Iksar said:How is A more fun or in any way better than B? And how is it not PvP instead of PvE?
A) "I'm going to log in for a couple hours and stand in a room full of other players hoping maybe I can beat all of them to claim/kill a rare mob."
B) "I'm going to log in for a couple hours and find a camp to get some exp and maybe win a drop from the camp's rare mob."
Your point has validity, however it is probably not the best approach to just stand in a full room and wait.. maybe try a pick (which they discussed as an option) maybe go for another target / location, would be my 2 cents
Iksar said:How is A more fun or in any way better than B? And how is it not PvP instead of PvE?
A) "I'm going to log in for a couple hours and stand in a room full of other players hoping maybe I can beat all of them to claim/kill a rare mob."
B) "I'm going to log in for a couple hours and find a camp to get some exp and maybe win a drop from the camp's rare mob."
Well any sort of competition with another player could be considered PvP, but that's not what a player expects when they hear the term PvP, when players hear PvP in general they basically expect for it to be a shortened form of PvP combat. Otherwise as oneADseven basically said, almost any sort of competition could be considered PvP. PvE players aren't all against competition. We generally compete to see who can get the best gear, who can kill the next raid boss first, who can do the most DPS, ect. How is A more fun than B. For some it is, some people like competing for different reasons. For others it's not. Personally I'm unlikely to stand in a room full of others and race to kill the rare mob. I'm the kind of person who is more likely to find a place that has something else that I want and farm that instead. If I can't find something else to do that doesn't require me to stand still and do nothing or to do very little then the game failed to provide me enough variety of things to do or I'm too picky of a player and am not willing to do stuff that I should be doing or don't want to experience the full game.
I'll be a harvester, I'm hoping there will always be enough harvesting nodes of the type of harvester that I expect to be and that my crafting profession or other players will be able to use the stuff I harvest.
I'll be a crafter, I'll need to gather materials for my crafting profession, I'm hoping that crafting will be something useful to do for a good portion of my time.
I'll be a raider in a decent guild, I'm expecting other guildies to need or want my help and I'll have the time to help them out. I'm expecting my guild to go after certain bosses or through various dungeons so there will be time needed there.
I'm sure others are looking forward though to beating out others to a rare mob though!
Also in response to your black friday comments Iksar, every year my co-workers look forward to fighting others to race to getting that item that is heavily on sale. They look forward to that rush to that competition. They'll be sharing their experiences when we go to work either friday or monday, they'll be sharing it on facebook. I'll be doing my shopping on Amazon, I'll have no problems paying a bit more by not getting stuff at black friday prices. Others won't enjoy it but will do it regardless because they want the rewards, they'll likely be happy with what they get even if they didn't enjoy getting it. They'll find it was worth it.
Even in real life some of us love the competition and others hate it. We have to decide whether we hate it enough to do something about it or not. Unless the drop is really that great, I'll be doing other things that I find worth it. If the item the mob drops isn't no drop then I'll use the money I'll be making off of those other tasks to buy the items those people are farming. It might be quicker that way it might not be, I'll likely enjoy doing it my way more though.
vjek said:They held those picks open from server up to server down, for the entirety of the duration of the classic era. If you wanted a blackened iron medallion, you paid krono. (repeat for many other items, in respective era's)
For the love of god I hope VR does not adopt a market system like Krono that effectively sanctions RMT. RMT more than any other factor drives this type of behavior en masse. Sure without it you will still see socking, stealing, etc but when you put real monetary benefit on things there will always be a small group of people that will bleed out the system and move on.
Back more on topic though, VR just needs to make perma-camping and steamrolling over groups incredibly difficult and the vast majority of these concerns go away. Make deep locations in dungeons a big slog to even get to with back-spawns basically closing your group in through a dungeon. Don't have the throne in a throne room be a vending machine that pops out 'The King' for your group to just slurp up every X hours/day. Rotate spawns and make them difficult to get to. I will add one more layer onto that with the climate system. After so many hours of exposure (don't care if you are camped out or not) in a specific area will make you effectively useless in that area until you are away from it for so many hours/days. Will people still finds ways around all of this.. sure. Just don't make it easy.
Iksar said:How is A more fun or in any way better than B? And how is it not PvP instead of PvE?
A) "I'm going to log in for a couple hours and stand in a room full of other players hoping maybe I can beat all of them to claim/kill a rare mob."
B) "I'm going to log in for a couple hours and find a camp to get some exp and maybe win a drop from the camp's rare mob."
It's not more fun, and anybody that does that deserves to NOT have fun. In that situation all that is needed is a
/loser
Emote that would make my character laugh and form an L on his forehead as he left the room to go find some adventure.
Where have all these people with the entitlement issues came from all the sudden? A better way to solve it.. NO super BIS loot in game, nothing all the greedy ****'s are going to fight over to dress up there barbie dolls.... problem solved that easy.
Hokanu said:Your point has validity, however it is probably not the best approach to just stand in a full room and wait.. maybe try a pick (which they discussed as an option) maybe go for another target / location, would be my 2 cents
I'm having a hard time seeing an open world with rare spawns in which any items of quality (BiS or near BiS) are not heavily camped by the population. I just don't think they can honestly create that much content or have enough alternate but equal drops across the world in which things like an FBSS from EQ wouldn't be completely locked down at all times.
If you go and read threads about raid loot and RNG on the forums you see tons of people talking about crafting or loot tokens or loot tables only dropping things for classes in the raid as alternatives with stories about how it is shitty to raid for months (over half a year in one case) and not see a particular drop they were after. Now apply that to wild west contesting of non-raid rare mobs with hours long spawns and rare drops within their loot table. In EQ with camps you might spend hours, sometimes days, far less often weeks, and very rarely months casually trying to camp a named and win the coveted drop. In the proposed wild west no camps anything goes? I imagine for many players it will take on average far far longer and be far more boring in the process. You might end up going days/weeks/months without even getting a single kill on said named despite putting in tons of time and effort.
If raid mobs end up with lockout timers and fast-ish respawns then perhaps the same should be applied to named/rare mobs.
From an RNG thread:
oneADseven said:...
RNG definitely provides a rush ... and it can go both ways. Sometimes you get super lucky, sometimes you get burned. At the end of the day though, people appreciate recognition for their hard work. I don't care for things like participation trophies or anything like that ... but I don't see an issue with allowing people to set an achievable goal where dedication trumps luck or chance.
...
Does this philosophy somehow not apply here?
If it ends up being that rare mob x is the only way to get x item and it spawns in a certain location that everyone dogpiles then it's going to suck. If instead they make it so that rare mob x (or rare mobs x/y/z/any named in the zone) is just the most reliable way to get x item, but it has a much much smaller chance to drop from any mobs in the zone or groups can somewhat reliably (with the right number of kills/area drops/whatever) force spawn their own named every now and again, then I can see it working out much better and I'd have far less of a problem. Then there is always shorter lockouts than raids or rare mobs having no set spawn location and spawning anywhere in their given zone.
OneForAll said: People in this thread are exagerating the extent of camp stealing and griefing that goes on. It's as if a few people here had some really bad experiences on recent TLPs and want to give off the impression that it is rampant and you can expect everytime you log on to be a constant battle against griefers to get something done. That's just not how it is. And please stop using Phinny or Agnarr as examples. That EQ has Kronos and new expansions every few months which completely warps the games dynamics and encourages blitzkrieg item farming for RMT while items remain relevant. This creates an extremely negative and competitive environment and those servers should not be used as examples of EQ .
This is true and I as a Wizard I can speak first hand on the Phinney camp. It was just the opposite of what people are concerned about. On Innorruk I was one of the first few to get the epic of where I needed Phinney. Bards, Mages, and Enchanters at least we're also needing Phinney for there epics. As we MET others that were camping him we we pulled shifts, we made name and class list of each other. When Phinney spawned the tells would start going out from whoever was at the camp to all those that were on his list of each class. I would send them if I was there when he spawned, I would receive them if someone else found him. A mage found him for me, as a teleporter he had me port around and pick up the bard, a tank, a healer.... people I had never met before.. we all came in together as a force and joined up with the mage (and others) and took him out... the mage had first option (his item didn't drop)... the class from the list had secound (my piece did)
The Goal was to have at least one of each class that needed him there before we attacked so none of the pieces went to waste.
I was on the list so I was called into 2 more Phinney raids where already having my item I would pass to any other wizard, and do my best to make sure a Wizard that needed it was there.
Many of you are blowing it all out of proportion, for whatever reason I have no idea. Camps like Phinney were blessings, they brought many people together
@Zorkon -- That's much closer to the vast majority of experiences I had as well. Many people pulling together for mutual benefit, and allies and long-time friendships being formed.
Sure, I have some stories of asshats too. (I still remember the name of the monk that trained me more than once on the Shin Lord while camping Ghoulbane with my paladin.) But the vast majority of the experiences were positive rather than negative. And positive in a way that I deeply remember, not just passing events that are forgotten over time.
It's hard to design for those type of experiences, and back in EQ it was largley by accident that it was so. But designers can learn from it, and reach to duplicate it.
Iksar said:Hokanu said:Your point has validity, however it is probably not the best approach to just stand in a full room and wait.. maybe try a pick (which they discussed as an option) maybe go for another target / location, would be my 2 cents
I'm having a hard time seeing an open world with rare spawns in which any items of quality (BiS or near BiS) are not heavily camped by the population. I just don't think they can honestly create that much content or have enough alternate but equal drops across the world in which things like an FBSS from EQ wouldn't be completely locked down at all times.
I'm thinking that is the life of how BiS equip should be.. When someone first manages to luck out and get it I want to see only 1 flaming 2hander and everyone to be like.. holy crap did you see that sword when it goes by in someones hand... then you dont see anyone with it for AGES.. that guys gets his godly status for his efforts and no one can equal his epic swordness for AGES! You should have to sweat your butt off to get that sorta weapon.. as per those people who lock down a massively difficult to get weapon.. man their quality of life must just suck, everyone else if off having fun and they are doing that... haha power to them and their wasted hours I say!
Look, i completely understand i am not of the hardcore variety of player. maybe in the hardcore world you get griefed constantly, i'd say hang up your hardcore gloves for this game if you dont like the hectic competition, take an opportunity to go for a big target when it is free and otherwise just enjoy the game.
Iksar said:Hokanu said:Your point has validity, however it is probably not the best approach to just stand in a full room and wait.. maybe try a pick (which they discussed as an option) maybe go for another target / location, would be my 2 cents
I'm having a hard time seeing an open world with rare spawns in which any items of quality (BiS or near BiS) are not heavily camped by the population. I just don't think they can honestly create that much content or have enough alternate but equal drops across the world in which things like an FBSS from EQ wouldn't be completely locked down at all times.
If you go and read threads about raid loot and RNG on the forums you see tons of people talking about crafting or loot tokens or loot tables only dropping things for classes in the raid as alternatives with stories about how it is shitty to raid for months (over half a year in one case) and not see a particular drop they were after. Now apply that to wild west contesting of non-raid rare mobs with hours long spawns and rare drops within their loot table. In EQ with camps you might spend hours, sometimes days, far less often weeks, and very rarely months casually trying to camp a named and win the coveted drop. In the proposed wild west no camps anything goes? I imagine for many players it will take on average far far longer and be far more boring in the process. You might end up going days/weeks/months without even getting a single kill on said named despite putting in tons of time and effort.
If raid mobs end up with lockout timers and fast-ish respawns then perhaps the same should be applied to named/rare mobs.
From an RNG thread:
oneADseven said:...
RNG definitely provides a rush ... and it can go both ways. Sometimes you get super lucky, sometimes you get burned. At the end of the day though, people appreciate recognition for their hard work. I don't care for things like participation trophies or anything like that ... but I don't see an issue with allowing people to set an achievable goal where dedication trumps luck or chance.
...
Does this philosophy somehow not apply here?
If it ends up being that rare mob x is the only way to get x item and it spawns in a certain location that everyone dogpiles then it's going to suck. If instead they make it so that rare mob x (or rare mobs x/y/z/any named in the zone) is just the most reliable way to get x item, but it has a much much smaller chance to drop from any mobs in the zone or groups can somewhat reliably (with the right number of kills/area drops/whatever) force spawn their own named every now and again, then I can see it working out much better and I'd have far less of a problem. Then there is always shorter lockouts than raids or rare mobs having no set spawn location and spawning anywhere in their given zone.
I think dedication would trump luck/chance if the mobs themselves were really rare, but their drops were consistent. I much prefer that over seeing a name spawn very consistently but having an extremely low drop-rate of it's most prized item. Otherwise, you'll see situations where someone camps a mob and kills it 20 times in a row without ever getting the coveted drop ... then for kill 21, another player manages to take it down and gets it on their first try.
The quote you referenced from me was talking about loot tokens or whatever. I wouldn't mind if they were used sparingly but I would definitely want it to be the exception, not the rule. If "named/rare mobs" respawn quickly as ghosts or whatever, that would defeat the purpose of them being rare. There needs to be exclusivity. This isn't a single player RPG where everybody gets what they want. It's a real world where people try to make a name for themselves by doing extraordinary things.
The world is supposed to feel alive, and have purpose. The creatures living there should be meaningful. If I set off for an adventure to the bottom of a dungeon, it would be massively disappointing if I knew for sure that every single "rare mob" was going to be available for me, every single time. That would be so bad, so trashy, so gimp, so epicly garbage that it would feel exactly like an instance. "Rare mobs" should be treated as a finite resource or their value goes down the toilet.
As far as the really good drops being heavily camped ... that's kind of the point. The demand for these items would be higher than normal so it makes a lot of sense that there would be more people camping them. If there isn't competition for resources then that would be a good sign that those resources aren't really worth a damn in the first place. I want to play a game that creates windows of opportunity ... limited situations in the game that add an extra sense of urgency.
Feyshtey said:@Zorkon -- That's much closer to the vast majority of experiences I had as well. Many people pulling together for mutual benefit, and allies and long-time friendships being formed.
Sure, I have some stories of asshats too. (I still remember the name of the monk that trained me more than once on the Shin Lord while camping Ghoulbane with my paladin.) But the vast majority of the experiences were positive rather than negative. And positive in a way that I deeply remember, not just passing events that are forgotten over time.
It's hard to design for those type of experiences, and back in EQ it was largley by accident that it was so. But designers can learn from it, and reach to duplicate it.
agreed, there were some times, the occasional butthead came into the picture, and there will be again.. we just gotta take the good with the bad.
If a person concentrates on the bad, then that's what they'll see. If they concentrate on the Good.. same effect.
I'm pretty sure there are tools available today that weren't available back in the day to help alleviate the most heinous examples people are bringing up. Even algorithms can be implemented. If there happens to be that one thing that is the only thing that matters in the game there are other measures that can be implemented on the server-side to make alleviating those things much easier. It appears that the only thing that hasn't changed is the capacity for people to grief and abuse the system. Those people/groups/guilds can be singled out and handled in an almost automatic fashion. If they feel they were wrongly convicted then they can appeal.
No one boasts on these boards that they are the type of heinous player that everyone is harping about. A play nice policy can be enforced with a lot better mechanisms than existed 15 years ago. Keep it open world content and if something really ugly develops in the game despite all the Tenents and support that Pantheon has going for it at this juncture use a real heavy hammer and deal with the fallout. Seems like no matter what you have to deal with the fallout of something. I'd rather see something horrible and ugly develop after release that is dealt with perhaps in an overly enthusiastic manner than simply not allowing the game to be released with the Tenents and anticipation already built up. But even better, I'd rather not even see something horrible and ugly develop as the examples in this thread have been illustrating. And, frankly, why should they?
muscoby said:I'd rather see something horrible and ugly develop after release that is dealt with perhaps in an overly enthusiastic manner than simply not allowing the game to be released with the Tenents and anticipation already built up. But even better, I'd rather not even see something horrible and ugly develop as the examples in this thread have been illustrating. And, frankly, why should they?
Me to!
Btw, Great to see this thread is passionate and yet super respectful, hopefully a representation of the majority of the players who will be involved when it comes to an in game, played out version of this very topic! There will be some others i am sure but, we cant change everything for the very few. Hopefully it will show the folks worried about the concept that there is hope!
That came out in a very clunky way but you know what i mean (i hope) haha
Spawn Timer lockouts was one of the worst concepts ever designed. This is why, and what could have made it better, let me explain.
1. A. Guild X, camps alts at the spawn to locate the spawn given the exact time they killed it last. Forcing everyone else to not get a chance.
1. B. Guild X farms the spawn because they know the exact date, and time when it spawns next. This in itself is an exploit within the game and wasnt changed for a very long time.
Solution?
Guild X camps and wins their first battle, a possible 1 day timer to 30 day timer. Randomly spawning at any time 24hr, but never on the same time it was last killed. It also can have random points in the zone it can spawn at, never the same pathing, to avoid exploiting. If someone with tracking or abilities needs to camp out 24hr + 1-30 days so be it, we can not avoid that solution. Yet we can enforce AFK situations, and parsing of information to any client that XX spawned in the zone, being passed VIA Voice, TXT or tracking to the client. Avoid all forms of ways to annouce to the client that XX rare mob boss has spawned. Tracking maybe also changed so that anything of that nature is never on tracking.
Easy change in the coding.
Just saying it can avoid all kinds of exploiting farming this time around. Guilds would on purpose C block everyone, where and when they can to farm all kinds of things for their own guild or for pure profit.
Starting early is a great idea, and avoid LAGGING exploits of all kinds. If that is even possible. Where X guild rushes the zone to Lag out the Z guild from the kill, wipes them and then rushes in to steal the kill.
We had so many bad things happening back then.
Zorkon said:Feyshtey said:@Zorkon -- That's much closer to the vast majority of experiences I had as well. Many people pulling together for mutual benefit, and allies and long-time friendships being formed.
Sure, I have some stories of asshats too. (I still remember the name of the monk that trained me more than once on the Shin Lord while camping Ghoulbane with my paladin.) But the vast majority of the experiences were positive rather than negative. And positive in a way that I deeply remember, not just passing events that are forgotten over time.
It's hard to design for those type of experiences, and back in EQ it was largley by accident that it was so. But designers can learn from it, and reach to duplicate it.
agreed, there were some times, the occasional butthead came into the picture, and there will be again.. we just gotta take the good with the bad.
If a person concentrates on the bad, then that's what they'll see. If they concentrate on the Good.. same effect.
While I am sure that there are many mechanics and game design points that can be implemented after years of experience with MMOs to help lessen the impact of "buttheads", nothing will completely remove them from games. But I completely agree that the vast majority of players in a game like this are social and the fun out weighes the bad.
Working to hard to mechanically prevent the bad, often washes the baby out with the bath water.
OneForAll said: People in this thread are exagerating the extent of camp stealing and griefing that goes on. It's as if a few people here had some really bad experiences on recent TLPs and want to give off the impression that it is rampant and you can expect everytime you log on to be a constant battle against griefers to get something done. That's just not how it is. And please stop using Phinny or Agnarr as examples. That EQ has Kronos and new expansions every few months which completely warps the games dynamics and encourages blitzkrieg item farming for RMT while items remain relevant. This creates an extremely negative and competitive environment and those servers should not be used as examples of EQ .
No kidding!
I think back through my years in EQ1 and can count on 1 hand the number of times I directly experienced a kill steal, a camp steal or a raid steal. It truly just did not happen that often. No, I wasn't on the bleeding edge of content, but where I and my guild were on content we had plenty of competition. Lanys didn't run a calendar system, and public shaming wasn't really done either. If you wanted something, you made sure you were there first. Plain and simple.
Cooperation for quest items, specifically epics, but for many other quest items as well, was very commonplace.
And as time progressed and more and more content was created, direct competition lessened as the population spread out. My guild raided 5 days a week and we never lacked for content. Something was always up somewhere for us to enjoy.
Vandraad said:OneForAll said: People in this thread are exagerating the extent of camp stealing and griefing that goes on. It's as if a few people here had some really bad experiences on recent TLPs and want to give off the impression that it is rampant and you can expect everytime you log on to be a constant battle against griefers to get something done. That's just not how it is. And please stop using Phinny or Agnarr as examples. That EQ has Kronos and new expansions every few months which completely warps the games dynamics and encourages blitzkrieg item farming for RMT while items remain relevant. This creates an extremely negative and competitive environment and those servers should not be used as examples of EQ .No kidding!
I think back through my years in EQ1 and can count on 1 hand the number of times I directly experienced a kill steal, a camp steal or a raid steal. It truly just did not happen that often. No, I wasn't on the bleeding edge of content, but where I and my guild were on content we had plenty of competition. Lanys didn't run a calendar system, and public shaming wasn't really done either. If you wanted something, you made sure you were there first. Plain and simple.
Cooperation for quest items, specifically epics, but for many other quest items as well, was very commonplace.
And as time progressed and more and more content was created, direct competition lessened as the population spread out. My guild raided 5 days a week and we never lacked for content. Something was always up somewhere for us to enjoy.
1998- until the next expansion and then onwards until the very end of POP.
We had so many servers doing the exact same things to each other. It was a race to the top, and the C blocking was "Coined" the lagging of zones, and the constant camping of various key parts. We also had issues of farming boss mobs on a cycle.
Where where you guys in EQ1?? normal servers had this issue. It isnt over "exagerating the extent of camp stealing and griefing that goes on" it was a fact back then on first releases.
Either neither of you guys where in a top end raiding guild, or you both came to EQ very late. I played from 98 onwards up until now. Off and on for a couple of times, but i played the majority of the games life cycle. The only thing that really changed was the reduction of players.
But this is a different game, and i expect many things will be totally different then that old EQ game we once loved.
Crazzie said:Vandraad said:OneForAll said: People in this thread are exagerating the extent of camp stealing and griefing that goes on. It's as if a few people here had some really bad experiences on recent TLPs and want to give off the impression that it is rampant and you can expect everytime you log on to be a constant battle against griefers to get something done. That's just not how it is. And please stop using Phinny or Agnarr as examples. That EQ has Kronos and new expansions every few months which completely warps the games dynamics and encourages blitzkrieg item farming for RMT while items remain relevant. This creates an extremely negative and competitive environment and those servers should not be used as examples of EQ .No kidding!
I think back through my years in EQ1 and can count on 1 hand the number of times I directly experienced a kill steal, a camp steal or a raid steal. It truly just did not happen that often. No, I wasn't on the bleeding edge of content, but where I and my guild were on content we had plenty of competition. Lanys didn't run a calendar system, and public shaming wasn't really done either. If you wanted something, you made sure you were there first. Plain and simple.
Cooperation for quest items, specifically epics, but for many other quest items as well, was very commonplace.
And as time progressed and more and more content was created, direct competition lessened as the population spread out. My guild raided 5 days a week and we never lacked for content. Something was always up somewhere for us to enjoy.
1998- until the next expansion and then onwards until the very end of POP.
We had so many servers doing the exact same things to each other. It was a race to the top, and the C blocking was "Coined" the lagging of zones, and the constant camping of various key parts. We also had issues of farming boss mobs on a cycle.
Where where you guys in EQ1?? normal servers had this issue. It isnt over "exagerating the extent of camp stealing and griefing that goes on" it was a fact back then on first releases.
Either neither of you guys where in a top end raiding guild, or you both came to EQ very late. I played from 98 onwards up until now. Off and on for a couple of times, but i played the majority of the games life cycle. The only thing that really changed was the reduction of players.
But this is a different game, and i expect many things will be totally different then that old EQ game we once loved.
But obviously it wasnt game breaking stuff, just some top end hardcore competition right? I mean by your own reference it is a game you loved and continued playing.
Never experienced it in any other way than Vand, One, Zork and others have described (positivly) but by my own admission i am not hardcore.
If the core of this problem is an issue for hardocre players only/mostly, well preferably they dont change the game to suit a hardcore crowd only.
Crazzie said:Vandraad said:OneForAll said: People in this thread are exagerating the extent of camp stealing and griefing that goes on. It's as if a few people here had some really bad experiences on recent TLPs and want to give off the impression that it is rampant and you can expect everytime you log on to be a constant battle against griefers to get something done. That's just not how it is. And please stop using Phinny or Agnarr as examples. That EQ has Kronos and new expansions every few months which completely warps the games dynamics and encourages blitzkrieg item farming for RMT while items remain relevant. This creates an extremely negative and competitive environment and those servers should not be used as examples of EQ .No kidding!
I think back through my years in EQ1 and can count on 1 hand the number of times I directly experienced a kill steal, a camp steal or a raid steal. It truly just did not happen that often. No, I wasn't on the bleeding edge of content, but where I and my guild were on content we had plenty of competition. Lanys didn't run a calendar system, and public shaming wasn't really done either. If you wanted something, you made sure you were there first. Plain and simple.
Cooperation for quest items, specifically epics, but for many other quest items as well, was very commonplace.
And as time progressed and more and more content was created, direct competition lessened as the population spread out. My guild raided 5 days a week and we never lacked for content. Something was always up somewhere for us to enjoy.
1998- until the next expansion and then onwards until the very end of POP.
We had so many servers doing the exact same things to each other. It was a race to the top, and the C blocking was "Coined" the lagging of zones, and the constant camping of various key parts. We also had issues of farming boss mobs on a cycle.
Where where you guys in EQ1?? normal servers had this issue. It isnt over "exagerating the extent of camp stealing and griefing that goes on" it was a fact back then on first releases.
Either neither of you guys where in a top end raiding guild, or you both came to EQ very late. I played from 98 onwards up until now. Off and on for a couple of times, but i played the majority of the games life cycle. The only thing that really changed was the reduction of players.
But this is a different game, and i expect many things will be totally different then that old EQ game we once loved.
OR, could it be you are not remembering quite right? As its unlikely you played since 98 since EQ1 was launched March of 99. Zorkon was created August 99.
And as for a "top end raiding guild" no i led my own guild that allied with other guilds to still do top end content. And I'm sorry you had a bad experience. Maybe you should stay away from "Top end raiding Guilds" based on Brads infi thats only about 15% of the population.... it would seem thats where the problem lies.
and possibly it is a big fish v small fish thing... the sharks are going to eat everything up including us little puffer fish that try to look big and scary but aren't, so swim with caution! But if you wait till they are not looking you might be able to grab a meal from the biggest prizes in the ocean! (or just be a Remora :p but there is no glory in that haha)
I hope there is no offence in my above statement, just a fun analogy, guess it could be conceived as rude, hopefully not!
Well its a bit too early to speculate how questing and and mob/boss questing will work. Though i am sure there not going to shot themselves in the foot, if quest boss A is needed for like 10 - 20 players at the same time.
We just have to play the game. Open world pve is different, you usually read thats its a pvp system. Though there view on instances is not set in stone. I suppose we will find out how all these intricacies play out.
I played from 3 months after release, to about 3 months after release of OOM, all on Prexus. I wouldn't claim that I was in a top raiding guild, but we were allied with one of the top 3, and grouped and raided with them regularly.
I certainly experienced a craptastic event here and there. I won't claim that I didnt. But the vast majority of my experiences in EQ were positive and shared with great people. Often meeting great people for the first time. It's why it's the only game that I ever played for as long, or have such fond memories of.
Addressing the turn in the conversation:
1) Top end guilds compete with top end guilds for content... this is a small segment of the population 10-15% I think is a fair estimate.
2) Second tier guilds are impacted by the top guilds becuase top guilds are monopolizing content that those second tier guilds are good enough to try and perhaps succeed. That's maybe another 10 - 15% of the population.
3) The rest of the server likely isn't ready to do the content being competed over... and the content they are capable of doing likely isn't being locked out.
The problem really comes in if the game grows in a mostly vertical manner when new content comes out. If it does that, then content that people wanted to do but couldn't do becomes obsolete and - while it SHOULD still be content they would do, sadly, guilds will pass it by and never do it because there is new bright, shiny stuff for them to do.
If the game grows more horizontally - providing new top end content along with content that eases the path into what was the old top end content... then those second tier guilds will work their way through it while competing for the scraps left behind by the top tier guilds - while everyone else with an interest in content (third tier and beyond) will work into that old content only blocked by the occurence of another guild being there - but with other unblocked stuff to go do when that happens.
Wandidar said:Addressing the turn in the conversation:
1) Top end guilds compete with top end guilds for content... this is a small segment of the population 10-15% I think is a fair estimate.
2) Second tier guilds are impacted by the top guilds becuase top guilds are monopolizing content that those second tier guilds are good enough to try and perhaps succeed. That's maybe another 10 - 15% of the population.
3) The rest of the server likely isn't ready to do the content being competed over... and the content they are capable of doing likely isn't being locked out.
The problem really comes in if the game grows in a mostly vertical manner when new content comes out. If it does that, then content that people wanted to do but couldn't do becomes obsolete and - while it SHOULD still be content they would do, sadly, guilds will pass it by and never do it because there is new bright, shiny stuff for them to do.
If the game grows more horizontally - providing new top end content along with content that eases the path into what was the old top end content... then those second tier guilds will work their way through it while competing for the scraps left behind by the top tier guilds - while everyone else with an interest in content (third tier and beyond) will work into that old content only blocked by the occurence of another guild being there - but with other unblocked stuff to go do when that happens.