There's something that is often missing in MMORPGs, which I'd very much like to see in Pantheon, is bodyfat/muscle customization/variety.
Am I the only one who would like to see various Ogres running around, some being really FAT (roleplaying an Ogre that eats all the time), some others being HULKS (roleplaying a mass murderer Warrior Ogre or something), and of course, average ones as well.
Of course, there would be some limits depending on races, for example, I dont see elves able to achieve a massive bodybuilder body (nor a massive fat body), but they could be kind of thin, ripped fit.
What do you think about this ?
I would love to see this but if it gets left out but the rest of the game is amazing id be fine with armor and gear looking different and helping differentiate players. That worked back in the EQ days I think i'd be appeased with that though i'd love to have City of Heroes or better level of customization of my characters overall appearance.
I think character custimization is pretty over rated. As Oggle said, basic custimization worked well in EQ1. Granted, the landscape has changed and the modern MMO player is looking for some more custimization so I will admit it is probably necessary. That being said, I hope it isn't anything crazy. If you have played any MMOs lately that have a lot of custimization, there are some very immersion breaking characters running around.
Here is a screenshot from Jim Lee recently playing Pantheon showing the current version of the character creation screen:
You can probably expect something similar at launch. Although not exactly the same - I think there are plans to add a weight slider in addition to other tweaks.
Also see:
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/6671/how-in-depth-is-character-customization
Squall said:I think character custimization is pretty over rated. As Oggle said, basic custimization worked well in EQ1. Granted, the landscape has changed and the modern MMO player is looking for some more custimization so I will admit it is probably necessary. That being said, I hope it isn't anything crazy. If you have played any MMOs lately that have a lot of custimization, there are some very immersion breaking characters running around.
I've never had my immersion broken by character customization in the sense I think OP meant, i.e. at character creation, including height, weight, colour of various body parts... Maybe you don't like to see people running around with green or pink hair, but it doesn't bother me one bit. Usually the big offenders are skins/costumes that do look completely out of place, or in the worst cases, token sexualized races.
As for Pantheon, I would like to see as much customization as possible as long as it looks good and runs well. No point in having total control over how your character looks when 99% of people are going to be deep in the uncanny valley, or when all the customization will put too much strain on the server and/or client. More or less customization really isn't what will make or break the game for me, especially if there is enough variety of clothing and armour that otherwise identical characters can look different.
My main concern is avatar customization (girth/height) having a negative affect on how efficiently artists can produce armor.
I did find this:
About how long does it take to make one set of armor once you begin?
Will: The modeling takes about 4-6 days depending on complexity. Higher tier stuff with lots of detailed parts takes a bit longer.
The current female armors are refits of the male armor so we've developed a workflow to do the refits quickly. These can take anywhere from a few hours to a day per set. We can also use this to transfer armors between the other races. Saves a bit of time.
This sounds like maybe it can be automated once the initial refitting is done. If so, I would be down having that ability in the character creator. But I's not somethign I'll be disappointed with if it doesn't make it.
bobwinner said:There's something that is often missing in MMORPGs, which I'd very much like to see in Pantheon, is bodyfat/muscle customization/variety.
Am I the only one who would like to see various Ogres running around, some being really FAT (roleplaying an Ogre that eats all the time), some others being HULKS (roleplaying a mass murderer Warrior Ogre or something), and of course, average ones as well.
It has just always struck me as odd or otherwise felt a bit "off" when an MMO lets players control weight and have rather rotund characters. All these players are adventurers running many miles a day with heavy equipment and engaging in combat yet somehow some look like they have been sitting on a couch eating deep fried twinkies without moving for a year. I guess it's all a fantasy world though so maybe they are literally magically fat.
Iksar said:bobwinner said:There's something that is often missing in MMORPGs, which I'd very much like to see in Pantheon, is bodyfat/muscle customization/variety.
Am I the only one who would like to see various Ogres running around, some being really FAT (roleplaying an Ogre that eats all the time), some others being HULKS (roleplaying a mass murderer Warrior Ogre or something), and of course, average ones as well.
It has just always struck me as odd or otherwise felt a bit "off" when an MMO lets players control weight and have rather rotund characters. All these players are adventurers running many miles a day with heavy equipment and engaging in combat yet somehow some look like they have been sitting on a couch eating deep fried twinkies without moving for a year. I guess it's all a fantasy world though so maybe they are literally magically fat.
Have you ever seen professional "power lifters"? I don't mean the guys sitting there oild up on stage posing. I mean genuine power lifters. They tend to look "fat" rather than muscular, even though it's solid muscle under there. That's because sculpted muscle is much different from "useful" muscle. With this in mind, I could see a "fat looking" character who travels alot and does alot of combat.
Yes but powerlifters dedicate most all of their time to lifting heavy weights stationary, they aren't endurance atheletes and do almost no cardio or other training regimens. Compare that to an adventuring warrior running around the world in plate and fighting creatures with melee weaponry as well as consider the warrior wouldn't have the time nor access to the sheer amount of food intake required to get that big, let alone the space in his pack.
But it's whatever. If people want to be fat and VR wants to model armor to also include different weights then go for it!
Iksar said:Yes but powerlifters dedicate most all of their time to lifting heavy weights stationary, they aren't endurance atheletes and do almost no cardio or other training regimens. Compare that to an adventuring warrior running around the world in plate and fighting creatures with melee weaponry as well as consider the warrior wouldn't have the time nor access to the sheer amount of food intake required to get that big, let alone the space in his pack.
But it's whatever. If people want to be fat and VR wants to model armor to also include different weights then go for it!
Tanks, in general, aren't small. They're called "tank" for a reason. Seeing a tank that looks like a tri-athelete or an Iron Man runner would look silly too.
But I agree. Run whateveer floats your boat.
I think character custimization is pretty over rated. As Oggle said, basic custimization worked well in EQ1. Granted, the landscape has changed and the modern MMO player is looking for some more custimization so I will admit it is probably necessary. That being said, I hope it isn't anything crazy. If you have played any MMOs lately that have a lot of custimization, there are some very immersion breaking characters running around.
19 years ago with computers, data transfert and possibilities that were way way lower than now. It's not just a matter of current expectation, but let's be realistic, back then playing online was already a fear of strength by itself. RPG are about making your character unique and engaging, in no table top you are forced to play bland characters that mostly look like each other, and now that the tech is able to offer much in that sense, no reason to miss it.
Iksar said:It has just always struck me as odd or otherwise felt a bit "off" when an MMO lets players control weight and have rather rotund characters. All these players are adventurers running many miles a day with heavy equipment and engaging in combat yet somehow some look like they have been sitting on a couch eating deep fried twinkies without moving for a year. I guess it's all a fantasy world though so maybe they are literally magically fat.
I think it's worth pointing out that many roleplayers wouldn't actually portray their character in the exact same way that their avatar acts. For example, my character in-game is a lady of the upper gentry of Thronefast. She's cultured and elegant and has tons of her own political problems. However, there will be times that I call "out of character", where my avatar will certainly be used to go exploring deep into dungeons and caves, things a lady would never do. If I were forced to make my character look fit and active enough to do all the adventuring that I want to do as a player, she wouldn't look as delicate as I want her to seem as a lady, so there can definitely be a disconnect there.
And while I'm all for immersion, I also really want to like how my character looks. This becomes relevant when we think of questions like: how common is it, in this day and age, for the average [insert race here] to bathe, or to brush their teeth. How far along has dermatology advanced? How advanced is modern medicine? Assuming that the answers to some of these questions belie habits and practices that are less advanced than today... should we then be forced to have characters with chipped, unkempt teeth? Should we be forced to have characters with blotched, disease-ridden faces and bodies?
The point I'm trying to make is that within a fantasy universe, we are already suspending the disbelief in many aspects to strike a balance between enjoyment and immersion. If someone wants to make a chubby character, I figure by all means!
Besides, Samwise from LotR was chubby!
I am all for anything that increases a paying customers satisfaction with the products being bought or rented. If you want a rolly polly ogre, go for it! I am a big believer in playerbase options even if my own characters tend toward generic and mainstream. Ultimately, all options such as character size, shape, name all need to take a backseat to what is truely important in an mmo; the game mechanics. If the game is broken or doesn't play well, you won't be in it long enough to come to care for your toon.
As someone that spends an inordinate amount of time on the character creation screen I hate to say this - but most customization options do not really mean that much.
Firstly. our characters are usually covered by armor or clothes, so effort spent customizing these may have a bigger payoff than having dozens of customization options for our bodies. Height, general body size, a few other things OK but outside of the head I am not convinced much more is desirable if it takes developer time or increases the load on the game.
Secondly, in a typical MMO you see your character's front on the log-in screen and that is about it unless you make a special effort. When you are crafting or fighting you normally see the back. So the developers may be well advised to devote their time to the backs of our heads and our arses. I am serious on this - little if anything affects what you actually see while playing than the hair styles (seen from the back) and hair colors. And even the hair becomes meaningless if you wear a concealing hat or head armor and don't check off "hide helmet" which I pray to all Gods Pantheon will provide for.
I'm all for character customization. I also agree with daemonios' comment about it's some of the custom skins and such that can be disruptive (for lack of a better term). i.e., Fantasy setting and seeing someone running around in a bikini or t-shirt with a teady bear on the front; Eastern fantasy/history setting and seeing someone in a cowboy hat and sunglasses. Though from everything VR has commented about the game I am pretty confident this is something that won't happen.
Just a comment about hair coloring and such, if you look at Halflings they are shown with face-paint and the first concept art had them with colored hair. I believe it is logical to believe other races on Terminus may have picked up on some of this and learned to use dyes and paints on themselves for various reasons. So seeing an elf with purple hair/purples streaks in their hair would not be too out of the ordinary nor an ogre with facepaint, to me at least.
My $0.02 worth.
dorotea said:As someone that spends an inordinate amount of time on the character creation screen I hate to say this - but most customization options do not really mean that much.
Firstly. our characters are usually covered by armor or clothes, so effort spent customizing these may have a bigger payoff than having dozens of customization options for our bodies. Height, general body size, a few other things OK but outside of the head I am not convinced much more is desirable if it takes developer time or increases the load on the game.
This too. For all the talk about how robust the character creation is in something like Black Desert Online, you look at any crowd of players together and aside from hair/skin colors and specific distinct hair styles everyone blend together and look somewhat generic.
I hadn't really looked too closely but that's a weird list on the Pre-Alpha character creation screen lol.
Height, Nose Size (! From height straight onto nose size? Hehe), Nose Tilt, Ear Size, Cheek Size (Chipmunk style?), Lip Size, Eye Size, Brow Height (Why just height?), Skin Color, Eye Color, Hair Style (Eye color, but not hair color?).
I don't doubt they've just picked a few to 'test', but it's an odd collection.
It's in the FAQ that there should be a "healthy amount of options", so I'm not worried, but, yeah, I would like to see us able to make characters that aren't just sculpted Adonis stereotypes.
I know it makes texture creation more difficult, but, I'd be happy with the odd but of armour looking stretched/squashed if I could have a fat character or a short character or whatever.
I do *not* however, need Black Desert Online style character creation. You needed to be an accomplished graphic artist and have an in depth knowledge of anatomy and design to use that one to good effect.