How do people feel about the group vote to kick a player?
What system do you think Pantheon will have?
Can you think of a fairer different way?
Personally, I feel it's the best solution on the whole, but can be exploited by say a guild group.
I try to run instances with a fair hand and mind. If advice will help the situation and said advice is taken in the manner it was given, rather than getting hostile all is good. Educate not berate I guess. But if the individual won't heed any given advice, then I get the job done, minus group drama. Then I usually block said individual, a list I clear every few months, just in case they learn.
Honestly, while I may have had some bad groups back in EQ - Some of the most rewarding groups I was ever in were ones in which there was a bad player and, instead of the group chastising or booting them, chose to help and teach them. Those groups rarely accomplished what we set out to do... but I always felt good when we all went our separate ways.
I think putting "Let us anonymously vote to kick you from the group" mechanics in the game go absolutely counter to what I think (without trying to speak for everyone) most here want from the game. That is, a game that above perhaps everything else, fosters community.
My thoughts only, of course.
If the group leader is after item X, then it comes to light a group member is also after item X. The group leader can just kick them for that, to save someone rolling against them.
Nothing more than greed gets someone removed from a group. They could also kick the other player when they get to the encounter that drops item X.
This is the only reason that I am leaning to a voting system, it's not the best process but it seems the fair one.
Also, I have grouped with some individuals that instigate a kick vote for something as trivial as a character name. Giving the leader the ability to kick will be abused IMO.
If you're in a group, and the group leader kicks someone simply so he won't have competition for loot, then it's up to you to decide if you really want to be in a group with a person like that. If you're Ok with that attitude, then fine. If not, then you can always form your own group, and you can remember that person in the future and decide whether you ever want to group with them again.
What happens if you form a group, and after a couple of hours people rotate in as others had to leave, and suddenly you find yourself in a group with people from the same guild, and they vote to kick you so they can get a guildy in?
Any way you look at it, there will be people who are jerks or want to game whatever system is available to their own end. I say just keep it simple and easy. If the leader kicks someone from a group, you know exactly who did it. If it's vote based, then you will have no idea who did or didn't vote for you to be kicked.
Also, if you don't want a leader to have the power to kick people, then how about the power to invite people? Should there be a voting system when someone wants to join a group? The same abuses can come from the ability to invite as the ability to kick.
NOOOOOOOOOOOO, Group kicking is a terrible idea, it can be abused in so many ways, I'd say if anything have it to where if someone isn't doing anything just kick him, and if he goes afk for 30~ min the game itself will log him out. this by itself will solve a lot of problems.
kelenin said:If you're in a group, and the group leader kicks someone simply so he won't have competition for loot, then it's up to you to decide if you really want to be in a group with a person like that. If you're Ok with that attitude, then fine. If not, then you can always form your own group, and you can remember that person in the future and decide whether you ever want to group with them again.
What happens if you form a group, and after a couple of hours people rotate in as others had to leave, and suddenly you find yourself in a group with people from the same guild, and they vote to kick you so they can get a guildy in?
Any way you look at it, there will be people who are jerks or want to game whatever system is available to their own end. I say just keep it simple and easy. If the leader kicks someone from a group, you know exactly who did it. If it's vote based, then you will have no idea who did or didn't vote for you to be kicked.
Also, if you don't want a leader to have the power to kick people, then how about the power to invite people? Should there be a voting system when someone wants to join a group? The same abuses can come from the ability to invite as the ability to kick.
Simple make the loot system remember you were part of the group before you got kicked and still have loot rights to gear that the named mob has= problem solved
Riahuf22 said:Simple make the loot system remember you were part of the group before you got kicked and still have loot rights to gear that the named mob has= problem solved
True, that works if he kicked the person during an encounter. A lot of games do this nowadays anyway, and probably for that very reason.
The biggest truth is there isn't a Correct Solution to anything to this, no matter what system you use it can be abused, that i can see any way, whether its, Leader/Group/best thing i can say is that maybe you cant kick someone out of group when their is a high value item on the ground that your group killed. i think this might be your best course of action
1) Can't kick someone once an encounter starts and they participated (If they have been sitting idle for 20 mins, that's not participating)
2) Any loot they took part in killing, still includes them on the rolls (Assuming rolls are more automated, rather than manual rolls and honor system as in EQ1)
If a member gets kicked right before the main encounter and the the group disapproves, it's easy for the rest of the group to just disband and let the leader bite the bullet.
The key to success in any group is communication. I have never been kicked from a group and likewise I have never kicked anyone from my group and believe me I have had some terrible group mates before. This whole kicking people from groups thing has never been a part of games like I perceive Pantheon to be. In this type of MMO your in game reputation has a way of making its way around the entire server. If you are greedy, do not follow instructions well, commonly grief other players or spend the entire session AFK, then it will be highly unlikely after some time that you will even find a group to get kicked out of. Again communication is key here if you are playing in a group of five and you know a regular friend or guild member usually logs in around a certain time, there is no harm in picking up a much needed 6th player to fill in until the other person gets there as long as this is mentioned up front and when that person gets there, you just drop group. It is really that simple.
From everything that I have heard discussed about Pantheon from the Dev's is that the game is very group centric. Sure there will be some raids but that is not the main focus of the game; building and maintaining the community is the main focus of the game. I plan to play, have fun and maintain a healthy friends list. I know his will not happen overnight but it is not that difficult to find likeminded people to play with in an old school type of MMO.
I don't see group vote kicking as a feature that Pantheon needs, group vote kicking was mainly created because of random dungeon finder and other automated grouping systems that pared you up with random players that you would never see again, since Pantheon won't have those systems group vote kicking isn't required because all your party member are from your server and players that you coose to group with, if by any chance there's a ninja looter in the group just ask your party leader to kick him, if the ninja looter is the party leader leave the group and put him on the ignore list. No need for group vote kicking, specially if all party members say their preference on the loot system being used and communicate during loot distribution.
Group kick ....bad. Leader kick ...bad, maybe worse. More likely for one person to act meanly, greedily or irrationally than the whole group.
jpedrote makes a good point.
How about vote kick that requires every single person in the group to agree other than the one being kicked - rather than a majority. Still can be abused but harder to abuse and gives a remedy if a player is truly annoying to everyone or goes afk and the group doesn't want to wait for the game to kick him/her.
I'm leaning towards no vote kick in my opinion. I do think the group leader should be able to kick (though not in combat). I get the risk of the leader kicking someone over something petty/greedy, but we're hoping for a social game where repuation matters - and that works both ways. Word will get around about how the jerk kicked them out of the group at the bottom of the dungeon.
As far as a groupwide "vote to kick" - I'm honestly not sure that will make much sense in the game, practically. Like jpedrote said, this was something that games did because of automated grouping systems and instances. Pantheon isn't going to have those to near the same level And, if someone is in a group being terrible, other members of the group will be able to send the leader a /tell to say "hey can you kick this guy?" That sort of thing.
I get why we might want to have it but it seems like it would be extra overhead for very little practical benefit, just due to what we think the nature of the game will be.
jpedrote said:I don't see group vote kicking as a feature that Pantheon needs, group vote kicking was mainly created because of random dungeon finder and other automated grouping systems that pared you up with random players that you would never see again, since Pantheon won't have those systems group vote kicking isn't required because all your party member are from your server and players that you coose to group with, if by any chance there's a ninja looter in the group just ask your party leader to kick him, if the ninja looter is the party leader leave the group and put him on the ignore list. No need for group vote kicking, specially if all party members say their preference on the loot system being used and communicate during loot distribution.
And this is exactly my take on the subject as well. Random dungeon generator, random people that never communicate are all parts of games that are completely different than what Pantheon is going to be. I play The Division which is one of the most impressive looking games I have ever played but I am basically forced to play a co-op game primarily solo because no one communicates and everyone is just doing their own thing. There is no point in having a chat box or an ingame voip system if no one ever uses it. Communication in a group centric game is the number one key to finding likeminded people to play with and it is the best way to find great people to hang out with and kill stuff.
I think the only place Votekick would be useful is if there is a random group finder, If a group forms, and one of the members doesnt fit.. then the leader has the say so..
If folks dont like the person that is the leader, over time, they will find themselves having a harder time getting groups.
Jazznblues said:How do people feel about the group vote to kick a player?
What system do you think Pantheon will have?
Can you think of a fairer different way?
Personally, I feel it's the best solution on the whole, but can be exploited by say a guild group.
I try to run instances with a fair hand and mind. If advice will help the situation and said advice is taken in the manner it was given, rather than getting hostile all is good. Educate not berate I guess. But if the individual won't heed any given advice, then I get the job done, minus group drama. Then I usually block said individual, a list I clear every few months, just in case they learn.
I really dislike this, its a habit in Rift I encountered, and probably emanates from Wow. I would like to see a friendly game world, not one where people judge because you didn't get the hang of a certain strategy first time out of the gate. This also means they expect you to hang out on you tube learning whatever strat it happens to be. I encountered groups like that, and it was UNPLEASANT, I have arthritic fingers therefore am not "twitchy" like some are. Let's keep friendliness in mind, treat people with respect ..and not fall into the "kickitus" habit. I left a guild that was like that, no patience no..helping just.."you didn't do it right" BOOT. So I left. I am friendly, sociable and willing to learn new things, willing to help others. It's not just about the phat lewt (pixels) This is also the express reason why I don't participate in raids any more, people are all impatient all about those pixels on the screen and don't care about anyone else beyond the end of their own noses. I REFUSE to be treated that way, and if I am you'll get an earful.
Cana
This stems from bad game design filled with younger players who have never experienced a game where reputation is important. It won't be necessary. The types of people who would get kicked or kick others for invalid reasons will have a lot of trouble finding groups after a few months. Everyone will know who everyone else is. Progressing without a group will be very difficult.
It's a non issue.
philo said:This stems from bad game design filled with younger players who have never experienced a game where reputation is important. It won't be necessary. The types of people who would get kicked or kick others for invalid reasons will have a lot of trouble finding groups after a few months. Everyone will know who everyone else is. Progressing without a group will be very difficult.
It's a non issue.
Very Valid points Philo, i believe this by itself will resolve so many problems when it comes to grping well for the ones that good rep anyway, i also say with this in mind and a bit off topic, no renaming potions or anything like that, if you want a fresh restart on your rep you have to make a brand new character for the mere fact the only reason you have bad rep is becuase you did it to yourself. and its going to be more than just one accusation to give you bad rep in a game so yeah just be good to people and good things will happen
