So the more I think about it, and the more I read replies... I'm somewhat inclined to change my opinion, or atleast slightly.
I really dislike the justification of "focus on other things" when it comes to features. Yes by all means finish the game but I feel like its a weak excuse to cut out a feature. Either a feature warrants being in the game or it doesn't. Do the positives outweigh the negatives. Now if we're talking about a six month delay to add a tutorial, random number don't quote it, then yeah I think that would be a case of the negative outweighing the positive and it should be skipped. I'm going to allow VR to allocate their resources and let them decided if the time sink is worth it.
Now if we are going to have a tutorial, and I feel there should be the more I think about it. I think it needs to highlight what is different about Pantheon than the other major MMOs. So this is what I would prefer. Four options upon starting a new character.
"New to Gaming"
"New to MMO's"
"New to Pantheon"
"Skip Tutorial"
New to gaming would explain the most basic elements. Movement, spells, leveling, etc. Pop up windows would probably be fine as this is the most in depth explanation. It would also explain everything seen in the two higher tutorials.
New to MMO's would skip movement. It would just explain how to group, how to message people, quick run down on a generic spell and ability. These could be completely generic and not actually exist in the game, just showing people how to read them.
New to Pantheon would just be the short and sweet "this is the features we have that are different than other MMO's on the market". Inform the player of EXP loss, corpse runs, group centric game. Nice pat on the butt and off they go.
Skip is pretty straight forward.
You're not really creating three distinct tutorials this way. You're creating one, and then pruning things out to allow people to pick the one that better fits their previous experience. As someone who has played a lot of MMOs over the years the first few levels can be extremely frustrating if you don't know how to even control your character. The game should be PvE not PvUI. There is no reason to not make the first play session of the game as welcoming as possible to new players.
The skip tutorial allows someone who doesn't want to bother with this to ignore it. They can dive directly into the game. They can discover every aspect of the game as they see fit. I see no reason though to prevent other players who desire information on how the game operates that opportunity.
Now before someone comes in and spins this another way. I'm not advocating for it to tell them how to play their class. I'm not advocating for it to tell them how to act or unravel the mysteries of the world. I'm just saying that when a new person enters the game, how to access their menu, or moving the UI around, or even exit the game, shouldn't be a mystery they need to figure out.
Optional text popup tutorial. Nothing complex. No seperate tutorialzone_01. Let those that have zero clue about text chat based mmorpgs have a popup tutorial, but let those of us that know what we are doing and dont need a tutorial the option of just dropping in and heading out. Don't hold their hand with clicky text either. Make them read the full paragraphs and click next like an ebook.
Iksar said:Don't incorporate a tutorial into the character creation cycle. If there is one then have it as a separate thing entirely, before even logging into the VR servers. At the login screen/launcher have the tutorial as something available offline.
IF they decide a tutorial is needed this is the route I would like to see them take. It could be entered right off the character creation screen, offline, anybody could do it subscription or not. They could try different races and classes.
It may even be accepted as the free trial area. Although it wouldn't demo the social aspect of the game if it were offline.
I get the idea behind wasted resources, but I am also sensitive to the new dynamics of gameplay that Pantheon will be bringing to the MMO genre that are worthy of a tutorial- at least for new players to the game- such as perception, disposition, atmospheres, and living codex.
However I feel that the way the tutorial is presented can also add to the enjoyment of the game if it is done simply, and well. I think it can be done well if it starts with plenty of "oh s**t" moments- right from the start- and the PoV is first person only. Let the tutorial immerse player, first. Once the screen resolves and you see some nice scenery, the first "oh s**t" moment should be-you are moving slower because -you are dying of thirst- -you are dying of hunger.. or something. And from first person view taught the basics, either with pop ups with W A S D and keys for crouch or even references to the manual for more sophisticated key bindings. Skills- but the player "sonandso" will have the basic skills that all players have (like fishing?) that will be taught in the tutorial maybe with pop ups and the manual will have class specific skills. Throughout all of this teach that a key- maybe F1 doesnt have to be F1 can be ~ or even mapped to something or whatever VR decides is the help key- the tutorial can say, click this key at anytime to get help- and that will be the online manual of sorts that a player can reference in game any time.
Once the tutorial is passed, then it brings the player to the character select screen and from here I imagine the player wil lbe spending time between the manual and the screen. choosing what class form the manual and then- looks from the screen, and locking in class, deity, race, on the screen.
But at the beginning the player can choose- to go to tutorial, or jump right into play. and first person, no camera toggle- deal with it, turn to look. None of this see whats behind you stuff. Live it. dont have an eye? get someone with an eye and deal.
-is it too late to ask for a swivel head function while seated?, maybe keys E and Q? quarter turn right and left. even useable with running and walking instead of having to turn and run in that direction.
no tutorial . just tooltips for the main hotkeys, and character menus/inventory etc.
no WASD and auto attack tutorials.
some MMOs have interract button (on F/E or G), make sure people know that it exists. thats all.
in order to get crafting/gathering , the crafting quest is a very short tutorial that explains the basics.
Nephele said:1) There should be a "tutorial" that walks players through the basics of interacting with the world and NPCs.
- This tutorial should be something that players can choose to skip. For ease of implementation, this tutorial could be completely separate from normal play characters - meaning that people could choose to do it before character creation.
- This tutorial should not attempt to provide any story or anything. It should literally just be "Here is how to move, here is how to target an opponent, here is how to attack, here is how to hail an NPC, etc" - very similar to the original tutorial for EQ
2) There should be a "story introduction" to the world for a character's chosen race, similar to Vanguard.
- This should consist of a themed introduction that guides the character through their first level or two while introducing them to the backstory of their chosen race.
- Players should be able to opt out of this experience in some way if desired.
Yes!! 100%
Kilsin said:Community Debate - Should Pantheon have a tutorial and if so, what would you like to see included? Please explain your answer. #MMORPG #communitymatters
Honestly, too early in development to decide. Depending on the complexity of the entry levels will give you an answer. I think some of the best in-game tutorials teach by clever game design.
Game tutorials are a toughy. On one side, you could have players who are really new to gaming, discovered Pantheon and is now one of their first MMO's.
On another side, you don't want to have to hold their hand right at the beginning. The idea is to explore and figure the world out for oneself.
Maybe you can offer a tutorial option, and if they choose this you could design a very small area for the player to explore, or copy paste part of the world into the tutorial and use it as the "tutorial world". And it's not pop ups that get shown to them, but rather an NPC guide. One that talks or where they have to read, which ever. And they basically give them a "tour" around their UI, and the basic fundamentals of Pantheon. The NPC could start off by saying "Hey, you over there, come here!" or something along those lines, and beckon the player to come over to them. It has to a be little obvious since they are new players who obviously need the tutorial. But it would be a good start since Pantheon doesn't offer "?'s" or "!'s" over NPC's heads if they have a quest for someone.
Tutorials don't need to be excessive or overly informative. Just enough to give the player an idea of what Pantheon is about. Have the NPC guide go through some of the basics, interractables within the world that the NPC will bring them to, etc, show them climbing, whatever. And then put in some hidden interractables. That way if they find them and it wasn't part of the guide, they know they have to explore the whole world in order to locate new shinys or quests!
When the question arises of whether or not a game should have "whatever" then the next question should be..
is it possible to have "whatever" as an option ?
In the case the answer is quite easy. Yes, include it but make it optional.
For those that would benefit and enjoy a tutorial there it is and for those that do not want it for whatever reason they can choose not to use it.
Wobels said: If i remember correctly in EQ i first started a Dwarf and it dropped me in the foothills right outside Kaladim looking at lvl1 scarabs. There was no tutorial if i remember right it was a little confusing, as this was the first Mmorpg i had played. But it was also exciting because I figured out what I needed on my own, no one was holding my hand. As long as we know the buttons, hot keys I think its more exciting just figuring the rest of it all out at first I was worried about the guards at the gates and avoided kaladim until I realized we were on the same side. That was what 20years ago and its still one of my most memorable things in a game.
Pyye said: I have to agree, it is not designed to be a hand holding game, so therefore, dive in and ask questions if needed. This only helps the social aspect anyway. A tutorial that is story based for lore would be nice but not on how to play the game.
How will I know how to ask questions? I was thinking about this. How will I know what commands are for messaging people, how to use chat channels. How am I suppose to know /ooc is out of character? Is it /tell or /whisper? Is it /group /party or something different? Understanding the UI is not something that consumers should be told to figure out IMO.
Questaar said:Imo a tutorial is a must. There are features in PROTF that are new to mmos. It should be something that a person can skip if they want. I know this is a focused game, but we must help the noobs who are first timers.
You're not the first to say this in this thread, I'm just using you're post as an example.
So my question goes out to all in this thread that have tried to make this point.
WHAT new features are in PROTF that so justify a tutorial?
EppE said:A searchable HELP file lIke 99% of any software anybody ever bought. Probably a button that says HELP to get to it and maybe even keybound to the F1 key again like 99% of any software ever sold.How will I know how to ask questions? I was thinking about this. How will I know what commands are for messaging people, how to use chat channels. How am I suppose to know /ooc is out of character? Is it /tell or /whisper? Is it /group /party or something different? Understanding the UI is not something that consumers should be told to figure out IMO.
Pretty simple solution, I don't understand why this question keeps coming up.
I'll add that this button could simply call up a document on their Web site where they could have easy access to update it, we could view it in a browser or even print all of it or portions. For example we could print a list of all emotes to hang on our wall for easy reference.
There’s climate, atmospheres, and items to mitigate them. There will be no in game maps, no glowing Trail to follow, no “talk to this npc to get a quest”, talk to this guy to get a reward, no flying mounts, no magic ball to teleport to any zone you want. Grouping will be mostly necessary. The quaternary will be new to some instead of just a bunch of dps types zerging through content. I know people who played EQ for twenty levels before they knew they had to buy food. I look back on EQ and all the new folks who wanted to get in on the fun. I’m hoping Pantheon will be similar and attract people that have never played before.
Zorkon said:Questaar said:Imo a tutorial is a must. There are features in PROTF that are new to mmos. It should be something that a person can skip if they want. I know this is a focused game, but we must help the noobs who are first timers.
You're not the first to say this in this thread, I'm just using you're post as an example.
So my question goes out to all in this thread that have tried to make this point.
WHAT new features are in PROTF that so justify a tutorial?
Questaar said:
There’s climate, atmospheres, and items to mitigate them. There will be no in game maps, no glowing Trail to follow, no “talk to this npc to get a quest”, talk to this guy to get a reward, no flying mounts, no magic ball to teleport to any zone you want. Grouping will be mostly necessary. The quaternary will be new to some instead of just a bunch of dps types zerging through content. I know people who played EQ for twenty levels before they knew they had to buy food. I look back on EQ and all the new folks who wanted to get in on the fun. I’m hoping Pantheon will be similar and attract people that have never played before.
Zorkon said:Questaar said:Imo a tutorial is a must. There are features in PROTF that are new to mmos. It should be something that a person can skip if they want. I know this is a focused game, but we must help the noobs who are first timers.
You're not the first to say this in this thread, I'm just using you're post as an example.
So my question goes out to all in this thread that have tried to make this point.
WHAT new features are in PROTF that so justify a tutorial?
ALL of which could be covered as good if not better in a simple help file.
Edit: oh and by the way, 20 levels without buying food in EQ, never happened. I was there dude. I ran out of food and found out about it by the message repeated over and over in my chat window that I was hungry. It wasn't the end of the world or game breaking.. it was part of the adventure.
Zorkon said:ALL of which could be covered as good if not better in a simple help file.
Edit: oh and by the way, 20 levels without buying food in EQ, never happened. I was there dude. I ran out of food and found out about it by the message repeated over and over in my chat window that I was hungry. It wasn't the end of the world or game breaking.. it was part of the adventure.
So then your issue isn't that there is a tutorial, or guide, its how its presented? In game is bad but a pdf is good? I don't see how forcing people to reference a text file is somehow not game breaking but having an in game tips window or tutorial is.
