Ok, not trying to dig up skeletons, but long ago we did a kickstarter. For a variety of reasons, mostly us not really understanding how far along we needed to be beforehand, it failed. But actually that's good news, because we learned a TON from the experience, and I'm happy to say that we some time ago surpassed those old goals via both crowdfunding and seed investment. Seriously, when looking at things big picture and considering how much we've learned over the years, I'm really glad we did what we did, unpolished and premature as it was, because we stood back up, brushed off our attire, and pushed forward.
So why do I bring it up? Even though it's closed, we can still use it to send update messages to everyone who pledged back then. So when we do a stream or other big update, I always try to update KS as well, and plan on doing it even more so going forward.
To that end I wrote up sort of a State of the Game address to bring people up to speed on the project who may or may not still be following it (mostly those who were not up-to-date). Quite a few people have commented to me since then that I should share these write-ups with the community as a whole. Hey, makes sense to me! We don't want only the old KS backers to get some of these bigger write-ups, yes?. So to that end, here's the link, check it out, and as always, post, message, ask questions, make comments, and do everything else our awesome community is wont to do!
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen/posts/1827659
Very good write-up. Although for those of us up to date there is nothing new, its always good to make sure those that haven't been around in a while see what is happening. Maybe they want to check up more frequently, or (hopefully) change to a higher pledge!
Although I'm one of those up to date, it kinda makes me want to go back and watch that last stream again :)
Thanks all. You're right -- it's audience is definitely someone who hasn't been keeping themselves up-to-date, which is pretty much the opposite of you crazy, unpredictable, and out of control mob! :)
That said, it could be useful in terms of spreading the word? As you find people who were interested before but haven't shared the amazing patience you all have, this might be a way and a message that gets their attention, that resonates with them....
We need more and more ways of having a shared and dedicated strike team, shared between the devs and community... then whatever their question is, or conern, or even doubt, then boom! We know exaclty what to refer them to.
Obviously we have the FB and web page, then the forums (here and elsewhere). We have our tenets, the Patheon Difference, and the recently updated uber-FAQ. Even more recently we've updated the Wiki and while I see a lot of petential there, I don't think it's quite what we're looking for just yet. We've been regularly updating the screenshot section -- what do you all think of that? Too much too often, or the opposite?
And then of course you have our twitch streams that have been so amazingly successful -- far beyond our hopes and dreams. Of course, we have to move the project forward and as much fun as it is to prep for one and then be able to show off and share with the community.. we're definitely commited to doing those every 4-6 months and with different streamers to hopefully reach demographics thus far totally unapped.
Understandng social media is of course a huge part of this and a continual effort. I think we're doing so-so there (not a slight on anyone by any means, but hey, if you can't be tough on yourself you really shouldn't be making an MMO, lol. The wiki page is finally officially up, but clearly a ways to go before it's in the state we all want it in.
Anyway, quick mind-dump there. Let's brainstorm together and tackle this head on! Onward and upward, as always!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was an original pledger to the KS and so I got the update. I think it's a really good idea to continue posting updates there in case some of those people didn't move over and pledge here like I did. That being said, there was one part of the update that I was hoping to get clarification on and that is the bolded part about the next stream.
"Anyway, enough said -- again, for those of you who may not have looked into the game for some time, please take a moment to do so -- I think you'll be impressed. Get on the forums, whether our own, or those at MMORPG.com and elsewhere, and give us your impressions, ask questions, and interact with the dev team. Another twitch stream is coming your way in just a few months. More screenshots and details about the game are consistently revealed. Thank you for your time and we look forward to you becoming part of the growing Pantheon community!"
-Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
Original Producer and Co-Designer, EverQuest.
I was under the impression that we were closer than a couple months away from the next stream. I know it has been stated as soon and you were putting the finishing touches on two new zones. I figured we were maybe a few weeks to a month away at most, but that doesn't seem to be the case based on what was stated there. This isn't a sky is falling post or complaint, I'm just anxious to see the progress since the last stream and was hoping we were a little closer than a few months away to the next stream.
I just wanted to say thanks for taking the risk on making this game for all of us that have felt orphaned the past decade plus and for picking yourselves up and continuing to fight through the adversity of that failed KS. I can't wait to play this game. I've played many other MMOs over the years, but have basically been without a home since leaving EQ when they started dumbing it down and making it more solo friendly. It's no longer the game I fondly remember in it's current form and I'm looking forward to playing something that more closely resembles EQ Classic/Kunark/Velious era. I play P99 occasionally to scratch that itch until Pantheon releases. Thanks again for all you do!
There are a few things I'd like to touch on, particularly my observations regarding three major goals that have been communicated.
A) The current goal for pre-alpha is to see it launch somewhere between Q1 and Q2 of this year.
B) We can expect at least a full year of testing prior to the official launch.
C) Deliver an MMO experience that will allow us to relive the golden years in the platinum age.
We know that neither A or B are set in stone and that C would be an epic accomplishment in and of itself, but nonetheless, they are indeed goals that we all hope to see realized. When taking all of these into consideration, it's fair to say that C holds the most weight, and it isn't even close. In regards to A and B, I would say that both of them go hand in hand. Rather than getting caught up in the moment of now, we have to realize that as soon as A is triggered, the countdown will officially begin for B. I think it's important for all of us to realize that we are working on a real time line here and that A needs to be executed with precision. If we start A too early, we're essentially putting an enormous amount of pressure on B, which could then have consequences for C.
I have done a fair amount of research on this game, including the benefits associated with the kickstarter. When you factor in all of the pledges from both the kickstarter and the current program, you can start to see just how big of an operation there is going on in the background. I envision a massive amount of work going into honoring all of these pledges as they will require hands on communication between the development team and the player base. Whether it's designing a dungeon or raid, a quest line, boss encounter, or item, all of these will be very demanding of development manpower. Beyond that, we're also going to see people naming items, NPC's, and points of interest. Facilitating all of this will be quite the daunting task, and we haven't even scratched the surface of analyzing feedback or continued game development. In my opinion, I think it would be a remarkable feat to get all of this done within a year.
With that being said, I have decided to kick back and truly embrace the virtue of patience when it comes to the ABC timeline. The notion of pitchforks and torches needs to be put to rest for a minimum of 3.5 months because at the end of the day, this is crunch time. VR is in hyper drive right now in an effort to flesh out their world as much as possible -- we need to respect that and let the evolution of gaming take it's course. These next 105 days or so are the icing on the cake, and while some people may not like icing, most of us do! When I start pre-alpha, I will appreciate seeing a world that has already evolved due to the in-house testing from VR. I know there will be plenty of bugs and areas with room for improvement, but that is to be expected. You only get one chance to deliver a first impression and I don't want mine to be tainted because of outside noise or pressure.
I think an updated fan kit would be particularly useful right now because as soon one becomes available, you'll see a huge burst of community generated content being spread all around the net. User generated content is the absolute best kind of marketing because consumers are more interested in hearing the views of their peers than being pitched by a company or marketing campaign. I shared an idea a couple months ago that I think would be very effective with acquiring more backers. Basically, you allow the existing community to go on a "real life quest" by utilizing a "Refer A Backer" system. Unlike traditional affiliate marketing where they would be getting paid cash, they would instead be able to increase their own pledge level based on the amount of backers who pledge through their affiliate link. If someone pledges on a payment plan, the affiliate would get incremental credit as the payments are received. Here is a link to that thread: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5106/-/view/post_id/87187
Thank you for the update Brad, I know many are just as excited about the game as I but I keep in mind most MMO's take around 5 years to create. Even then they usually struggle the first year or two until they find their own identity. So as we are only about 2.5 years into the making of the game after the complete restart. I say I can be patient for about another 2.5 years :). Thanks for all you do, and keep up the great work!
Mandalorian2K said:I was an original pledger to the KS and so I got the update. I think it's a really good idea to continue posting updates there in case some of those people didn't move over and pledge here like I did. That being said, there was one part of the update that I was hoping to get clarification on and that is the bolded part about the next stream.
I was under the impression that we were closer than a couple months away from the next stream. I know it has been stated as soon and you were putting the finishing touches on two new zones. I figured we were maybe a few weeks to a month away at most, but that doesn't seem to be the case based on what was stated there. This isn't a sky is falling post or complaint, I'm just anxious to see the progress since the last stream and was hoping we were a little closer than a few months away to the next stream.
I just wanted to say thanks for taking the risk on making this game for all of us that have felt orphaned the past decade plus and for picking yourselves up and continuing to fight through the adversity of that failed KS. I can't wait to play this game. I've played many other MMOs over the years, but have basically been without a home since leaving EQ when they started dumbing it down and making it more solo friendly. It's no longer the game I fondly remember in it's current form and I'm looking forward to playing something that more closely resembles EQ Classic/Kunark/Velious era. I play P99 occasionally to scratch that itch until Pantheon releases. Thanks again for all you do!
I appreciate your perspective. We would rather under promise and over deliever. The next stream is running on time but I don't believe we've ever been specific about when it's happening.
Saicred said:Thank you for the update Brad, I know many are just as excited about the game as I but I keep in mind most MMO's take around 5 years to create. Even then they usually struggle the first year or two until they find their own identity. So as we are only about 2.5 years into the making of the game after the complete restart. I say I can be patient for about another 2.5 years :). Thanks for all you do, and keep up the great work!
Thanks :) MMOs are indeed complex, require a ton of content, and therefore can take quite a while to develop. There are things we as developers can do to keep times under control, however. Guarding against feature creep is one. Optimizing at least every month. Solid product planning with accountability. A clear roadmap to alpha, beta, and then release backed up by the experiences of devs who have actually launched MMOs and other games before. Unity is also truly a game engine and less of 'just' a graphics engine, allowing us to quickly prototype and accelerate development in general. Same with C# -- what an incredible language!
And, of course, not trying to make a game that is all things to all people is key. Knowing your target audience and demographics is essential. Focusing on them, interacting with them, listening to and nuturing them is all incredibly important, especially if you're game is a community-centric MMO (which of course Pantheon is). This helps with feature creep and trying to launch with something that is simply too aggressive or wide reaching. As I've stated before, I think the future of MMO development (and arguably a lot of game development in general) are smaller, tighter, leaner teams making the absolute best game they can for an audience they understand, not to mention the trust that exists between the devs and that audience. Hopefully the lowest common denomiator games and the 'must be mass market and make everyone happy!' days are numbered.
Other things can happen to slow things down, though, like having to grow more slowly, being transparent with the community, etc.
I'm certainly not going to say, guess, or imply anything regarding when I think Pantheon will launch and/or how long the overall development cycle is going to be. Far too early for that, and truly no need. I will say, however, that while many MMOs have taken 5-6 years, EverQuest 1 took 3 years. Probably because we were too ignorant to know what a crazy, large, and complex game we were wanting to make, lol. Sometimes ignorance is truly bliss. I will say this for certain, and that is by having a solid mixture of MMO veterans and hungry, talented, full of energy 'noobs', you can get a LOT done. If you don't have people telling you you're being too agressive or that something simply can't be done more quickly than X months or years, it can really help. That said, while new mistakes are ok as we are all human, being able to learn from past mistakes and doing your damndest not to repeat them also really helps the development cycle. Even technology like the Cloud is a huge time saver -- we can build and deploy a server pretty much anywhere in a matter of hours (if not less), don't need huge operations centers, etc. A lot of time and money can be saved now that even 10 years ago would not have been possible.
Anyway, as I've said before many times, what's important to us is that it's a great game, a FUN game, a STICKY game, a SOCIAL game, that it's not rushed out, that there is enough content, and that we've had enough time to test during alpha and beta such that we're able to address any major balance or tecnical issues earlier as opposed to later. I think the team has a great sense of urgency and they are truly pouring their hearts and souls into this. That said, they don't feel rushed either, or pressured to cut corners or to not do the right thing.
Brad thats a long well thought out post. Thats very appreciated. /applaud and thanks for that time and effort.
I only found out about Pantheon last week (early) and i have already made bold moves on site and ready to test/ VIP pledge to move things along. Being one of those "march 16, 99" babies from the old days (i wonder if the servers caught on fire that first week in march 99 LOL!!!!) i cant wait to get into the game. However, I think a good way to show this game off is more streams. Twitch. Youtube. More eyes on it helping make it better. Restricted NDA for those that are streaming, and let a gang of VIP people spot some of the game while Dev's build/take a breathe. /Bug is our friend in early stages. Want funding? NO problem, target the group of VIP's thats been waiting and task them with the job of helping making it shine. Probably already the plan but again im new here. Streaming under NDA showing the game off in this day and age almost is the best advertisement. I build vintage mustangs. (hence avatar), and i get mobbed with interest because of tube and my videos. The more people see. The more people want. Its not like old days. People sharing what Cohh did is how i found it. Thats powerful. Tonite i met with some of my old friends that played the original, and we started forming the band again. Watched and listened carefully to the 3 hour stream on a 65in big screen. Talked about game and how to approach it. We probably pointed 10 things out. We all laughed and said "pre-alpha man" calm down. What if there was more of that streaming for others?. The pledgers testing/helping with game can help Find things you might have missed? Or input on something that just doesnt look right? IE a slope down on the terrain where you fought first spider in the dungeon, if you notice the backfoot of the characters are dug into the ground while the front foot pointed towards mob, hitting the mob, looks like its floating? Im sure its annotated but little things like that. I go into a zone im gonna pick thru it and watch. And if somethings off /bug it. Lord knows i dont want more work for anyone. Not the point. The more people that have their eyes on it sweeping things up (under NDA of course) the more pure it will be. Specially those of us that are older and understand its fragility and importance. I dont want to say the games name but kinda like how /cough... "the next" was attempting to do with their player base. Goal isnt to level up fast. Goal is to level/explore and find whats missing as a tester and player. Have tester mission statements assigned to explore this zone and /bug what might be wrong about it. Having a larger group of folks helping, searching, pointing things out. Im sure thats what pre-alpha or whatever will be so ill shut up now!!! Either way itll be exciting. ANd i look forward to being part of it rather watching or playing. You guys have a lot on your plate.
/logout (cause i already said too much Lol!)
Aradune said:Saicred said:Thank you for the update Brad, I know many are just as excited about the game as I but I keep in mind most MMO's take around 5 years to create. Even then they usually struggle the first year or two until they find their own identity. So as we are only about 2.5 years into the making of the game after the complete restart. I say I can be patient for about another 2.5 years :). Thanks for all you do, and keep up the great work!
Thanks :) MMOs are indeed complex, require a ton of content, and therefore can take quite a while to develop. There are things we as developers can do to keep times under control, however. Guarding against feature creep is one. Optimizing at least every month. Solid product planning with accountability. A clear roadmap to alpha, beta, and then release backed up by the experiences of devs who have actually launched MMOs and other games before. Unity is also truly a game engine and less of 'just' a graphics engine, allowing us to quickly prototype and accelerate development in general. Same with C# -- what an incredible language!
And, of course, not trying to make a game that is all things to all people is key. Knowing your target audience and demographics is essential. Focusing on them, interacting with them, listening to and nuturing them is all incredibly important, especially if you're game is a community-centric MMO (which of course Pantheon is). This helps with feature creep and trying to launch with something that is simply too aggressive or wide reaching. As I've stated before, I think the future of MMO development (and arguably a lot of game development in general) are smaller, tighter, leaner teams making the absolute best game they can for an audience they understand, not to mention the trust that exists between the devs and that audience. Hopefully the lowest common denomiator games and the 'must be mass market and make everyone happy!' days are numbered.
Other things can happen to slow things down, though, like having to grow more slowly, being transparent with the community, etc.
I'm certainly not going to say, guess, or imply anything regarding when I think Pantheon will launch and/or how long the overall development cycle is going to be. Far too early for that, and truly no need. I will say, however, that while many MMOs have taken 5-6 years, EverQuest 1 took 3 years. Probably because we were too ignorant to know what a crazy, large, and complex game we were wanting to make, lol. Sometimes ignorance is truly bliss. I will say this for certain, and that is by having a solid mixture of MMO veterans and hungry, talented, full of energy 'noobs', you can get a LOT done. If you don't have people telling you you're being too agressive or that something simply can't be done more quickly than X months or years, it can really help. That said, while new mistakes are ok as we are all human, being able to learn from past mistakes and doing your damndest not to repeat them also really helps the development cycle. Even technology like the Cloud is a huge time saver -- we can build and deploy a server pretty much anywhere in a matter of hours (if not less), don't need huge operations centers, etc. A lot of time and money can be saved now that even 10 years ago would not have been possible.
Anyway, as I've said before many times, what's important to us is that it's a great game, a FUN game, a STICKY game, a SOCIAL game, that it's not rushed out, that there is enough content, and that we've had enough time to test during alpha and beta such that we're able to address any major balance or tecnical issues earlier as opposed to later. I think the team has a great sense of urgency and they are truly pouring their hearts and souls into this. That said, they don't feel rushed either, or pressured to cut corners or to not do the right thing.
Well Thank you for this response. I honestly wasn't even expecting one for my comment here, but simply was just trying to put some awarness around how much great work you and the small team you have has been able to do in such a short amount of time. Keep doing what you are doing and we will be here waiting as patiently as we can for as long as you need :).
Nice write up. Any update at all is a good thing.
I will be honest here and tell you my fears and maybe you can say something here that would change it.
I have been doing the $5 a month thing off and on. I know it's not much, but imaging if 200,000 people were ALL giving $5 a month. I would say financials would no longer be a worry.
I wouldn't mind giving more money to the Pantheon but I have seen games further along than Pantheon, crumble and die over night.
Kingdom of Amular was supposed to be an mmo and they had a good amount done in developement and boom, cancelled. There have been others as well, I just can't remember the names of the other games that just ... went away quietly... EverQuest Next... I really wanted to play that game... cancelled, and it looked to have as much or more done than Pantheon.
The game looks great in the twitch streams, the last one even looked polished to a degree. but, I have seen one zone, thronfeast, and a couple dungeons and some screen shots of gnome area.
So looking past the excitement for this game, i wonder if that's ALL that's done, 1/3rd of a continent? and there is supposed to be 2 of them?
Maybe take the world map and mark up what is done, being worked on, still in developement, etc. Maybe that's asking way too much.
From the outside, there is no way to see how much is actually done or really close to being done. I can only go off what i see. Thronfeast and 2 dungeons.
The Class area on the pantheon site is basically DOA. 3 classes with any info at all and that info is vague at best. Cleric: can heal, Has "magic dome", wears plate. done.
People coming to Pantheonmmo.com want info. A younger person might come here after hearing about the game and wants to know if Hunter and Ranger are the same thing. No info.
Does the Druid work like Balance or Restoration? Can I tank as a druid? or shapechange? no info.
I am apprehensive about giving $300, $500 or $1000 to a game that is somewhat open, but still very closed door about actual progress.
Please don't take this as complaining or whatever, I just am not good at expressing things in text the way it goes thru my head.
I really want this game to be a reality. I share everything you guys post on FB. and I tell every gamer I come across about the game. I promote the game literally every chance I get.
I love the any new screen shots, I post them everywhere every time there's a new one.
I am your biggest fan Brad. When I talk about Pantheon I always mention your name and say Brad Mcquaid, the guy that made Original EQ !
Thank you for the link. Good read.
Naim said:Nice write up. Any update at all is a good thing.
[cut for brevity]
This post sums it up very nicely. Even those of us from the EQ days are apprehensive about what's coming down the pipe... there are a lot of reassurances with few details. If you're not ready to lay out a lot more game info, then you should probably wait on any push to increase pledges. Or even to increase viewers... pushing too early can leave a game feeling like it's dead before it even started. As a developer I can understand there's a lot going on in the background, but for gamers that doesn't add up to too much visually. And definitely too little and too vague for general consumption.
Additionally, no one knows how far away launch is. Is it a year? two?? three??? Yes, you don't know this, but it's hard to have sustained enthusiasm when the goal is so elusive. Even the upcoming stream is difficult to get excited about cause it could happen next week or two months from now. And who knows if it will show much beyond the last one?
So I'd say wait at least until the new website, and then if you have the details make the push.
Thanks for the communication. I think the communication here is impressive. Daybreak (nee SoE) is an industry leader in failing to communicate the contrast is ...notable.
There has been enormous progress which is easy to gloss over when one thinks of all the things that still need to be done to hit release. Patience is difficult and experience teaches that it is easy to be patient near the beginning when any fool knows that nothing will be ready for years. When you get closer, that same fool starts to sniff success and suddenly questions why it isn't pre-alpha yet, why getting to beta will take more than a week, shouldn't we have new streams every few hours and the like.
Naim's points are valid - if you can be a bit more specific that will reduce questions along the lines of "how do I know that this isn't just another piece of well presented vaporware?" All of you are working hard and know that success isn't an absolutely certain thing - if it was you wouldn't have to work so hard. Well we know it too so questions like that aren't a sign of lack of trust in the team or lack of belief in the game. Just a reflection of a basic law of the universe - spit happens, and often to the nicest people. You don't want to overpromise and you certainly don't want to be less than truthful but as you get closer the time will come when you need to be more specific and even set a tentative release date. Managing the expectations then is part of the job - happens with every new MMO - as if I need to tell that to YOU ((laughs)).
Aradune said:Mandalorian2K said:I was an original pledger to the KS and so I got the update. I think it's a really good idea to continue posting updates there in case some of those people didn't move over and pledge here like I did. That being said, there was one part of the update that I was hoping to get clarification on and that is the bolded part about the next stream.
I was under the impression that we were closer than a couple months away from the next stream. I know it has been stated as soon and you were putting the finishing touches on two new zones. I figured we were maybe a few weeks to a month away at most, but that doesn't seem to be the case based on what was stated there. This isn't a sky is falling post or complaint, I'm just anxious to see the progress since the last stream and was hoping we were a little closer than a few months away to the next stream.
I just wanted to say thanks for taking the risk on making this game for all of us that have felt orphaned the past decade plus and for picking yourselves up and continuing to fight through the adversity of that failed KS. I can't wait to play this game. I've played many other MMOs over the years, but have basically been without a home since leaving EQ when they started dumbing it down and making it more solo friendly. It's no longer the game I fondly remember in it's current form and I'm looking forward to playing something that more closely resembles EQ Classic/Kunark/Velious era. I play P99 occasionally to scratch that itch until Pantheon releases. Thanks again for all you do!
I appreciate your perspective. We would rather under promise and over deliever. The next stream is running on time but I don't believe we've ever been specific about when it's happening.
As others have mentioned, we appreciate you taking the time to make this address to the community. With that said (and as many have stated on other threads not limited to but including the March Newsletter), people's skepticism/uncertainty won't be sated until we are able to see some semblence of visual progress. While ZippyZee attempted to more accurately address this issue is the "Three Months and no Stream" thread, there was still no definitive answer/confirmation to any progress, other than "yes, this game is absolutely on track." On track would suggest the planned Q1/Q2 testing goal as was mentioned, in addition to you saying in the last stream "updates will come faster and the next stream won't be 6 months from now." Considering you just updated kickstarter, saying to expect a stream in the next couple months etc, it is implicit that things aren't on schedule.
Kilsin is clinging onto "we gave you announcements and an updated FAQ promising 2 new zones on the next stream." So after multiple threads, one being locked, and over 20 people voicing the same concerns (for the first time during Pantheon's development mind you), we are basically being told to keep talking about "what we hope for," the way we have been for the past 4months-3 years while we are patiently waiting for nothing more than updates/screenshots (just SOMETHING) that isn't from the same 2/3 zones and 2/3 character models/races shown on the last stream. With all due respect, it feels like a slap on the face to read that after we've all kept our mouths closed and patient, backing this game on mmorpg etc (and for good reason, as nothing has been empty words up until [possible] now) for months, and some people for years.
What scares me most about the only honest response toward progress (given by Zippy thank you again Zippy for trying to bring more clairvoyance to Kilsin's attempt at an explanation), is he says "We do have internal milestones but in the end we are more than willing to scrap work on something if it doesn't feel right and try out alternatives." This proceeds a quote from the same paragraph, stating Pantheon is CURRENTLY seeking more funding for development (for arguments sake, what company doesn't want to expand, generally speaking, if money permits), but then why are more "story writers" and "web developers" being hired if the need is for world development, and why is the team so willing to "scrap work on something if it doesn't feel right?"
Ultimately, these are your most loyal fans who are now (for the first time) genuinely concerned with the progress (based on but not limited to the aforementioned thoughts). No one is holding pitchforks; rather, we are standing with open hands waiting for the piece of bread which we all assumed would be here by now based on what has been said. Perhaps pledge money is a drop in the bucket compared to KS/angel funding, but from a marketing stand point, you are losing the eyes of people on the fence wanting to pledge, and starting to lose loyalty in the core base wanting to pledge more by not giving any semblence of PROVEN progress whatsoever. Even one's most loyal subjects can only dance and sing over the same hopes/promises of the past 4 months to 3 years for so long. There has literally not been a single new zone, animation, model, etc since the last stream. For argument's sake, look at Ashes of Creation. While there are lurking variables there (namely the visuals look stunning and are so good they are drawing hype regardless of gameplay mechanics/quality), they come out of abosolutely nowhere, drop one short/UI-less update trailer, and they've wrecked pantheon and every other MMO in development/ratings on mmorpg and other sites for the past month or two because of it. It's flashy, yes, but that isn't going to get you number 1 for months. People just want updates. People are predictable. The thing is, you at VR are as intelligent as seasoned as your loyal fanbase, so none of this is a surprise to you or the marketing team. As you can see, none of this looks/feels good from our perspective (we are obviously the most loya/bias to the cause). Some of the threads (or carrot on a stick posts to keep forums buzzing as I like to call them) are just blatantly underwhelming/poorly done. The "what is your favorite zone" or "which zone would you spend a day" in threads. With all due respect, Jesus Christ, we've seen what 4 zones total, and on stream I believe 2 of those areas may have been areas within the same zone (or the Amberfaet zone type deal which shows no real progress or completion of thezone itself, making it impossible to known anything about it). It's back to the wishing well for threads like that, and it simply makes the box of cereal even more stale.
Remedying these issues wouldn't just satisfy curious/hopeful minds, but would more importantly bring/keep the unchecked (independent vote if you will) of MMO'ers out there who we are losing. People have been let down too many times by KS mmos, that they just need a little more convincing in today's day and age. I'm all for keeping doors closed if you have the funding and don't need to worry at all about what people think because you know the game willl take over the world when it drops, but it's been officially stated more funding is being persued, so we're clearly not in that boat.
Aradune said:Mandalorian2K said:I was an original pledger to the KS and so I got the update. I think it's a really good idea to continue posting updates there in case some of those people didn't move over and pledge here like I did. That being said, there was one part of the update that I was hoping to get clarification on and that is the bolded part about the next stream.
I was under the impression that we were closer than a couple months away from the next stream. I know it has been stated as soon and you were putting the finishing touches on two new zones. I figured we were maybe a few weeks to a month away at most, but that doesn't seem to be the case based on what was stated there. This isn't a sky is falling post or complaint, I'm just anxious to see the progress since the last stream and was hoping we were a little closer than a few months away to the next stream.
I just wanted to say thanks for taking the risk on making this game for all of us that have felt orphaned the past decade plus and for picking yourselves up and continuing to fight through the adversity of that failed KS. I can't wait to play this game. I've played many other MMOs over the years, but have basically been without a home since leaving EQ when they started dumbing it down and making it more solo friendly. It's no longer the game I fondly remember in it's current form and I'm looking forward to playing something that more closely resembles EQ Classic/Kunark/Velious era. I play P99 occasionally to scratch that itch until Pantheon releases. Thanks again for all you do!
I appreciate your perspective. We would rather under promise and over deliever. The next stream is running on time but I don't believe we've ever been specific about when it's happening.
To be fair, in the last stream you specifically said "we don't know exactly when the next one will be, but it won't be another 6 months". It has currently been a little over 3 months. So if the next stream is actually "a few months away," it will be a little disappointing. I totally understand that things change and it was really good to hear from you. I don't at all doubt that a lot of progress has been made. I'm just explaining that's where the expectations came from.
Edit: fixed the math thanks to Rominian lol
Bazgrim said:Aradune said:Mandalorian2K said:I was an original pledger to the KS and so I got the update. I think it's a really good idea to continue posting updates there in case some of those people didn't move over and pledge here like I did. That being said, there was one part of the update that I was hoping to get clarification on and that is the bolded part about the next stream.
I was under the impression that we were closer than a couple months away from the next stream. I know it has been stated as soon and you were putting the finishing touches on two new zones. I figured we were maybe a few weeks to a month away at most, but that doesn't seem to be the case based on what was stated there. This isn't a sky is falling post or complaint, I'm just anxious to see the progress since the last stream and was hoping we were a little closer than a few months away to the next stream.
I just wanted to say thanks for taking the risk on making this game for all of us that have felt orphaned the past decade plus and for picking yourselves up and continuing to fight through the adversity of that failed KS. I can't wait to play this game. I've played many other MMOs over the years, but have basically been without a home since leaving EQ when they started dumbing it down and making it more solo friendly. It's no longer the game I fondly remember in it's current form and I'm looking forward to playing something that more closely resembles EQ Classic/Kunark/Velious era. I play P99 occasionally to scratch that itch until Pantheon releases. Thanks again for all you do!
I appreciate your perspective. We would rather under promise and over deliever. The next stream is running on time but I don't believe we've ever been specific about when it's happening.
To be fair, in the last stream you specifically said "we don't know exactly when the next one will be, but it won't be another 6 months". It has currently been a little over 4 months. So if the next stream is much longer than 1 month away, it will be a little disappointing. I totally understand that things change and it was really good to hear from you. I don't at all doubt that a lot of progress has been made. I'm just explaining that's where the expectations came from.
Yes. No one here is pointing fingers, spreading unfounded rumors, or picketing outside VR headquarters, so there is no need to give us what felt like the middle finger/guild remove speech Kilsin gave us in "Still No Stream" thread (I had to take a few days off the forums after reading those perfunctory responses). We are loyal, honest supporters, but we are hungry. The moral of the story is we just need something to hold us over to continue the hunt/spreading the good qualities and, most importantly, progress of the game to keep the community commensalistic, healthy, and thriving.
Zuljan said:Bazgrim said:Aradune said:Mandalorian2K said:I was an original pledger to the KS and so I got the update. I think it's a really good idea to continue posting updates there in case some of those people didn't move over and pledge here like I did. That being said, there was one part of the update that I was hoping to get clarification on and that is the bolded part about the next stream.
I was under the impression that we were closer than a couple months away from the next stream. I know it has been stated as soon and you were putting the finishing touches on two new zones. I figured we were maybe a few weeks to a month away at most, but that doesn't seem to be the case based on what was stated there. This isn't a sky is falling post or complaint, I'm just anxious to see the progress since the last stream and was hoping we were a little closer than a few months away to the next stream.
I just wanted to say thanks for taking the risk on making this game for all of us that have felt orphaned the past decade plus and for picking yourselves up and continuing to fight through the adversity of that failed KS. I can't wait to play this game. I've played many other MMOs over the years, but have basically been without a home since leaving EQ when they started dumbing it down and making it more solo friendly. It's no longer the game I fondly remember in it's current form and I'm looking forward to playing something that more closely resembles EQ Classic/Kunark/Velious era. I play P99 occasionally to scratch that itch until Pantheon releases. Thanks again for all you do!
I appreciate your perspective. We would rather under promise and over deliever. The next stream is running on time but I don't believe we've ever been specific about when it's happening.
To be fair, in the last stream you specifically said "we don't know exactly when the next one will be, but it won't be another 6 months". It has currently been a little over 4 months. So if the next stream is much longer than 1 month away, it will be a little disappointing. I totally understand that things change and it was really good to hear from you. I don't at all doubt that a lot of progress has been made. I'm just explaining that's where the expectations came from.
Yes. No one here is pointing fingers, spreading unfounded rumors, or picketing outside VR headquarters, so there is no need to give us what felt like the middle finger/guild remove speech Kilsin gave us in "Still No Stream" thread (I had to take a few days off the forums after reading those perfunctory responses). We are loyal, honest supporters, but we are hungry. The moral of the story is we just need something to hold us over to continue the hunt/spreading the good qualities and, most importantly, progress of the game to keep the community commensalistic, healthy, and thriving.
I am all for being objective and not letting high hopes cloud judgment. But sometimes perfunctory statements get perfunctory responses. If you are hungry, it should be common sense to not bite the hand that feeds you.
Naim said:Maybe take the world map and mark up what is done, being worked on, still in developement, etc. Maybe that's asking way too much.
Quoted because I think this would actually be a brilliant idea! Post a map with the rough outlines of each continent, and then as you work on the zones, fill in more details. Could be used as another teaser to keep our fantasy occupied!
Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning went bankrupt. We were all waiting for Project Copernicus their ftp MMO. That currently is sitting somewhere on dusty government shelves in Rhode Island thanks to the erstwhile Governor Chaffee. Rule of thumb never do game development with government types, they don't understand the business model. You can still play KOA:R ..Electronic Arts sells it on Steam for cheap. Just no updates or bug fixes other than the original 3 dlc that the dev team put out before everything fell to pieces thanks to Chaffee. Pantheon is already a reality..is already a work in progress. Most games in development take AT LEAST or at minimum 5 years to develop. I am a long time gamer, long time beta tester..from 1995 onwards. Game development is ALWAYS hurry up and wait. People new to game development don't get that I understand. Patience and a little faith are required here. I've played McQuaid games before, hence why I paid my $1000.00 in the summer of 2014.
Patience, we'll get there...imagining this game is vaporware is ..absolutely incorrect.
Cana