so punitive and costly is making something that shouldn't even be in the game. Almost no one will ever use such a thing unless they die right before going on vacation or rage quit for a handful of days. It does nothing to help active players who can't get back to their corpse. I'd get rid of any such timer and make it conditional on you dying again. If you die a second time and have now lost (for example) 20% of your exp then you can rez your oldest corpse that has items and wipes all other corpses of eligibility for exp rez, on top of having everything broken if durability exists in this game (please no, vendor runs and corpse runs are enough for making groups wait around).
Iksar said:Panda said:Maybe my suggesstion of a week is a little too harsh, but I feel even 24 hours is too little... maybe somewhere in the middle, say 3 days, lol.
Making such a thing so punitive and costly is making something that shouldn't even be in the game. Almost no one will ever use such a thing unless they die right before going on vacation or rage quit for a handful of days. It does nothing to help active players who can't get back to their corpse. I'd get rid of any such timer and make it conditional on you dying again. If you die a second time and have now lost (for example) 20% of your exp then you can rez your oldest corpse that has items and wipes all other corpses of eligibility for exp rez, on top of having everything broken if durability exists in this game (please no, vendor runs and corpse runs are enough for making groups wait around).
While I understand you saying, "It shouldn't be in the game," is your opinion, please remember that the suggesstions being thrown around here (including mine) are significantly less "punitive" than in the original EQ, which most of the community was a big fan of. In EQ, if you couldn't make it back to your body before the corpse timer expired, your loot went "poof".
"Almost no one will ever use such a thing" - That's the point.
"It does nothing to help active players who can't get back to their corpses" - Yes, it does. It gives them the opportunity to not lose all their gear. However, if someone is really having a hard time finding a group to help them or a necro summon after three days, then they are not trying hard enough. In almost a decade of EQ, I never once had this problem longer than a few hours.
EDIT: And with the conditional being you have to die again is catering to the solo player who doesn't want to seek out help. That's not what this game is about.
Panda said:While I understand you saying, "It shouldn't be in the game," is your opinion, please remember that the suggesstions being thrown around here (including mine) are significantly less "punitive" than in the original EQ, which most of the community was a big fan of. In EQ, if you couldn't make it back to your body before the corpse timer expired, your loot went "poof".
"Almost no one will ever use such a thing" - That's the point.
"It does nothing to help active players who can't get back to their corpses" - Yes, it does. It gives them the opportunity to not lose all their gear. However, if someone is really having a hard time finding a group to help them or a necro summon after three days, then they are not trying hard enough. In almost a decade of EQ, I never once had this problem longer than a few hours.
EDIT: And with the conditional being you have to die again is catering to the solo player who doesn't want to seek out help. That's not what this game is about.
Yes I am familiar with EQ and I never met anyone who had their corpse expire (but I am sure it has happened to some). But with a system like this you either get your corpse or you weren't trying hard enough anyway. Why go through the trouble to make some safety net after a few days if almost no one ever uses it and those that do weren't trying hard enough, why protect them? If you can't get to your corpse within X then you lose your gear, it isn't entirely unfair. For all we know decay timers could be a whole month with a fully populated corpse. Honestly I'd prefer EQ style corpse run or lose your stuff, but if implementing a feature to make things easier for few then at least let them swallow the cost upfront instead of waiting an arbitrary three days. Heck let them take a half level penalty for it or more.
The condition of dying again isn't really catering to the solo player. Most solo players in a group based game are more concerned about efficiency and losing an additional 10% exp vs going back to a place you were soloing isn't a hard choice. Most solo players aren't diving into dungeons unless they outlevel them and are farming, so getting back to their corpse is an easy task.
Iksar said:Panda said:While I understand you saying, "It shouldn't be in the game," is your opinion, please remember that the suggesstions being thrown around here (including mine) are significantly less "punitive" than in the original EQ, which most of the community was a big fan of. In EQ, if you couldn't make it back to your body before the corpse timer expired, your loot went "poof".
"Almost no one will ever use such a thing" - That's the point.
"It does nothing to help active players who can't get back to their corpses" - Yes, it does. It gives them the opportunity to not lose all their gear. However, if someone is really having a hard time finding a group to help them or a necro summon after three days, then they are not trying hard enough. In almost a decade of EQ, I never once had this problem longer than a few hours.
EDIT: And with the conditional being you have to die again is catering to the solo player who doesn't want to seek out help. That's not what this game is about.
Yes I am familiar with EQ and I never met anyone who had their corpse expire (but I am sure it has happened to some). But with a system like this you either get your corpse or you weren't trying hard enough anyway. Why go through the trouble to make some safety net after a few days if almost no one ever uses it and those that do weren't trying hard enough, why protect them? If you can't get to your corpse within X then you lose your gear, it isn't entirely unfair. For all we know decay timers could be a whole month with a fully populated corpse. Honestly I'd prefer EQ style corpse run or lose your stuff, but if implementing a feature to make things easier for few then at least let them swallow the cost upfront instead of waiting an arbitrary three days. Heck let them take a half level penalty for it or more.
The condition of dying again isn't really catering to the solo player. Most solo players in a group based game are more concerned about efficiency and losing an additional 10% exp vs going back to a place you were soloing isn't a hard choice. Most solo players aren't diving into dungeons unless they outlevel them and are farming, so getting back to their corpse is an easy task.
Setting a timer for a corpse to repop in a graveyard is as arbitrary as setting a sepcified amout of experience loss. The point of both systems is to A. discourage death and B. set a penalty for dying. However, in my opinion, not having the option to immediately recover a corpse with a loss of X% xp, guides the game to a more group-oriented atmosphere. Having to rely on help from others is a social opportunity. Removing that is an opportunity missed.
Iksar said:Panda said:While I understand you saying, "It shouldn't be in the game," is your opinion, please remember that the suggesstions being thrown around here (including mine) are significantly less "punitive" than in the original EQ, which most of the community was a big fan of. In EQ, if you couldn't make it back to your body before the corpse timer expired, your loot went "poof".
"Almost no one will ever use such a thing" - That's the point.
"It does nothing to help active players who can't get back to their corpses" - Yes, it does. It gives them the opportunity to not lose all their gear. However, if someone is really having a hard time finding a group to help them or a necro summon after three days, then they are not trying hard enough. In almost a decade of EQ, I never once had this problem longer than a few hours.
EDIT: And with the conditional being you have to die again is catering to the solo player who doesn't want to seek out help. That's not what this game is about.
Yes I am familiar with EQ and I never met anyone who had their corpse expire (but I am sure it has happened to some). But with a system like this you either get your corpse or you weren't trying hard enough anyway. Why go through the trouble to make some safety net after a few days if almost no one ever uses it and those that do weren't trying hard enough, why protect them? If you can't get to your corpse within X then you lose your gear, it isn't entirely unfair. For all we know decay timers could be a whole month with a fully populated corpse. Honestly I'd prefer EQ style corpse run or lose your stuff, but if implementing a feature to make things easier for few then at least let them swallow the cost upfront instead of waiting an arbitrary three days. Heck let them take a half level penalty for it or more.
The condition of dying again isn't really catering to the solo player. Most solo players in a group based game are more concerned about efficiency and losing an additional 10% exp vs going back to a place you were soloing isn't a hard choice. Most solo players aren't diving into dungeons unless they outlevel them and are farming, so getting back to their corpse is an easy task.
My corpse expired actually quite recently on P99, i died while logging out on my lvl 30 chanter and made the mistake of walking away from the PC before the logout finished and (i am guessing) the griffon in EC came along and whooped my butt in that time. Because I didnt realise that had happened and logged in more than a week later to a nude char and no corpse when i went back to find my stuff. I just accepted it for what it is and it is what it is and thats what we sign up for but a system that doesnt mean you lose everything would have been nice then :) Whether it is 24 hours or 3 days.
Panda said:Maybe my suggesstion of a week is a little too harsh, but I feel even 24 hours is too little... maybe somewhere in the middle, say 3 days, lol.
I agree. 3 days is better and hammers home the point better. The point being, that there are no shortcuts. You need to work together with people. This is not the game where you can solve life's (virtual) problems alone.
I still remember original EQ vividly, and I did not think it was too harsh then. With the experience of dozens of MMOs, I actually think EQ's original penalty was very manageable. With easy access to clerics at high levels, and the ability to almost completely erase death through resurrection, I don't think there should even be resurrection spells beyond 50% unless they call for expensive reagents.
Death must have consequences if the game is to continue feeling dangerous and challenging.
Hokanu said:Iksar said:Panda said:While I understand you saying, "It shouldn't be in the game," is your opinion, please remember that the suggesstions being thrown around here (including mine) are significantly less "punitive" than in the original EQ, which most of the community was a big fan of. In EQ, if you couldn't make it back to your body before the corpse timer expired, your loot went "poof".
"Almost no one will ever use such a thing" - That's the point.
"It does nothing to help active players who can't get back to their corpses" - Yes, it does. It gives them the opportunity to not lose all their gear. However, if someone is really having a hard time finding a group to help them or a necro summon after three days, then they are not trying hard enough. In almost a decade of EQ, I never once had this problem longer than a few hours.
EDIT: And with the conditional being you have to die again is catering to the solo player who doesn't want to seek out help. That's not what this game is about.
Yes I am familiar with EQ and I never met anyone who had their corpse expire (but I am sure it has happened to some). But with a system like this you either get your corpse or you weren't trying hard enough anyway. Why go through the trouble to make some safety net after a few days if almost no one ever uses it and those that do weren't trying hard enough, why protect them? If you can't get to your corpse within X then you lose your gear, it isn't entirely unfair. For all we know decay timers could be a whole month with a fully populated corpse. Honestly I'd prefer EQ style corpse run or lose your stuff, but if implementing a feature to make things easier for few then at least let them swallow the cost upfront instead of waiting an arbitrary three days. Heck let them take a half level penalty for it or more.
The condition of dying again isn't really catering to the solo player. Most solo players in a group based game are more concerned about efficiency and losing an additional 10% exp vs going back to a place you were soloing isn't a hard choice. Most solo players aren't diving into dungeons unless they outlevel them and are farming, so getting back to their corpse is an easy task.
My corpse expired actually quite recently on P99, i died while logging out on my lvl 30 chanter and made the mistake of walking away from the PC before the logout finished and (i am guessing) the griffon in EC came along and whooped my butt in that time. Because I didnt realise that had happened and logged in more than a week later to a nude char and no corpse when i went back to find my stuff. I just accepted it for what it is and it is what it is and thats what we sign up for but a system that doesnt mean you lose everything would have been nice then :) Whether it is 24 hours or 3 days.
I think the reason for the corpse lasting so short a time is abuse by players. I remember people dying repeatedly to litter the ground with corpses. They also dropped items all over the ground to create designs.
I'm not sure if that would be as much of an issue today. In those days people would get away with whatever they could. Take for instance this message board. It would have been far more chaotic in the days of EQ. People would likely be swearing and ranting. On the flip side this message board is very swivel and most people are trying to be moderators without even having the job. It's likely we wouldn't see nearly as much abuse in game for various different mechanics. Perhaps having longer corpse duration might something they could experiment with.
To add danger to the game they could introduce a creature progression system.
Where creatures see growth in power as they kill players.
Creatures get experience for killing you.Might be a % of your experience?
Any creature could level up with the seniority system.The stronger they get,the better treasures they carry
Zones would become near impossible to solo.Players would have to choose the amount of risk they are willing to take together.
Also keeps each zone challenging and increasingly difficult if players are hasty and untactful.
There would have to be a strong death penalty in this case.Otherwise players would die on purpose to create a boss.
That problem might solve itself if the boss grows to be more than the group of players can chew?
Could this create a beautiful interdependence in the community as a call for help would not be uncommon?
The severity of your death penalty could relate to context
If you die many times in a short time,it would be fitting to have a hard lasting penalty. If you die by accident from a fall ,the penalty could be forgiving the first time.
Other players might be able to drag your corpse along.Rather than a corpse run that keeps everyone waiting
I'd love to see a system that requires the entire group to help.You are in it together as a group so interdependence is desirable in a multiplayer.
If a group kicks a dead player a hard curse on them would not be misplaced.
Interdependence is key I think.If your group is doing well,you are doing well
If your group is doing poorly,you are doing poorly.
Might be cool if different classes have different ways to be resurrected.Like druids can resurrect under the tree of life.Necromancers can cast a spell that will resurrect them after some time.Wizard could be resurrected by the group performing a ritual.Or each race could have resurrection methods? Skar licky toe <3
Fluffy said:To add danger to the game they could introduce a creature progression system.
Where creatures see growth in power as they kill players.
Creatures get experience for killing you.Might be a % of your experience?
Any creature could level up with the seniority system.The stronger they get,the better treasures they carry
Zones would become near impossible to solo.Players would have to choose the amount of risk they are willing to take together.
Also keeps each zone challenging and increasingly difficult if players are hasty and untactful.
How exactly do you purpose that works? How would you stop trolls from dying over and over to 'buff' a boss since death penalty wouldn't work as they would just get rezs? It would become something stupid like "hey someone log a lvl 1 we can escort to X boss to buff it for the loot". Unless it was level based. But regardless you are talking about an entire system that would have to be worked into base coding. Pretty sure that isn't going to happen as it would require a ground up reboot
Same leveling rules would apply to creatures. a level 1 player would not provide experience to a lvl 15 and higher boss . Dying many times in a short time would have a hard penalty too.
Bouncy fluffy boss could still absorb level 1 players <3
Fluffy said:Same leveling rules would apply to creatures. a level 1 player would not provide experience to a lvl 15 and higher boss . Dying many times in a short time would have a hard penalty too.
Bouncy fluffy boss could still absorb level 1 players <3
I am against this , I have a legendary toon on guildwars exploiting this same concept. I litterly spent days having mobs farm a alt , then on the main killed them for exp.... lvl 20 in the starter area.
I played guildwars a long time ago.Mobs gaining experience there is new to me
Who would want to stop you from spending days farming levels if that is your choice?
The level range cap on experience gain could be as strict as they like it to be.
You need to go get your abilities all over Terminus as they are not handed to you.
How would days of farming a toon to 20 in starting area be exploiting?
If the progression is horizontal and the difference in power between level 1 and 20 is trivial. me no know these thingies
Wouldn't stop a player that longs to spent days farming a character to 20 in the starting area.Any character is free to go anywhere ? <3
Panda said:Iksar said:Panda said:Maybe my suggesstion of a week is a little too harsh, but I feel even 24 hours is too little... maybe somewhere in the middle, say 3 days, lol.
Making such a thing so punitive and costly is making something that shouldn't even be in the game. Almost no one will ever use such a thing unless they die right before going on vacation or rage quit for a handful of days. It does nothing to help active players who can't get back to their corpse. I'd get rid of any such timer and make it conditional on you dying again. If you die a second time and have now lost (for example) 20% of your exp then you can rez your oldest corpse that has items and wipes all other corpses of eligibility for exp rez, on top of having everything broken if durability exists in this game (please no, vendor runs and corpse runs are enough for making groups wait around).
While I understand you saying, "It shouldn't be in the game," is your opinion, please remember that the suggesstions being thrown around here (including mine) are significantly less "punitive" than in the original EQ, which most of the community was a big fan of. In EQ, if you couldn't make it back to your body before the corpse timer expired, your loot went "poof".
"Almost no one will ever use such a thing" - That's the point.
"It does nothing to help active players who can't get back to their corpses" - Yes, it does. It gives them the opportunity to not lose all their gear. However, if someone is really having a hard time finding a group to help them or a necro summon after three days, then they are not trying hard enough. In almost a decade of EQ, I never once had this problem longer than a few hours.
EDIT: And with the conditional being you have to die again is catering to the solo player who doesn't want to seek out help. That's not what this game is about.
When I played on Xegony as my Cleric I made a habit of grabbing people's corpse's and rez'ing them (Was a load of "fun" in Sebilis during the rare times it was near empty). And on the times my character died it never really took that long for someone to come along to help CR or summon. Same when I was on Stromm as my Necro. I'd help summon the corpses for the cost of the component.
If a person can not get help after 3 days then yes, that person is not trying or that person has a bad rep and noone wants to help - in most situations -. I'd personally like to have it like it was back when EQ came out. Your body stayed where it was and with your gear. It makes the game much more interesting and fun since you'll care about your character more (and not do stupid things just because there's no consequences to your actions).
Fluffy said:I played guildwars a long time ago.Mobs gaining experience there is new to me
Who would want to stop you from spending days farming levels if that is your choice?
The level range cap on experience gain could be as strict as they like it to be.
You need to go get your abilities all over Terminus as they are not handed to you.How would days of farming a toon to 20 in starting area be exploiting?
If the progression is horizontal and the difference in power between level 1 and 20 is trivial. me no know these thingies
Wouldn't stop a player that longs to spent days farming a character to 20 in the starting area.Any character is free to go anywhere ? <3
lvl 20 was the cap at the time. I had the ability to power level off guards at will since the guards where level 15ish. I was running around basicly insta leveling toons for fun , in a non pvp enviroment (you where not in the main game yet) not to mention black dyes.
If mobs gained exp it bloated there exp values , so you took a token toon had it die a bunch of times , inflated the exp value of a trival mob , then with your main killed said mob for the inflated exp values.
So in general you entered the game max level , never had to worry about pvp , fully dyed armor (big deal in that game) and the rest of the game was basicly trivialized.
Just my 2c on why im against it :)
Can't really figure out what value a level has to me.
I love the shiny effects when leveling up happens <3 A sense of progression and accomplishment?
Also wonder whats in the number
Are you against it in a reverse situation? players enntering the game max level,never having to worry about pve?
Played all the campaigns in guildwars 1,loved the story,the cutscenes with my toon in it.
I crave for adventure and exploration and care less about how I reach max level.
If you say entering the game max level basically trivialized the game
My fluffy puffy thinks we attach importance to different things
and we look for different things in games
Guildwars 1 had an interesting death penalty
https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Death_Penalty
Especially the part about experience gain reducing the death penalty
Edit
Have you seen http://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5202/pantheon-features-on-mmorpg-com
?
Number 4 talks about how a cleric could pray to discover things in the world.If character progression is linked to exploration in this way and if you have to gather abilities in the world. Would it even matter if players would be able to farm to max level in the starting area? Levels on itself might have little meaning as that character would still lack all the abilities and information a full grown character needs to be a master.
Well fluffy , that is the entire point of these threads :)
We do see things diffrent , theres nothing wrong with that.
I see levels as a measure of progression , time invested , mastering ones class in a basic state .. even more so if there is deleveling or exp loss.
One does not get to max level without understanding the mechanics behind the class in my view. Even more important to me , because the general population knows you at least have a basic understanding of things like cures , mez and aggro management. I think we have all seen the cleric that never cured , or the wizard that does ice comet on pull.
This view point addresses those things.
I am a firm believer that if you are going to have a level based system , then the levels themselfs need to "mean" something and not just be a treadmill to reach endgame.
Where each level in itself is a accomplishment that leads to the OOOOoos and AAHHHhh of other players when you do reach level cap or have that uber sword of slaying.
That is missing in modern mmos.
The wow , he/she knows there **** or feeling of accomplishment when reaching cap or earning that sword. There was a real risk vs reward to get there or earn it.
This gave players something to strive for compared to most modern mmos , where you are a copy paste , following a BIS list , pre determined number crunched spec and rotation.
A mastery system might do as well as levels.Or military ranks could substitute levels.
Where a reduction in rank or degradation replaces exp loss.
Not against levels but there might be other ways to measure mastery or progression.
We could start another topic about this that would soon see many pages
Agree with risk vs reward .
One of the greater issues is that players are able to supply their own needs without exteral assistance.
So I'm all for the idea that monsters and content will be very difficult to tackle alone,to forge a strong community where they need others.
Racial resurrection shrines have been on my mind
Each race could honor their ancestors by activating their shrine
The more players interact with the shrine that relates to their race,the better it functions.
Interaction with your respective racial shrine grants a moral boost, reduces respawn time slightly for others players playing the same race e.g. every 10 players interacting reduces respawn time by 2 seconds.
When you have a death penalty you can also pay respect at any shrine for a chance to slightly reduce your penalty and a small chance of getting an empty ressurection gem. Shrines can also increase your death penalty if they are cursed.Only shrines of other races can put a curse on you.How neglected a shrine is might be a factor in how likely it is for a shrine to put a curse on players
creatures would also have a drop rate for these gems that can be imbued at a ressurection shrine to resurrect someone of particular race on the spot.
e.g. tear of Syronai could be recharged at the resurrection pond for dark Myr,allowing a character who possesses a filled tear of Syronai to resurrect a dark Myr.
Would players have certain freedom to create shrines and can they be destroyed too?
Examples of shrines for each race follow
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Hi, new to the forums, have been following pantheon for a while but was only able to pledge recently, I think this is one of the most important threads on the entire forums and I want to contribute with some of my ideas and views on the death penalty.
First of I never played EQ or Vanguard, but I recently played on p99 and a great deal of fun and also it was my first experience with corpse running in an mmo, and I have to say, I loved it!
I know this is a controversial topic and that not everyone will agree so I will do my best to explain why I like the EQ Death Penalty and why it should be in pantheon.
First off I will list my pros and cons and then give some insight on some of the ideas I have for the implementation of the death penalty.
Cons
- Frustration
- drive away new players
- screw up your sleep schedule due to a late night raid corpse run (never experienced this but saw some posts about it, although it’s rare)
- may discourage exploration of dangerous zones
-….(fell free to give me some more)
Pros
- Makes the world feel more dangerous
- Death becomes a way bigger deal (it’s something you try to avoid at all costs)
- Doing something Dangerous successfully has a higher prestige
- ….(fell free to give me some more)
I know retrieving the corpse/gear can be a really hard task while you’re naked so here are some of my ideas to cope with it.
First off no permanent gear loss, your corpse has a X day decompose timer, if the timer runs out you can pay an NPC (ex:” league of corpse retrievers” or something). The corpse would comeback but no xp could be restored. The price of this service could be determined by the level of the zone. This is a last resort method of getting your stuff back (The main punishment of this method is not being able to progress/play during the time you’re waiting to retrieve your corpse).
Necro corpse summons – self-explanatory I think
Corpse dragging – rogues and ranger could use sneak to retrieve the corpses (It’s cool to image a rogue sneaking trough a dangerous dungeon to get the corpses of the group (maybe carry more than 1 corpse at a time?)).
Gear summoning – Summoners (maybe wizards?) could summon the groups equipped gear (the corpse and inventory stays there giving the group a reason the try and retrieve it)
These ways of retrieving your gear/corpse, create class interdependency and create a “new” role corpse retrievers giving some classes a niche thing to do in the case of a wipe.
I think we can all agree that if death is just a minor setback (a 10 min run back) we would play the game in a completely different way, and xp loss will not prevent this, it will help but not to such a high degree that makes the player really fear death, that’s where retrieving gear from the corpse comes in. If retrieving your corpse is a necessity then death means a whole lot more.
These are my reason for an EQ style death penalty, I’m aware we will have to wait until alpha to test and adjust this system.
Also if you have the time read this http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/the-death-penalty-mechanic-and-loss-aversion-in-mmo-design/ it’s a great article on the death penalty.
Here's you a unique (as far as I know) way of doing death penalty I came up with for a game that I scrapped.
3.5.10 Player Death
Upon death, the player’s “soul” is sent into Limbo, a free-for-all PvP battlefield, where all players, regardless of their skills, are brought to an equal plane of power. Once a player’s soul enters Limbo they will have five minutes to complete one of a selection of tasks to appease the gatekeepers and earn their passage back to the land of the living early. The player may choose one of the following options: Challenge NPC foes in a event where the player cannot be helped by anyone and must annihilate all opponents without dying, Engaging in a free-for-all PvP battle and earn a single kill, or Bribe the gatekeepers with coins for passage. If none of the tasks are completed within the 5 minutes, the player is sent back to their body with a random debuff that lasts for 30 minutes.
NPC Ring Challenge
In the ring challenge, the player will be pitted against three creatures within Limbo themselves. The creatures each player face will be randomized in both type and difficulty. After each creature is slain, the player must signal they are ready for the next fight before the next creature appears. The better the battle, the more appeased the gatekeepers are with you.
PvP One-Kill Challenge
In the PvP One-Kill Challenge, the player is thrown into a battlefield amongst all other people in Limbo. With their skills and powers equal, players will be tested on the tactics and cunning in battle to determine who is worthy of returning. To prove to the gatekeepers they are worthy of passage, the player must extinguish another players soul. After extinguishing a soul, the player must safely make their way back to the gatekeepers for passage. If the player chooses, they may wipe more than one soul from Limbo. Doing so results in a higher approval from the gatekeepers. If a player dies in this challenge, they are knocked out for 15 seconds. After the 15 seconds, they regain consciousness.
Bribing
If a player does not feel confident in their skills in battle, they can always bribe the gatekeepers with the promise of riches from the land of the living. If the player chooses this path, they will be immediately sent back to their body with a curse on them. This curse will slightly reduce their physical and mental abilities as well as prevent them from receiving Promotional or Training Notes. This curse can stack with multiple deaths and can only be removed by donating gold or equally valued items to the gatekeepers of Limbo via any graveyard.
I have always been pro-corpse run, even in early EQ when everyone around me was freaking out and demanding that it be removed.
In retrospect, I am actually more for it than ever before. Having experienced so many other games, I have to say that corpse runs really brought people together in ways that no other mechanic has ever managed to do. It also creates some of the most powerful, tremendous memories that last and go on for years.
I'll liken it to when your parents are punishing you as a kid. Years later, you look back on it, and you realize in such a real, visceral level, that you became the person you did because your parents were strict with you. On the other hand, for many, climbing out of the window to go to a party and hiding when your parents come to find you also create some of the strongest, deepest, and most enduring memories.
You may remember going to the zoo, but you will never forget the time you got lost and how it felt to see your parents again.
Adversity not only brings people together against a common foe (adversity itself), it creates enduring memories, it forges bonds that are often unbreakable, it creates a feeling of real fear (which makes the game feel more real), and it makes people interact with other people (provided there are necessary services that come only from other players).
If you put in a graveyard with anything less than a VERY long timer (I'm talking about 2 weeks to 30 days), then you are basically ruining the above. Corpse loss becomes pointless when it can simply be recovered with a 15 minute wait. That makes it annoying, but not memorable. Memorable is good... pointlessly obnoxious isn't helpful in the grand scheme of things.
Some people will quit over corpse runs. On the other hand, people will eventually quit if the death penalty fails to make the game feel truly terrifying. From a psychological aspect, humans both crave security and insecurity. The ability to be perfectly safe (sitting in your living room, and you're fine) while being able to have genuine fear experiences is the perfect way for modern humans to manufacture dopamine and thus experience "euphoric moments". It's interesting to note that it's almost inevitable that these euphoric experiences go hand-in-hand with fear experiences.
Very harsh death penalties are the things that people scream bloody murder about because they don't THINK they want to be genuinely scared. But it is that genuine fear that keeps them coming back year after year after year.
