Bazgrim said:Enitzu said:Bazgrim said:Zuljan said:Bazgrim said:Zuljan said:Bazgrim said:Aradune said:Mandalorian2K said:I was an original pledger to the KS and so I got the update. I think it's a really good idea to continue posting updates there in case some of those people didn't move over and pledge here like I did. That being said, there was one part of the update that I was hoping to get clarification on and that is the bolded part about the next stream.
I was under the impression that we were closer than a couple months away from the next stream. I know it has been stated as soon and you were putting the finishing touches on two new zones. I figured we were maybe a few weeks to a month away at most, but that doesn't seem to be the case based on what was stated there. This isn't a sky is falling post or complaint, I'm just anxious to see the progress since the last stream and was hoping we were a little closer than a few months away to the next stream.
I just wanted to say thanks for taking the risk on making this game for all of us that have felt orphaned the past decade plus and for picking yourselves up and continuing to fight through the adversity of that failed KS. I can't wait to play this game. I've played many other MMOs over the years, but have basically been without a home since leaving EQ when they started dumbing it down and making it more solo friendly. It's no longer the game I fondly remember in it's current form and I'm looking forward to playing something that more closely resembles EQ Classic/Kunark/Velious era. I play P99 occasionally to scratch that itch until Pantheon releases. Thanks again for all you do!
I appreciate your perspective. We would rather under promise and over deliever. The next stream is running on time but I don't believe we've ever been specific about when it's happening.
To be fair, in the last stream you specifically said "we don't know exactly when the next one will be, but it won't be another 6 months". It has currently been a little over 4 months. So if the next stream is much longer than 1 month away, it will be a little disappointing. I totally understand that things change and it was really good to hear from you. I don't at all doubt that a lot of progress has been made. I'm just explaining that's where the expectations came from.
Yes. No one here is pointing fingers, spreading unfounded rumors, or picketing outside VR headquarters, so there is no need to give us what felt like the middle finger/guild remove speech Kilsin gave us in "Still No Stream" thread (I had to take a few days off the forums after reading those perfunctory responses). We are loyal, honest supporters, but we are hungry. The moral of the story is we just need something to hold us over to continue the hunt/spreading the good qualities and, most importantly, progress of the game to keep the community commensalistic, healthy, and thriving.
Sometimes perfunctory statements get perfunctory responses. If you are hungry, it should be common sense to not bite the hand that feeds you.
So my/our detailed responses over 3 threads regarding this issue are perfunctory compared to his responses that did not appease anyone or any of the questions we posed, and furthermore prompted additional comments/threads? With all respect, that is poor PR, no matter how much we love/respect Kilsin. Apart from your statement clearly making no sense, if you want to pick a fight in semantics and logic go to university. I'm here for Pantheon, and this just goes to show another example of the dissention between our own community members as a result of this issue. We can't talk about development when there isn't new material to be seen, and when logical statements about this are made, people with blind faith clinging to the devs such as yourself get the motherly instict to defend VR at all costs (and without any stated reasoning), which is completely counterproductive to these forums, development, and community as a whole.
And last time I checked, we feed them with donations, not vice versa. We wanted Vanguard, we wanted EQNext, we want Pantheon, if it's becomes another unfinished shell, we will all survive; however, that isn't what we want. It's also why we are trying to push them in the right direction in development/marketing which is what these forums are for. Try and leave some emotion/sensitivity at the door in place of objectivity... Taking a logical, respectful stand is not "biting" anyone. I don't know how many ways I can phrase how much we care about the game, which is obvious when you see the thought put into posts.
Moving to DMs to keep it civil. Check your messages.
When exactly did Bazgrim here get hired on as a moderator? It's one thing to point people to threads but telling people they can not voice their opinions for or against is a bit out of your range. Sorry
I'm not acting as a moderator. I just prefer to take 1-on-1 personal discussions to private messages so as to not derail the threads. For the record, I did not tell Zuljan that he cannot voice his opinion. In fact, quite the opposite. I appreciate his passion for the game and I believe he has the best interest of the game in mind. To that end, I basically just wanted to try to clarify some things that he appears to be incorrectly assuming and talk to him about expressing his opinions and desires in less inflammatory ways, for the sake of better discussion for all of us. I do that as someone that simply cares about the community, not in an authoritative way.
Bazgrim, I applaud you for your patience and respect for the community. There is nothing wrong with attempting to take a discussion like that into PM's because the majority of players would prefer to see the thread stay on track and not get derailed by a personal disagreement between 2 players. I appreciate you being proactive in that regard and preventing an unneccessary escalation. I found myself in that same situation many times on this forum and found it very difficult to resist the temptation of further argument. This is an area that I have been working on improving; self restraint can be a beast when you're super passionate! Anyway, thank you again for maintaining your composure. Others can call it whatever they want, but I view it as leading by example, and I will make a genuine effort to follow the unofficial code of conduct that you are looking to establish.
Evoras said:We are here to help development (the purpose of these forums). To that end, while you/we may have 'issues' about the game's progress - perceived, actual or imagined ... the aim is not merely to voice them, but to offer suggestions. Then other posters can assess these options and, perhaps, weigh in on them.
If it spirals into merely a spleen-venting discourse, then Kisin is duty-bound to lock the thread...
... as it would then be serving no developmental purpose.So, leading by example:
1. I think a monthly 'state of the game' for the old KS site is sensible (possibly re-connect with sleeping backers)
2. I think the updates (Screen-shots/newsletters) are helpful to generate interest,
3. I think that it is too early in the development to start a hype-train, but:
4. I think many 'older' (as in been backers/pledges for longer) supporters are marginally fatigued and
I think the fanbase (both here and on fan-sites) are marginally starved of concrete points to debate.To that end, I might suggest :
1. Continue with streams (possibly increase frequency at expense of durations)
Maybe move to every 3 months, for 90 mins. [developers + streamer]
Maybe add stream every 1 month, for 60 mins. [1 CS/DEV + streamer + 4 VIP's]
2. Minor 'reveal' added every month [offset from newsletter by 2 weeks]
This can (and perhaps should) be a cryptic reveal. Take a photo of a handwritten document of the 'current'
thinking on a mechanic, or concept art etc, then stretch it, invert it or somehow make it only a partial bit
of the whole image... with pieces revealed once per week to be stitched together.It is easy to understand the frustration many feel as I suspect we are currently in the developmental 'doldrums'....
... close enough to the Pre-Alpha for the developers to be stuck in lengthy 'behind-the-scenes' works,
... far enough away that they still have many un-locked features in place which they cannot reveal.
Even so, it behoves us to help as best we can.Evoras, hopes he wins the raffle to take part in a stream!
Yeah, this sounds like a golden ticket. How many Willy Wonka ideas do you have running around in that head of yours man? If I could nominate any member of this community to take part in the streams, it would be you. /hides from friends list
I realize that math is not my strong suit, but I have heard "last stream was over four months ago" in a couple of places now. How is March over four months away from December? Using my always reliable fingers to count, March 9th was three months from the last stream, so today would be like 3 months and seven days....not over four months. I think some people are getting ahead of themselves, I mean, I round up for the most part when I calculate things, but I think this is a bit on the over enthusiastic side.
Rominian said:I realize that math is not my strong suit, but I have heard "last stream was over four months ago" in a couple of places now. How is March over four months away from December? Using my always reliable fingers to count, March 9th was three months from the last stream, so today would be like 3 months and seven days....not over four months. I think some people are getting ahead of themselves, I mean, I round up for the most part when I calculate things, but I think this is a bit on the over enthusiastic side.
Good call lol. You're right. Dangit, it's too easy to think "December, January, February, March = 4 months" but the math doesn't work that way. I don't think I'm getting ahead of myself, sometimes my brain just decides it doesn't want to math anymore haha. I too have a bad habit of rounding up. I'll edit my post.
Rominian said:I realize that math is not my strong suit, but I have heard "last stream was over four months ago" in a couple of places now. How is March over four months away from December? Using my always reliable fingers to count, March 9th was three months from the last stream, so today would be like 3 months and seven days....not over four months. I think some people are getting ahead of themselves, I mean, I round up for the most part when I calculate things, but I think this is a bit on the over enthusiastic side.
And that ends the need to complain any more about stream targets not being met.. thank you Rom!!!
Wow, this certainly took a turn for the worse, I am not sure how an informative post from Brad, giving an out of the blue update turned into a few attacking him, the team and myself over not getting any information and being late for the next stream? I have linked several updates in other threads from Jan 1, 2017, to date and we continue to show measurable progress.
There are too many off-topic and derailing comments to moderate them all without having to also edit a lot of quotes, so for that reason, this thread will now be closed as it was intended to deliver information and has done just that.
I want to say to those of you who so kindly supported us in this thread (and in general across multiple platforms) and gave actual facts, accurate timeframes and used a reasonable and mature approach while replying, thank you! The team appreciates all kind of feedback and we even love criticism but as long as it is constructive, accurate and helpful, stamping feet and demanding answers for things that have already been answered or have been explained as to why there isn't more information yet is not helpful at all and only serves to drive a wedge in the community that I care for so greatly and I would appreciate it if those people used some of the energy wasted on their posts to instead research the information that we have released over the last few years and take into consideration how much progress we have made over the 2.5 years since we scrapped the game and started fresh with a lean but mean team of devs.
For the record;
Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Shaman Gameplay - Dec 2016 Stream ft. CohhCarnage - Published on Dec 11, 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO3MuXT7GrU
To make the 6-month timeline for our next stream, we would have to hold the next stream on or before on June 11, 2017 (we are in mid-March...so I honestly don't know where all the hyperbole and frustration is coming from)
We will try our best to make that timeline but as with anything in development, things can throw us a curve ball and change that date, just know that we are working very hard to get these new things implemented so we can show them off as we are just as excited as you to show off all of our hard work.
Thank you to the majority who believe in us and have continued to support us, it means a lot and we look forward to getting the next stream, new forums and pre-alpha testing out as soon as humanly possible, until then, you will have to put up with more of my "stale" content haha <3 ;)