Mephiles said:Medjai said:I am not a fan of this system. I do want to group with my friends, but I always end up with a fwe friends that can only play 1-2 days a week and they always want me to come group with them doing low level stuff.
If I want to group with them, I should just have a 2nd or 3rd character that can group with them. EQ2 had mentoring, The lev 50 has this awesome gear and even mentored down to lev 5, the higher level would just 1 shot mobs. It was boring as boring could get.
If people don't NEED to group and level, you will end up with a WoW community that is a bunch of D heads that just talk smack. This game is supposed to be about the adventure and being social, grouping.
Keep it that way.
I Do support twinking like EQ1. I had a cloak of flames for my lev 20 iksar monk. it was awesome fun!
That isn't inherently a problem of having a mentoring or level sync system but is a problem of that SPECIFIC implimentation of it. In ffxi this did not happen, when people were synced down they were set to roughly an average geared player of the level they synced to. They most definitely did not break grouping mechanics and while you may have lost a little bit of power relative to what you would be at the same level if you wore the best gear you would still do ok (and could get around this if you wore level appropriate gear anyway).
Even if they mentor your level down, I still don't want a mentor system. Get a group, make some friends, level the character, and have fun.
They keep claiming this game is a EQ1 and Vanguard baby. Too me, Vanguard 'starter area' was a wow-like hand holding with linear questing and you got lev 2 just by killing 5 mobs and turning in 5 quests.
They even had the Red dash in the compass to show you where to go next.... Don't want my game to be that game. I hope this game favores the Father of games (EQ) heavily.
Medjai said:Mephiles said:Medjai said:I am not a fan of this system. I do want to group with my friends, but I always end up with a fwe friends that can only play 1-2 days a week and they always want me to come group with them doing low level stuff.
If I want to group with them, I should just have a 2nd or 3rd character that can group with them. EQ2 had mentoring, The lev 50 has this awesome gear and even mentored down to lev 5, the higher level would just 1 shot mobs. It was boring as boring could get.
If people don't NEED to group and level, you will end up with a WoW community that is a bunch of D heads that just talk smack. This game is supposed to be about the adventure and being social, grouping.
Keep it that way.
I Do support twinking like EQ1. I had a cloak of flames for my lev 20 iksar monk. it was awesome fun!
That isn't inherently a problem of having a mentoring or level sync system but is a problem of that SPECIFIC implimentation of it. In ffxi this did not happen, when people were synced down they were set to roughly an average geared player of the level they synced to. They most definitely did not break grouping mechanics and while you may have lost a little bit of power relative to what you would be at the same level if you wore the best gear you would still do ok (and could get around this if you wore level appropriate gear anyway).
Even if they mentor your level down, I still don't want a mentor system. Get a group, make some friends, level the character, and have fun.
They keep claiming this game is a EQ1 and Vanguard baby. Too me, Vanguard 'starter area' was a wow-like hand holding with linear questing and you got lev 2 just by killing 5 mobs and turning in 5 quests.
They even had the Red dash in the compass to show you where to go next.... Don't want my game to be that game. I hope this game favores the Father of games (EQ) heavily.
How is using a level sync system not "Get a group, make some friends, level the character, and have fun."? It is litterally the same thing as getting a party together without the sync system only it allows you to party with people of any level range.
They also emphasise that this is a new game, not an eq vanguard baby. It is expected to be in a similar vein but it is not directly trying to copy either of those.
Krixus said:It is a completely artificial mechanic, like instancing, that breaks immersion. I'm no role player, but this just screams "lowest common denominator" to me. This is supposed to be a simulated world. Ever invite friends out to a nice dinner and they can't go because they didn't work hard, or are still in school, or whatever, and they can't afford it?
There are ways to play with your friends. If one of you is in school, or a graveyard network admin who has unfettered use of the companies interwebs, and the other is a mother of 2 who works full time, spin up an alt that you only play with her when she has time.
Don't sacrifice the integrity of the world and hence, the game, with this kind of thing. /deadhorse
It is not like instancing (though I personally find that instancing is overly demonized here, it works fine if used sparingly and can do certain things that purely non-instanced cannot do as well).
How is it any more artificial than for example, bind points are? Using a spell to set a spot you can appear so you can be closer to where you want to be. How is something like using a spell to sync down any less immersive than that?
Mephiles said:Rubezahl said:My personal thoughts on mentoring and powerleveling...
I don't like mentoring because my personal opinion is that causes multiple problems. First being that there are people out there that could be grouping with you, but you leveling with a 50 means that is one less person for them to group with.
Second is the way that it eliminates the need to make new friends, or at least be civil to your fellow inhabitants.
Lastly, gaining levels too quickly leads to level 60's that have never used some of their spells.... and thereby don't often know how to play their class entirely to its peak efficiency. It leads to looking up a rotation of four or five buttons and... not caring to actually knowing the intricacies of your class.
I don't understand most of this perspective. Starting with the first thing (that it removes people from the grouping pool), how is that possibly the case?....
Finally the point of leveling too fast resulting in unskilled players....
If you as a 50 mentor down to level 20 and fill a group spot, that is one less group spot for actual level 20's. The problem isn't usually a lack of player's, it's a lack of groups. How many times have you spent with all camps taken in Oasis, waiting for a spot to open up?
Oh one just did... nevermind he's going to get one of his lvl 50 buddies to fill it instead.
I'm not saying this will always be a problem, but it will definitely be at launch. I always laughed at the level racing guys that burned through games and then complain because their is nothing to do cause the rest of the population is still playing content. Mentoring and the like is something games add when their player base is largely at end game and there are not the people there to group with. If there are people physically playing at those levels, go play with them.
Last about the point about unskilled players... If it somehow brought the player down to a level that he only had the skills available that a person his level would, and his gear is of the same quality as his partners, yes. I understand you say that FF did that, but I can't attest to that because I never did anything in FF with that mechanic. However I can say that EVERY game that I have played with this mechanic, has resulted in one person basically carrying the group and destroying everything in an effort for the lower level person to catch up quickly and they can do same level content together. Heck SWTOR (which I realize is borderline a 1P game) makes it so you could basically level to 50 and never kill a mob that is higher than level 12.
I love to play with my friends too. I'll twink em, buff em, and run behind them and make sure that they stay alive (which is boring as heck we all agree)... and there are mechanics where it can work, I don't doubt. I just remember meeting a lot of people I never would have met if I had played with the same friends regardless of what level they were. The fact that we had to split up led us to having a very social experience that we have not been able to replicate in other games... games which, coincidentally, all had mentor mechanics.
-=EDIT=-
I also agree that instancing is overly demonized if it is used to solve population issues.
I think it deserves every negative comment it gets in the "every group gets its own little dungeon" concept.
-=END EDIT=-
Mephiles said:Krixus said:It is a completely artificial mechanic, like instancing, that breaks immersion. I'm no role player, but this just screams "lowest common denominator" to me. This is supposed to be a simulated world. Ever invite friends out to a nice dinner and they can't go because they didn't work hard, or are still in school, or whatever, and they can't afford it?
There are ways to play with your friends. If one of you is in school, or a graveyard network admin who has unfettered use of the companies interwebs, and the other is a mother of 2 who works full time, spin up an alt that you only play with her when she has time.
Don't sacrifice the integrity of the world and hence, the game, with this kind of thing. /deadhorse
It is not like instancing (though I personally find that instancing is overly demonized here, it works fine if used sparingly and can do certain things that purely non-instanced cannot do as well).
How is it any more artificial than for example, bind points are? Using a spell to set a spot you can appear so you can be closer to where you want to be. How is something like using a spell to sync down any less immersive than that?
I feel like there's some common sense missing. You can't just use "it's magic" to explain away everything. Some things are necessary, some things work in the lore and mythos, and some things don't. As I've said a number of times, to me, this mechanic is highly artificial and I genuinely hope nothing like it is in the game. It does not fit, it caters to ez mode players. You can make friends with people you find out there in the world. Level syncing is just so fake, and yes, I realize I'm talking about a video game and my own personal prefernces.
Krixus said:Mephiles said:Krixus said:It is a completely artificial mechanic, like instancing, that breaks immersion. I'm no role player, but this just screams "lowest common denominator" to me. This is supposed to be a simulated world. Ever invite friends out to a nice dinner and they can't go because they didn't work hard, or are still in school, or whatever, and they can't afford it?
There are ways to play with your friends. If one of you is in school, or a graveyard network admin who has unfettered use of the companies interwebs, and the other is a mother of 2 who works full time, spin up an alt that you only play with her when she has time.
Don't sacrifice the integrity of the world and hence, the game, with this kind of thing. /deadhorse
It is not like instancing (though I personally find that instancing is overly demonized here, it works fine if used sparingly and can do certain things that purely non-instanced cannot do as well).
How is it any more artificial than for example, bind points are? Using a spell to set a spot you can appear so you can be closer to where you want to be. How is something like using a spell to sync down any less immersive than that?
I feel like there's some common sense missing. You can't just use "it's magic" to explain away everything. Some things are necessary, some things work in the lore and mythos, and some things don't. As I've said a number of times, to me, this mechanic is highly artificial and I genuinely hope nothing like it is in the game. It does not fit, it caters to ez mode players. You can make friends with people you find out there in the world. Level syncing is just so fake, and yes, I realize I'm talking about a video game and my own personal prefernces.
I understand that it is your preference but I am asking why that is the case. What makes it less immersive than being able to pick a spot, cast a spell, die and come back to that spot? I understand that using magic to just grant everything is silly but I don't see how this is particularly unfitting. As for easy mode, I don't see how unless like some others have said you expect the system to sync you down but leave you too strong. If it syncs you down to roughly the same strength as anyone else that level then how would it be any easier than just going out with a group of the same level. As far as I can tell it still is just opening a wider range of potential people to play with.
Rubezahl said:If you as a 50 mentor down to level 20 and fill a group spot, that is one less group spot for actual level 20's. The problem isn't usually a lack of player's, it's a lack of groups. How many times have you spent with all camps taken in Oasis, waiting for a spot to open up?
Oh one just did... nevermind he's going to get one of his lvl 50 buddies to fill it instead.
I'm not saying this will always be a problem, but it will definitely be at launch. I always laughed at the level racing guys that burned through games and then complain because their is nothing to do cause the rest of the population is still playing content. Mentoring and the like is something games add when their player base is largely at end game and there are not the people there to group with. If there are people physically playing at those levels, go play with them.
Last about the point about unskilled players... If it somehow brought the player down to a level that he only had the skills available that a person his level would, and his gear is of the same quality as his partners, yes. I understand you say that FF did that, but I can't attest to that because I never did anything in FF with that mechanic. However I can say that EVERY game that I have played with this mechanic, has resulted in one person basically carrying the group and destroying everything in an effort for the lower level person to catch up quickly and they can do same level content together. Heck SWTOR (which I realize is borderline a 1P game) makes it so you could basically level to 50 and never kill a mob that is higher than level 12.
I love to play with my friends too. I'll twink em, buff em, and run behind them and make sure that they stay alive (which is boring as heck we all agree)... and there are mechanics where it can work, I don't doubt. I just remember meeting a lot of people I never would have met if I had played with the same friends regardless of what level they were. The fact that we had to split up led us to having a very social experience that we have not been able to replicate in other games... games which, coincidentally, all had mentor mechanics.
-=EDIT=-
I also agree that instancing is overly demonized if it is used to solve population issues.
I think it deserves every negative comment it gets in the "every group gets its own little dungeon" concept.-=END EDIT=-
To the highlight, thats exactly what I was saying isn't necessarily an issue. If a 50 took a spot that a 20 could take, the same 20 whos spot was taken could also get a group with a level 50 so the net result should effectively be neutralized (basically as long as their are people able to group a group can technically be made). Now, to your credit that does depend on available camps (so if for example a popular place for level 20 was frequently over crowded that might be a bit of a problem) but while that is an issue it is not one that I think is all too major. For one it will decrease over time as more and more people work their way to higher levels the population will spread out and the demand for grouping will diminish among max level players and secondly as a direct result of the mentor/sync system you would have more camps available to you (using the same level 20 camp scenario, if the 20 spot is full you still may be able to go to a 10 or 15 area and form a group there where if there was no sync option you are forced to just wait until spots open in the area for your level). So I still am not sold on the idea that this is hurting much (not that you necessarily are trying to sell me on it).
For the rest of the points made I can see all of that but it then comes down to situational elements. Like your swtor example, swtor was a game where low levels really don't mean anything and as a result their scaling leaves you very strong on purpose. Even before it offered scaling the areas were pretty much a joke difficulty wise. That really isn't the same intention of this game so you would think that they would not allow a syncing system to go live in such a mannor. For friends again its sortof a matter of situational elemetns and relative importance, even with no sync mechnic people might only ever play with friends which generally means they will spend less time playing (for fear that they will leave the group behind). So which is better, offering a way to keep playing with friends without having to hold yourself back from play or try to force people to group with randoms which may not work anyway. As I have stated, to me I would rather there be tools to allow people to play with friends and they can still group with randoms should they choose (and I am saying this as someone who will be joining up on this game alone and likely will never have any real life friends join me here so randoms for new friends is all i've got).
Krixus said:Mephiles said:
It is not like instancing (though I personally find that instancing is overly demonized here, it works fine if used sparingly and can do certain things that purely non-instanced cannot do as well).
How is it any more artificial than for example, bind points are? Using a spell to set a spot you can appear so you can be closer to where you want to be. How is something like using a spell to sync down any less immersive than that?
I feel like there's some common sense missing. You can't just use "it's magic" to explain away everything. Some things are necessary, some things work in the lore and mythos, and some things don't. As I've said a number of times, to me, this mechanic is highly artificial and I genuinely hope nothing like it is in the game. It does not fit, it caters to ez mode players. You can make friends with people you find out there in the world. Level syncing is just so fake, and yes, I realize I'm talking about a video game and my own personal prefernces.
This is my sentiment exactly. I've tried to think of ways to make it work, but I just can't. The best I can come up with is an npc that charges a fee to temporarily revert you to "your former self." What it definitely shouldn't be is a simple interaction with your UI, magically changing your level at the press of a button.
Were a mentor system to exist, the most important thing is for the mentor to be nerfed in line with players at his reduced level. Trivializing content is the cardinal sin in MMO design. But beyond character power, the mentor also has a knowledge of the game and its world that lower levels are unlikely to have. A big part of playing an MMORPG is personally learning the world, the story, the content, the dangers and ideally, learning and overcoming with other players with a similar level of experience. This goes out the window when you introduce mentoring, and is part of the reason I've hated it in every game it existed. I no longer have a fear of the unknown. I no longer have a sense of wonder or the need to figure things out on my own.
Mentoring just runs contrary to so many of Pantheon's intended tenets and features.
After thinking about this, I thought of something that might be kind of neat ... something actually like a mentor system....
What if you as a level 50 could earn an alternate type of currency (for what I have no idea) for spending time helping out low levels. Not carrying them, but playing with low levels and helping them into the game.
Not just answering questions, but playing with them and giving pointers. This would help keep new players vested in the game when 50 seems like a long way off.
Mephiles, your vision of a mentoring system is feasible, the problem is that most of us haven't seen it implemented in a way that would work well for this system, so it is a hard point to argue. I think what I am going to try to do is find a nice big social family style guild and hope that I can keep up for the most part. If not, then I'm gonna do randoms and try to recruit folks that are my level. But feel free to throw me on a friend's list when the game comes around and I will be happy to run with ya, even if I have to load up an alt ;)
Rubezahl said:After thinking about this, I thought of something that might be kind of neat ... something actually like a mentor system....
What if you as a level 50 could earn an alternate type of currency (for what I have no idea) for spending time helping out low levels. Not carrying them, but playing with low levels and helping them into the game.
Not just answering questions, but playing with them and giving pointers. This would help keep new players vested in the game when 50 seems like a long way off.
Mephiles, your vision of a mentoring system is feasible, the problem is that most of us haven't seen it implemented in a way that would work well for this system, so it is a hard point to argue. I think what I am going to try to do is find a nice big social family style guild and hope that I can keep up for the most part. If not, then I'm gonna do randoms and try to recruit folks that are my level. But feel free to throw me on a friend's list when the game comes around and I will be happy to run with ya, even if I have to load up an alt ;)
Not a bad idea (though a different kind of system), they offered something like that in ffxi too (though there were no rewards) which strangely enough was called "mentoring". Basically it just gave you a special icon next to your character name to indicate to new players that you were open to helping them out and you could be searched through a special mentor search (not that it had to be something related to ffxi for me to agree with it and your idea is a different take on it). I could easily see there being some npc faction or something like that which offered rewards for helping other players.
I can certainly appreciate why you wouldn't want this system as it is done in some other games. From what has been said I can definitely agree from a distance that it wouldn't be so good if done that way. I tend to think that most/everyone here by and large wants the same game (not exactly but largely so), they just have different opinions on how to get there. So with that in mind I try not to get too crazy when approaching the opinions here. I would be happy to have you on the list, can't wait to see what pantheon has in store.
Krixus said:spyderoptik said:Not a fan of mentoring systems..
I have had friends in past games I'd want to group with and be completely at different levels and gear, but never did I think it made sense to artificially boost them to my level or artificially deflate my character's strength down to their level either. At most, I usually just rolled an alt or followed around with a buff character. I'd talk with them in voice comms, offer them guidance and maybe attack some mob it if aggrod on them and I were nearby etc.
Most mentoring I've seen in games tend to still result in a high level/highly geared player even when scaled down being far stronger than the regular person they'd be grouping with otherwise who haven't attained that tier of gear (even scaled). This results in more xp per hour which does result in faster leveling to a degree shortcutting things. Somebody playing an alt along with their friend instead of downleveling through a mentor system would likely be slower xp per hour and a more normalized leveling time due to normalized gear and spell tiers.
I personally don't want to be grouped in a dungeon only to find the person I invited doesn't even know how to play their class fully because they were carried/handheld through the game. Some encounters require people to have a full and thorough understanding of their class and game mechanics. It won't only impact my play session by the person joining who was carried, but theirs when I boot them for being obvious dead weight. I don't have the same babysitting obligation their mentor had with them and choose not to waste my time or my groups time with deaths or having to explain things that should already be known by a player of that level. Do them (and everybody else) a favor and let them properly learn the game, their class, the game world, etc. It'll make for a better experience ultimately for everybody. There can be significant time loss having to work back through a dungeon to get to your spot of camping for maybe a specific spawn or an xp location (disco 1, disco 2, hand room, etc). If this game is like EQ, death in a game could be a significant time loss at minimal (this is assuming your camp location is still available by the time you get back).
Another thing with mentoring tends to spoil some of the surprise of what's around the next corner in a dungeon when your buddy already knows or is explaining everything in advance. Imagine when you were first leveling if somebody did that to you. You'd probably feel like you missed out on some of that excitement and wonder. That's part of the magic of a game. It's like watching a movie with somebody who keeps telling you the plot before you get to that part. If you do mentor, you should at least consider this for them as it may have been a memorable time when you were first playing.
My bigger concern is that once the game starts catering to casual features, where does it stop? Do we get ant trail markers added? Maybe maps/mini-maps with POIs litering them? Maybe flying mounts where you can fly over everything trivially? Perhaps some dailies for tokens that can get you an epic without doing the full quest chain? Maybe class change tokens so people don't have to relevel a new class? Maybe remove guard factions so casuals can go into every town without having to work on faction (like EQ factions)? Maybe remove dungeon flags so everybody can enter without flagging or ways to shortcut the flagging process? Does every NPC start getting question marks over their heads and mobs with large blinking quest indicators so you don't need to interact with the world's inhabitants? To what extent does the game go with casual features? To what extent is the game trying to avoid such features? It's a slippery slope.
Nailed it. Pantheon isn't that game. If it is, it's going to fail.
Yep. This game is being sold as a hardcore game not a super causal clone of everything else out there for the last 5+years. If it takes that turn it will fail. This instantly be whatever level you want is nothing but catering to casuals.
I am in favor of mentoring.
-Scaling gear shouldn't be an issue any more than twinking. Apply stat and damage cap as they would be. Max level mentoring down to level 19 won't hit harder than 30hps, will never one shot the mobs.
-To those saying it ruins the intake of knowledge of the mentored player but then say they prefer powerleveling them...Really!? You don't see how joining a player at a content appropriate level would be a better learning experience for them than turning the noob into an unkillable walking DS?
-Alts are not a solution. I don't want an alt to play with any combination of which of my friends are online at that time.
-Immersion. A bad argument, doesn't mean the same thing to anyone. But what if I buy potion of weakening and temporarly lose 5 lvl per potion drunk? Easy fix.
Mekada said:I am in favor of mentoring.
-Scaling gear shouldn't be an issue any more than twinking. Apply stat and damage cap as they would be. Max level mentoring down to level 19 won't hit harder than 30hps, will never one shot the mobs.
-To those saying it ruins the intake of knowledge of the mentored player but then say they prefer powerleveling them...Really!? You don't see how joining a player at a content appropriate level would be a better learning experience for them than turning the noob into an unkillable walking DS?
-Alts are not a solution. I don't want an alt to play with any combination of which of my friends are online at that time.
-Immersion. A bad argument, doesn't mean the same thing to anyone. But what if I buy potion of weakening and temporarly lose 5 lvl per potion drunk? Easy fix.
Telling other people that their completely valid opinions are "bad arguments" isn't a great way to make your point.
Krixus said:Telling other people that their completely valid opinions are "bad arguments" isn't a great way to make your point.
Sure, I suck at debates. I still think using your opinion on immersion on a feature you don't need to use and that when other people would be using it you would be mostly oblivious to is a bad argument on why said feature should not exist.
Mekada said:Krixus said:Telling other people that their completely valid opinions are "bad arguments" isn't a great way to make your point.
Sure, I suck at debates. I still think using your opinion on immersion on a feature you don't need to use and that when other people would be using it you would be mostly oblivious to is a bad argument on why said feature should not exist.
Instead we should throw out all believability or suspension of disbelief and implement convenience mechanics at will?
Dullahan said:Instead we should throw out all believability or suspension of disbelief and implement convenience mechanics at will?
No, not all obviously. But some suspension of disbelief is needed.
Static spawns and summonable mounts that pop out of thin air are much more immersion breaking to me than a UI element or mentoring. But I'm willing to bet that most arguing for immersion are ok with the formers... I still think there are plenty of ways that mentoring could be explained lore wise.
I just want you to know how hilarious everyone looks trying to explain what can and cannot happen logically in a fantasy world of which we know about 5% of the lore, and even less about the actual skills of the classes.
When a master is teaching a student, he doesn't fight at his peak level, he lowers himself to his student's level to make the lesson's goal reachable. Immersion isn't the issue, because we will be immersed in whatever they give us as long as they put a little effort into explaining it away. Casting fireballs out of our hands makes sense because... magic. Yet it doesn't make sense that a more experienced friend would come pass some knowledge to someone, having to lower their normal skill level for the sake of teaching a lesson? The immersion argument is only because it hasn't been presented in a way that you accept yet.
The only real question is if it is done in a way to pull players through levels without them having to do the work... that would be bad, which I am sure the VAST MAJORITY of people agree...
Call it what it is... we don't want a mechanic where people get handheld/carried through the game. The people arguing for a mentoring system don't want this either.
Nydan, EQ has mentoring now... and it is an exact example of a bad mentoring system that is designed to help people skip content. I like the old Necro way better as well :)
Rubezahl said:I just want you to know how hilarious everyone looks trying to explain what can and cannot happen logically in a fantasy world of which we know about 5% of the lore, and even less about the actual skills of the classes.
When a master is teaching a student, he doesn't fight at his peak level, he lowers himself to his student's level to make the lesson's goal reachable. Immersion isn't the issue, because we will be immersed in whatever they give us as long as they put a little effort into explaining it away. Casting fireballs out of our hands makes sense because... magic. Yet it doesn't make sense that a more experienced friend would come pass some knowledge to someone, having to lower their normal skill level for the sake of teaching a lesson? The immersion argument is only because it hasn't been presented in a way that you accept yet.
The only real question is if it is done in a way to pull players through levels without them having to do the work... that would be bad, which I am sure the VAST MAJORITY of people agree...
Call it what it is... we don't want a mechanic where people get handheld/carried through the game. The people arguing for a mentoring system don't want this either.
Nydan, EQ has mentoring now... and it is an exact example of a bad mentoring system that is designed to help people skip content. I like the old Necro way better as well :)
This is a better attempt at explaining away mentoring, but mentors are still weaker and die to mobs that shouldn't be capable of killing them.
Nevertheless, its true, a good explanation and system that retains the challenge of content is most important and the reason most people do not really like mentoring. Unfortunately, there are still a slew of other problems beyond the mentor being OP.
Dullahan said:So its less immersion breaking to suddenly become weak and forget your knowledge of combat than to find a creature in the same place you found it before, or to essentially call a trained animal to ride.
Not sure if serious.
And even more for me, to somehow have your items relatively scaled down with you? Ugh.
I felt EQ2's mentor system did pretty good. You were slightly overpowered but not to the point you could just plow through everything, more like a twinked lvl 20 then an OP level 20.
Really it all comes down to balance. If done right, it could be great in a game where grouping will be so important. Once the initial rush levels it leaves the lower level people harder and harder to level up and find groups. Having a well thought and balanced mentor system would really help that out.