I can't trust someone that hides their gear.
As a raid leader, I would want to be able to inspect all gear. Often, people forget to remove appearance gear or certain resists. Or some tanks are wearing weird intelligence gear.
I am all fine with it being optional in game, but as a raid leader, people need to turn it on during the raids.
Overall, I don't care about privacy. But it doesn't bother me if someone does.
Beefcake said:I can't trust someone that hides their gear.
As a raid leader, I would want to be able to inspect all gear. Often, people forget to remove appearance gear or certain resists. Or some tanks are wearing weird intelligence gear.
I am all fine with it being optional in game, but as a raid leader, people need to turn it on during the raids.
Overall, I don't care about privacy. But it doesn't bother me if someone does.
You dont care about privacy, thats fine but others do...and they care a lot. On FV RP server to inspect someone without their permission was considered the utmost in rudeness. This is still a RP game as well as a Raid game or a DPS game or anything else. I have no problem with it being optional, but as someone said before that better include having an opt out for game websites that auto update gear and stuff
haha... I frequently RP, but not on an RP server for exactly that reason. I say you should roleplay if you find it fun... not if you don't. Sometimes you are feeling it.. sometimes you are not. But I sure as heck don't want rules telling me I HAVE to do or how I HAVE to go about doing it.
But regarding the inspect or no inspect thing... I don't give a rip, look me over. If you don't like my red thongs under my chainmail, that's your business.
I never understood how people could feel offended from someone inspecting their gear but to each their own. With saying that though, if I walk by you is it not possible for me to easily see most of your items anyways? Helmets, chest piece, boots, leggings, arm guards, weapons, cloaks, robes, etc are easily viewed. Jewelry and possibly an article or two might be hard to see upon a quick glance but for most part you really don't have to 'inspect' someone to see what they have. Now if someone is in your way while you are doing something then yeah that's a problem.
But I would suggest not having a message pop up on someone's screen telling them they are being inspected, I suppose include a toggle for players to permit others to inspect them (some games, use the anonymous feature for this where if you are anon then you can't be inspected), and make sure that players can't accidentally inspect others. This should pretty much cover everybody with inspecting each other.
I actually like having /anon to protect me from prying eyes mainly on my alts, as my gear doesn't determine my ability to control my character and I would rather be judged by my performance in groups, raids and interaction than by what random drops my characters have picked up and slapped on, if someone stopped you in the street and started removing your coat and putting their hands in your pockets to check what you had on you, I am sure you would have something to say about it, some people feel the same way in game, so allowing a toggle to block prying eyes is fine in my opinion, for those who don't care, they can peak and inspect all they like. ;)
Kilsin said:I actually like having /anon to protect me from prying eyes mainly on my alts, as my gear doesn't determine my ability to control my character and I would rather be judged by my performance in groups, raids and interaction than by what random drops my characters have picked up and slapped on, if someone stopped you in the street and started removing your coat and putting their hands in your pockets to check what you had on you, I am sure you would have something to say about it, some people feel the same way in game, so allowing a toggle to block prying eyes is fine in my opinion, for those who don't care, they can peak and inspect all they like. ;)
Love that..and if we can have anon even better. To be honest people inspecting and then criticizing your gear was ALSO annoying, yet another reason why I won't raid any more. LOL I do my thing along with my friends, game focussed not gear focussed, after all "them's just pixels" *wink*
kellindil said:This is one of those things I neve runderstood. Who do people care? I say make it possible, and don't alert the inspectee that they are being inspected.
This too but it still doesn't stop the disparaging remarks about your gear after they have inspected. I play how I play I am not out to impress anyone...if they don't like my gear, that's their problem.
CanadinaXegony said:kellindil said:This is one of those things I neve runderstood. Who do people care? I say make it possible, and don't alert the inspectee that they are being inspected.
This too but it still doesn't stop the disparaging remarks about your gear after they have inspected. I play how I play I am not out to impress anyone...if they don't like my gear, that's their problem.
It doesn't have to. How often does this actually happen? This entire thread is about the biggest non-issue I've ever seen.
If you're not out to impress anyone, that has nothing to do with inspect. A bad player with good gear will get criticized too, and there isn't anything you can do about that.
I remember in WoW, PUG raidleaders would ask ppl joining to line up at a certain place for instection and they would check their gear and based on this the player would get told no, gearscore too low, or sure yer in, gearscore is awesome. This became the standard for putting together raids, in guild or out of guild. While having certain gear does show the player has indeed experienced certain content, were they valuable to the raid in getting that content? Are they good raiders with good situational awareness, and the ability to follow direction? Not always sadly.
For example, my last guild on P99 raided every chance they got. Great bunch, good raid leading team etc. and as a mage I sent my pet, spent the mana and sometimes had lots of time to watch the rest of the raid while dropping mod rods and meditating and noticed more often than not, a TON of people including the self proclaimed "I'm never never afk" and "best raiders in the guild" were afk more often than not and doing literally nothing the majority of the time. Some of the pet classes would not even send pets or cast a single spell but all these AFK somehow magically were always there for the kill and the random loot rolls or to ask "does this raid give DKP?"
They all had great gear and could easily prove that they had indeed raided some very decent content, but were they good raiders? No, not imo. I'm sure they were if they applied themselves they could be but they were really just DKP sponges and item leeches on these raids, stacking up DKP with little or no real effort, letting everyone else do all the work but still getting same loot rolls and DKP as everyone else.
TLDR: Inspect is pretty cool imo and is a nice feature but as WoW and other MMO's have demostrated, gear and gearscore meeting requirements for the raid does not always mean you are getting a good raider or someone that will benefit the raid much at all unfortunately.
Liav said:CanadinaXegony said:kellindil said:This is one of those things I neve runderstood. Who do people care? I say make it possible, and don't alert the inspectee that they are being inspected.
This too but it still doesn't stop the disparaging remarks about your gear after they have inspected. I play how I play I am not out to impress anyone...if they don't like my gear, that's their problem.
It doesn't have to. How often does this actually happen? This entire thread is about the biggest non-issue I've ever seen.
If you're not out to impress anyone, that has nothing to do with inspect. A bad player with good gear will get criticized too, and there isn't anything you can do about that.
Happened quite a bit, or the newbies inspecting and begging for your weapons or gear...in the early days. Just annoying that's all. If we have anon..fine by me. I'll do that. And the inspect spam..and I mean spam..before they gave us a toggle to shut it down. Inspect me if you wish, but don't beg for gear and don't get me involved in some silly game about gear one upmanship. I don't care.
Portalgun said:I remember in WoW, PUG raidleaders would ask ppl joining to line up at a certain place for instection and they would check their gear and based on this the player would get told no, gearscore too low, or sure yer in, gearscore is awesome. This became the standard for putting together raids, in guild or out of guild. While having certain gear does show the player has indeed experienced certain content, were they valuable to the raid in getting that content? Are they good raiders with good situational awareness, and the ability to follow direction? Not always sadly.
This is a culture thing. People who do this are douche elitists. I would avoid anyone who did this sort of thing anyway. When I played WoW, my guild didn't do this. Everyone came as long as they were the right level to get in and such. The only reason I would ever inspect anyone is to see what that cool ass looking sword was called. There shouldn't be gear scores listed on anything anywhere. Gear scores have no place in this game as far as i'm concerned. Its about community and fun, not about ranking the highest and being the best. If you want to be one of those people, go play WoW. Thats what its made for.
EDIT: I screwed up the quote.
@Portalgun
Your post is a criticism of gearscore, not inspecting.
You also misunderstand gearscore. In some more modern games, you literally can not contribute to a raid without a certain quality of gear. The game will often prevent you from being able to hit bosses if you lack a certain quantity of a stat (in RIFT, it was +Hit or something, iirc).
You can't fault the leaders for denying people entry to a zone if their gear is so bad that they will mathematically contribute nothing to a raid. EQ is a very different game. Even so, you're not going to take a melee DPS with 20 MR to PUG raid a dragon. You're going to get Dragon Feared and you will literally contribute nothing regardless of how well you think of yourself as a player.
Skill isn't the only factor in games that use numbers to determine performance. Gear also can't make up for a lack of skill. The two are not necessarily interchangeable, still.
kellindil said:Its about community and fun, not about ranking the highest and being the best. If you want to be one of those people, go play WoW. Thats what its made for.
How about no. I'll be among the highest ranked/best in Pantheon, and there will be plenty of room for me to do so. To not have the mechanisms for that to happen defeats the entire purpose of the game for quite a lot of people. Pantheon isn't just one thing or another.
I'd like to see some form of 'intelligent' inspection where the details the inspector sees are dependent on certain attained knowledge, level, faction alignment, or even their relationship with the inspectee. Perhaps I'm injecting too much realism into high fantasy, but how exactly would I know what I was looking at if I wasn't familiar with the item itself, its legend, the markings of the artisan who forged it, or something else?
When it comes to player reputation and their place in the community, is it better to come away thinking "wow, that guy with those rare/cool items is a powerhouse" or "he's good because he has ABC weapon and XYZ armor"? It seems like having at least a little bit of mystery in the inspection process could bolster the sense of achievement of the player instead of reducing it to the accumulation of statistics.
@Liav:
Your post @ me just confuses me.
Please refrain from telling me what I said or intended and or telling me what I do or do not understand, I know what I wrote and from a reading and comprehension point of view, you missed the point entirely.
- Edit left an "I" out... ouch
CanadinaXegony said:kellindil said:This is one of those things I neve runderstood. Who do people care? I say make it possible, and don't alert the inspectee that they are being inspected.
This too but it still doesn't stop the disparaging remarks about your gear after they have inspected. I play how I play I am not out to impress anyone...if they don't like my gear, that's their problem.
Just ignore people's comments. No need to get offended or even listen. Too much care bea these days. OH NO! Some random person said something awful to me on the Internet. No one can offend you with your permission. Simple as that. You don't want to be offended, then don't be offended.
That's what /ignore is for.
kellindil said:Portalgun said:I remember in WoW, PUG raidleaders would ask ppl joining to line up at a certain place for instection and they would check their gear and based on this the player would get told no, gearscore too low, or sure yer in, gearscore is awesome. This became the standard for putting together raids, in guild or out of guild. While having certain gear does show the player has indeed experienced certain content, were they valuable to the raid in getting that content? Are they good raiders with good situational awareness, and the ability to follow direction? Not always sadly.
This is a culture thing. People who do this are douche elitists. I would avoid anyone who did this sort of thing anyway. When I played WoW, my guild didn't do this. Everyone came as long as they were the right level to get in and such. The only reason I would ever inspect anyone is to see what that cool ass looking sword was called. There shouldn't be gear scores listed on anything anywhere. Gear scores have no place in this game as far as i'm concerned. Its about community and fun, not about ranking the highest and being the best. If you want to be one of those people, go play WoW. Thats what its made for.
EDIT: I screwed up the quote.
In EQ2, our raid didn't care about your gear, unless you were not pulling your weight. Then, your gear WILL be checked to see if it's just the gear (curable) or the player (often not curable).
You can claim to raid for years, have all the achievements, but when you are found to be wearing gear totally not suited for your role, a talking to will commence.
Beefcake said:CanadinaXegony said:kellindil said:This is one of those things I neve runderstood. Who do people care? I say make it possible, and don't alert the inspectee that they are being inspected.
This too but it still doesn't stop the disparaging remarks about your gear after they have inspected. I play how I play I am not out to impress anyone...if they don't like my gear, that's their problem.
Just ignore people's comments. No need to get offended or even listen. Too much care bea these days. OH NO! Some random person said something awful to me on the Internet. No one can offend you with your permission. Simple as that. You don't want to be offended, then don't be offended.
That's what /ignore is for.
I don't get offended, I get annoyed because they're wasting my time. And I do use ignore.
Portalgun said:@Liav:
Your post @ me just confuses me.
Please refrain from telling me what I said or intended and or telling me what I do or do not understand, I know what I wrote and from a reading and comprehension point of view, you missed the point entirely.
- Edit left an "I" out... ouch
I was criticizing your post for not actually presenting a solid argument against the inspect feature, and instead talking about something else entirely. I comprehended your post fine, I just didn't find it particularly relevant.
Sorry if I offended you, but my post still stands. Inspect or no inspect, gearscore is irrelevant and going into a raid with terrible gear can't always be compensated for by being an amazing player.
I never cared either way, I only inspected a few people, and usually that was only because I was curious what some cool item was and they were AFK or not answering my /say or /tell asking them personally.
People inspecting me got to see my awesome bronze armor, rusty sword and foot wrappings. On a good day they might catch me using a fine steel sword :)
Liav said:Portalgun said:@Liav:
Your post @ me just confuses me.
Please refrain from telling me what I said or intended and or telling me what I do or do not understand, I know what I wrote and from a reading and comprehension point of view, you missed the point entirely.
- Edit left an "I" out... ouch
I was criticizing your post for not actually presenting a solid argument against the inspect feature, and instead talking about something else entirely. I comprehended your post fine, I just didn't find it particularly relevant.
Sorry if I offended you, but my post still stands. Inspect or no inspect, gearscore is irrelevant and going into a raid with terrible gear can't always be compensated for by being an amazing player.
I was not aware that my post needed criticizing, nor that we were here to present a solid argument for not having the inspect feature. I thought this was a dev forum where people can present whatever opinion they wish on whatever topic they want to address or have concerns about provided it is positive, constructive and/or not toxic. Okay though, fair enough.
My posting also still stands, for if you read deep enough into what I wrote you will come to the conclusion that Inspect is really just a fluff mechanic that doesn't really tell all that much of a tale of truth with regards to much of anything. It can help come to certain conclusions, but it is not an absolute and once again, is a fluff mechanic imo.
I hope this clears up any confusion, and no worries, I'm not offended at all. I was just surprised and confused by your post
Personally, I want to see inspect in the game. One of the things I enjoyed most in EQ1 was the sheer creativity and often comedic value of what people write in their inspection box about their character, and it was nice not to have to bother a players with "I like that graphic on your sword, and want one for my warrior, what's it called?" and just inspect instead, or politely ask if they mind if you inspect. 90% or more of the people were glad you asked first and were happy to have you inspect.