It's a common part of fantasy to restrict weapons to classes (etc.). I don't want to see it broken because of "illusions". These arguments are raised over and over with no option that fits all. If someone wants a wizard with a war hammer, then I don't want to see it. Toggle or restrict to the lore.
Transmog is vital to MMO longevity and enjoyment.
Keeps people famring old content, making groups for nw players, alts.
Stops everyone looking the same.
Holds player retention betwen raids, so less raid logging.
Above all very fun, which mmos sorely lack.
Its one of those things if you enjoy it, it mean the world, if you dont then dont do it, literally doesnt affect you at all.
Icecream stores dont stop selling the flavours you dislike, just because you dislike them, doesnt mean you dont visit that icecream store.
Grimseethe: Icecream stores dont stop selling the flavours you dislike, just because you dislike them, doesnt mean you dont visit that icecream store.
If I dont like mint choc chip, then I am not forced to buy it, correct; however, the mint choc chip is not pretending to be raspberry ripple. If I dont like to see a wizard wielding a great sword because the lore says it shouldnt be allowed, but tansmog does allow it, you are correct in that I dont have to create one, however, I still have to experience it because someone else does create one.
Grimseethe: Transmog is vital to MMO longevity and enjoyment.
Some agree to this opinion, some dont; Lore and the telling of stories within that context is more important to the longevity of any RPG than the need to have a wand looking like a battle axe.
Grimseethe: Keeps people famring old content, ...
You state this like its a good thing? I would ask whether farming is keeping an old zone in good use. Surely it would be better to have a vibrant zone because of mix of levels and content rather than relying on the need to farm.
Grimseethe: Above all very fun, which mmos sorely lack.
It might be fun for the wielder of the great sworded wizard to run around shouting "Look at me!", but it can break the game immersion for a lot of others having to witness it, and for them it isnt fun. Transmog is not a requirement for an enjoyable mmo rpg. Some like to use it, others dont, but all will be affected if it is implemented.
The real question is whether you role play to the game's lore or role play for yourself. If you enter a world where creators have conjured a world deep in narrative and lore and they have taken time to create a believable history and class structure, then, in my opinion, you should be roleplaying to the game. If the lore is slight, disjointed or non existant, with little in the way of class distinction, then I wouldnt have an issue with players creating and wearing whatever they see fit.
Pantheon is deep in lore, it is the basis of this world, its history, its very essence and it is the basis of all game content. Breaking that lore should not be taken lightly. Why should any transmog system be the only mechanic not to be affected by lore? It should not be exempt and it should work in line with lore.
chenzeme said:...If I dont like to see a wizard wielding a great sword because the lore says it shouldnt be allowed, but tansmog does allow it...
...Lore and the telling of stories within that context is more important to the longevity of any RPG than the need to have a wand looking like a battle axe...
...It might be fun for the wielder of the great sworded wizard to run around shouting "Look at me!", but it can break the game immersion...
There's no reason whatsoever that a transmog system should or would allow this. I don't think even WoW's system did. I can't imagine VR would do it. If we are going to worry over what VR *might& do with any system, then we should also not have teleporting or auction houses or mounts or any feature that has been done badly elsewhere.
chenzeme said:Grimseethe: Keeps people famring old content, ...
You state this like its a good thing? I would ask whether farming is keeping an old zone in good use. Surely it would be better to have a vibrant zone because of mix of levels and content rather than relying on the need to farm.
I can agree here, but again, there's no reason a transmog system would encourage farming and not encourage alts of the correct level and re-playing of regions in order to obtain good-looking items for transmog.
Farming is its own issue and VR can encourage or discourage with no connection to transmog. Encouraging re-play of lower level zones and/or social interaction between levels (low level characters selling good-looking items to higher level) is essentially a good thing. Transmog simply adds another meaning to items beyond their stats: their looks.
chenzeme said:Grimseethe: Above all very fun, which mmos sorely lack.
for a lot of others having to witness it, and for them it isnt fun.
"Witness" what? The results of a crafter re-crafting an item to change it to look like another? So? I still am yet to get a reasonable answer as to why that is bad.
chenzeme said:The real question is whether you role play to the game's lore or role play for yourself. If you enter a world where creators have conjured a world deep in narrative and lore and they have taken time to create a believable history and class structure, then, in my opinion, you should be roleplaying to the game. If the lore is slight, disjointed or non existant, with little in the way of class distinction, then I wouldnt have an issue with players creating and wearing whatever they see fit.
Pantheon is deep in lore, it is the basis of this world, its history, its very essence and it is the basis of all game content. Breaking that lore should not be taken lightly. Why should any transmog system be the only mechanic not to be affected by lore? It should not be exempt and it should work in line with lore.
Again your objection appears based in an assumption that a transmog system will 'break immersion' or go against the lore. It doesn't have to. I wouldn't expect VR to do it that way.
A transmog system *can* be a great addition. It *could* also be awful. Same as any feature of the game.
Why not discuss it while keeping in mind VR could make a good job of it?
disposalist: Again your objection appears based in an assumption that a transmog system will 'break immersion' or go against the lore. It doesn't have to. I wouldn't expect VR to do it that way.
Nope! At no point did I say that the transmog system will break the lore or even assume it would. I am putting the case for why a free transmog should not be allowed. I am saying that any transmog system put in place must obey the lore otherwise you will see wizards weilding long swords. Any tansmog system could allow this. I know it doesnt have to and I never said it would! I am just ensuring that the case against it is put as fully as those that want a system that will break the lore.
chenzeme: Toggle or restrict to the lore.
Others want free reign on a transmog, I am saying this should not be the case.
I am always saddened by how many don't want gear to be viable long term and instead want a transmog system. I would much rather have players purely upgrading items if they wanted a special look.
A warm fur coat should always be a warm fur coat to fit the blizzard acclimation bonus. You may have upgraded it a dozen times to keep a certain look but its still only ideal for the one environment. You still need to wear your magical scuba gear when deep diving.
I don't want to see scuba steve running around in a blizzard because they are the same armor type.
I used to not care about changing item appearance until I played a game where all the higher end healer gear looked like robes or a dress. My non-priest healer couldn't take it after a while. I wanted to be a ble to see my pants for once! lol
As for a transmog system in Pantheon, I'm opposed to there being a toggle. I know this is a hot topic on this thread, and I wouldn't be disappointed in the devs if it's included. Kilsin wanted people's opinions and that's mine.
If we do get a transmog system, I would ideally like to see the following:
- Items can only change appearance with the same armor/weapon type. By far the most popular and requested requirement in this thread.
- Crafters do the appearance change. In the lore, they can pose it as imbuing an item with the stats of the other which will in turn be destroyed. Makes it non-immersion breaking for those who care about that. Devs would have to stay away from silly skins to pull this off. As a bonus, it could help the economy if people pay others for this.
- For item identity to remain relevant, have rare or special drops be non-transmoggable. This one I'm not 100% sure about though.
Another thought I had was having other requirements for transmog. Especially after seeing the dev stream on the ores and how those will affect how armor/weapons look (which really excited me despite being a non-crafter). I feel like transmogging will make all that work put into gear being visually identifiable a waste.
So instead, if iron ore can be used to make lvl 10-20 weapons, have it that any level 10-20 sword appearance can be swapped. Once you progress to items using a different ore, you'll have to find another look you like. It keeps item identity relevant while making people want to explore different zones within their level range for various drops.
If we have a large variety of weapons and armor within each level range, then this should appeal to those who like to customize their look as well as those who want to keep the game as realistic or immersive as possible. A healthy compromise?
