He mentioned fog of war type, the maps will fill out with more details
i didn't put together the "Google Map" comments with the player marker. Could be!
I really hope this is true, but will not hold my breathe. I hope there is a type of map even if it doesnt tell you where you are, just a general map of the zone and it becomes clear when you have adventured into that area... having no map at all i think is a little to harsh in today's gaming era, but thats just my opinion.
That's the 2nd time that VR has confirmed this, to my knowledge. In Mar 2021 Developer Roundtable, JN was the guest and he "read Joppa's clarification about maps" to the audience. I believe that Joppa was in chat for the DRT, but I wasn't there so I could be wrong. Anyway, according to JN, Joppa said "no plans for a mini-map. There will be a topographical map - most likely 'fog of war' style - with the ability for players to make their own notes, place their own symbols, etc. This of course feeds into the potential of a cartography system."
Jothany said:That's the 2nd time that VR has confirmed this, to my knowledge. In Mar 2021 Developer Roundtable, JN was the guest and he "read Joppa's clarification about maps" to the audience. I believe that Joppa was in chat for the DRT, but I wasn't there so I could be wrong. Anyway, according to JN, Joppa said "no plans for a mini-map. There will be a topographical map - most likely 'fog of war' style - with the ability for players to make their own notes, place their own symbols, etc. This of course feeds into the potential of a cartography system."
Feastycentral said:I'm hoping you can see yourself on the map when you're standing on a POI. Otherwise getting your bearings when you're initially learning the large zones might be really tough unless the landmarks really stand out from a distance.
In the open world, as long as they have a single landmark and a compass you can pretty easily navigate anywhere. Being required to think a few seconds is a good for immersion.
I know it sounds silly old man ranting, but forcing players to understand how to use maps is a good skill to build. Too many people have no idea how to use paper maps. I don't know how they survive going on hikes or anything, I guess they just bring enough batteries.
An in-game map is simply a computer representation of what the character can see, or has already seen and noted. If I am walking through an unknown area and mapping it I will presumably be noting visible points of interest with a focus on things that will help me know where I am. Hills, rivers, lakes, cities, buildings and the like. It is self-evidently true that I will know where I am in relation to these features. So if I note a mountain to the north I will know I am south of it and have some idea of how far south of it.
While I would definitely disagree with having magical maps - things that show something that I would not know if I was there (like potential enemies that I did not see or hear) - I fai to see a reason not to show where the character is since this is so central to real-world mapping.
For me the answer to that question just has to do with the question "how much of the game should be player ability vs character ability?" My character is obviously better at many things in this magical world than I am in our real world. How much should I be depending on my character and how much should my character be depending on me? For me there is a sliding scale answer to that question for each different thing my character does on Terminus.
Iksar said:A map with no marker for the player is fine. If my character has been through an area then so have I and if I can't remember things about the places I have been then neither can my character.
Then when you need to go to a new place for work or leasure, you never use a map of any kind ?
I have a particular problem. I get lost in a one way. For real. Not having any sort of map would make it hard for me.
I am however for paper/cloth maps that can be bought / found and that correspond to the overall knowledge that people of the town/region have of the place.
Such maps should be more or less accurate, not showing you on it.. but they could certainly spur action and exploration.
Imagine you arrive for the first time to ThroneFast and you buy a map that gives you a vague direction of the goblin caves entrance. Without any prior knowledge, you know have some incentive
to go look for this place.
or may be there would be some NPC selling you a map, or giving you a map after the completion of some quest. The NPC promised some silver but actually, doesn't have any because he is a poor schmuck, but he has this map with a treasure on it. He got it from his grand-father, but he never found the place.
My desire: a map that has the "fog of war" effect of only filling in as I explore. It only shows POI that I have walked close to and looked at for x seconds or had to make a note on my map manually. Also I would prefer the map be the type that looks hand drawn and scribbled upon .
The maps in Sea of Thieves come to mind for the style. But if there was no map at all and we had to use colored pencils and make our own at home I'm fine with that too because I like doing that.
StoneFish said:The maps in Sea of Thieves come to mind for the style. But if there was no map at all and we had to use colored pencils and make our own at home I'm fine with that too because I like doing that.
I'll pay you a few gold to scan your color pencil maps and email me a copy.
dorotea said: While I would definitely disagree with having magical maps - things that show something that I would not know if I was there - I fail to see a reason not to show where the character is since this is so central to real-world mapping.
I think I must be misunderstanding you. You disagreed with having magical maps, but see no reason for the map to not show where you are - as it is central to real world mapping.
I've never seen or heard of a map in the real world that I could carry around and it would always have a dot on it telling me where I am. The ability to figure out where I am on a map has always been step one of using that map in the real world. Having a "you are here" dot on a map would definitely be a 'magical ability' to me.
I wonder if maps will only be for the open areas or will they include dungeons and with the complexity of some places will they be overly simplistic-one layer one (in which case I'd rather be without any map), layered or 3D.
I don't mind no player marker, but I hope for a map that we can put our own notes and markers! Cartograpgy skill would also be appreciated!
I want an 'orientation' option that has the map cover half the screen and a compass displaying on the bottom. We should be allowed to draw temporary lines on the map to replicate drawing your bearings to specific landmarks in order to see where the lines cross (and thus determine your position).
I want us to be able to buy various types of maps and the only landmarks on them should be medium to large cities. Points of Interest should all get added only by visiting them.
I hope the fog of war is shading and not full blackness since the world is already known and it doesn't take high wisdom to know how important it is to buy a map before heading out.
I hope that different maps come with written instructions on how to find a limited number of POIs. Something that reads like an adventure and not like step-by-step instructions. "Head due North to the misty woods and listen for the roar of the hidden waterfall. Follow it up stream until you find the ruins of a ince mighty castle. From there, . "
Jothany said:dorotea said: While I would definitely disagree with having magical maps - things that show something that I would not know if I was there - I fail to see a reason not to show where the character is since this is so central to real-world mapping.I think I must be misunderstanding you. You disagreed with having magical maps, but see no reason for the map to not show where you are - as it is central to real world mapping.
I've never seen or heard of a map in the real world that I could carry around and it would always have a dot on it telling me where I am. The ability to figure out where I am on a map has always been step one of using that map in the real world. Having a "you are here" dot on a map would definitely be a 'magical ability' to me.
I think it depends on how one views mapping in the first place. To me - a map is not a piece of paper that my character is carrying around. If it was - showing where the character was would indeed be "magical". To me a map is how a computer game allows the player to understand what the character sees. The character knows where he or she is - and knows major points of interest visible to the character as he or she travels. The character knows quite well where points of interest are vis a vis himself or herself.
Now if the game allows players to make and sell maps and I am using one of those maps - a piece of paper - then I entirely agree that the character's location should not be shown. But that is not what we are talking about when we discuss a map with fog of war - we are discussing a graphical representation of what the character sees - what the *player* would see if somehow translated into the game.
I'm actually not sure what the value in the "fog of war" part of the maps is. If we're given (or earn or buy or whatever), a topographical map that we can mark up, why would we need to be at a specific location to be able to do that? If I meet up with a friend in a tavern and we both pull out our maps should we be able to compare notes? Should I be able to make marks on my map based on the info he shares with me?
Ranarius said:I'm actually not sure what the value in the "fog of war" part of the maps is. If we're given (or earn or buy or whatever), a topographical map that we can mark up, why would we need to be at a specific location to be able to do that? If I meet up with a friend in a tavern and we both pull out our maps should we be able to compare notes? Should I be able to make marks on my map based on the info he shares with me?
Fog of war represents what the character has seen and does not represent what the character has not seen. It is a graphic representation for the player of what the character sees.
A map purchased from another player should have neither fog of war nor a representation of where the character is.