I'd like to go back to the time where gear only had 1 or possibly 2 stats. I don't like equipment that gives huge stats to every slot. It really dumbs down the gear selection process because each item has all the stats. If we were more careful with handing out stats there would be more thought into what gear you want to wear.
bigdogchris said:I'd like to go back to the time where gear only had 1 or possibly 2 stats. I don't like equipment that gives huge stats to every slot. It really dumbs down the gear selection process because each item has all the stats. If we were more careful with handing out stats there would be more thought into what gear you want to wear.
Yes, I really like this idea as well. If items only had 1 or 2 main stats that then affected secondaries, it would be quite interesting.
Raidan said:I'd actually like to see gear scale by Character attributes/level rather than raw stats. It's pretty much a natural combination of +stats/scaling by %. Using Stamina vs. + hps. Or Int vs + mana, or +Str vs +damage, etc. That way gear will level naturally with level and gearflation can be controlled much easier than adding +100 hps for the first expansion, +200 for the next, etc. etc. So, 10 stamina at level 1 may add 10 hps; where, 10 stamina at 50 would add 50.
Stat caps would still most likely increase as the level cap did, but the increases would be much less than raw stats. If an expansion was released and the level cap was raised by +5/10, and caps increased at +5 stat per level - having an additional +25/50 stamina that could be gained wouldn't cause the ridiculous numbers that are now seen in EQ. Maybe +6 hps per/sta at 55, and +7 per/sta at 60, etc. You also could make some of the older BIS gear be more relevant for much longer.
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Also, I have a few another semi-related ideas that would be more controversial, but I always would have liked to see some game try/test. I'd argue that a way to make gear relevant, have class/race selection meaningful, and have more BIS pieces is have class/race selection continually matter. Have different stat "caps" at max level for a Warrior vs a Wizard, and a Ogre Warrior Vs. a Gnome Warrior.
Example: Ogre Warriors with a Base Strength of 150 and 120 sta shouldn't max at the same cap as a Gnome Warrior that started with 100/95. And an Ogre Warrior with 80 agi/80 dex shouldn't max as high as a gnome with 110/110. Yes, /complaints about balancing, but say the Cap for stats is +100 of your base, then an Ogre might focus more on dex/agi, where a gnome with str/sta. But, an ogre "could" go for total max strength at 250 sacrificing mitigation; whereas, a gnome would only reach 200 max - it may offer different styles of gameplays within the class itself. To me it would add more flavor to class selection rather than "it only effects your base stats and ultimately everyone maxes out the same."
Also a gnome wizard shouldn't be able to Cap at 250 Strength like an Ogre Warrior. Same principles above applying. Wizard starts at 60 STR, and Stat Cap was +100 base stats - they'd max at 160 str.
The numbers I've used for examples are just hypothetical - so, if replying, try to focus more on the critiquing the "idea" than the numbers.
Necro'ing this thread. Now that there's more forum activity, I'd be curious to hear others thoughts on my quoted idea on stats/stat gains here to make starting race selection more meaningful (and a side effect of controlling twinking as gear would scale by level). I'd also agree that with the above posters that I'd rather not see all items provide all stats like EQ ultimately did.
Raidan said:Raidan said:I'd actually like to see gear scale by Character attributes/level rather than raw stats. It's pretty much a natural combination of +stats/scaling by %. Using Stamina vs. + hps. Or Int vs + mana, or +Str vs +damage, etc. That way gear will level naturally with level and gearflation can be controlled much easier than adding +100 hps for the first expansion, +200 for the next, etc. etc. So, 10 stamina at level 1 may add 10 hps; where, 10 stamina at 50 would add 50.
Stat caps would still most likely increase as the level cap did, but the increases would be much less than raw stats. If an expansion was released and the level cap was raised by +5/10, and caps increased at +5 stat per level - having an additional +25/50 stamina that could be gained wouldn't cause the ridiculous numbers that are now seen in EQ. Maybe +6 hps per/sta at 55, and +7 per/sta at 60, etc. You also could make some of the older BIS gear be more relevant for much longer.
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Also, I have a few another semi-related ideas that would be more controversial, but I always would have liked to see some game try/test. I'd argue that a way to make gear relevant, have class/race selection meaningful, and have more BIS pieces is have class/race selection continually matter. Have different stat "caps" at max level for a Warrior vs a Wizard, and a Ogre Warrior Vs. a Gnome Warrior.
Example: Ogre Warriors with a Base Strength of 150 and 120 sta shouldn't max at the same cap as a Gnome Warrior that started with 100/95. And an Ogre Warrior with 80 agi/80 dex shouldn't max as high as a gnome with 110/110. Yes, /complaints about balancing, but say the Cap for stats is +100 of your base, then an Ogre might focus more on dex/agi, where a gnome with str/sta. But, an ogre "could" go for total max strength at 250 sacrificing mitigation; whereas, a gnome would only reach 200 max - it may offer different styles of gameplays within the class itself. To me it would add more flavor to class selection rather than "it only effects your base stats and ultimately everyone maxes out the same."
Also a gnome wizard shouldn't be able to Cap at 250 Strength like an Ogre Warrior. Same principles above applying. Wizard starts at 60 STR, and Stat Cap was +100 base stats - they'd max at 160 str.
The numbers I've used for examples are just hypothetical - so, if replying, try to focus more on the critiquing the "idea" than the numbers.
Necro'ing this thread. Now that there's more forum activity, I'd be curious to hear others thoughts on my quoted idea on stats/stat gains here to make starting race selection more meaningful (and a side effect of controlling twinking as gear would scale by level). I'd also agree that with the above posters that I'd rather not see all items provide all stats like EQ ultimately did.
Our first disagreement? Haha. I don't like the scaling idea for the same reason I don't like the deleveling/mentoring idea, it feels false. I think EQ2 did this? I didn't like it. Getting an item and then having to wait for it to increase in power makes it feel like less of a big deal to get it. I'd rather have that big initial power bump followed by using the weapon for 10 levels(or whatever) and gradually it becoming relatively weaker. And then you get the next new weapon and feel that rush again.
Edit: although I must say it didn't bother me that spells increased in power for a couple/few levels after you first got them. I don't know rightly why that seems fine and changing items doesn't. Perhaps because one is a physical item and the other is "magic". /shrug
Kilsin said:I think stats are important, it allows diversity between classes and creates a feeling of freedom when choosing what gear you want your character to wear, what I really do not like after learning a valuable lesson in VG is Equipped Effects (EEs) they are game breakers and pretty much swallow the Devs into a never ending gear sink, this is bad for everyone involved and harms the game in my opinion.
I love mixing stats and getting the most out of my characters (usually just my main and a few very regular alts as I am a min/maxer at heart) and getting a new shiny drop that you had been grinding or working hard towards getting feels all the more special if it has some nice stat improvements for your class but another big issue here is itemisation not balanced properly which will result in weird or useless stats on quality items for your characters class and that tends to be a big let down on what should of been a happy occasion!
Stats are fine and I look forward to seeing them in pantheon but I would severely limit EE's to only rare Epic or rare Mythic items/sets/end game and only on a very limited range of items if any at all.
Great topic too Wandidar, stats are a very important part of any game :)
Kilisn, can I take this a step further? My issue with stats on gear is that they are all static and they stay the same. For instance, you are walking around with a Fiery Avenger, I just got a Fiery avenger and its the same goddang thing. How about instead of yours proccing fire, mine procs a lightning spell, or mine has higher +STR on it and yours has +Vitality.
Equipment that is static bores the **** out of me, I want to see some sort of diversification in equipment. I should want to look at what the guy next to me is holding, and how cooler his might be than mine. Thoughts?
Ryan said:Kilsin said:I think stats are important, it allows diversity between classes and creates a feeling of freedom when choosing what gear you want your character to wear, what I really do not like after learning a valuable lesson in VG is Equipped Effects (EEs) they are game breakers and pretty much swallow the Devs into a never ending gear sink, this is bad for everyone involved and harms the game in my opinion.
I love mixing stats and getting the most out of my characters (usually just my main and a few very regular alts as I am a min/maxer at heart) and getting a new shiny drop that you had been grinding or working hard towards getting feels all the more special if it has some nice stat improvements for your class but another big issue here is itemisation not balanced properly which will result in weird or useless stats on quality items for your characters class and that tends to be a big let down on what should of been a happy occasion!
Stats are fine and I look forward to seeing them in pantheon but I would severely limit EE's to only rare Epic or rare Mythic items/sets/end game and only on a very limited range of items if any at all.
Great topic too Wandidar, stats are a very important part of any game :)
Kilisn, can I take this a step further? My issue with stats on gear is that they are all static and they stay the same. For instance, you are walking around with a Fiery Avenger, I just got a Fiery avenger and its the same goddang thing. How about instead of yours proccing fire, mine procs a lightning spell, or mine has higher +STR on it and yours has +Vitality.
Equipment that is static bores the **** out of me, I want to see some sort of diversification in equipment. I should want to look at what the guy next to me is holding, and how cooler his might be than mine. Thoughts?
This would remove some of the iconic status that items had in EQ, for example. You could just look at a player and know what they had and dream of one day having that item, not an approximation of it.
Krixus said:Our first disagreement? Haha. I don't like the scaling idea for the same reason I don't like the deleveling/mentoring idea, it feels false. I think EQ2 did this? I didn't like it. Getting an item and then having to wait for it to increase in power makes it feel like less of a big deal to get it. I'd rather have that big initial power bump followed by using the weapon for 10 levels(or whatever) and gradually it becoming relatively weaker. And then you get the next new weapon and feel that rush again.
Edit: although I must say it didn't bother me that spells increased in power for a couple/few levels after you first got them. I don't know rightly why that seems fine and changing items doesn't. Perhaps because one is a physical item and the other is "magic". /shrug
Haha, a disagreement was bound to happen... eventually. And, I don't really think we even fully disagree :). I'm looking at longetivity within the game and to continue to make races/classes/itemization meaningful. I wouldn't want the system to trivialize gear, or the meaning a player obtains from it by using it for 10 levels. And, I wouldn't say that the item would truly "increase" with wear/level any moreso than EQ did. If you had a 10 STA item on in EQ and it also had +100 hps, you were still gaining small increases (scaling) per level based on that stamina.
And, I think the word "scale" has negative connotations to it. Just remove that word altogether and forget I mentioned it. Basically, what I'm proposing is to remove raw stats off items. + Hps, + Mana, + Endurance, + Energy etc. and instead have + General stats on gear, + Sta, + Int/Wis, +Dex/Agi, etc. So the system would play exactly like EQ1 with the exception that there would be no raw stats on gear.
So, if +10 STA item was given to a level which granted a level 50, 100 hps, but provided a level 1, 5-10 hps, the player could still gain benefit out of the item, but it wouldn't be an overpowering twink and as previously stated, could continue to make race selection continually matter. Developers could also forget about having to create Recommended/Required level items to control twinking as the items would already be realistically managed through explainable means. Launch - Velious style expansions for Pantheon this may not matter, but if Pantheon lives on for 15+ years like EQ, you can't have a level 1 wearing a 500 AC +3000 hp item, but you could have one that had a 500 AC (which may not receive full benefit based off a defensive skill) and 50 STA item.
I think that gear should matter. As in when you get a piece it should be felt. But I don't believe that gear should give you a big advantage over another player. Skill should be the deciding factor.
With that said, skill being a deciding factor is up to the dev's and how the abilities play out. Tanks having some form of active mitigation is a great way to show skill. Even if that tank has 50k hp it's noticeable when he takes a lot more damage than the person with 20k hp. That person with 20k is just better with using his blocks and such to mitigate the incoming damage. That means that as a raid leader I would be focused on gearing that person because with gear he will be that much better.
I don't want to see stats inflate to the point they are in current EQ and I am 100% on board with Kilsin in that I don't want effects on tons of items. That starts to make items mandatory per class and is a bad design in my opinion. I want there to never be a 'Best in Slot' list. It should be a best for this situation type thing. I just hope they have bankers all over the world because carrying 3-4 sets of gear is going to be brutal with weight limits
Some games capped on stats and nothing mattered but other type stats. It was always about the player, you can play perfectly ok without gear you just need help resisting some of the stuff and apply damage bonus's to help reduce the time it takes. Helpers like stats mean a ton if you have none.
Otherwise you can fight in cloth gear.
games lose focus after awhile, stats jump way to high. You eventually get to a point in the game, we just bottlenecked the whole stat thing.
Look at EQ, 15 years later and they have no choice but to nerf spells, pets, characters, stats because they went to far with it.
I hope the devs really concider what happened here, and learn from it because a ton of players just walked away. Myself included and i took a good grand with me. I actually invested that much in the year i returned and left after they changed it. I invested to upgrade then they gave it all away for free then nerfed all the classes i built up. I was pissed..... was i the only one? no.
Crazzie said:Look at EQ, 15 years later and they have no choice but to nerf spells, pets, characters, stats because they went to far with it.
I hope the devs really concider what happened here, and learn from it because a ton of players just walked away. Myself included and i took a good grand with me. I actually invested that much in the year i returned and left after they changed it. I invested to upgrade then they gave it all away for free then nerfed all the classes i built up. I was pissed..... was i the only one? no.
Yes, look at EQ, the game has been around for 17 years.....17 years!.......and is still in development, such as it is. A game they never thought would last or was designed to last this long. If this is sum of the major problems they are facing.....then they should be happy. How many games can claim that? EQ and UO? UO gets very little content from Broadsword compared to what EQ gets. Yeah, no one like nerfs, but they are going through a phase of rebalancing the classes (i think Dzarn is on the right track - coming from someone who has a wizard and a necro in a top raiding guild), i just wish they would have been a little bit more communicative about their plans upfront. However within the last year they fixed so many of the stacking issues that "couldn't be fixed" according to previous devs, which unfortunately requires rebalancing. Claiming that tons of people are leaving because of nerfs is not entirely accurate, if the last two expansions had been worth a damn on the content side, many would have stayed in spite of the class changes.
See thats where i can not totally agree, i do agree maybe the new content isnt that worthy but when you make changes to the structure so late in the game after a big Opps! isnt good for any gaming company and with the SWG thing it should have been known it can hurt a company. Right now its investment and social. If anyone was staying because of the class balance they would have left the same time i gave up. I threw up my arms and said wtf you thinking about this so late for? nobody is cheating like they claimed, or pet exploiting people where playing the game. It still took you lots of time to get through the raids, and Ha's I am talking about the COTF nerf they started.
People are also playing on the Progression servers, not as many on live. The numbers decreased, and many split directions. Warriors too. This is not a good sign for the direction of the way they handled things. Now they have a 17 year anniversary thing and no group content. What next more nerfs to your necro? seems your hit again but still showing top dps. Doesnt seem like you got hit too badly yet. The mages sure did.
So yes its a warning sign for any dev be very smart how you direction your team. Applying too many stats all at once is exactly why dzarn and roshan and many are adjusting the game now, they went too far... and who pays for that? us.
a big Opps sorry doesnt cut it in todays industry.
Personally I think more emphasis should be placed on player crafted gear. Of course you should be able to gear up by fighting in dungeons and getting loot the traditional way but if you want the gear with the best stats you should be forced to raid or to get in contact with a player crafter. I also agree that gear should not have all major stats on every slot. You should be forced to pick and choose the gear that matches your own individual play style. But player crafted gear and raid gear should be a reasonably nice step up from bog standard gear you get from a named in a dungeon crawl. This could perhaps be controlled by requiring items that only drop from high level group or raid encounters so that it isn't easy to gear up through crafted gear.
I just like the idea of having an awful lot of choice when it comes to what items you put in each slot. It makes deciding what upgrades you want so much more important. You might even need two items for the same slot in order to deal with two different situations in the game.
I actually disagree. If player crafted gear is equal to or better than dungeon drops, why bother with the dungeons? That will be a lot of people's take on it anyway. I do feel like player crafted gear needs to be valuable and needed. But better than dungeon gear, no. Player crafted gear should provide resists sets and environmental gear that everyone will need however. Some may only opt to use a few pieces of it but everyone will need at the least some.
I want regular old hard stats. It doesn't mean it's the 'right' way to do it, it's just what I like.
Tanks should have more accessibility to higher HP and DMG mitigation stat items. Monks might very well be better suited for high HP and higher DMG avoidance stats.
So in my implementation there would not be very many ALL/ALL items outside of necklaces, rings and earrings.
There is likely going to be scaling in that a plate wearing class will get a bit more HP per level at the baseline over a silk wearing class, like EQ of yesteryear.
This isn't to say some sort of scaling system for items wouldn't work. One would work just fine. I'd just prefer to keep it simple if it were me.
Enitzu said:I actually disagree. If player crafted gear is equal to or better than dungeon drops, why bother with the dungeons? That will be a lot of people's take on it anyway. I do feel like player crafted gear needs to be valuable and needed. But better than dungeon gear, no. Player crafted gear should provide resists sets and environmental gear that everyone will need however. Some may only opt to use a few pieces of it but everyone will need at the least some.
Because you'd need to do the dungeons to get some of the ingredients in order to craft the gear as I mentioned. Seems like a reasonably straight forward fix to the problem. Same with having crafted gear being better than the raid dropped gear. In order to craft it you need ingredients from the raid.
Ah but you hit it on the head enitzu why bother with dungeon drops, then if crafted gear is better or not. You force the players to get items from those dungeons if you want this piece of gear.
It will be closer to raid gear, and with special parts it can become better then raid gear. The raids still get a temp better gear, then crafted gear but once the rare parts are applied to the crafted gear it becomes much better in the end. The rare parts are hard to get in the first place, scattered drops can be across the dungeon with a % of drops.
Example
Raid gear 100hp, 100ac, 25 intel, 25 wis, 25 dex, 300 mana with 2 slots for aug bonus's slot aug1 +25hp, slot aug7 +100mana (example)
Crafted group gear stage 1 (25 hp, 25, ac, 10 intel, 5 wis, 5 dex, 0 mana with crafted slots available.) slot crafting
Crafting group gear stage 2 (75hp, 75ac, 20 intel, 20 wis, 20 dex, 200 mana with crafted slots available.) slot crafting
Crafting group gear stage 3 ( 150hp, 150ac, 30 intel, 30 wis, 30 dex 350 mana with 3 slots available for aug bonus's) slot aug 22 +25hp, slot aug 23 +100mana, slot aug 30 +10% to all nukes (example)
Augs are special drops from normal raid mobs and bosses (slots 1 and slots 7), or high end named/boss mobs in group (slots 22, slots 23, slots 30). Changes for augs to drop for raid gear are much better +% then group geared -%.
The reason why i suggested this, your not that much less as a raider, however to bring the group geared player not able to raid towards the raider is by allowing them a better chance to get geared out. (time played = bonus). I am in no way saying the group geared player should have it easy at all. It could take a few weeks to obtain better gear and then repeat parts for stages 2 and 3 to upgrade it. Augs will be hard too, since they will drop off of named/boss open world named. The chances % are much lower to drop parts. However the whole idea is to allow the player to decide? crafting - grouping, or raiding to get the faster gear.
The raider will go towards the crafted gear if its much better, since a 3rd aug slot is allowed. Which is perfectly ok since a raider is usually always playing more hours to get all the best pieces to raid with and group with.
All this would allow raiders to LFG, make groups going towards the better gear if they desire.
Its an idea... to bring group people closer to raiding and start reducing LFG issues but at the same time still have better group gear then a raider. Farming should not matter as much when all named from the current expac can drop augs, and most normal mobs drop parts for crafting. With enough possible named spawning in a grouped area should not be an issue. You have to kill mobs to spawn the named. If it is up by tracking, bonus. otherwise kill - spawn it yourself.
Crazzie said:See thats where i can not totally agree, i do agree maybe the new content isnt that worthy but when you make changes to the structure so late in the game after a big Opps! isnt good for any gaming company and with the SWG thing it should have been known it can hurt a company. Right now its investment and social. If anyone was staying because of the class balance they would have left the same time i gave up. I threw up my arms and said wtf you thinking about this so late for? nobody is cheating like they claimed, or pet exploiting people where playing the game. It still took you lots of time to get through the raids, and Ha's I am talking about the COTF nerf they started.
People are also playing on the Progression servers, not as many on live. The numbers decreased, and many split directions. Warriors too. This is not a good sign for the direction of the way they handled things. Now they have a 17 year anniversary thing and no group content. What next more nerfs to your necro? seems your hit again but still showing top dps. Doesnt seem like you got hit too badly yet. The mages sure did.
So yes its a warning sign for any dev be very smart how you direction your team. Applying too many stats all at once is exactly why dzarn and roshan and many are adjusting the game now, they went too far... and who pays for that? us.
a big Opps sorry doesnt cut it in todays industry.
Yes, the devs need to use EQ as a cautionary tale; they should use an easier to type of system to balance than EQ's system, the way the SPAs, AAs and focus effects have interacted for years has caused some crazy results. Different classes shouldn't experience multiplicative effects where others are additive, it makes balancing a nightmare. Every game that's been around a while that's had some sort of level increase from classic has performed rebalancing (nerfing) for the health of the game. They have to, hell WoW has completely reworked all the classes during Cataclysm in addition to episodic rebalancing. The only vertical progression game that i have played which hasn't gone through major rebalacing is DAoC and they never raised their level cap from classic.
I play those classes mainly, i also have a max level enchanter, cleric, druid, mage, shaman, bard and monk (boxer here). I played Wizard when they were crap and no one wanted them and i played Necro when they were nothing more than mana batteries before they became the dps powerhouses they are today, thank you unlinking dots in TSS. Yes, i agree the only class that i feel has been unfairly hit is the mage, the rain nerf was too big. I am on the fence on the past and forthcoming pet nerfs, but i also accept why they are doing them, there is clearly a plan that needs to play out.
Enitzu said:I actually disagree. If player crafted gear is equal to or better than dungeon drops, why bother with the dungeons? That will be a lot of people's take on it anyway. I do feel like player crafted gear needs to be valuable and needed. But better than dungeon gear, no. Player crafted gear should provide resists sets and environmental gear that everyone will need however. Some may only opt to use a few pieces of it but everyone will need at the least some.
^5
I hate the idea of crafting gear, aside from the rare occasion, being on par with actual loot. There's a thread on this from back in december or so.
Krixus said:Enitzu said:I actually disagree. If player crafted gear is equal to or better than dungeon drops, why bother with the dungeons? That will be a lot of people's take on it anyway. I do feel like player crafted gear needs to be valuable and needed. But better than dungeon gear, no. Player crafted gear should provide resists sets and environmental gear that everyone will need however. Some may only opt to use a few pieces of it but everyone will need at the least some.
^5
I hate the idea of crafting gear, aside from the rare occasion, being on par with actual loot. There's a thread on this from back in december or so.
YES. I am thinking crafted gear should be viable as well. I hated not even being allowed in a group because I hadn't been grinding dungeons for gear and my crafted gear was considered subpar to even play most parts of the game.
I am not a huge dungeon/raiding person, but I love crafting and gathering. I hope we don't see people punished for being more crafting/gathering/exploring oriented than raiding/dungeon oriented. I played enough games like that haha.
YES. I am thinking crafted gear should be viable as well. I hated not even being allowed in a group because I hadn't been grinding dungeons for gear and my crafted gear was considered subpar to even play most parts of the game.
I am not a huge dungeon/raiding person, but I love crafting and gathering. I hope we don't see people punished for being more crafting/gathering/exploring oriented than raiding/dungeon oriented. I played enough games like that haha.
Depends on how you run a character too, if your afk or unable to keep up to the rest of the group pull after pull and you die constantly. What is the group suppose to say? If your gear is so far underpar and your not able to survive the fight?? then what.
Crazzie said:
Depends on how you run a character too, if your afk or unable to keep up to the rest of the group pull after pull and you die constantly. What is the group suppose to say? If your gear is so far underpar and your not able to survive the fight?? then what.
I play my character not AFK. New raids/dungeons have a huge learning curve sometimes. I have much better luck with friends haha. But my point is, good gear should be obtainable via crafting as well as dungeon runs. I like the option to go either way.
BTW I am not hardcore, I play to have fun. If a group is going to kick me for not being a master player, ya I'm gonna get kicked. That's a problem I have with raiding and dungeons. Generally stick with friends than playing in random groups. FFXIV and Wow were notorious for dropping you in groups that didn't say a word to you and kicked you for any errors or questions about what to do. No fun.
Thats a huge difference, because anyone in their 40's would or should try to let you down nicely, lol what else am i going to say to that one. Today these games are full of 12 year olds. I would expect it from them and WOW is full of them. Not so much when i played but today i belive its jammed packed.
Plus this is a different game, so i expect it to be much better. I dont expect a ton of WOW 12 year olds to be here.
Crazzie said:Thats a huge difference, because anyone in their 40's would or should try to let you down nicely, lol what else am i going to say to that one. Today these games are full of 12 year olds. I would expect it from them and WOW is full of them. Not so much when i played but today i belive its jammed packed.
Plus this is a different game, so i expect it to be much better. I dont expect a ton of WOW 12 year olds to be here.
Actually, i don't believe WoW is full of 12 year olds, i think it's mainly adults who for some reason think it's ok to act like a 12 year old, which makes it worse. I have been guilded with people whose children play and they never acted like what i have seen.
Reht said:Actually, i don't believe WoW is full of 12 year olds, i think it's mainly adults who for some reason think it's ok to act like a 12 year old, which makes it worse. I have been guilded with people whose children play and they never acted like what i have seen.
Yeah, i been away from wow for a long time. 50 i think i got then bailed. It was semi ok then, but then later people said tons of foreign chineese spammers and 12 year olds where infesting the game. So i dont know really.
I wouldnt doubt what you said, trolls will be trolls. Lets pray they dont end up here.