splitpawthanos said:I really hope there is at least height and weight. It always dissapoints me when a new MMORPG launches and everyone looks exactly the same.
Agreed. I remember in VG beta I had the perfect goblin worked out for launch. Then when launch came, the short/tall and fat/thin sliders were about 50% less range. So disappointing. :(
ACTUAL Human height range is ... incredible. Let's be honest. 153 cm / 5 ft to 193 cm / 6.3 ft? In both sexes? C'mon.. that's... absurd. A 40cm/16inch height range.. Fantasy should at least be no less absurd! :P
But if they want everyone to be ripped and average... meh, I guess that's ok. Would be nice to see more variety, though.
As long as there is a limit..one thing I saw a lot at the start in Vanguard (you could go back at any time and change features on your character, ) were top heavy female characters..and I am not exaggerating..top heavy to the point if someone pushed them with one finger they would fall flat on their faces. And some made extremely ugly characters, I wondered sometimes how long it took to make a character like those I saw, extremely ugly to the point of repulsive. lol. For me, I think of my character (roleplay) as an extension of me. Things have changed over the years, with names and character looks. Hoping that character creation is "reasonable"..over all and not too hard on the eyes. :P
Temmi said:Iksar said:It has just always struck me as odd or otherwise felt a bit "off" when an MMO lets players control weight and have rather rotund characters. All these players are adventurers running many miles a day with heavy equipment and engaging in combat yet somehow some look like they have been sitting on a couch eating deep fried twinkies without moving for a year. I guess it's all a fantasy world though so maybe they are literally magically fat.
I think it's worth pointing out that many roleplayers wouldn't actually portray their character in the exact same way that their avatar acts. For example, my character in-game is a lady of the upper gentry of Thronefast. She's cultured and elegant and has tons of her own political problems. However, there will be times that I call "out of character", where my avatar will certainly be used to go exploring deep into dungeons and caves, things a lady would never do. If I were forced to make my character look fit and active enough to do all the adventuring that I want to do as a player, she wouldn't look as delicate as I want her to seem as a lady, so there can definitely be a disconnect there.
And while I'm all for immersion, I also really want to like how my character looks. This becomes relevant when we think of questions like: how common is it, in this day and age, for the average [insert race here] to bathe, or to brush their teeth. How far along has dermatology advanced? How advanced is modern medicine? Assuming that the answers to some of these questions belie habits and practices that are less advanced than today... should we then be forced to have characters with chipped, unkempt teeth? Should we be forced to have characters with blotched, disease-ridden faces and bodies?
The point I'm trying to make is that within a fantasy universe, we are already suspending the disbelief in many aspects to strike a balance between enjoyment and immersion. If someone wants to make a chubby character, I figure by all means!
Besides, Samwise from LotR was chubby!
Well..in medieval times (I was reading up on this for some ideas on ladies' voluminous dresses as I wanted to draw one) they used to brush their teeth with honey (to make their breath sweet, but pretty sure it rotted their teeth.) Men used to walk on the outside of the walkway...to save ladies dresses as they took a while to clean..because people would lean out their windows and empty their chamber pots into the street, whether people were walking below or not. Medieval times seem romantic until we read the history...lol And those wondrous wigs..sometimes could be homes to rats. :P Hygiene has improved over the centuries. :) And we seem to live longer these days. :)
disposalist said:Not as strange as you would think! Let's go through them shall we?I hadn't really looked too closely but that's a weird list on the Pre-Alpha character creation screen lol.
Height, Nose Size (! From height straight onto nose size? Hehe), Nose Tilt, Ear Size, Cheek Size (Chipmunk style?), Lip Size, Eye Size, Brow Height (Why just height?), Skin Color, Eye Color, Hair Style (Eye color, but not hair color?).
I don't doubt they've just picked a few to 'test', but it's an odd collection.
It's in the FAQ that there should be a "healthy amount of options", so I'm not worried, but, yeah, I would like to see us able to make characters that aren't just sculpted Adonis stereotypes.
I know it makes texture creation more difficult, but, I'd be happy with the odd but of armour looking stretched/squashed if I could have a fat character or a short character or whatever.
I do *not* however, need Black Desert Online style character creation. You needed to be an accomplished graphic artist and have an in depth knowledge of anatomy and design to use that one to good effect.
Height: Duh. The largest impact on your character's visual profile.
Two nose options: The nose is one of the largest and most distinctive parts of the face, despite it not getting a lot of visual attention sompared to the eyes and mouth. Important.
Ear size: Again, very distinctive. Large impact on your face's frontal profile and, for some races, actual profile as well.
Cheek size: While it's a little obtuse, I would imagine this is referring to the prominence and size of the cheekbones rather than the amount of fat on the cheeks. So it might range from prominent, angular cheekbones that project masculinity, strength, or severity versus soft, smaller cheekbones that project softness, gentleness, or youth.
Lip size: The mouth is the part of the face people instinctively look towards when someone is talking, so while I personally don't think mouth size matters much, it does have a large impact on how distinctive a face is, and the relationship between mouth-size and cheekbone prominence basically shapes the entire jaw. I personally think jaw-size or chin-size should be on the list too, but I digress.
Eye Size/Brow Height: Brow height is more about the size of the eye-sockets than the size of the forehead. I would imagine there might be some complications with helmet models with a brow prominence/depth slider, but then again I would imagine the same with brow height if the range is large enough.
Skin, Hair, Eyes: Something I think most people agree is important for their character creation. The range of skin colors available will be an interesting thing for Humans at least. Do they have the full range in Terminus, or is there is a limitation based on the genetic history of Thronefast? The basic one seems fairly tanned/Mediterranean, so I would imagine that it would go from that to North Africa, eschewing the paler shades and maybe also not having more Asiatic features. They might catch some flak for that decision though, so my best guess is having the full range of Earth human skin tones just to avoid drama.'
The two things all of the above have in common are thus: They all have a fairly large impact on how we perceive the distinctiveness of faces while also not having a huge impact on armor models, with the exceptions being height (which is necessary) and brow height (which, with the right kind of helmet models or a small range, is also unimportant.)
On 'girth': I would like a weight slider, actually. Being the kind of bulk of powerlifters would appeal to some, I think, and having your Wizard or Enchanter scrawny and pale from long hours in the library would be just as important as the hedonistic, short-sighted Warrior who carries respectable bulk on his waist due to his three-turkeys-a-day habit.
It would be cooler if the muscle to fat ratio was controlled by your strength, agility, dexterity, and constitution stats instead of a slider. No game does this currently, Pantheon should break the mold.Bad plan. It complicates things when a large amount of your stat bonuses can be swapped with your gear, not to mention that it complicates things down the road when they add new expansions with a new level cap and higher stats overall.
Bazgrim said:Here is a screenshot from Jim Lee recently playing Pantheon showing the current version of the character creation screen:
You can probably expect something similar at launch. Although not exactly the same - I think there are plans to add a weight slider in addition to other tweaks.
Also see:
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/6671/how-in-depth-is-character-customization
Ok im good with whats there except with Lip Size, it should have sliders for upper lip and bottom lip and how Wide or short you want the lips from making a Frog mouth to Angelina Jolie lips. But its missing also breast and chest size and waist and butt slider. Those would complete the CC, theres no need to goas detailed as other game but stay Basic and a bit Advanced the way Guild Wars 2 made their character creation.
dorotea said:As someone that spends an inordinate amount of time on the character creation screen I hate to say this - but most customization options do not really mean that much.
Firstly. our characters are usually covered by armor or clothes, so effort spent customizing these may have a bigger payoff than having dozens of customization options for our bodies. Height, general body size, a few other things OK but outside of the head I am not convinced much more is desirable if it takes developer time or increases the load on the game.
Secondly, in a typical MMO you see your character's front on the log-in screen and that is about it unless you make a special effort. When you are crafting or fighting you normally see the back. So the developers may be well advised to devote their time to the backs of our heads and our arses. I am serious on this - little if anything affects what you actually see while playing than the hair styles (seen from the back) and hair colors. And even the hair becomes meaningless if you wear a concealing hat or head armor and don't check off "hide helmet" which I pray to all Gods Pantheon will provide for.
As an rp'er I play in 1st person - I make my character for others to look at, not myself :)
Nevermind ..forgot I had posted to this thread already. :)
I wouldn't mind being able to make portly characters etc... Like you mentioned disposalist. Not everyone need be an Adonis.
Especially with the wonderfully silly looking Ogres and Trolls from EQ vanilla not being around in any form. Some different body shapes may be a good idea.
Atarius said:I wouldn't mind being able to make portly characters etc... Like you mentioned disposalist. Not everyone need be an Adonis.
Especially with the wonderfully silly looking Ogres and Trolls from EQ vanilla not being around in any form. Some different body shapes may be a good idea.
I heard - not sure where - the ogres were getting a rework (well, I think they all are) and although they didn't go as far as arse scratching, there was mention of them being more 'portly'... Yay!
Iksar said:bobwinner said:There's something that is often missing in MMORPGs, which I'd very much like to see in Pantheon, is bodyfat/muscle customization/variety.
Am I the only one who would like to see various Ogres running around, some being really FAT (roleplaying an Ogre that eats all the time), some others being HULKS (roleplaying a mass murderer Warrior Ogre or something), and of course, average ones as well.
It has just always struck me as odd or otherwise felt a bit "off" when an MMO lets players control weight and have rather rotund characters. All these players are adventurers running many miles a day with heavy equipment and engaging in combat yet somehow some look like they have been sitting on a couch eating deep fried twinkies without moving for a year. I guess it's all a fantasy world though so maybe they are literally magically fat.
Their are rotund fighters such as Fedor Emelianenko, Tyson Fury and Butterbean. Fat athletes such as Dontari Poe who is 346 lbs defensive tackle who can run the 40 in under 5 seconds and is only 6'3". William Perry was 350 lbs and 6'2". Hell i hunt with a guy who is over 300 lbs and can hoof the mountains here with the best of em. I saw him carry two 300 lb hogs under each arm. Just because someone looks fat doesnt mean he doesn't have a lot of muscle under it. Sure someone morbidly obese would be an unlikely candidate for an adventurer but an obese adventurer who been active all his life but is genetically predisposed to be fat or eats more calories then he could burn off in his active day certainly could be.
Kittik said:Let me change the way I walk or stand. Face customozation doesn't even really matter that much. No one notices the faces. What we notice is the walk or run. Or even let me customize they position I sit when resting.
That would be super cool to be able to display your character's personality through 'animation sets'. Off the top of my head, I could see...
Feeble - perhaps if you're a Caster, your idle animation is leaning on your staff like you're about to keel over. When you sit down, you look thoroughly exhausted. Standing sees your hunched forward like Mr. Burns, haha.
Heroic - what I guess would be the quintessential confident hero type. Chest up, standing tall, confident stride. Maybe when they idle, they strike a pose not unlike a superhero, or if they have a two-handed weapon, they rest the tip on the ground and have sort of a 'stoic watcher' kind of thing like you'd imagine Heimdall to have.
The possibilities for a system like that are practically endless. Unfortunately the resources required for it just about are as well!
disposalist said:Atarius said:I wouldn't mind being able to make portly characters etc... Like you mentioned disposalist. Not everyone need be an Adonis.
Especially with the wonderfully silly looking Ogres and Trolls from EQ vanilla not being around in any form. Some different body shapes may be a good idea.
I heard - not sure where - the ogres were getting a rework (well, I think they all are) and although they didn't go as far as arse scratching, there was mention of them being more 'portly'... Yay!
That would be amazing. They don't have to have the stubby legs either but something a bit more relaxed in the midsection would be great.
I can tell they really moved away from the goofier side of things but some realistic versions of those more silly EQ type models would be nice to see.
I'm kind of torn on character customization. I know I don't like it when most characters of many different races all look like they're related.
I'm looking at the stats right now. I'm not sure exactly how much of an impact your stats has so this might be a moot point. I notice the warrior selected has put points in Str Stam and Con. Which is a good idea and a good start because that's a good distribution for what a warrior needs. But then take a paladin for example as the off-tank you would also want him/her to have Str Stam Con but as a paladin you'll also want to add Wis and Cha as well. So paladins will be slightly behind the curve.
And before anyone says it, yes I know it's still early and this is no where near finished. Just an observation and my thoughts.
DracoKalen said:I'm looking at the stats right now. I'm not sure exactly how much of an impact your stats has so this might be a moot point. I notice the warrior selected has put points in Str Stam and Con. Which is a good idea and a good start because that's a good distribution for what a warrior needs. But then take a paladin for example as the off-tank you would also want him/her to have Str Stam Con but as a paladin you'll also want to add Wis and Cha as well. So paladins will be slightly behind the curve.
From the limited window into classes we have on the class pages we can see Warriors having use of STR/STA/DEX/CHA when it comes to abilities, while Paladin need STR/CON/WIS/CHA and Dire Lord lists only CON. Expanding from that to screenshots of a few abilities from the tanks it would seem most stats will be put to use for many different abilities, at least DL show STR/STA(Max HP)/AGI/INT and Paladin show STR/STA(Max HP)/AGI/WIS.
(Paladin aren't off-tanks)
DracoKalen said:Well from the streams and demos I've heard them referred to as off-tanks multiple times.
Not from VR I'm sure. Many times now Joppa has stated all 3 tanks will be fully capable and comperable main tanks with some limited windows where each will shine *a little* more than the others, but group comp as a whole will play a bigger role in terms of which is "best" for any given group.
The only "off-tank" in the game right now is monk, which is far from a tank and only seems to have a very limited amount of time they can really "tank" something before they fold.
I really don't see any reason not to include an in-depth character customization with plenty of options to fine-tune your character to how you wish them to look (within reason). It's fairly bland to get into a game-world that's supposed to be immense where you find everyone just looks the same. I totally understand that there are those who don't care as much about customization, but that's not a reason to avoid providing a detailed character creator. If FFXIV can do it even on current gen 5 year old consoles, I'm sure Pantheon can do it without it negatively impacting performance. Just provide a couple pre-sets for those who don't care about character customization and everyone is happy.
Iksar said:DracoKalen said:I'm looking at the stats right now. I'm not sure exactly how much of an impact your stats has so this might be a moot point. I notice the warrior selected has put points in Str Stam and Con. Which is a good idea and a good start because that's a good distribution for what a warrior needs. But then take a paladin for example as the off-tank you would also want him/her to have Str Stam Con but as a paladin you'll also want to add Wis and Cha as well. So paladins will be slightly behind the curve.
From the limited window into classes we have on the class pages we can see Warriors having use of STR/STA/DEX/CHA when it comes to abilities, while Paladin need STR/CON/WIS/CHA and Dire Lord lists only CON. Expanding from that to screenshots of a few abilities from the tanks it would seem most stats will be put to use for many different abilities, at least DL show STR/STA(Max HP)/AGI/INT and Paladin show STR/STA(Max HP)/AGI/WIS.
Paladin show STR/STA(Max HP)/AGI/WIS.
Add Charisma to that as well as 2 of their abilities use that. And I'll have to go back and look, why would a warrior need Charisma?
Iksar said:Not from VR I'm sure. Many times now Joppa has stated all 3 tanks will be fully capable and comperable main tanks with some limited windows where each will shine *a little* more than the others, but group comp as a whole will play a bigger role in terms of which is "best" for any given group.
The only "off-tank" in the game right now is monk, which is far from a tank and only seems to have a very limited amount of time they can really "tank" something before they fold.
This is what I'm looking to avoid in games. Not everyone needs to be able to do everything. And not everyone needs to be the same as everything else. Although I've been a Paladin fan my whole life, I'm fine if they say "Ehh, well ya know what, in a pure MT aspsect, yea, a warrior is better."
