Nuemcy said:Anyone like the idea of first to tag a mob gets an 'advantage' in regards to % damage being done? (note: not actual damage)
Say a multiplier that would allow for fluctuation in regards to various things (ie; level of those doing damage, level of monster, etc). Kind of think of it as a xp buff against people agro, heh
Say a level 15 character is fighting higher level mobs and con'ing them red/yellow etc and here comes along a level 20 character to grief the lower level player and KS all the mobs.
With the given scenario, the modifier would balance the scales a little, so this wouldn't be as easy for the higher level character to grief, if the lower level character still applied the necessary qualities of a good player to out dual the higher level character.
just a thought I had regarding previous encounters :)
I personally don't like encounter locking, it's stops me from getting help when I need it the most or helping those who took on more than they could handle and need assistance. Plus all the other variant issues mentioned about reputation and the like are a sign of a healthy community in my eyes.
No. Not a good idea.
KSing actually needs to be in the game.
Nimryl said:Personally I feel that there should be two types of tagging.
One for normal NPC's + Named and one for bosses.
Normal+Named: whoever does 50%+ of the damage gets it (aka normal eq rule). This would allow classic "power leveling"/gearing. Which is apart of the EQ culture. <3
Bosses: differently due to content denial via either "elitist hardcores" (blocking guilds on purpose) or just guilds simply being greedy with gear (to sell)... Once a raid or group/whatever kills an NPC (even if they log out), they're tagged for the kill for a certain amount of duration (worked out by VR; but atleast greater than the bosses respawn timer). While they're "tagged for the kill" (account based) on the boss, they're unable to kill, assist/help, or heal other players engaging it (as in nothing will work on them or the boss) and the loot table is ofc disabled for them too. This would allow other's to kill the boss in a natural rotation which would be far fairer on everyone on the server without using instances/hand holding/drama.
I can definitely be on board with this idea.
The 50% rule is completely exploitable. Any guild that wants to lock down raid targets simply needs to have more people and they win. Or even worse, you get the 12+ mage boxxers/RMT'rs who want to lock down raid targets to sell the loot. This was the whole reason Sony had to change the rules on the TLP's to make pets not hold threat over a player. Mage boxxers were obliterating targets and controlling all of the spawns
Nuemcy said:Anyone like the idea of first to tag a mob gets an 'advantage' in regards to % damage being done? (note: not actual damage)
Say a multiplier that would allow for fluctuation in regards to various things (ie; level of those doing damage, level of monster, etc). Kind of think of it as a xp buff against people agro, heh
Say a level 15 character is fighting higher level mobs and con'ing them red/yellow etc and here comes along a level 20 character to grief the lower level player and KS all the mobs.
With the given scenario, the modifier would balance the scales a little, so this wouldn't be as easy for the higher level character to grief, if the lower level character still applied the necessary qualities of a good player to out dual the higher level character.
just a thought I had regarding previous encounters :)
I personally don't like encounter locking, it's stops me from getting help when I need it the most or helping those who took on more than they could handle and need assistance. Plus all the other variant issues mentioned about reputation and the like are a sign of a healthy community in my eyes.
I like this idea myself. As you stated I do not want to stop people from helping, and I want to help others.
This 50 percent thing lead to massive exploiting by people in several MMO. As for the whole arguement of reputation is more important for some people thats true. But guess what if you are the best tank on the server you could Kill jesus and people would beg you to join there groups. It always happens reputation only hurts the weak the best don't.
Easy fix first person to damage locks the encounter to the group. No out of group help out of group healing etc etc. Otherwise you will have lvl 50 helpiung there level 25. The group will ge tthe mob down to 48 percent and the max level raid player will one shot it. Or the maxed healer will heal a group of lvl 10's hes friends with.
Max63 said:I like this idea myself. As you stated I do not want to stop people from helping, and I want to help others.
Thanks! Max63
Yeah, to me it just makes sense to give a little 'boost' of chance to the player that has the balls to tag a mob first and start a fight to get the credit and loot instead of another higher level player coming along and just out damage someone else. Taking no risk and in essence using the other player as bait to get unearned credit/loot.
This idea, in theory, would instead have the KS player 'help' instead of steal more often than not.
All depending on how the modifiers where applied/scaled for the encounter
There could also be and added chance roll of not helping at all or very little so it's not an unfair advantage in anyway
Kalgore said:Easy fix first person to damage locks the encounter to the group. No out of group help out of group healing etc etc. Otherwise you will have lvl 50 helpiung there level 25. The group will ge tthe mob down to 48 percent and the max level raid player will one shot it. Or the maxed healer will heal a group of lvl 10's hes friends with.
Not so easy and too limiting in practice, more like lazy fix. It doesn't lend itself to the ideas and tenets of this game
The ideas you present of 'power leveling' other lower level players needs to be addressed differently and is being looked at from what I've read so far
I can think of examples from my time in hunting in Crushbone and being able to help other players there who got into trouble. They, then in turn, helped me out when I would get to many Orcs tagging me. I made many many friends in the entrance to Crushbone and in that zone. It is where the community aspect really came home to me and would not have been able to come about organically in anyway if the encounters were locked.
This is where group fighting skills developed for me as with these types of scenarios I could test my strength with other players and learn what they would/could do and what my role could be. I learned how to be polite and work with other players, we talked and it felt like community.
I could pull any number of Orcs from the trains running though that zone after I got stronger. I could then follow it to the zone tunnel and either stand and fight with the other players (helping lower levels learn the zone entrance) meditating there or zone because it was just too much. That was a blast and wouldn't happen with encounter locking...
Kalgore said:This 50 percent thing lead to massive exploiting by people in several MMO. As for the whole arguement of reputation is more important for some people thats true. But guess what if you are the best tank on the server you could Kill jesus and people would beg you to join there groups. It always happens reputation only hurts the weak the best don't.
Easy fix first person to damage locks the encounter to the group. No out of group help out of group healing etc etc. Otherwise you will have lvl 50 helpiung there level 25. The group will ge tthe mob down to 48 percent and the max level raid player will one shot it. Or the maxed healer will heal a group of lvl 10's hes friends with.
This is so fake and goes against the open virtual world that made EQ special. I'd rather deal with the occassional jerk than have the game be limited from the outset.
Kalgore said:So exploiting mob kills is the way to go.
Amsai said: I agree with Kalgore 100%. It should be first come first serve. Competitive. No intrrference from outside. If you have the stones to start it, then youd better be prepared to finish it. And if you cant do it on your own, then you dont deserve the kill let alone the loot. There needs to be challenge. No free rides, no dumbing down of the challenge. This is what I mean when Ive said in the past not to have community or immersion at the expense of sound gane design.
So you can't help anyone or get any help.
To me that is a horrible overreaction.
Amsai said: Horrible? No just sensable. Now I will clarify. This makes it a decision when the mob pops do you have all your people? Do you have enough to get the job done? Do you gamble on a a few if not everyone is present. Does that other group have enough? Are they gonna pull soon? All good things and makes you really really think about it before you just jump in. Making the adrenaline of the claim that much more exciting. The only other way is have it be like what you guys are saying, but if you truly want it completely open world with nothing "fake" is PvP! Because hey we cant have artificial mechanics riiiiiiiight?
So when you're running through the forest and the sun sets and a ghoul spawns on top of you and roots you and you start attacking it, the encounter is locked and even though it's going to kill you nobody can help you kill it? Seriously? That is a cure worse than the disease. Locking normal mob encounters is a dreadful idea that will ruin the sense of being in a virtual world where you can interact with anything.
This kind of tagging is going to lead directly to griefing and exloiting itself. Remember EQ bards rounding up every mob in the zone to kite? If there are dynamics in this game like that, people are going to be able to lock mob after mob after mob to themselves, denying other people the ability to kill them. What about a player getting to a zone well ahead of his group and tagging a named mob and then running around in circles for 20 minutes before his group shows up to kill it. That's absurd and exploitative. If you think the 50% dynamic was "exploited" can you not imagine how badly this ONE attack tagging/locking will be? This is also completely anti social and flies in the face of a core tenet of this game.
Amsai said: Sorry additional clarification. I was talking about Boss Monsters really. For nomal/xp/farming. I still think the first claim system would be better but not nearly as concerned. And I never experienced frequent or masive asshatery from most people 99.9 percent of the time for normal mobs. This was almost exclusive to Endgame. Plus first come first serve worked fine in XI. They had programming to take care of Bard shannanigans.And its no more anti social than competitive mobs in a PvE game. And as I said if you dont like the artificial things then there shouldnt be PvE servers either. Just make it all completely open world and 100% PvP
That definitely clarifies things, thank you. I don't have an opinion on raid encounters really because they are a different can of worms. If we're talking Shiny Brass Halbert kill stealing, I think it's something we just have to live with.
Amsai said:And as I said if you dont like the artificial things then there shouldnt be PvE servers either. Just make it all completely open world and 100% PvP
That's terribly extreme. There is a solution, the aforementioned 50.000001%.
The game should avoid things of an artificial nature in general wherever possible. There's a lot of fun in naturally occurring, organic outcomes.
Vade said:Amsai said:And as I said if you dont like the artificial things then there shouldnt be PvE servers either. Just make it all completely open world and 100% PvPThat's terribly extreme. There is a solution, the aforementioned 50.000001%.
The game should avoid things of an artificial nature in general wherever possible. There's a lot of fun in naturally occurring, organic outcomes.
Exactly. Good and bad both are what make magic.
I dont care about trash mobs any named mob that drops nice loot and and raid mobs needs to have a safeguard for not being exploited by having more people then the mob requires or out of group healing. Otherwise you will see guilds with a group of healers out of the group spam healing the tank dumbing down how hard the mob might be.
I don't see any value in locking a mob. I would say simply, the first one who hits it gets the credit for it. That method is pretty fair and even tho you may get the occasional jerk who will sneak a hit in before you do, it will limit mob-stealing that does tend to be a problem in MMOs.
I also think that anyone should be able to damage the mob etc, but the first hit gets the credit and experience. When in a group then the xp is distributed between the party as is the loot.
Baldrith said:I don't see any value in locking a mob. I would say simply, the first one who hits it gets the credit for it. That method is pretty fair and even tho you may get the occasional jerk who will sneak a hit in before you do, it will limit mob-stealing that does tend to be a problem in MMOs.
I also think that anyone should be able to damage the mob etc, but the first hit gets the credit and experience. When in a group then the xp is distributed between the party as is the loot.
How does that limit kill stealing? If anything it makes it substantially easier. An established group could be on a camp for hours and someone else could come in and tag a mob and it's theirs? That'd be way easier to exploit than having to do 50+% of the damage. Again, the solution seems worse than the problem here.
as I stated...
"The idea of first to tag a mob gets an 'advantage' in regards to % damage being done? (note: not actual damage) (this implies not having to reach 50.000001%)
Say a multiplier that would allow for fluctuation in regards to various things (ie; level of those doing damage, level of monster, etc(edit: or what have you to the particular encounter)). Kind of think of it as a xp buff against people agro, heh
Say a level 15 character is fighting higher level mobs and con'ing them red/yellow etc and here comes along a level 20 character to grief the lower level player and KS all the mobs.
With the given scenario, the modifier would balance the scales a little, so this wouldn't be as easy for the higher level character to grief, if the lower level character (edit: or group) still applied the necessary qualities of a good player to out dual the higher level character.
(Edit) Allowing the lower level player to be 'buffed' and/or get extra credit towards the kill, instead of having to do exactly 50.00001% of damage.
I personally don't like encounter locking, it's stops me from getting help when I need it the most or helping those who took on more than they could handle and need assistance..."
This would also apply to higher level mobs/named and include the modification of how the mob acts to multiple players/groups attempting to kill it, depending on scaling/weight of multipliers to the 'original' tag and can be scaled to if group or solo player.
This can also have an added rate of not applying as well, say 'fizzle' rate, or other decaying effect to make sure it isn't overly unfair