oneADseven said:Kass said:@disposalist
I haven't kept up with the thread lately, but I saw an idea that there be some sort of idicator (albeit sublte) on the nameplate, character, or character pane, to denote that a player is using appearance gear.
Just wondering thoughts from your side of the house on that one.
TBH, the more I've thought about it, I'm more on the side for having it. My main concerns were PvP, but now that I realize that lack of PvP interest VR seems to be putting into the game, I might just play PvE. It's a little disheartening because world PvP has always been an aspect of MMOs I thoroughly enjoy.
Either way, I still would like to see it take significant effort to actually acquire/use appearance gear (ie through crafting, fees, material turn-in).
I suggested something to that effect a few pages back. I had another suggestion early on in the thread that didn't get much traction but the basic idea was to tie the perception system into all of this. Let's assume that players have a subtle indicator as discussed. (It's also worth considering that this indicator is potentially connected to the passive "insight" skill.) This informs folks that the player they are looking at is utilizing at least 1 appearance slot. From there, they have a few choices to try and learn more about the character in question. They can /inspect the character that is using the appearance slots and see what they have equipped (in both standard and appearance slots). If that player has /inspect disabled then they can message them and request for them to turn it back on. It really just depends on the situation. The other option would be using the "investigate" skill that is tied to the perception system. If your investigate skill is high enough to work on the player you are targeting, it would allow you to temporarily "see through" their appearance slots and potentially uncover other sorts of information as well. I feel this would be a pretty good compromise that actually makes sense in the context of a living/breathing world and would add some value to one of the flagship features of this game. What do you think?
Or we can get a toggle...repeat, repeat, repeat, and than you repeat repeat, repeat, and than I........................
Riahuf22 said:oneADseven said:Kass said:@disposalist
I haven't kept up with the thread lately, but I saw an idea that there be some sort of idicator (albeit sublte) on the nameplate, character, or character pane, to denote that a player is using appearance gear.
Just wondering thoughts from your side of the house on that one.
TBH, the more I've thought about it, I'm more on the side for having it. My main concerns were PvP, but now that I realize that lack of PvP interest VR seems to be putting into the game, I might just play PvE. It's a little disheartening because world PvP has always been an aspect of MMOs I thoroughly enjoy.
Either way, I still would like to see it take significant effort to actually acquire/use appearance gear (ie through crafting, fees, material turn-in).
I suggested something to that effect a few pages back. I had another suggestion early on in the thread that didn't get much traction but the basic idea was to tie the perception system into all of this. Let's assume that players have a subtle indicator as discussed. (It's also worth considering that this indicator is potentially connected to the passive "insight" skill.) This informs folks that the player they are looking at is utilizing at least 1 appearance slot. From there, they have a few choices to try and learn more about the character in question. They can /inspect the character that is using the appearance slots and see what they have equipped (in both standard and appearance slots). If that player has /inspect disabled then they can message them and request for them to turn it back on. It really just depends on the situation. The other option would be using the "investigate" skill that is tied to the perception system. If your investigate skill is high enough to work on the player you are targeting, it would allow you to temporarily "see through" their appearance slots and potentially uncover other sorts of information as well. I feel this would be a pretty good compromise that actually makes sense in the context of a living/breathing world and would add some value to one of the flagship features of this game. What do you think?
Or we can get a toggle...repeat, repeat, repeat, and than you repeat repeat, repeat, and than I........................
Or, just let players decide how they look, not others. There is no reason to let another player decide how my character looks.
Beefcake said:Riahuf22 said:oneADseven said:Kass said:@disposalist
I haven't kept up with the thread lately, but I saw an idea that there be some sort of idicator (albeit sublte) on the nameplate, character, or character pane, to denote that a player is using appearance gear.
Just wondering thoughts from your side of the house on that one.
TBH, the more I've thought about it, I'm more on the side for having it. My main concerns were PvP, but now that I realize that lack of PvP interest VR seems to be putting into the game, I might just play PvE. It's a little disheartening because world PvP has always been an aspect of MMOs I thoroughly enjoy.
Either way, I still would like to see it take significant effort to actually acquire/use appearance gear (ie through crafting, fees, material turn-in).
I suggested something to that effect a few pages back. I had another suggestion early on in the thread that didn't get much traction but the basic idea was to tie the perception system into all of this. Let's assume that players have a subtle indicator as discussed. (It's also worth considering that this indicator is potentially connected to the passive "insight" skill.) This informs folks that the player they are looking at is utilizing at least 1 appearance slot. From there, they have a few choices to try and learn more about the character in question. They can /inspect the character that is using the appearance slots and see what they have equipped (in both standard and appearance slots). If that player has /inspect disabled then they can message them and request for them to turn it back on. It really just depends on the situation. The other option would be using the "investigate" skill that is tied to the perception system. If your investigate skill is high enough to work on the player you are targeting, it would allow you to temporarily "see through" their appearance slots and potentially uncover other sorts of information as well. I feel this would be a pretty good compromise that actually makes sense in the context of a living/breathing world and would add some value to one of the flagship features of this game. What do you think?
Or we can get a toggle...repeat, repeat, repeat, and than you repeat repeat, repeat, and than I........................
Or, just let players decide how they look, not others. There is no reason to let another player decide how my character looks.
Theres no reason why i cant see adventure gear, when cosmetic gear breaks my immersion into the game, remember we have to stick to game tenets right, so instead of trying to tell me what i can and can not do maybe we should just follow the tenets and have that be the deciding factor.
Riahuf22 said:Theres no reason why i cant see adventure gear, when cosmetic gear breaks my immersion into the game, remember we have to stick to game tenets right, so instead of trying to tell me what i can and can not do maybe we should just follow the tenets and have that be the deciding factor.
Maybe read the game tenants before relying on them for your argument.
No where in the tenants are appearance gear mentioned. Nothing about appearance gear breaks any of the stated tenants.
In fact, your immersion comments are not based in the tenants.
This is clearly about combat and group mechanics. Appearance gear has no effect on that.
Again, about players and NPC being intelligent and taking intelligent actions/responses. Appearance gear has no effect on that.
Beefcake said:Riahuf22 said:Theres no reason why i cant see adventure gear, when cosmetic gear breaks my immersion into the game, remember we have to stick to game tenets right, so instead of trying to tell me what i can and can not do maybe we should just follow the tenets and have that be the deciding factor.
Maybe read the game tenants before relying on them for your argument.
Game Tenets
- An awareness that content is king.
- A requirement that classes have identities. No single player should be able to do everything on their own.
- A belief that game economies should be predicated on delaying and minimizing item value deflation.
- A commitment to a style of play that focuses on immersive combat, and engaging group mechanics.
- An understanding that a truly challenging game is truly rewarding.
- An expectation that with greater risk will come greater reward.
- An understanding that player involvement is required for progression. All actions (or lack thereof) should have consequences. Positive actions should be rewarded. Apathy or lack of action should not be rewarded with bonuses.
- A belief that meaningful character progression will always involve a player increasing in both power and prestige.
- A mindset that some degree of downtime should be part of a game, ensuring players have time to form important social bonds.
- A belief that an immersive world requires intelligent inhabitants.
- An understanding that faction and alignment should be an integral part of interacting with the world and its citizens.
- A sincere commitment to creating a world where a focus on cooperative play will attract those seeking a challenge.
- A belief that the greatest sense of accomplishment comes when it is shared - and earned.
- An agreement that player levels should be both meaningful and memorable.
- An assertion that player vs. environment should involve more than NPCs -- Engage the World!
No where in the tenants are appearance gear mentioned. Nothing about appearance gear breaks any of the stated tenants.
The devs have clearly said they are trying to create an immersive and shafred world for all to enjoy, but that isn't in your list but is obviously a huge goal they are trying to accompolish so where you might of actually proved me wrong you also proved 1AD7 wrong, but at the same time we know we are correct they are trying to create an immersive world for all to share. So if you are trying to say that they are not trying to make an immserive world so your cosmetic feature can exsist, i can clearly say it doesn't say it have to be a shared one so i can decide to not see it.
But lets just pretend that a tenet of the game is to make an Immersive shared world which is what everyone wants.
Beefcake said:Or, just let players decide how they look, not others. There is no reason to let another player decide how my character looks.
Goodness sake Beefcake! And you had just accused me of designing the game..
Riahuf22 said:The devs have clearly said they are trying to create an immersive and shafred world for all to enjoy, but that isn't in your list but is obviously a huge goal they are trying to accompolish so where you might of actually proved me wrong you also proved 1AD7 wrong, but at the same time we know we are correct they are trying to create an immersive world for all to share. So if you are trying to say that they are not trying to make an immserive world so your cosmetic feature can exsist, i can clearly say it doesn't say it have to be a shared one so i can decide to not see it.
But lets just pretend that a tenet of the game is to make an Immersive shared world which is what everyone wants.
Someone's immersion will be broke by every decision the designers make:
MDD v FTE
Brokers v. Individual sales
Voice v. Text chat
Fast travel v. Walking everywhere
Sitting during combat or not
No matter what choice they make on just about every issue, someone will claim it ruins their immersion.
Appearance gear is no different. They have to make a choice and hope that the game will end up being as immersive as possible for as many as possible.
Of all the issues they have to decide, appearance gear breaks immersion far less than anything else.
For me, it's one of the most important issues for immersion. Nothing breaks my immersion more than knowing that someone else gets to choose what I look like, after I have spent significant effort to style my character to represent me.
Your demands to control how I appear breaks my immersion. A shared world means you see me as I see me. Its not shared if we are seeing everyone different. Appearance gear doesn't break a shared world. A toggle breaks a shared world.
Beefcake said:Riahuf22 said:The devs have clearly said they are trying to create an immersive and shafred world for all to enjoy, but that isn't in your list but is obviously a huge goal they are trying to accompolish so where you might of actually proved me wrong you also proved 1AD7 wrong, but at the same time we know we are correct they are trying to create an immersive world for all to share. So if you are trying to say that they are not trying to make an immserive world so your cosmetic feature can exsist, i can clearly say it doesn't say it have to be a shared one so i can decide to not see it.
But lets just pretend that a tenet of the game is to make an Immersive shared world which is what everyone wants.
Someone's immersion will be broke by every decision the designers make:
MDD v FTE
Brokers v. Individual sales
Voice v. Text chat
Fast travel v. Walking everywhere
Sitting during combat or notNo matter what choice they make on just about every issue, someone will claim it ruins their immersion.
Appearance gear is no different. They have to make a choice and hope that the game will end up being as immersive as possible for as many as possible.
Of all the issues they have to decide, appearance gear breaks immersion far less than anything else.
For me, it's one of the most important issues for immersion. Nothing breaks my immersion more than knowing that someone else gets to choose what I look like, after I have spent significant effort to style my character to represent me.
Your demands to control how I appear breaks my immersion.
than give me toggle, you get to share you experience with like minded individuals, and i get to live my experience with like minded individuals, you get to see all the cosmetic gear and the way you want, i get to see all the adventure gear and everything i want, its a better fit, other than you forcing me to see something i dont want to, and you being happy, when both parties and be partially happy. toggle is a better fit, thats the reason games have so many of them.
Riahuf22 said:Beefcake said:Riahuf22 said:The devs have clearly said they are trying to create an immersive and shafred world for all to enjoy, but that isn't in your list but is obviously a huge goal they are trying to accompolish so where you might of actually proved me wrong you also proved 1AD7 wrong, but at the same time we know we are correct they are trying to create an immersive world for all to share. So if you are trying to say that they are not trying to make an immserive world so your cosmetic feature can exsist, i can clearly say it doesn't say it have to be a shared one so i can decide to not see it.
But lets just pretend that a tenet of the game is to make an Immersive shared world which is what everyone wants.
Someone's immersion will be broke by every decision the designers make:
MDD v FTE
Brokers v. Individual sales
Voice v. Text chat
Fast travel v. Walking everywhere
Sitting during combat or notNo matter what choice they make on just about every issue, someone will claim it ruins their immersion.
Appearance gear is no different. They have to make a choice and hope that the game will end up being as immersive as possible for as many as possible.
Of all the issues they have to decide, appearance gear breaks immersion far less than anything else.
For me, it's one of the most important issues for immersion. Nothing breaks my immersion more than knowing that someone else gets to choose what I look like, after I have spent significant effort to style my character to represent me.
Your demands to control how I appear breaks my immersion.
than give me toggle, you get to share you experience with like minded individuals, and i get to live my experience with like minded individuals, you get to see all the cosmetic gear and the way you want, i get to see all the adventure gear and everything i want, its a better fit, other than you forcing me to see something i dont want to, and you being happy, when both parties and be partially happy. toggle is a better fit, thats the reason games have so many of them.
Your demands to control how I appear breaks my immersion. A shared world means you see me as I see me. Its not shared if we are seeing everyone different. Appearance gear doesn't break a shared world. A toggle breaks a shared world.
Beefcake said:Riahuf22 said:Beefcake said:Riahuf22 said:The devs have clearly said they are trying to create an immersive and shafred world for all to enjoy, but that isn't in your list but is obviously a huge goal they are trying to accompolish so where you might of actually proved me wrong you also proved 1AD7 wrong, but at the same time we know we are correct they are trying to create an immersive world for all to share. So if you are trying to say that they are not trying to make an immserive world so your cosmetic feature can exsist, i can clearly say it doesn't say it have to be a shared one so i can decide to not see it.
But lets just pretend that a tenet of the game is to make an Immersive shared world which is what everyone wants.
Someone's immersion will be broke by every decision the designers make:
MDD v FTE
Brokers v. Individual sales
Voice v. Text chat
Fast travel v. Walking everywhere
Sitting during combat or notNo matter what choice they make on just about every issue, someone will claim it ruins their immersion.
Appearance gear is no different. They have to make a choice and hope that the game will end up being as immersive as possible for as many as possible.
Of all the issues they have to decide, appearance gear breaks immersion far less than anything else.
For me, it's one of the most important issues for immersion. Nothing breaks my immersion more than knowing that someone else gets to choose what I look like, after I have spent significant effort to style my character to represent me.
Your demands to control how I appear breaks my immersion.
than give me toggle, you get to share you experience with like minded individuals, and i get to live my experience with like minded individuals, you get to see all the cosmetic gear and the way you want, i get to see all the adventure gear and everything i want, its a better fit, other than you forcing me to see something i dont want to, and you being happy, when both parties and be partially happy. toggle is a better fit, thats the reason games have so many of them.
Your demands to control how I appear breaks my immersion. A shared world means you see me as I see me. Its not shared if we are seeing everyone different. Appearance gear doesn't break a shared world. A toggle breaks a shared world.
Immersion is to be deeply mentally involved, , how the heck can i "break" your immersion when you can't even see my computer screen as it is a visual effect, it can't and you wouldn't even know im not using it unless i told you and if it didn't break your immersion before knowing it can't break your feeling afterwards becuase nothing changed other than the knowledge of something that didn't effect you at all.
But seeing cosmetic gear upon impact of me seeing it instantly breaks my immersion, you don't have to tell me if your using it, after a while i will tell immediately, either by your level you are compared to what you are wearing along with some other things, and if you are going to pick and choose, would you rather your immersion be broke upon impact of seeing someone that hurts your immersion or what you say hurts your immersion only through knowledge of someone telling you which isn't actually immersion but i'll give it to you to prove my point. Instant immersion breaking features should be able to opted out of, or simply not allowed into the game, their sholdn't be a discussion on if they have a chance to ruined someone immserion, they should be looked at if they are accepted can people who want their immserion intact have an option to keep it that way.
As cosmetic gear is optional to do, Adventure gear isn't, So Cosmetic gear should be optional to see, not Adventure gear.
Riahuf22 said:Beefcake said:Riahuf22 said:Beefcake said:Riahuf22 said:The devs have clearly said they are trying to create an immersive and shafred world for all to enjoy, but that isn't in your list but is obviously a huge goal they are trying to accompolish so where you might of actually proved me wrong you also proved 1AD7 wrong, but at the same time we know we are correct they are trying to create an immersive world for all to share. So if you are trying to say that they are not trying to make an immserive world so your cosmetic feature can exsist, i can clearly say it doesn't say it have to be a shared one so i can decide to not see it.
But lets just pretend that a tenet of the game is to make an Immersive shared world which is what everyone wants.
Someone's immersion will be broke by every decision the designers make:
MDD v FTE
Brokers v. Individual sales
Voice v. Text chat
Fast travel v. Walking everywhere
Sitting during combat or notNo matter what choice they make on just about every issue, someone will claim it ruins their immersion.
Appearance gear is no different. They have to make a choice and hope that the game will end up being as immersive as possible for as many as possible.
Of all the issues they have to decide, appearance gear breaks immersion far less than anything else.
For me, it's one of the most important issues for immersion. Nothing breaks my immersion more than knowing that someone else gets to choose what I look like, after I have spent significant effort to style my character to represent me.
Your demands to control how I appear breaks my immersion.
than give me toggle, you get to share you experience with like minded individuals, and i get to live my experience with like minded individuals, you get to see all the cosmetic gear and the way you want, i get to see all the adventure gear and everything i want, its a better fit, other than you forcing me to see something i dont want to, and you being happy, when both parties and be partially happy. toggle is a better fit, thats the reason games have so many of them.
Your demands to control how I appear breaks my immersion. A shared world means you see me as I see me. Its not shared if we are seeing everyone different. Appearance gear doesn't break a shared world. A toggle breaks a shared world.
Immersion is to be deeply mentally involved, , how the heck can i "break" your immersion when you can't even see my computer screen as it is a visual effect, it can't and you wouldn't even know im not using it unless i told you and if it didn't break your immersion before knowing it can't break your feeling afterwards becuase nothing changed other than the knowledge of something that didn't effect you at all.
But seeing cosmetic gear upon impact of me seeing it instantly breaks my immersion, you don't have to tell me if your using it, after a while i will tell immediately, either by your level you are compared to what you are wearing along with some other things, and if you are going to pick and choose, would you rather your immersion be broke upon impact of seeing someone that hurts your immersion or what you say hurts your immersion only through knowledge of someone telling you which isn't actually immersion but i'll give it to you to prove my point. Instant immersion breaking features should be able to opted out of, or simply not allowed into the game, their sholdn't be a discussion on if they have a chance to ruined someone immserion, they should be looked at if they are accepted can people who want their immserion intact have an option to keep it that way.
As cosmetic gear is optional to do, Adventure gear isn't, So Cosmetic gear should be optional to see, not Adventure gear.
To answer your question... I would rather your immersion be broke than mine.
Beefcake said:Riahuf22 said:Beefcake said:Riahuf22 said:Beefcake said:Riahuf22 said:The devs have clearly said they are trying to create an immersive and shafred world for all to enjoy, but that isn't in your list but is obviously a huge goal they are trying to accompolish so where you might of actually proved me wrong you also proved 1AD7 wrong, but at the same time we know we are correct they are trying to create an immersive world for all to share. So if you are trying to say that they are not trying to make an immserive world so your cosmetic feature can exsist, i can clearly say it doesn't say it have to be a shared one so i can decide to not see it.
But lets just pretend that a tenet of the game is to make an Immersive shared world which is what everyone wants.
Someone's immersion will be broke by every decision the designers make:
MDD v FTE
Brokers v. Individual sales
Voice v. Text chat
Fast travel v. Walking everywhere
Sitting during combat or notNo matter what choice they make on just about every issue, someone will claim it ruins their immersion.
Appearance gear is no different. They have to make a choice and hope that the game will end up being as immersive as possible for as many as possible.
Of all the issues they have to decide, appearance gear breaks immersion far less than anything else.
For me, it's one of the most important issues for immersion. Nothing breaks my immersion more than knowing that someone else gets to choose what I look like, after I have spent significant effort to style my character to represent me.
Your demands to control how I appear breaks my immersion.
than give me toggle, you get to share you experience with like minded individuals, and i get to live my experience with like minded individuals, you get to see all the cosmetic gear and the way you want, i get to see all the adventure gear and everything i want, its a better fit, other than you forcing me to see something i dont want to, and you being happy, when both parties and be partially happy. toggle is a better fit, thats the reason games have so many of them.
Your demands to control how I appear breaks my immersion. A shared world means you see me as I see me. Its not shared if we are seeing everyone different. Appearance gear doesn't break a shared world. A toggle breaks a shared world.
Immersion is to be deeply mentally involved, , how the heck can i "break" your immersion when you can't even see my computer screen as it is a visual effect, it can't and you wouldn't even know im not using it unless i told you and if it didn't break your immersion before knowing it can't break your feeling afterwards becuase nothing changed other than the knowledge of something that didn't effect you at all.
But seeing cosmetic gear upon impact of me seeing it instantly breaks my immersion, you don't have to tell me if your using it, after a while i will tell immediately, either by your level you are compared to what you are wearing along with some other things, and if you are going to pick and choose, would you rather your immersion be broke upon impact of seeing someone that hurts your immersion or what you say hurts your immersion only through knowledge of someone telling you which isn't actually immersion but i'll give it to you to prove my point. Instant immersion breaking features should be able to opted out of, or simply not allowed into the game, their sholdn't be a discussion on if they have a chance to ruined someone immserion, they should be looked at if they are accepted can people who want their immserion intact have an option to keep it that way.
As cosmetic gear is optional to do, Adventure gear isn't, So Cosmetic gear should be optional to see, not Adventure gear.
To answer your question... I would rather your immersion be broke than mine.
Clearly, but again your immersion or the way you are seeing the world isn't really being affected at all, you get to see peoples adventure gear that decide not to use cosmetic gear and see peoples cosmetic gear that want to be like minded to you, so visually nothing is being damaged at any level of what the world is trying to present to you, as if i can't opt out what could be 50% of the player base could be damaging my immersion simply by seeing them, wihtout having any Social interaction at all or anything other than seeing them, but of course you being the purists on the other side of the spectrum you don't see anything wrong with that, as your last statement and others have proved that.
Riahuf22 said:Clearly, but again your immersion or the way you are seeing the world isn't really being affected at all, you get to see peoples adventure gear that decide not to use adventure gear and see peoples cosmetic gear that want to be like minded to you, so visually nothing is being damaged at any level of what the world is trying to present to you, as if i can't opt out what could be 50% of the player base could be damaging my immersion simply by seeing them, wihtout having any Social interaction at all or anything other than seeing them, but of course you being the purists on the other side of the spectrum you don't see anything wrong with that, as your last statement and others have proved that.
No, you just don't understand my immersion. You only see yours. Simply knowing that your toggle option invalidates my meaningful choices, breaks my immersion.
I agree with your statement, immersion is deeply mental. Your immersion is based on how you choose to see others. My immersion is based on how I choose to present myself to the world.
In the end, no matter what choice VR makes, some immersion will be broken. I am just being honest that I would rather it be yours then mine.
Beefcake said:Riahuf22 said:Clearly, but again your immersion or the way you are seeing the world isn't really being affected at all, you get to see peoples adventure gear that decide not to use adventure gear and see peoples cosmetic gear that want to be like minded to you, so visually nothing is being damaged at any level of what the world is trying to present to you, as if i can't opt out what could be 50% of the player base could be damaging my immersion simply by seeing them, wihtout having any Social interaction at all or anything other than seeing them, but of course you being the purists on the other side of the spectrum you don't see anything wrong with that, as your last statement and others have proved that.
No, you just don't understand my immersion. You only see yours. Simply knowing that your toggle option invalidates my meaningful choices, breaks my immersion.
I agree with your statement, immersion is deeply mental. Your immersion is based on how you choose to see others. My immersion is based on how I choose to present myself to the world.
In the end, no matter what choice VR makes, some immersion will be broken. I am just being honest that I would rather it be yours then mine.
You realize Immersion mean: "Deep Mental Involvement."
How can a visual effect you can not see affect you being mentally involved in a game that you are playing? You can't your just being "Fragile" as you said to me, again for a "Visual Effect" to hurt your immserion you actually have to see it.
Which you can't so therefore it isn't, your using a word that doesn't describe what you are meaning, your simply just using it so it sounds like it is doing sometihng it isn't.
· Immersion (the technical term for immersing oneself in an artificial world) describes the effect caused by a situation, environment or graphic representation which makes the user’s consciousness recede into the background so that the virtual environment is perceived as reality.
No where is this describtion does it say anything about anything you have been describing, but has been everything I have been describing, so again your using it wrong.
Riahuf22 said:· Immersion (the technical term for immersing oneself in an artificial world) describes the effect caused by a situation, environment or graphic representation which makes the user’s consciousness recede into the background so that the virtual environment is perceived as reality.
No where is this describtion does it say anything about anything you have been describing, but has been everything I have been describing, so again your using it wrong.
You can pick and choose from the definition all you want, still doesn't make your viewpoint the only valid choice.
You miss the most important parts your definition:
Immersing ONESELF in an artificial world
The effect caused by... graphical REPRESENTATION... PERCEIVED AS REALITY.
Of course I prefer a different definition of immersion: absorbing involvement.
In order to be truly immersed, just like in any book or story, you need to be able to visualize the main character as a representation of yourself. The most immersive part of a MMO is bonding with your character, becoming your character in your mind.
You can't discount my need to ensure that my representation of myself in the shared world matters just as much to me as you feeling the need to see what you want to see. That's the best part of games, within the rules allowed, we get to be what we cannot in real life.
One of things I hated in EQ2 is when they added the alternate/SOGA models. Basically, they upgraded the models, including have, shapes, facial features, etc. Then, they gave you the option of which version you wanted to see everyone in. https://www.everquest2.com/news/imported-eq2-enus-2075
This is basically like the toggle some people are asking for.
You could create a character using the SOGA models, spend a good amount of time designing your base appearance. Then, look at someone else's screen and see that you looked like a complete nightmare, because the options you chose in your model were completely different than what the other person saw on their screen if they chose the option to continue to use the original models. On your screen, you had flowing red hair. On their screen, you had a yellow mullet.
It was terrible to see that, and quite immersion breaking, especially when you watched streams that you were a part of and the streamer was using the old models. What you intended to look like your virtual representation ended up looking like a clown when streamed to the rest of the world.
Please, don't do that to us with a toggle. Let us make conscious and meaningful choices of we are in Terminus. If nothing else, understand that we have terrible choices in real life about how we get to appear to others. Most of us are honestly looking for an escape from reality.
Riahuf22 said: Picking and choosing words and twisting them to fit your description does you no justice. But you can keep trying to do that but I am reading it clearly as what it means. Graphical representation previewed as reality, as in what you SEE, as I said a visual effect and sense you can't see my computer screen it doesn't affect you at all! We can keep going around in circles all you want,. But what I am describing is immersion What you are wanting is for your "character" to be shared. And as I said you can share your cosmetic feature with like minded individuals, the mere fact you think I'm going to have an interest in the way you look that you look so hard on when I know it is essentially fake is going to fall short as I tell you how I feel about cosmetic gear and than you probably than continue to call me a toxic player, as it could all of been avoided with a toggle.
All day, you try to tell me what effects my immersion and what doesn't. Clearly, you don't understand. I feel for you. I understand that you have a limited concept of immersion and that works for you. You do not know or care about what effects my immersion and that's fine for you. You can shout it from the rooftop all day, it doesn't make it right.
Choosing how my character appears to others is a significant part of my immersion. You can't change that.
Riahuf22 said: And again with we are going to stay as true as possible to a goal the devs have laid out from us they should take away Cosmetic gear completely and have it be Adventure gear only, that why this balancing act wouldn't even be nesscary, as the whole shared and immersive experience would never be affected by such features and therefore always remain true to the goals the devs have laid out for us.
You keep adding YOUR definition of what THEIR goals are.
Instead of trying to Interpret their intent, just argue your intent. Leave it up to them to define their intent.
Clearly, you and I will never agree on what matches their stated goals, because they have not stated them clearly. They are meant to be vague, to allow them wiggle room when they announce their final decisions. Eventually, they will clarify their positions, like they have with the whole FTE v MDD stance.
Until then, you do a great disjustice to them, trying to pick and choose, warping the vague statements, imposing your beliefs into their stated positions.
Riahuf22 said: Lol I find it funny how I can give you a definition of immersion and you still continue to use it wrong, but keep going and keep using it wrong and I'll keep looking at you like a person that use words incorrectly and sit back and drink my beer smiling.
And I gave you a different definition, based on the commonly accepted English dictionary.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/immersion
Words only have real meaning when the definitions match. You and I disagree on what immersion means, including the causes of it. Continuing to argue along that path is meaningless. You can continue with the beer induced thought process and I will continue to explain my viewpoint. The Internet will continue to exist. Pantheon will continue to be developed. And I will continue to have faith in a great team that I believe understands what immersion really means.