I checked out the recent article on MMORPG.com where Pantheon was featured, and stumbled upon a few pieces of juicy info that I can't seem to locate anywhere on this forum. With that said, I'd like to share these findings with my fellow Pantheon Fanatics who appreciate these teasers as much as I do:
4.11 Can I play with my friend’s new character using my high-level character? What about alts?
Yes, through the Mentor System. Mentoring temporarily de-levels your character and allows you to group with them. You will either scale down or assume the character you were at that lower level (TBD) and be a huge help. This will enable players to group together without one being overpowered and content trivialized.
The Mentor System is voluntary although there will be incentives to mentor, giving your character certain advantages (points, recognition, and other rewards – the details are TBD). We want to encourage people to help new players. Additionally, there will be incentives to create alternate characters through the Progeny System (where when you reach a certain level you can create an alternate level one character who will have some advantages over a brand-new character).
This is a response to the above information:
Albatroes said:
My question about that is, will it be as extreme as FFXI/XIV when you scale down and grey out your higher level abilities or will it be like Rift/GW2 where you keep all your abilities but they are just scaled down in terms of damage?
Aradune: Not sure yet -- we may simply save your character every time you level and then you'd temporarily become that character. Perhaps with some bonuses.
Also found this:
Joseph_Kerr said:
Any word on a diplomacy system?
Aradune: If we did one, it would most likely be post-launch.
So to summarize, we have a potentially new take on how the Mentor System will be implemented in Pantheon, an understanding that diplomacy may eventually be added to the game, and some VERY insightful information on the Progeny system. I find it particularly interesting that the phrase is worded in a way that suggests that characters rolled through Progeny would be considered an alternate. Does this mean they wouldn't be replacing the original, or that the original wouldn't necessarily be "retired" from the game? I really hope that is the case! Speculate!
oneADseven said:I find it particularly interesting that the phrase is worded in a way that suggests that characters rolled through Progeny would be considered an alternate. Does this mean they wouldn't be replacing the original, or that the original wouldn't necessarily be "retired" from the game? I really hope that is the case! Speculate!
Brad had mentioned previously in one of the long Progeny threads that the implementation was still TBD, and they were considering options that may not require sacrificing the original main.
Elrandir said:oneADseven said:I find it particularly interesting that the phrase is worded in a way that suggests that characters rolled through Progeny would be considered an alternate. Does this mean they wouldn't be replacing the original, or that the original wouldn't necessarily be "retired" from the game? I really hope that is the case! Speculate!
Brad had mentioned previously in one of the long Progeny threads that the implementation was still TBD, and they were considering options that may not require sacrificing the original main.
Yep ... I was an advocate for being able to keep our original mains in one of the large progeny threads. The idea of not knowing has been eating away at me! This could just be smoke or misinterpretation on my part, but I felt like it was worth sharing anyway.
If that is the case...that our main character isn't sacrificed, hopefully there are multiple options with different benefits. One would allow you to sacrifice the character and another option would let you keep it.
If you don't have to make a sacrifice it is just rewarding someone for making an alt. That seems unnecessary.
I think rewarding someone for making an alt is actually at the heart of the reason for implementing the Progeny system. The idea being so more people will replay old content. Part of the problem with aging MMO's is that the population gets top heavy, so dev's are forced to make tough decisions about new content: Do they add the majority of the content at the higher levels where the bulk of the population is, or do they add a spread of content across all levels. If there isn't much of an influx of new players, then adding lower level content doesn't make a lot of sense, but adding to the top just creates an ever growing barrier for new players to overcome if they want to break into the game. So the development process is basically working against itself in terms of maintaining a healthy population. If they can figure out a way to make the Progeny system work and players decide to take advantage of it, then new content can be spread across all levels of gameplay, veteran players will have new things to do, and new players will join an environment where early level content isn't a wasteland.
The progeny system was actually a huge turn-off for me when I first read about it in the FAQ, but after taking time to consider their reasoning for it, I fully appreciate why the dev's want it in the game. If they can come up with a system that preserves our mains, I'll be that much less apprehensive about it. Either way, I think it's a forward thinking solution to preserving the game's health in the long term.
oneADseven said:I checked out the recent article on MMORPG.com where Pantheon was featured, and stumbled upon a few pieces of juicy info that I can't seem to locate anywhere on this forum. With that said, I'd like to share these findings with my fellow Pantheon Fanatics who appreciate these teasers as much as I do:
4.11 Can I play with my friend’s new character using my high-level character? What about alts?
Yes, through the Mentor System. Mentoring temporarily de-levels your character and allows you to group with them. You will either scale down or assume the character you were at that lower level (TBD) and be a huge help. This will enable players to group together without one being overpowered and content trivialized.
The Mentor System is voluntary although there will be incentives to mentor, giving your character certain advantages (points, recognition, and other rewards – the details are TBD). We want to encourage people to help new players. Additionally, there will be incentives to create alternate characters through the Progeny System (where when you reach a certain level you can create an alternate level one character who will have some advantages over a brand-new character).
This is a response to the above information:
Albatroes said:
My question about that is, will it be as extreme as FFXI/XIV when you scale down and grey out your higher level abilities or will it be like Rift/GW2 where you keep all your abilities but they are just scaled down in terms of damage?
Aradune: Not sure yet -- we may simply save your character every time you level and then you'd temporarily become that character. Perhaps with some bonuses.
Also found this:
Joseph_Kerr said:
Any word on a diplomacy system?
Aradune: If we did one, it would most likely be post-launch.
So to summarize, we have a potentially new take on how the Mentor System will be implemented in Pantheon, an understanding that diplomacy may eventually be added to the game, and some VERY insightful information on the Progeny system. I find it particularly interesting that the phrase is worded in a way that suggests that characters rolled through Progeny would be considered an alternate. Does this mean they wouldn't be replacing the original, or that the original wouldn't necessarily be "retired" from the game? I really hope that is the case! Speculate!
I saw some of those where he stated the question then answered it in a couple of places. Cant remeber where but he mentions them as being excerpts from the soon to be updated FAQ. Im guessing this and some other stuff will coincide with the release of the new forums. And he was teasing some new info.
Elrandir said:I think rewarding someone for making an alt is actually at the heart of the reason for implementing the Progeny system. The idea being so more people will replay old content.
You are partly correct. The reasoning is to give players incentive to replay through content. Whether that is through playing an alt or replaying through with the original character doesn't matter.
The issue is the required sacrifice. If there is little or no sacrifice and the reward is even a tiny bit good everyone will do it...or feel like they have to do it. If there is a substantial sacrifice then some people will opt out of partaking in the system because they don't want to make the sacrifice.
Are the Devs ok with the playerbase considering replaying through the levels using the progeny system as mandatory? I'm unsure. If the rewards are even a little bit good some people will consider it mandatory anyway. If the benefit is negligible than most people won't care and probably won't partake. It is a fine line to balance if they truely want it to be optional.
My opinion is, that for it to be considered optional by a majority of the playerbase, the sacrifice must be substantial.
I would like to hear the thoughts of people who have played through a similar system in games like DDO or KoL. I know the other thread had a lot of opinions from people who hadn't experienced a similar system in other games. Please don't knock it until you have tried it.
philo said:Elrandir said:I think rewarding someone for making an alt is actually at the heart of the reason for implementing the Progeny system. The idea being so more people will replay old content.
You are partly correct. The reasoning is to give players incentive to replay through content. Whether that is through playing an alt or replaying through with the original character doesn't matter.
The issue is the required sacrifice. If there is little or no sacrifice and the reward is even a tiny bit good everyone will do it...or feel like they have to do it. If there is a substantial sacrifice then some people will opt out of partaking in the system because they don't want to make the sacrifice.
Are the Devs ok with the playerbase considering replaying through the levels using the progeny system as mandatory? I'm unsure. If the rewards are even a little bit good some people will consider it mandatory anyway. If the benefit is negligible than most people won't care and probably won't partake. It is a fine line to balance if they truely want it to be optional.
My opinion is, that for it to be considered optional by a majority of the playerbase, the sacrifice must be substantial.
I would like to hear the thoughts of people who have played a through similar system in games like DDO or KoL. I know the other thread had a lot of opinions from people who hadn't experienced a similar system in other games. Please don't knock it until you have tried it.
"Are the Devs ok with the playerbase considering replaying through the levels using the progeny system as mandatory? I'm unsure. If the rewards are even a little bit good some people will consider it mandatory anyway. If the benefit is negligible than most people won't care and probably won't partake. It is a fine line to balance if they truely want it to be optional."
I'm not so sure that this is an accurate assessment. Would you consider raiding to be mandantory? If players would consider a small reward as mandantory, then they should definitely consider the big rewards from raiding as mandantory. As a min/maxer focused on end-game content, I've never really looked at raiding or any form of progression as "mandantory" ... it's just something that I enjoy doing, and the most consistent use of my time to accomplish my goals. In my opinion, there is an inherent sacrifice every time someone levels up an alt, the sacrifice being that they aren't spending more time on their main. Uptime on a max level character provides a much more reliable source of potential income in the game, too. Whenever you're working on an alt, that's taking away from time that you could be doing some high level content and earn some cash flow. Generally, the items obtainable during lower level content aren't worth nearly as much as the stuff you can get later in the game. Because of that, I really feel that any time spent on an alt is already a sacrifice. There are plenty of players out there who never roll an alt, at least not seriously. They might try something for a little while, and then realize how much more efficiently their time could be spent on a max level toon. If the Progeny system allows us to retain our original characters, the sacrifice of time is somewhat diminished, because now we realize that there is an even greater potential for max-level content in the future in the form of this slightly empowered alt. I can tell you for sure that I have 0 plans on playing an alt in Pantheon. I will be fully vested in my Ogre Warrior. If the Progeny system allows me to reroll a new, potentially stronger version of the same character, I would definitely take advantage of that. I'm sure there are plenty of other players just like me ... but it's just an example. I don't think the point of the Progeny system is to force people to make a sacrifice, it's to encourage them to reroll characters in an effort to keep a healthy influx of new players rolling through all of the different leveling tiers. This can help keep all zones relevant by ensuring that they have a revolving population of fresh players.
Beefcake said:Can you post the specific link? I cannot seem to find this article. I wanted to check the date to see how old it is.
01/31/2017
http://www.mmorpg.com/columns/top-5-pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen-features-were-really-excited-about-1000011516
oneADseven said:
I'm not so sure that this is an accurate assessment. Would you consider raiding to be mandantory? If players would consider a small reward as mandantory, then they should definitely consider the big rewards from raiding as mandantory.
Do we need to clarify the difference between something that is actually mandatory and something that is considered mandatory by the majority of players? I don't think so.
Of course there are those players who create their own reasons to play. Maybe social reasons or other reasons. I think it is safe to say that a majority of the players enjoy increasing the power of their character. If that is the case, then at some point, yes, raiding becomes mandatory. The other option is to retire that character and start fresh. (I am making the assumption of someone who actually plays a "normal/standard/average" etc amount of play time for conversations sake).
It's interesting that you use raiding as an example because just a couple hours ago I read a post by someone who stated: I don't raid so I don't care about that. I thought that was so strange that I stopped reading the thread and clicked on his name in order to view his profile to try to find out more about them. Of course it was private so I didn't learn anything.
Having played through similar systems to the Pantheon progeny system, if there is a benefit, and the sacrifice is only minimal (time etc) then yes, people end up considering it to be mandatory. Maybe the issue is with my wording of "majority" in reference to the playerbase? I think it is fairly easy for a majority to adopt a similar mindset...but if the wording was the issue and if wording it as "much of the playerbase" instead of "majority" is better then change it as far as the discussion goes. Whether it is 40 or 60 or 90% of the playerbase who thinks that way it is all the same point. Many people will consider it mandatory.
By forcing the players to make a sacrifice in order to attain that benefit it become more optional. At that point it is more of an individuals choice about whether they are willing to make the sacrifice in order to attain such a small benefit. It becomes less "mandatory" in the eyes of the players because they understand that not everyone is willing to make such a sacrifice.
philo said:oneADseven said:
I'm not so sure that this is an accurate assessment. Would you consider raiding to be mandantory? If players would consider a small reward as mandantory, then they should definitely consider the big rewards from raiding as mandantory.
Do we need to clarify the difference between something that is actually mandatory and something that is considered mandatory by the majority of players? I don't think so.
Of course there are those players who create their own reasons to play. Maybe social reasons or other reasons. I think it is safe to say that a majority of the players enjoy increasing the power of their character. If that is the case, then at some point, yes, raiding becomes mandatory. The other option is to retire that character and start fresh. (I am making the assumption of someone who actually plays a "normal/standard/average" etc amount of play time for conversations sake).
It's interesting that you use raiding as an example because just a couple hours ago I read a post by someone who stated: I don't raid so I don't care about that. I thought that was so strange that I stopped reading the thread and clicked on his name in order to view his profile to try to find out more about them. Of course it was private so I didn't learn anything.
Having played through similar systems to the Pantheon progeny system, if there is a benefit, and the sacrifice is only minimal (time etc) then yes, people end up considering it to be mandatory. Maybe the issue is with my wording of "majority" in reference to the playerbase? I think it is fairly easy for a majority to adopt a similar mindset...but if the wording was the issue and if wording it as "much of the playerbase" instead of "majority" is better then change it as far as the discussion goes. Whether it is 40 or 60 or 90% of the playerbase who thinks that way it is all the same point. Many people will consider it mandatory.
By forcing the players to make a sacrifice in order to attain that benefit it become more optional. At that point it is more of an individuals choice about whether they are willing to make the sacrifice in order to attain such a small benefit. It becomes less "mandatory" in the eyes of the players because they understand that not everyone is willing to make such a sacrifice.
Maybe a mandantory type feeling being associated with the Progeny system wouldn't be so bad. I really like the idea of why it's being implemented in the first place and if there was an incentive that really makes people want to partake in it, I would be happy with that. Even if it's a super watered down version of AA, I will always try to take advantage of every opportunity available to me. I understand what you mean now in saying how it could feel mandantory. I still think players are making a sacrifice when they spend time leveling again instead of taking advantage of the gold/loot potential to be had if they were spending time on a max level character. That's one of the main reasons some people don't play alts. I guess my main question is ... rather than thinking people should be forced to make a sacrifice, what's wrong with just encouraging them to participate? Why not just make it something fun? Why do I have to give up something else to experience Progeny? What type of sacrifice am I making when I raid? I'm just a little confused on how making a sacrifice correlates to people partaking in Progeny.
Maybe the dev team is ok with the players considering that participating in the progeny system, in order to attain the bonuses, is necessary? That is ok to. There is nothing wrong with that. If that is fine then there doesn't have to be any sacrifice. It is still theoretically optional even if players don't consider it to be...so they can still advertise it as an optional system.
Edit: I just typed this before I read your post and we basically said the same thing.
Because the progeny system is being said to be optional , if it ends up being considered to not be an option by the players, some people won't like it. But, you can't please all the people all the time.
It will put new players even further behind than normal though...before they can join in high end content they might have to play through the levels multiple times before they are accepted by other players. I guess that is no different than AAs. If there was enough of a sacrifice so that the players actually considered it to be optional then it would be more "friendly" to new players who could opt out.
Every time I read "mentor system" a think a baby kitten dies in horrible ways. But whenever you hear the phrase "just make an alt", a little boy gets his face licked by a happy puppy.
I guess you guys can decide which is better.
bigdogchris said:Every time I read "mentor system" a think a baby kitten dies in horrible ways. But whenever you hear the phrase "just make an alt", a little boy gets his face licked by a happy puppy.
I guess you guys can decide which is better.
I play with others, I play with my wife, and I play with my five kids. Each are different levels and varying playtimes/partner needs. Mentoring system works great. I can't keep up a main and 6 other alts to play at there levels.
Elrandir said:
Brad had mentioned previously in one of the long Progeny threads that the implementation was still TBD, and they were considering options that may not require sacrificing the original main.
Has he expounded on that? why can't you just make an alt if you want an alt? are they trying to make leveling up more fun by making it easier while you have that shiny big character on top who could probably jsut pl you anyways or what?
BeaverBiscuit said:Elrandir said:
Brad had mentioned previously in one of the long Progeny threads that the implementation was still TBD, and they were considering options that may not require sacrificing the original main.
Has he expounded on that? why can't you just make an alt if you want an alt? are they trying to make leveling up more fun by making it easier while you have that shiny big character on top who could probably jsut pl you anyways or what?
Not yet, and I have no idea where this system is on their priority list. I think it's less about people who "want an alt" though, and more about those like myself who traditionally don't want them. Again, I think it's about creating an incentive for people to return to lower level content so the world population ramains healthy in all level ranges. New content can then be added more evenly instead of all at the high end (Brad's talked a lot about horizontal, rather than vertical progression as a design goal). Powerleveling doesn't really factor in here--whether the toon was a progeny or an alt, they'd still be on the same account, so it isn't like you could have them both playing at the same time.
Elrandir said:
Not yet, and I have no idea where this system is on their priority list. I think it's less about people who "want an alt" though, and more about those like myself who traditionally don't want them. Again, I think it's about creating an incentive for people to return to lower level content so the world population ramains healthy in all level ranges. New content can then be added more evenly instead of all at the high end (Brad's talked a lot about horizontal, rather than vertical progression as a design goal). Powerleveling doesn't really factor in here--whether the toon was a progeny or an alt, they'd still be on the same account, so it isn't like you could have them both playing at the same time.
having a high lvl character means you can trade pls or even multibox, but I get what you are saying, thanks for the timely answer!
bigdogchris said:Every time I read "mentor system" a think a baby kitten dies in horrible ways. But whenever you hear the phrase "just make an alt", a little boy gets his face licked by a happy puppy.
I guess you guys can decide which is better.
Mentor system. Easy. Sorry, baby kitten. Why waste time getting an alt to a particular level so I can play with a friend, when I can just mentor them? Mentor systems are great features in games. What do you have against them?
Elrandir said:BeaverBiscuit said:Elrandir said:
Brad had mentioned previously in one of the long Progeny threads that the implementation was still TBD, and they were considering options that may not require sacrificing the original main.
Has he expounded on that? why can't you just make an alt if you want an alt? are they trying to make leveling up more fun by making it easier while you have that shiny big character on top who could probably jsut pl you anyways or what?
Not yet, and I have no idea where this system is on their priority list. I think it's less about people who "want an alt" though, and more about those like myself who traditionally don't want them. Again, I think it's about creating an incentive for people to return to lower level content so the world population ramains healthy in all level ranges. New content can then be added more evenly instead of all at the high end (Brad's talked a lot about horizontal, rather than vertical progression as a design goal). Powerleveling doesn't really factor in here--whether the toon was a progeny or an alt, they'd still be on the same account, so it isn't like you could have them both playing at the same time.
My thoughts as well. I have never been someone to roll alts because I'm usually completely vested in my main character. The Progeny system could end up being a really cool feature that encourages players like us to roll alts ... personally, I would just keep rolling a newer stronger version of the same character to obtain maximum benefit. I would love to see the 8'th generation of my Ogre Warrior. Other players will have different goals in mind, and that's fine. But for someone like me that focuses on a single character, my server will see a whole lot of me in all of the tiers of the game ... over and over and over again.
Bazgrim said:bigdogchris said:Every time I read "mentor system" a think a baby kitten dies in horrible ways. But whenever you hear the phrase "just make an alt", a little boy gets his face licked by a happy puppy.
I guess you guys can decide which is better.
Mentor system. Easy. Sorry, baby kitten. Why waste time getting an alt to a particular level so I can play with a friend, when I can just mentor them? Mentor systems are great features in games. What do you have against them?
The scenario without mentor system reminds me of the ugly duckling story ;'-(
With mentor system;
<3333
I like alts - a lot. I like baby kittens - a lot. My sister ran a cathouse for 10 years. I don't raid - yes there are more than a few of us that enjoy MMOs but don't raid. For whom the game doesn't *start* at maximum level it *ends* at maximum level.
My sister raised Siamese - what did you think I was saying about my own sister? ((slaps))