Forums » Crafting

One Tradeskill Per Player?

    • 511 posts
    April 17, 2017 9:51 AM PDT

    For me this decision is both unimportant and irrelevant for everything .

    Tradeskilling players (I call Tradeskilling players those who spend more than 1/3 of their time in an MMO on Trade skills), will do all Tradeskills on a single character if it is allowed . And if it isn't, they will create the adequate number of alts to have all Tradeskills anyway .

    So basically this Pantheon announce changes nothing on the game play and it certainly doesn't create any "interdependence" for Tradeskilling players . What it does though (and this is a rather positive feature in my mind) is to make Tradeskilling  players discover other races and classes than their main . For instance I created a Gnome for Tinkering in EQ and it gave me the opportunity to discover Ak'Anon and Stonebrunt Mts what I would have probably never done if it was not necessary to be a Gnome to tinker .

    So in fact I am quite happy with that choice .

    • 113 posts
    April 17, 2017 10:21 AM PDT

    Deadshade said:

    For me this decision is both unimportant and irrelevant for everything .

    Tradeskilling players (I call Tradeskilling players those who spend more than 1/3 of their time in an MMO on Trade skills), will do all Tradeskills on a single character if it is allowed . And if it isn't, they will create the adequate number of alts to have all Tradeskills anyway .

    So basically this Pantheon announce changes nothing on the game play and it certainly doesn't create any "interdependence" for Tradeskilling players . What it does though (and this is a rather positive feature in my mind) is to make Tradeskilling  players discover other races and classes than their main . For instance I created a Gnome for Tinkering in EQ and it gave me the opportunity to discover Ak'Anon and Stonebrunt Mts what I would have probably never done if it was not necessary to be a Gnome to tinker .

    So in fact I am quite happy with that choice .

    Personally, I only play one character (a main if you will). If the idea is to force people to play other characters (races), I have to respectfully disagree with at least part of your comment.

    I prefer to pick what I want to play (not be forced into it).

    :)

    • 1385 posts
    April 17, 2017 12:17 PM PDT

    Bonechip said:

    Deadshade said:

    For me this decision is both unimportant and irrelevant for everything .

    Tradeskilling players (I call Tradeskilling players those who spend more than 1/3 of their time in an MMO on Trade skills), will do all Tradeskills on a single character if it is allowed . And if it isn't, they will create the adequate number of alts to have all Tradeskills anyway .

    So basically this Pantheon announce changes nothing on the game play and it certainly doesn't create any "interdependence" for Tradeskilling players . What it does though (and this is a rather positive feature in my mind) is to make Tradeskilling  players discover other races and classes than their main . For instance I created a Gnome for Tinkering in EQ and it gave me the opportunity to discover Ak'Anon and Stonebrunt Mts what I would have probably never done if it was not necessary to be a Gnome to tinker .

    So in fact I am quite happy with that choice .

    Personally, I only play one character (a main if you will). If the idea is to force people to play other characters (races), I have to respectfully disagree with at least part of your comment.

    I prefer to pick what I want to play (not be forced into it).

    :)

    There not forcing you to do anything, if you don't want to make another character in a certain ome city than you'll just ave to grind rep with them, and that is only if you want to make a specific item and a component that is required to make it is in that city, if you never decide to make that item than you can easily just skip making the character, and grind the rep all in one blow.

    • 1848 posts
    April 18, 2017 2:16 PM PDT

    It does not CREATE the interdependence,  but encourages it. No different that not having tank, dps, cc, and heals on every toon. Those that don't want interdependence will just have alts and hang out with their guild.

    But, for everyone else, it encourages interdependence. 

    • 101 posts
    April 18, 2017 2:35 PM PDT

    I think people think leveling a tradeskill will be done in a day, instead of the fact that it's supposed to take a really long long long time to level in general.

    • 708 posts
    May 9, 2017 12:16 PM PDT

    I actually just mentioned about this in another thread and I have an idea that I think would give a reason for not allowing players to master every craft on one character.

    In a discussion over giving crafters the ability to enhance no drop items, even no drop raid items, the question was asked 'how would this be handled'? How would you give a crafter your no drop raid sword for them to enhance/enchant? Possibly hand them your sword temporarily for them to boost?

    First, I'll say I don't like the idea of handcuffing players to a single craft. Limitations imposed by the game itself are always bad in my eyes. I don't see anything wrong with a single character being able to learn all crafting categories. I also don't see anything wrong with only allowing a player to master ONE crafting type while still being able to learn as many secondary crafts as they want. The way I would handle it would be either make it SUPER EXTREMELY difficult to learn every single craft. OR only allow a single character to master one craft.

    One good reason for mastering only one crafting type would be for the ability to enhance no drop items including raid items. Instead of allowing crafters to enhance other players no drop raid items and mucking up the no drop realm of things let's give crafters the ability to solely enhance their own items. This would give reason to thoughtfully selecting a mastery as well as just giving players a reason to craft in the first place. The example I gave was over a warrior who could master either weapon smithing or armor smithing and eventually obtaining the ability to enhance/enchant their own weapons or armor. Obviously a good trade off in power would have to exist because a single player can carry much more armor at any given time than they can their weapons. But I think this could be a great way to allow players to enhance no drop items as well as give players a reason to begin crafting annnnnnddd as well as give players who spend so much of their time dedicated to crafting a cherry on top of all their hard work.

    • 126 posts
    May 11, 2017 8:21 AM PDT

    the reason to limit each char to one crafting skill, is because crafting is very easy to make sure everyone can "enjoy" it. in EQ that restriction was not neccessary because you could hardly master one crafting skill, even less multiples. i liked the EQ system better. everyone being a crafter is boring. remember, it's a RPG, not an economic game.

    • 511 posts
    May 11, 2017 8:31 AM PDT

    Bonechip said:

    Deadshade said:

    For me this decision is both unimportant and irrelevant for everything .

    Tradeskilling players (I call Tradeskilling players those who spend more than 1/3 of their time in an MMO on Trade skills), will do all Tradeskills on a single character if it is allowed . And if it isn't, they will create the adequate number of alts to have all Tradeskills anyway .

    So basically this Pantheon announce changes nothing on the game play and it certainly doesn't create any "interdependence" for Tradeskilling players . What it does though (and this is a rather positive feature in my mind) is to make Tradeskilling  players discover other races and classes than their main . For instance I created a Gnome for Tinkering in EQ and it gave me the opportunity to discover Ak'Anon and Stonebrunt Mts what I would have probably never done if it was not necessary to be a Gnome to tinker .

    So in fact I am quite happy with that choice .

    Personally, I only play one character (a main if you will). If the idea is to force people to play other characters (races), I have to respectfully disagree with at least part of your comment.

    I prefer to pick what I want to play (not be forced into it).

    :)

     

    I do not think it "forces" anybody to anything and I come again back to my EQ example .

    If you wanted to Tinker in EQ, you HAD to be a Gnome . But as nothing forced you to Tinker, nothing forced you to play a Gnome . However if you absolutely wanted to Tinker, then yes you had to have a Gnome character . Now nobody ever complained or was upset on EQ about this fact which was besides completely consistent with the Lore .

    I see it completely identical to the Pantheon's announce . Nobody is forced to master multiple (all ?) Tradeskills . Yet if you want to do it, it is still feasible but you'll have to create alts . On top it might also very well be that some Tradskills (like in EQ) will only be available to some races/classes .

    Personally I would have preferred to be able to do more Tradeskills on a single character (provided of course that they were not wildly different and/or inconsistent with the Lore) but I am not upset that it is not the case because I know that if I decide to master all Tradeskills (I will), there is a way to do it by creating a few  alts .

    • 185 posts
    May 15, 2017 12:01 AM PDT

    NoobieDoo said:

    In a discussion over giving crafters the ability to enhance no drop items, even no drop raid items, the question was asked 'how would this be handled'? How would you give a crafter your no drop raid sword for them to enhance/enchant? Possibly hand them your sword temporarily for them to boost?

    Have you got a link to that thread?

    • 708 posts
    May 15, 2017 10:37 PM PDT

    corpserunner said:

    NoobieDoo said:

    In a discussion over giving crafters the ability to enhance no drop items, even no drop raid items, the question was asked 'how would this be handled'? How would you give a crafter your no drop raid sword for them to enhance/enchant? Possibly hand them your sword temporarily for them to boost?

    Have you got a link to that thread?

    Sure thing! On page 4 of...

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/6100/-/post-create/quote_id/112466

    The thread topic is actually about 'end-game' and raiding but we got into discussing this bit about some improvement system that I guess is going to be in crafting. As per Cromulent...

    Cromulent said:

    Yeah the improvement thing has me really excited. I just want to see how it will be implemented. My biggest question about the improvement system is will crafters be able to improve NO DROP loot and if so how will that work if the other player has already looted it? Hopefully some system will be put in place that will allow NO DROP loot to be improved and I'll certainly be looking out for more information on that side of things.

    • 8 posts
    May 24, 2017 3:21 AM PDT

    Well I just hope we are going to have enough slots to make one of each crafter because crafting is just about my favorite thing to do in MMOs. in FFXIV I have all the crafting and gathering on one character, if I can't do that here I am going to want to be able to experience all the crafting skills.  Only being able to have one makes me twitchy.

    • 54 posts
    May 24, 2017 8:04 AM PDT

    I don't think it's a terrible fact to have 1 tradeskill per character. On the contrary. If people really want to do some crafting, they'll have to work it up. It makes sense that one character would actually master a field. Although there was a valid point about being able to only master 1 skill and still level the others, I personally am of a mind to have 1 craft per toon to encourage the exploration of the game on various levels with different characters and the likes.

     

    • 353 posts
    May 25, 2017 7:24 AM PDT

    Gating tradeskills at one per character really does nothing to foster interdependencies all it does is cause people to have a stable of crafting alts.

     

    You would have to do this somehow on an acount wide level in order to actually have any beneficial effects.

     

    Maybe tradeskills just won't be that useful so a lot of people won't bother. Will have to just wait and see how it all plays out.

     

     

    Thanks,

    Kiz~

    • 52 posts
    September 8, 2017 9:00 PM PDT

    Whether one player can or multiple alts are required to acquire multiple tradeskills, it should take the same amount of time to master any one of them. If it takes 500 hours of game play to master a trade, it will still take a player 1000 hours to master two of them, wherther or not they use one character of two.

    I'm in the camp for making trade skill mastering difficult and the worst thing that they can do is dumb it down later and make it easy. It destroys a player's investment in the game.

    Side note: Old EQ story. I had a friend who was all set up to skill though a nighmare level in blacksmithing to finally be able to do some real smithing and the next day they changed all the recipes in that transtion. We caculated that it would take another 100 hours using the new recipes. He quit the next week.

     

    • 1430 posts
    September 26, 2017 7:40 AM PDT

    This is an awesome discussion!  Just wanted to add my viewpoint :)

    As a player, I really want to be able to eventually do/try all crafting.  However.... I don't mind using alts to do that.  A few people have pointed out that restricting characters so they can't do everything really helps the social aspect of the game, because crafters then need other crafters.  So on that basis, I could live with a limitation on tradeskills on a given character... as long as I could make alts to do those tradeskills.

    I'm also in agreement with gelfzin right before me - each tradeskill should take a significant time investement to master.  Tradeskill progression pacing is probably worth an entire topic of its own, but in general:

    • Progression should be slow.  People shouldn't be able to level/skill up to max in a few days or even a couple of weeks.
    • Low-level crafters should be able to produce things that people want to buy/use, consistently.  Players shouldn't feel like they have to level up to max just to participate in the economy.
    • There should be interdependency in crafting where people need things that are produced by other crafters.  This promotes crafters working together.
    • 1331 posts
    October 4, 2017 9:24 AM PDT

    There were comments by devs that one example of a progeny reward might be to carry over a tradeskill into your next run.  That's likely how you will be able to master all the tradeskills... 1 play through at a time.  I expect you to only be able to master 1 skill per run. Discuss...

    • 3247 posts
    October 4, 2017 10:00 AM PDT

    If we have to choose between rolling over a tradeskill profession or something tied into adventuring, I would go with the latter every time.  If tradeskills can also carry over then I would just create a master crafter by rolling a crafting toon over and over until he learned every profession.  I definitely wouldn't level both to max on the same character if I could only choose one sphere to carry over into progeny as that would be a really inefficient use of time.  In the crafting example used, I don't think they talked about rolling an entire profession over.  I thought it would be something more like rolling over a skill or trait from one profession onto the next which is similar to what I would expect from adventuring.  At the same time though I doubt we'll even see that ... class interdependance is supposed to be important and I have seen comments from people who said they would roll a monk just to get FD on their wizard.  I don't see multi-classing or subclassing happening in Pantheon.  I'm hoping the rewards for progeny are pretty potent but again that isn't really how I have perceived it will work.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at October 4, 2017 10:04 AM PDT
    • 581 posts
    October 5, 2017 8:07 AM PDT

    What I think a lot of people aren't thinking about is how much crafting added to EQ1. Being able to have all crafts up to a point while maxing 1-2 is the best route in my opinion because it adds another side to the game that they can push into.

    With only having 1 tradeskill, you are effectively eliminating the possibility of having the epic crafting quests. Coldain shawls and such. You could make the arguement that having everything tradable would fix that since it would simply force you to rely on others but the fact is a lot of people prefer to be self sufficient. Myself included. So even if we can only have 1 tradeskill, I'd simply have an alt for every trade which makes the entire point redundant. 

    It also goes against everything that people have been fighting for on these forums which is freedom. That's why this thread (granted I haven't read through the whole thing) actually is surprising me lol

    • 253 posts
    October 5, 2017 9:56 AM PDT

    Only thing that worries me is char slot count as im a serious gameoholic and want to explore everyting im afraid my slots wont let me try out every craft without havin to delete another char if i get enough slot i dont mind any solution as i get to try em out without deleting.


    This post was edited by Grizzly at October 5, 2017 10:04 AM PDT
    • 4336 posts
    October 5, 2017 10:54 AM PDT

    Grizzly said:

    Only thing that worries me is char slot count as im a serious gameoholic and want to explore everyting im afraid my slots wont let me try out every craft without havin to delete another char if i get enough slot i dont mind any solution as i get to try em out without deleting.

    At the very least, you can always have multiple accounts. It looks like you'll certainly be able to have one of each profession on an account, but maybe not enough to have one of each specialty.

    • 3 posts
    October 6, 2017 12:43 PM PDT
    A jack of all trades should be a master of none and that should be reflected in the game in all aspects - class, faction alignments, skill lines.
    • 4 posts
    October 30, 2017 5:37 PM PDT

    Evetrealle said: A jack of all trades should be a master of none and that should be reflected in the game in all aspects - class, faction alignments, skill lines.

    I was thinking the very same thing! 

    I apologize if I am repeating something already mentioned. Interdependence, in my opinion, is a huge part of this game. Being able to do everything yourself or at least the more rewarding things yourself is not how it works in the real world. Being able to contribute my particular skillset and having to rely on anothers' skillset is one of the reasons that I am anticipating this game so much. I am in favor of the game mechanics severly restricting the ability for one player to become independent or mostly independent. I am not saying "make it impossible." I am saying make it so EXTREMELY prohibitive that it is only heard of in ledgends. This may also be disincentive for gold sellers.  

     

    Khopir

    • 181 posts
    November 3, 2017 12:07 PM PDT

    one crafting skill  (armorsmith, weaponsmith, carpenter, goldsmith, taylor , alchemist etc )

    one gathering skill (mining, logging, foraging (aka herbalism), skinning etc  )

    one secondary skill  (fishing, cooking, mapmaking, etc)

    • 126 posts
    November 18, 2017 2:14 PM PST

    Enitzu said:the fact is a lot of people prefer to be self sufficient. Myself included.

    then they (and you) should not be playing pantheon. this game is all about NOT being self-sufficient.


    This post was edited by letsdance at November 18, 2017 2:15 PM PST
    • 192 posts
    November 19, 2017 12:40 AM PST

    Letsdance ... ok, even though I agree with the underlying sentiment, i don't think it's in anyone's interest to say who should and shouldn't play the game. State the facts and let people decide for themselves.

    The facts are that this is a group based game with some solo play envisaged but not much. You are going to need the help of others and that includes being able to craft. Self sufficient is not where this game is headed. In a world of solo playable games we need one that brings players together. 


    This post was edited by chenzeme at November 19, 2017 12:44 AM PST