Kelem said:I can do without voice chat as well. 3rd party so that if you wanted to ... sure go for it. Mandatory, NO !! Integrated into the game NO !
I don’t think anyone ever said anything about it being Mandatory; I mean how would you force everyone to use a VOIP system in the game if a player doesn’t want to use it? Either way, what is being discussed is if Pantheon is planning on implementing a VOIP product into their game so that those who can’t afford to purchase a VOIP solution to use for in game chat will have an option. I have been asking for Mumble integration so that players can take advantage of Positional Audio, Overlays and the use of the Opus codec which is amazing, but the best part is Mumble is Open Source and Free…
As to whether they build it into their game or not may not really matter since there are plugins for Unity that they could use for integration without much work on their part. Yes, as many people have stated players will probably use a 3rd party that isn’t integrated into the game which is perfectly fine for many of them, but for those who just want to get into a quick pick-up group or what-have, this could be a viable solution too.
Rint
I have been using another VOIP product called Discord for the last 2 months and I gotta admit that this product may have convinced me to onvert from Mumble, there are a few things I don't like about it such as weaker security than Mumble, voice delay/lag depending on oa players location globally, no positional audio yet....
I still think that Mumble is the best VOIP on the market for gamers, but the competition is gaining quickly. I still have hopes that the Pantheon team looks into including it with the positional audio features.
Rint
Malsirian said:Krixus said:I don't like voice chat. Maybe for raids, but not for every day gameplay.
Pyye said:I do not want to experience or hear voice in the game... My recent play in EQ Phinny server with the Pantheon folks has made this decision even clearer. I really enjoy the texting via groups, sales, private tells etc. and you do not have to hear immature idiots who can ruin an in-game moment.
Now, if we get to harder raiding, I can see the need for at least "listening" to the raid leader in order to all be on same page.
/agree
+1
Voice isn't absolutely needed, for any reason. Look some of EQ, some of those raids were pretty darn complicated, and we only had text to work with!
That said, being able to listen to a raid leader and maybe a couple of others in a leadership role isn't a bad thing either.
I did have some great conversations in voice with people I had grown close to, but that was almost exclusively after I had gotten to know them via chatting in text. There aren't many relationships that began with voice chat that lasted for me. I'm sure it's different for some other people...
But voice should be an option, IMO a third party one. Some others have mentioned, and I agree, that I've never played a game with a well-integrated voice chat. And there are some which automatically pulled you into a voice channel when you joined a group. That was a huge turn off for me, basically a show stopper.
Given how much time has passed since EQ, some games have incorporated voice chat directly into their clients to help people like me who can barely type 30/minute. Other games have opted not, I assume for performance reasons.
Could you build into the client direct support for Discord (or TS or Vent if you like them better...I don't). It could work like this, the first person in party to enter his or her Discord information enables it for the entire group. An indicator would show up letting people know it's availeble.
Everyone else would then opt in. You could mute individuals incase one of them is a troll. And when the group disbands, everyone is ejected from the discord server.
That way, the Panteon client can do what it does best; and Discord can be a free means of allowing people like me who are dysfynctional finger typers to still build that positive community that Pantheon desires =)
The reason this is beneficial is that people will do what is easy; but even in WoW where raiding is easier with voice chat, people will still refuse to join a discord group if they are a pug simply because they have to leave the game and manually type a url into a browser (assuming they don't already have the Discord client).
(I originally posted this somewhere and was told to post it here instead.)
Like Pyye mentioned, I do not like using voice programs for the most part in mmo's, I don't mind listening to instructions from a raid leader in a raid environment but I prefer text chat for pretty much every aspect of the game.
One major problem I see with a built in voice program is that it will then become mainstream and "required". I don't want to be forced to listen to a group of people chatting so that I know whats going on and if I "opt out" I'll either be booted from group for not "listening" to instructions or for simply refusing to use voip.
I think VoIP solutions should be left up to people's guilds to organise and then the guild members can work out what is required most of the time between themselves. Let's face it when you are in a guild you tend to just group with guild mates rather than looking for pick up groups and therefore guild VoIP is generally used much more often. I would hate to use VoIP in a pickup group though. I just use VoIP when playing with guild mates.
Couple things come to mind here.
Voice is almost a requirement for many people these days. Whether due to physical limitations or in the case of large raids.
Because of this, I would prefer to see a built-in chat with certain limitations and options. Mainly built-in, because one thing I hated was that depending on who your with, they're 3rd party choice may not be one you already have loaded, which means downloading, installing and connecting, all that has to be done out of game. It is annoying.
But, I also don't want to hear the immature babble that goes on when speaking is so much easier than typing (and I won't even get into the immature babble coming from mature adults). So I while I understand the almost necessity of a built-in voice system, here are some things I'd like to see it do.
1) make it optional. In other words, I should be able to turn off voice chat for channels, just as I can turn off text chat in channels, so I don't have to hear the adults next to me babbling like middle school kids.
2) Make private group and raid channels where the group leader can assign who can talk. This way when your in a raid, your not having to have the leader repeat crap because again, because others are babbling non-raid stuff over the channel while the leader is giving instructions.
3) It needs to have easy to understand, or somehow automated level controls. I hate when 1 person is blowing my ears off, and another is quiet as a mouse. I would actually even prefer to control the levels of each person on my end, versus relying on the person on the other end to adjust their setup correctly. Like some sort of mixing console.
4) A way for those of us that prefer not to use voice all the time to have voice-to-text and vice-versa. So you can group with people who use voice as well as not, and both sides of players can communicate. This way, voice would not be a requirement to join a group. I hated when joining a PUG and they give me voice channel info to join. /disband
5) Voice modification would be a huge plus for those that would like to add that bit of immersion.
It sounds like a lot, but the technology for all of it is available. 1-4 are almost necessary for it appeal to everyone, and 5 is just a kicker option to make it fun.
I would say keep this 3rd party, maybe down the road incorporate it into the game as an option but even with that the quality has always been suspect. I personally dont mind voice chat at all, great for when running raids, even better for when grouping with guildies and just hitting up whatever content. VOIP improves my gaming experience/immersion.
I would agree that VOIP does make my gaming experience when I’m grouped with friends or guild members, however, I would agree that I would rarely use VOIP in pickup groups mainly due to others not wanting to use it. This is fine and “each to their own” but those times I’ve used VOIP in pickup groups we were much more efficient than compared to non-VOIP pick-up groups. When I join a Pickup group I have used MorphVOX to alter my voice, it’s a lot of fun and if you RP its really fun.
I understand that many folks don’t like VOIP being included in game, but my thought is “I would rather have it available and not need it, than need it and not have it”…
Now back to my main purpose of this topic… Please use positional audio or offer it as an option to those who would enjoy it. J
Rint
Would break immersion? Does touching your wife or girlfriend break you from the immersion of your feelings toward her? (yes, I graciously assume the reader has had this experience at least once in his life.)
The answer is no. Even if you're one of those people who hates touch, the feeling of touch did not break the immersion of your emotional feelings toward the woman. For most of us, the additional sensation brought us deeper in that immersion.
In the same way, VOIP built in brings most of us to a deeper place, because there's something different about talking to your party to coordinate a pull (especially a difficult one) rather than hope to God that everyone knows what he should be doing and then wiping because you could have told your Enchanter a target he can't see just joined the fray. Plus during down time, the exchange of knowledge and ideas makes you feel like a party and not a group of mercenaries who can't wait to disperse.
I agree that this experience should have mute options per party member, because no one wants to be stuck with a VOIP troll who is otherwise a good player. We had a French Canadian who used a baby synthisizer in TS....and most of us muted him even though three-quarters of his information was vital to the raid. (The other quarter was trolling I assume to be funny in Canada or Quebec but not so funny here.)
Though, like I said in my earlier post, despite being a programmer.....I am a finger typer. If I need to communicate in game or quarrel with a bad decision, I'm severely limited by the speed of my communication. Even being right doesn't change the fact that my speed at typing is slow. Put that that same knowledge over VOIP, and I'm now motivated to communicate with my teammates.
Further, if you consider guilds with and without an active VOIP, guilds with an active VOIP have a tighter community within those who use it. I go out of my way to help other players who are VOIP users in my guilds as compared to Bob who sits in the corner and only speaks up when he wants something. I've observed the same behavior toward me, so, I know you have experienced it to on one end or the other.
However, like I said, my primary concern is grouping, not raiding or even guild chat. In old EQ there were many times we hashed out pull strats or relied on one person to coordinate the fight at the expense of his DPS. Imagine not having to stop your rotation to talk. This is why I want it in game, because otherwise, most groups will continue to isolate themselves from actually interacting with one another.
I don’t think anyone is saying that VOIP is mandatory, and that if you prefer to communicate by typing that you can still do so. I believe what some are saying is that it should be an option for those players who are perhaps not in a guild but join PUG’s often and would like to utilize a VOIP if its available to them in game. I don’t see how this can be an issue for anyone, if you don’t want to use them then don’t (nice thing about having options...)
Rint
Fulton said:I think the key is a voice to text and a text to voice option. So you can have a mixed group but niether is required.
This would help immensely. I think voice chat is pretty much were things are going to, leaving that out seems a obvious mistake - long term.
I have no problem adopting different voices, I could almost be a voice over actor - so I understand some people feel odd about using their own voices.
I don't usually play female characters tho, at least not as mains. My Druid bot is always female, but I hardly even type chat with her, I hate that laptop's keyboard. And that choice was mainly made since male wood elves had trees all over their armor (I HATED that).
I would prefer if resources (both time and money) were not invested in the development of an in-game voice chat and rather used elsewhere. My experience has almost always been that guilds and groups rely on 3rd party software, which is great because those often times offer a better experience with more features and control. It's just not a worthy investment as people will choose to use 3rd party anwyways.
Personally, I love voice chat as it makes me feel closer to the people I guild and regularly group with, and nowadays with clients like Discord, it's insanely easy to invite people into a voice channel (literally sending a link for them to click), which means PUGs can quickly organize voice chat coordination using 3rd party if they wish to.
I also typically have all the main voice clients installed anyways, so it's not an issue for me to hop in Teamspeak, Ventrilo, Mumble, or Discord (preferred and is free), many of which have overlay options.
Rachael said:Like Pyye mentioned, I do not like using voice programs for the most part in mmo's, I don't mind listening to instructions from a raid leader in a raid environment but I prefer text chat for pretty much every aspect of the game.
One major problem I see with a built in voice program is that it will then become mainstream and "required". I don't want to be forced to listen to a group of people chatting so that I know whats going on and if I "opt out" I'll either be booted from group for not "listening" to instructions or for simply refusing to use voip.
I agree, with both of you. I do not like using voice chat for normal groups and only use voice chat in raids to listen to the leader tell me what to do. Like when my parents told me to speak only when I was spoken to lol.
Text chat is my preferable means of communication as well.
Get the impression that many of the arguements here in favour of VOIP are:
Ease of Comms
Efficiency of comms (particularly in Raids)
I think some of you have, perhaps, forgotten the progression of events that has lead to VOIP being ubiquitous in many games.
1. Play moved from tab-targetting and tacticcal play
2. Growth of FPS lead to perceived need to 'increase combat activity'
3. Twitch-style combat introduced
4. Non-Twitch now use 'faceroll' spamming of keys to maintain 'optimum' DPS cycle
5. PLAYERS CANNOT NOW COMMUNICATE USING A KEYBOARD!
Their fingers are TOO busy! and even if they were not...
Combat is just fast-paced move, spam key-cycle, rinse-repeat
6. And so VOIP becomes necessary!
Pantheon HAS built-in downtime.
Combat is paced to ACCOMODATE typed combat instruction.
This removes 95% of all VOIP 'needs'.
.... That leaves us to argue about the last 5% of cases.
BTW I never noticed a 'problem' with raids caused by relying on keyboard. People were prepared. Leaders had organised themselves and people looked for instruction. If, by level 25 or whenever the first raids in Pantheon begin, the ;new' playerbase have not picked this up, then we have failed to educate them.
Hieromonk said:I would not mind Voice chat, if there was voice-box effects, such that when you spoke you sounded like a Halfling, or Orge, or Elf, etc..
Otherwise, voice ruins the whole immersion and fantasy for me.
THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!!!!!!!!
I liked in EQ1where Orges didn't know "common" and when speaking in chat, spoke in gibberish. It was pretty cool! These are the things that made EQ awesome.