Beefcake said:philo said:If the game was going to be as niche as was originally advertised a few years back then it might have been possible. At this point the playerbase is going to be so large on release that thinking VR will be able to police all the minor issues, whether there are volunteer guides or not, is laughable.
Or, people can just learn to let the minor things go. No amount of policing will stop everything. People can just use /ignore or other simple methods to handle most things. A few minor issues will get by. Oh, well. The game goes on. Save the support staff for big things and handle the little things yourself. Or, just ignore them and move on.
Exactly what they intend as far as we all know at this point. That was more than sufficient 5-10 years ago. Is it still? I am skeptical considering communities these days. Will the lack of policing drive some players away who might have been contributing members of the community? It is inevitable given the circumstances. It happens even in games with more funding. It is a grey area of when it becomes "to much".
That's a great point. For me personally, I don't really expect a whole lot from an official GM presence. If someone's account gets hacked, their items go missing, they lose spells, etc ... I would absolutely expect those to get resolved. I remember in EQ2 it could take 8+ hours to have a GM come and loot a chest that that got stuck in a wall. It was really annoying because we had to keep someone inside the instance to prevent the chest from disappearing. I agree that response time is very important but everything should have a priority. Guides could be that human element that helps sort through the jungle of tickets and get serious issues escalated much quicker. Smaller issues might not even necessarily deserve a custom response, some of it could be automated to some degree. For example if someone reports someone for harassment, a simple message that acknowledges the report and says the matter will be investigated could be satisfactory. There just needs to be a good system in place.
Locks, punishments, and rules help keep honest people honest. Bad people will always do bad things, no matter what.
It is not VR's job to create a perfect "safe-place" where no one's feelings will get hurt.
A small presence, mostly on the big things to make examples of bad actors, will keep most people in line. No different than IRL. You cannot expect VR to dedicate an employee to every micro-transgression out there.
In the end, some people's feelings will get hurt and leave the game. No matter what VR does.
But, let's give them a chance before we string them up and flay them as failures in community policing.
philo said: I'm still skeptical hah...and Mohawks are lame.
I wouldn't be worried....it'd be different if we were afforded the same conviences that modern mmo's grant us such as instances, instant travel, quick leveling ect., but as it stands now none of those are in pantheon. People may run around shouting obscenities the first few levels but when the game starts forcing you to group, those players will be remembered and either forced to change their act, re-roll, or quit the game. If such players decide to band together as a guild, fine makes it easier to pin point the problem players when they show up in a group and the leader noticies the particularily nefarious guild tag. Intentional griefing of lower level players may tarnish your name, imagine guild leaders policing their own members because that particular member is still a representation of that guild. With no really ability to remain annoumynous I think at least leveling wise we won't have issues.
Now when it comes to endgame, thats a completely different bad of worms, I fully expect to compete for bosses and may the quickest person who tags the mob wins. I very much hope you can't kill steal(if I'm understanding the mechanic right it's when outside parties attack a mob claimed by another group and out dps the group with the claim)because that would reduce bosses to zerg fest. But competing for claim, I'm all for so long as there are other options for endgame such as forced pops and timed zones.
Durp said:If loots and/or chests get stuck in walls/trees etc. the guild/group leader should be able to do a one time /moveloot (or something like it) to drop the loot at their feet. (very short distance)
Or they simply don't get that loot so they need to think about it before they kill a mob in a wall.
Zorkon said:Durp said:If loots and/or chests get stuck in walls/trees etc. the guild/group leader should be able to do a one time /moveloot (or something like it) to drop the loot at their feet. (very short distance)
Or they simply don't get that loot so they need to think about it before they kill a mob in a wall.
Yes, because terrain bugs never happen.
Zorkon said:Of course there going to happen, just need to get get over it instead of cry about it.
LOL. Sorry man but I disagree with you big time. I remember killing Chel'Drak in EQ2 ... the mob was MASSIVE inside of a tiny little dungeon. It's hit-box was huge. In order to kill it, you had to get your positioning perfect, and unfortunately, that positioning often resulted in a chest in the wall. The mob had a huge knockback attack so there was potential the mob's position would change throughout the fight. This mob also had a 1 week lockout. You don't tell an entire raid to "get over" losing their chest from a premier (and extremely challenging) target when the game is designed in such a way that these "chests in walls" bugs occur, even if it's semi frequent or rare. I'm fine with risk vs reward ... losing chests in a wall due to bad design should never be a risk I have to deal with. The developers of that encounter should have been the ones crying, in shame, for never fixing a known bug and wasting so many people's time.
Zorkon said:Of course there going to happen, just need to get get over it instead of cry about it.
There's a leap between learning to deal with the fact that some people are asshats and sometimes it's easier to just move on then argue with them, and bugs that prevent killing or looting NPCs. Obviously we have to be able to accept a very rare bug that causes us issues every once in a while. But frankly bugs in early EQ were the greatest potential cause of me quitting the game. I never did, but holy hell I came close a few times. In today's market players just won't put up with it.
Sometimes bugs are beneficial.
Item recharge anyone? Feels like an exploit, yet its common to see it used on P99. Would rather see a mechanic built in to recharge items.
Bad pathing - makes it easier to solo/kite some mobs in some areas
But bugs are just a fact of life in MMOs, sure they should be fixed but you will never find them all.
From a reputtation point of view however:
Overall, assuming we have a good community to begin with, I'm hoping for a similar experience as original EQ, where the community was really pretty good for the most part. I didn't run into a ton of people being asshats until years after release. It did seem to get worse over time.
I'm not much for conflict, so my usual response was just to move on and be productive rather than dwell on it and just be angry over whatever transgression was perceived.
I do recall at least one instance, where somone that made it on my do not group list early in the game asked for help with corpse recovery and rez over a year later. I simply had to inform them that they had greifed me and my guild in the past;described when and how they made it on our list, and said sorry I must have taken you of ignore somehow, have a nice day :P
Yes I actually kept a list, with notes and refered to it often. Hope I won't need one in PROTF.
That said, it was really only useful a few times.
A cool feature might be an in game personal list, where you can tag players as good/bad/some category, with notes that you could highlight name tags in a different color based on the category they fall into. Add commands like /shownotes so you can popup a notes window based on the player in your target. Then you as the player can track/decide what to do in any given situation.
Be nice to identify friends in a large crowd more easily and could also be used to easily identify those you've had trouble with in the past.
Just a thought.
-Az
Liav said:Zorkon said:Of course there going to happen, just need to get get over it instead of cry about it.
If you're going to say something this ridiculous, you could at least provide your reasoning.
There is no crying of any sorts Zorkon, people explain what they remember of open worlds. Open conversation is a good thing, opens dialoges. It also matters to the Devs how we feel. It might be monitored down the road, and fixed. Remember Brad is not stupid he fixed many of these things in the beginning. He also had an amazing team to help squash out the small problems at the start. Gm porting in right away, account issues, minor bugs, etc... We the players will be watching for many of these open world issues in the start, you can count on that. Hopefully we have an open Dialog with the Devs early on, to enhance the game after beta.
But i do agree with Liav, explain next time.
Nuggie said:@Rysdude - If you want to raid in open world environments you're going to have to add "How to mobilize your crew faster than the other crew" to your challenge sheet for said encounter. It adds a whole new level to PvE raids.
I can understand that. Doesnt really appeal though.
@Rysdude -- Your stance is completely reasonable, and you honestly don't have anything to worry about. Competition does not automatically imply drama, even for the most scant of resources. This is where the human element comes in, the thing we all miss so very much. If you associate yourself with people who grief/taunt others then yes, you will probably see your fair share of drama. If you are on the other side of the coin (being the one griefed/taunted) then just do your part and share your experience with others. If their actions warrant a /report, then file it. If they are just being drama queens ... share your story with others. Help relay that image out there because I truly like to think in this day and age that nobody wants to be known as a drama queen in a game that is looking to attract oldschool gamers. Some might not care and that's okay ... do what you can to avoid them. I think they will be the exception, not the rule.
It's also very important to keep things in perspective. There would be nothing stopping you from logging in and just grouping with your friends to help people with a quest, adventure to a new area, or start an alt. You would be able to spend some time crafting, working the trade market, etc. Competition will naturally exist in some of these environments and that's perfectly okay. Terminus will be a living breathing world where being at the right place, at the right time, could/should be meaningful. There could be rare event triggers that you'll want to try and take advantage of but that isn't the end all be all of the game. I think there will be plenty of things to do ... but if your only goal is to log in and kill rare monsters, you should think about what that means. "Rare" implies limitation. This isn't a single player RPG where you can log in and play in a bubble where everything is universally available at all times. Embrace the fact that we'll have a world to interact with, rather than just a game to log into.
Grimix said:Now when it comes to endgame, thats a completely different bad of worms, I fully expect to compete for bosses and may the quickest person who tags the mob wins. I very much hope you can't kill steal(if I'm understanding the mechanic right it's when outside parties attack a mob claimed by another group and out dps the group with the claim)because that would reduce bosses to zerg fest. But competing for claim, I'm all for so long as there are other options for endgame such as forced pops and timed zones.
The play nice policy in eq1 was tested on many rare spawns when people would tag and kite the mob while the rest of their team formed up, even though there was a raid force there that was about to engage. When I got my Lodi Shell Shield on my driud a ranger had been kiting the mob for 10 minutes before we were even in zone. On another occasion I watched the DPS group of Fire of Heaven (team assbeat) KS an entire raid force for the same mob. Fun times.
It has been mentioned a couple of times... but if you have never played a game with open world contested content, you cant understand the rush of forming up to kill something. That gets the blood pumping almost as much as the kill itself.
Durp said:If loots and/or chests get stuck in walls/trees etc. the guild/group leader should be able to do a one time /moveloot (or something like it) to drop the loot at their feet. (very short distance)
Yeah man thats a cool idea. I been on raids where we had to target thru someone else because ti was stuck in a wall and if that person lost the target loot been gone or have to put in a CS ticket.
Zeem said:Durp said:If loots and/or chests get stuck in walls/trees etc. the guild/group leader should be able to do a one time /moveloot (or something like it) to drop the loot at their feet. (very short distance)
Yeah man thats a cool idea. I been on raids where we had to target thru someone else because ti was stuck in a wall and if that person lost the target loot been gone or have to put in a CS ticket.
Yes to the raid leaders location. So if in the middle can summon the chest. Debug mode, then submitted to the devs after it is done.