AgentGenX said:I don't want micro transactions either. Not for the same reason though...... I don't want to see all kinds of stupid mounts, stupid costumes, and everyone running around with stupid non-combat pets.
Oh that's one of my reasons too. I'm just trying to look at it from a business perspective which would be more impactful with developers. As a player I think that everyone having "leet mounts, pets and illusions" just waters down something that should be special and rare.
Once everyone has it, it's no longer cool or unique.
In all honesty, it will come down to logical means.
More than the price of monthly subscription to a game world, should be the price to make a Character. This serves many purposes and worth discussing in the future, but rather evident. But, as it stands now MMO are extremely cheap form of entertainment, so expect the prices to go up.
Pantheon Game = $75 bucks (2 months free)
Pantheon Collectors edition = $150 bucks (4 months free)
Year subscription to Pantheon = $240
Dullahan said:Oh my, its this thread again.
Last time this conversation ended up causing panick and trolling across other forums on the internet. Lets not do that again. They intend for it to be $15 sub like every other game. Yes, we know everyone here is willing to pay more for our dream game, but lets not be irrational. It would be a big risk to raise the price, especially for an indie game. It won't even matter how good the game is, the higher price tag alone could have serious negative ramifications.
haha yes memories....
Anyway just to throw in my opinion - love sub model - Nothing but sub!!!!!!! I would gladly pay 50$ a month if its good - but do not panic VR wont go that high - they said it would be a conventional sub price.
Quality..
I think that once Pantheon is known, and the general populace see there are Guides and Game Masters in game (and often role playing)... that these outsiders will see the flare of the oldschool community and see how the servers are being policed and game mastered... & they will opt in for the $20/month ($240/year) it takes to run an adult driven communal online high fantasy game. I have stated my preference several times, and stated I do not think VRI needs to worry about a release date. I believe, that if Brad & Co take their time (2018 release), they can ask for $300/year.. to play & have a role and say(imprint) in their breathing world. ($500/year ..?)
People & players must stay behind the pay wall. This game must remain premium, it services must remain premium. I agree with many, and in logic. You must buy the game, to have an account. So.. (??)
as an example:
$100 for game + $20/month ? (one character per account)
vs/or
$200 for game + $15/month ? (one character per account)
*Which one would the hacker choose, if there was risk?
Coincidentally, the initial cost has to be high, you MUST be certain you want to play, want to compete and to test yourself. If that is truly your goal and like-minded, then create a Character that is free to be ridiculed by the mass public. You are buying a role.. as a character.. in the movie... called Terminus.
How do you fit in?
It is hard to put crack down. Visionary Realms ftw..
Well I do have to pay twice because my wife plays but I'll pay whatever the subscription fee is because I just don't want a free to play game that is basically pay to win. In EQ if you saw someone with Rubicite, Totemic, A Strength of Grodan or JBoots you know they earned them. Rare drops or no drop items but they were available to everyone you just had to go get them. Pay to win the game companies always give in, cool red armor people wine they can't get company puts in market a few months later and no everyone has it. Please Please Please don't do free to play $10 to $30 subscription and frequent expansions like once a year with meaningful content, more difficulty and enough side stuff to do (collections, pets, armor drops, etc) to keep me occupied until the expansion.
Agree^... Free is not premium.
In the MMORPG world... Free!! is for failed games that need revenue and the Developers attempt to suck in masses of adolecent youth, who can not afford anything but free. These Devs then pit adolecent egos & testorone up against each other and offer a "item mall" as means to get back at, or show others they are important. These for sale "items" are meant to bolster these youthful players egos... and add a source of revenue for the Developers, for their failed & dieing game.
In essense; Free = children's game.
I personally prefer the monthly sub based model. FTP with an in game store just doesnt do it for me and seems to attract a steady stream of turnover players, there for a month or two then out, killing any continuity of community. FTP models dont kill it for me, but I prefer the monthly sub.
Garmr
Any model is fine by me. I still believe a F2P game could be made without being P2W or short-lived, it's just that it did not happen yet. There hasn't been a good, lasting MMORPG (IMHO) since before the F2P movement anyway, so to me it feels like a case of correlation and not causation.
I've said all of this before but it does come up often, so I don't mind re-stating this when necessary:
First, no F2P/pay-to-win/cash shops. Period.
We will either use the good old sub model, or possibly a modular model, where you pay for the game, then each expansion, etc. We're not ready to set that in stone.
As for what the sub would be, the plan is the traditional $15 a month. Yes, we have talked with each other and the community and I think a lot of players, assuming we do make a great game, would pay more. And maybe we do explore premium servers. It's all possible. But, in general, if we go subs, to play Pantheon after the trial period, it would be $15 a month.
Amsai said:Aradune, could you expand upon the premium servers a little? Just curious what kind of thing that would entail?
Not ready to yet, sorry. We need to get a regular server up and populated and in beta, etc. etc. That's where my focus is right now. Premium servers, alternate rule-set servers, etc. I think could be cool, assuming we do it right and make it worth it, but please be patient and let us focus on the core game for now :)
Aradune said:Amsai said:Aradune, could you expand upon the premium servers a little? Just curious what kind of thing that would entail?
Not ready to yet, sorry. We need to get a regular server up and populated and in beta, etc. etc.
DL link?
Brad,
Again, speaking from the past on threads long forgotten, I think you can easily get $20/month ($240/year) @ 500k subs, within the first year. But @ $15/month ($180/year), I feel that Visionary Realms will sell themsevles too short, & have to open up too many starting servers & grow too fast... and have too much noise from some extra ~200k more noobs who are just not yet ready for Pantheon. (I am being conservative with my numbers)
Point being, is that Visionary Realms should be thinking and leaning towards "Premium Servers" as their niche. Part of their mantra.
There is not a game today... that has active Guides and GM in them, like early EQ had.
I think VRi has a chance to set a new standard in the MMORPG arena and offer Pantheon as "premium". The over all cost to Visionary Realms would be nominal to have a GMs & Guide program again. If that is unfeasable as a whole. Then at least some "Premium Servers" based on the concept of premium role playing experience, where your Character is assured free play. At a cost of +$5/month more. ($180/year -vs- $240/year ..?)
So, to the end user is paying $60 more a year... To KNOW you have active Gm & Guides in game.. and be called upon when you find a gold farmer, or gold spammer..? And/Or, servers where bored GM & Guides take over npcs in the wilderness and roleplay with them, taking a snake into town/market and biting people for 1pt of dmg piosning them, etc..
A game world, where a Game Master (& Guides) actively participating on that server. (Personally, I believe this is a tenent of MMORPG long lost forgotten.)
This discussion really ties into the 'does a core group of gamers really change or go away' thread because one of the changes I've noticed over the years is a dramatic increase in the willingness of the MMO playerbase to pay for premium service. In fact, there is growing demand for it.
Who remembers when EQ1 offered the premium server (Stormhammer was it?) which had dedicated guides and GM, GM events, and a bunch of perks for twice the cost. There was an uproar from the community over it. Now though? With that generation of players now in their 40's, with a lot of disposable income and the understanding that you get what you pay for..and by paying more you get more.
Hieromonk said:Brad,
Again, speaking from the past on threads long forgotten, I think you can easily get $20/month ($240/year) @ 500k subs, within the first year. But @ $15/month ($180/year), I feel that Visionary Realms will sell themsevles too short, & have to open up too many starting servers & grow too fast... and have too much noise from some extra ~200k more noobs who are just not yet ready for Pantheon. (I am being conservative with my numbers)
Point being, is that Visionary Realms should be thinking and leaning towards "Premium Servers" as their niche. Part of their mantra.
There is not a game today... that has active Guides and GM in them, like early EQ had.
I think VRi has a chance to set a new standard in the MMORPG arena and offer Pantheon as "premium". The over all cost to Visionary Realms would be nominal to have a GMs & Guide program again. If that is unfeasable as a whole. Then at least some "Premium Servers" based on the concept of premium role playing experience, where your Character is assured free play. At a cost of +$5/month more. ($180/year -vs- $240/year ..?)
So, to the end user is paying $60 more a year... To KNOW you have active Gm & Guides in game.. and be called upon when you find a gold farmer, or gold spammer..? And/Or, servers where bored GM & Guides take over npcs in the wilderness and roleplay with them, taking a snake into town/market and biting people for 1pt of dmg piosning them, etc..
A game world, where a Game Master (& Guides) actively participating on that server. (Personally, I believe this is a tenent of MMORPG long lost forgotten.)
You may very well be right. And if we did charge more, that's what we would do with it -- make sure your money is spent on making a better game for you, a better experience, better CS, etc.
But at this point, the plan is (for regular servers at least) to charge $15. I think it would be foolish of us to proclaim 'we are a premium MMO and therefore we are going to charge everyone more!'
I do like the idea of being thought of as a premium MMO developer -- but I think we have to earn that respect first.
I would definitely pay 5 more a month for a server with old style EQ type benefits like guides and GMs in game, and enforcing stuff like RP naming to avoid crap like D00dz0rz the Azzblaaztrr and to blast spammers, gold farmers, etc.
There is the idea. $15 a month for normal servers with minimal Guides/GM. - Ticket / Petition services.
Premium server @ $25 a month where there is ALWAYS a GM's and Guides on for nearly immediate service instead of Ticket service.
I will pay more for a server with more active GMs and guides. (policing)
Just a thought.
100 or $200 for a game plus a monthly subscription?? Are you guys trying to kill this game?? what ever happened to $60 for the game and $15 monthly Making a game supe3r expensive doesnt make it a premium or better game it makes it a ripoff. by the logic of some if someone cant afford to shell out 200 for a video game they dont deserve to play an real Oldschool like MMO thats stupid and removes millions from a fanbase.
I make a healtyh 6 figure salary and even I would question the value of spending that. I'm also against a premium server there should be only the needed servers to run he population and thats it. needed and they should all have the same ruleset (Please add a PVP server) You can have the same GM poilce several servers at once logging in and out and still achieve greatness.
Amsai said: Im guessing modules would be like you buy the base game then have content packs like LOTRO or DLC? Im not a fan but not because of money. I would be afraid with a bunch of different packs. Different people have access to different things and makes it difficult to group up for specific content. I guess the same could be said for expansions, but in my experience thats not usually the case. I think in 10 years of FFXI I only encountered it 2 times. But my brother said it was fairly reghlar in LOTRO. Maybe Im off on what he means by modules though.
Im hoping they mean like a yearly or by-yearly Expansion pack. If you buy it you gain access to new levels and zones but if you dont you are stuck with the old content and can still group with people just not in new content.
For the right game I would pay 50-100 a month easily. However I want others to play with, so a lower price is needed. However I would bet that 20-25 a month would easily be doable by a lot of others. Maybe multiple accounts per person/family could get a discount as well.