I have joined a group where they said if item X drops then a particular person is getting it. They explained that the person had been camping it for an extended period of time and had never gotten it. I understood that and just decided it was worth spending time to help him out. Everyone else in the group was in his guild, and a week later the guild returned the favor to me by inviting me on a raid in the Hole so I could get something I needed.
As I look back on my EQ, EQ2 and Vanguard days, most of the people that I grouped with were fellow guild members. Of course, a lot of the time, people start out not being in a guild, but that is at lower levels were mistakes are easily more forgiven as we all learn.
Also, since there is a lot of emphasis on social play, people that are poor performers will start to find that it is very hard to find a group at upper levels as others remember past actions. I do hope that Pantheon will have some type of block function. I believe that they will, but just want to suggest that option if there are no plans at this time.
Rift, at least the later stages of when I played, had a "kick" option, though it never happened to me, I thought that it was a very poor option, especially when somebody was new to that level or dungeon.
Everybody learns at a different pace and there are plenty of dique's that will disrupt, cause drama or afk too often. Somewhere there is a balance and that threshold is different for everybody.
Normally I would say to rely on a voting system in more recent MMO's, but since Pantheon will be server locked, it also means that players much more easily develop a positive or negative reputation. As community opinion matter for your success in the game, you're incentivized to be a decent human being, as such, you're more likely to see group leaders taking decisions that benefits the group as a whole, and the decent thing to do.
If for whatever reason things don't work out, and the rest of the group disagree with the leader to the point where cooperation is no longer an option, it's as simple as leaving the group and creating your own with the remaining members.
Will ninja looting be a thing? Yes. Shady behaviour with camping nameds? Yes. General douchebaggery? Unfortunately yes.
But as long as your name is something that can be recongized within the community as either good or bad, a lot of these issues will self-regulate and be kept to a minimum.
Questaar that's good for you! It's pretty rare I reserve item before hand. Only if I feel extended need to do so, eighter extreme rare drop or mob spawns or it could be a very hard kill or just bad rng leading to me hunting that damn thing for months. I would not say, that it says anything about me as a person though..
As a player i invest a lot of time in a game, and I want to archive sertan golds. A random player have also got items reserved in my grp, he simply asked if no one needed that item before hand, and that he would be more that happy to get it incase it dropped. And you know what, he actually got that item, that run, and to this day we still play games together.
Other people dont rly care about the loot, they might have BiS items already so they want xp for thir AA advancement, they would be pleased to grp with me no matter the situation. Back then i had a pritty good rep. as a healer, my grps was always safe and the xp was above most other grps duo to the team work within the grp. My brother played a wizard and he did insane damage specially when we did area damage grps where we nuked and killed big pulls at once.
I would much rather handle my grps this way, if I need to. Again this is very rare. 99.9% of my grps are eighter FFA or Need before greed.
Giving the leader the ability to kick a player is a must have function IMO - Having managed groups in many many raids in my time makes that obvious. The devs have stated multiple times that we will largely be policing ourselves. A leader who is kicking members for nefarious reasons or being a jerk is going to have a hard time forming groups in future and his current group would likely reform without him, choosing a new leader.
Even in a group of players who know each other well and group together often it's sometimes necessary to kick a member. Who hasn't had a friend who had to run AFK emergently. "OMG! I think my dog is choking!! AFK! If not back in 10, kick me!" It does happen. Perhaps you have another friend there waiting for a spot and you can swap him in while waiting for the first guy to come back if he ends up AFK for awhile, etc.
Group vote kick is childish IMO and leads to drama mongering. Choose a leader who has common sense then give him/her the tools to do the job.
MINX
MINX said:Giving the leader the ability to kick a player is a must have function IMO - Having managed groups in many many raids in my time makes that obvious. The devs have stated multiple times that we will largely be policing ourselves. A leader who is kicking members for nefarious reasons or being a jerk is going to have a hard time forming groups in future and his current group would likely reform without him, choosing a new leader.
Even in a group of players who know each other well and group together often it's sometimes necessary to kick a member. Who hasn't had a friend who had to run AFK emergently. "OMG! I think my dog is choking!! AFK! If not back in 10, kick me!" It does happen. Perhaps you have another friend there waiting for a spot and you can swap him in while waiting for the first guy to come back if he ends up AFK for awhile, etc.
Group vote kick is childish IMO and leads to drama mongering. Choose a leader who has common sense then give him/her the tools to do the job.
MINX
So true, had a friend we grouped with regularly, he lived right behind a 7-11, so when he needed a soda, he would run over and get a 64oz thirstbuster, so he easily would be gone 10 minutes. He also had a tendancy to fall asleep at the keys (As most of us have from time to time :) ).
I have also been in many groups where someone had to leave and they would port out and go sit in town and forget to disband from the group.
There are many legitimate reasons for a group leader to need kick privledges, and it should be the leaders decision, not a group vote. A good leader may ask the group members their opinion, but ultimately, the person who formed the group should have the final say.
No to voting, but with a caveat. Instead of /tell to the group leader, I would-as I have done in many times in past MMOs-ask the group leader in group chat to HOLD ON FOR ONE MINUTE!! I would then bring to attention the one individual who was either a)Obviously AFK, b)Being detrimental to the group, or c) Was being a complete moron. The group then decided whether or not to kick this person. Most times it worked...sometimes we needed the ****** to stick around for awhile. So, no to voting someone out of the group. If you form a group, be the leader or not.
oneADseven said: As someone who always sets out to start my own groups, I think it's very important that I have the ability to remove players. There shouldn't be a voting mechanism required. If the leader of the group wants to kick someone, for whatever reason, it should be possible. If a group leader does this to ninja loot an item, they should be blackballed. Reputation is important ... allow people to earn their reputation, good or bad.
Absolutely this, and as others have stressed, communication first. :)
In EQ1 I often, as wizzy, took upon me the role of trash drop looting in my days. Then selling off the items and split with the group members.
That last part could be quite the hastle if players logged already or were somewhere else by then. So I would make a list and I tried to find them later on to give them their share.
Spltitting over long distances would not be such a realistic thing have a game mechanic doing it, ... then maybe at a bank you could drop stuff\money in other's character account
BamBam said: Tralyna when that ultra rare item drops, nice people can turn bad and greedy :)
Solution for your situation, if party breaks for whatever reason before loot drops, the loot pool disapears! Will suck in cases of lagging out or pure trolling, but will prevent unfair leader kicking for loot.
If I get a message about kicking a group member, unless it has been discussed in group chat, unless the group has tried to help the offending player...I will vote no every single time. Ask me to secretly vote to kick someone out of a group because you dont have the balls to confront the player is just a douche bag thing to do and I will have no part in it. Have the fortitude to confront the problem head on.
I'm with many others here. If your group leader can't resolve the issue they should kick the offender. If your group cant communicate and/or can't get the leader to ac, then the group leader is ineffective and you should just drop the group to find another. If you're kicking someone because they are undergeared or something and just can't be quite as effective as another, then have the guts to tell the person that (and make it obvious that you value stats more than people) or keep them.
Chaoticus said:Being able to kick a party member is ANTISOCIAL - do not allow a kick mechanic
Constantly being AFK, constantly and perhaps deliberately doing things that make success difficult or impossible, and ninja-looting are also ANITSOCIAL. You're suggesting that we ask people engaged in that behavior to pretty please not be an ass, and just suck on it if they refuse?
I mean, literally the only context a vote kick feature makes sense in is an instanced, matchmaking-based game. I don't even understand what purpose the mechanic could serve in a game like this.
It is actually pointless to include.
Wandidar said:Liav said:I mean, literally the only context a vote kick feature makes sense in is an instanced, matchmaking-based game. I don't even understand what purpose the mechanic could serve in a game like this.
It is actually pointless to include.
Agreed.
Dont get me wrong. I don't think a vote-based system is useful. But the group leader being able to kick a person is.
Sevens said:If I get a message about kicking a group member, unless it has been discussed in group chat, unless the group has tried to help the offending player...I will vote no every single time. Ask me to secretly vote to kick someone out of a group because you dont have the balls to confront the player is just a douche bag thing to do and I will have no part in it. Have the fortitude to confront the problem head on.
Getting behind this 100%. Though, asking a population of awkward MMORPG nerds to show back bone and engage in actual confrontation with another human being may be a bit of a stretch.
Leader group management tools, including kicking is needed. Vote-kicking, especially when it can be spammed without the target having knowledge of it is not only useless but harmful to a community feel in groups.
Discuss it in group. Try to help or correct the offender if the reasons warrent it. Even when it is a simple matter of the character can't pull his or her weight due to gear or level or skill, some direction on how to improve before dropping them is the best action and group chat is the way to go. Not to say that I've never seen incidents where someone is being really obnoxious and just needs kicking, but leader-based kicking or reforming the group works just fine in these situations. Vote-based kicking makes it too easy to "Bah, this guy's got nothing in his boot slot *initiate vote-kick*" which is not social, is mean and doesn't help anyone improve. The guy or girl is left wondering what they did wrong and may give up on a stupid game that he/she can't seem to play with anyone. Sure, a leader could also just kick him, but the chances of a silent kick get lowered by 5/6ths.
I also don't agree that there should be a vote-kick feature in the game. Allowing the group leader the option to kick (based on certain behaviour) should be allowed. Having to reform a group every time a player goes perma-afk, ninja loots, or otherwise makes the group want to kick them would be quite annoying.
Jazznblues said:If the group leader is after item X, then it comes to light a group member is also after item X. The group leader can just kick them for that, to save someone rolling against them.
Nothing more than greed gets someone removed from a group. They could also kick the other player when they get to the encounter that drops item X.
This is the only reason that I am leaning to a voting system, it's not the best process but it seems the fair one.
Also, I have grouped with some individuals that instigate a kick vote for something as trivial as a character name. Giving the leader the ability to kick will be abused IMO.
Then never group with that group leader again.
Is *unanimous* vote-kick (not counting the person being kicked) more or less subject to abuse than allowing the leader to kick with the only restraint on random or outright bad conduct by the leader being "don't group with that leader again"? I agree with what seems to be a consensus that majority vote-kick is the worst system and having no ability to kick at all is very inconvenient.