For as long people aren't going to compromise from this purists point of view their will be nothing solved, especially with comments like this:
None of that matters. Having a shared experience is literally a core pillar of this game. Creating visual disparity between players ruins that. 2 out of 3 people seeing the same thing is not a shared experience. You do not compromise game tenets, regardless of what players want.
If we are truly going to acompolish this than simply take out Cosmetic Gear, Adventure gear is simply more important. Cosmetic gear is merely a feature that some people can enjoy, but shouldn't be forced onto others just becuase they want it to be that way.
So the way i see it is that people treat cosmetic gear like a feature that should be respected by like minded individuals, but should be able to opt out of if they wished too.
Syrif said:Disposalist - Teleportation and healing are not appearances. Reminder: this is going to be a world, less so a game. A sword will be a sword. A breastplate will be a breastplate. Don’t like what you are wearing? Then adventure, acquire, and equip what you want to wear instead. Lol. No circle needed. This thread is just silly, as others have pointed out. :) That’s all.
Syrif said:I am definitely against the appearance slots & transmog that is discussed in this thread.
It's the devs that came up with appearence slots and the devs that made this thread, but it's "just silly"?
It *will* be a world. A fantasy world. Full of magic. Don't like the look of what you're wearing? Then adventure, acquire and take that gear to an enchanter-crafter and turn it into a magical accessory to transform the look of another piece of equipment. But, *that's* "just silly"? Teleportation across the world, bringing people back from the dead and a thousand other magical miracles (including enchanters' illusions) are all fine, though?
disposalist said:It *will* be a world. A fantasy world. Full of magic. Don't like the look of what you're wearing? Then adventure, acquire and take that gear to an enchanter-crafter and turn it into a magical accessory to transform the look of another piece of equipment. But, *that's* "just silly"? Teleportation across the world, bringing people back from the dead and a thousand other magical miracles (including enchanters' illusions) are all fine, though?
LOL! Yes, it doesn’t take a genius to see that this thread has become silly. Disposalist - let me remind you that in Pantheon an Enchanter is a class and NOT a profession like in lame World of Warcraft. Lol, I’m so glad it’s most likely not going to go that direction... /puke. Anyway, I have gotten some good laughs on this thread. Not going to engage in the circle to whatever you say next. I’m going Illusionary here ;) Get it? :p
Don’t like what you are wearing? Then adventure, learn, acquire, and equip something else instead.
Zorkon said:Syrif said:Don’t like what you are wearing? Then adventure, learn, acquire, and equip something else instead.
Exactly
If you don't like the appearance of what you are wearing then go on an adventure, acquire something you like, and then equip it in an appearance slot. It's the exact same process.
Many folks do not view this as good gameplay:
Zorkon said:I think appearance should be a factor in how players outfit themselves. It could be a good deterrent to min maxing if every slot having BIS made the player look like a circus clown.
Is it really worth fighting over that one extra AC if your helm in going to look like a pineapple?
My examples are extreem to get my point across, but choices should matter shouldn't they?
Pantheon is supposed to be a challenging game. Players shouldn't have to sacrifice survivability just to avoid looking like a clown. This is exactly why appearance slots have been a huge quality of life improvement in other games. Choices should matter. Appearance slots provide plenty of choices for players to pursue the look that they desire. This feature provides a ton of horizontal progression and it's extremely easy to implement and manage. It allows player-driven goals to thrive and reinforces a variety of game tenets that make up the foundation of the game. This seems like a layup to me. Perhaps there can be a "1999 Server" that features zero innovation for people who like that sort of thing.
oneADseven said:Zorkon said:Syrif said:Don’t like what you are wearing? Then adventure, learn, acquire, and equip something else instead.
Exactly
If you don't like the appearance of what you are wearing then go on an adventure, acquire something you like, and then put it in an appearance slot. It's the exact same process.
The problem is having something appear as something that it’s not. The only class that is an Illusionist is the Enchanter. The Summoner can summon a powerful pet, that does NOT mean that every class should be able to summon a powerful pet. Classes are going to be unique and very different from each other, this isn’t WoW. Let me kindly remind you that the Enchanter in this game is a class, not a profession like WoW.
Appearance slots/transmog is a bad path for Pantheon to even toy with.
oneADseven said:Zorkon said:Syrif said:Don’t like what you are wearing? Then adventure, learn, acquire, and equip something else instead.
Exactly
If you don't like the appearance of what you are wearing then go on an adventure, acquire something you like, and then equip it in an appearance slot. It's the exact same process.
Many folks do not view this as good gameplay:
Zorkon said:I think appearance should be a factor in how players outfit themselves. It could be a good deterrent to min maxing if every slot having BIS made the player look like a circus clown.
Is it really worth fighting over that one extra AC if your helm in going to look like a pineapple?
My examples are extreem to get my point across, but choices should matter shouldn't they?
Pantheon is supposed to be a challenging game. Players shouldn't have to sacrifice survivability just to avoid looking like a clown. This is exactly why appearance slots have been a huge quality of life improvement in other games. Choices should matter. Appearance slots provide plenty of choices for players to pursue the look that they desire. This feature provides a ton of horizontal progression and it's extremely easy to implement and manage. It allows player-driven goals to thrive and reinforces a variety of game tenets that make up the foundation of the game. This seems like a layup to me. Perhaps there can be a "1999 Server" that features zero innovation for people who like that sort of thing.
And you can share this with like minded individuals, and have the ones that don't want to see it, have what they want, it that simple, or you can kiss your appearance gear good bye and have a nice day, in no way is costmetic gear more important that adventure gear and should never be viewed that way so if your going to try to take away my option to see your adventure gear than i hope they take away you apearance gear all together and the community can thank you for it, have a nice day.
Syrif said:oneADseven said:Zorkon said:Syrif said:Don’t like what you are wearing? Then adventure, learn, acquire, and equip something else instead.
Exactly
If you don't like the appearance of what you are wearing then go on an adventure, acquire something you like, and then put it in an appearance slot. It's the exact same process.
The problem is having something appear as something that it’s not. The only class that is an Illusionist is the Enchanter. The Summoner can summon a powerful pet, that does NOT mean that every class should be able to summon a powerful pet. Classes are going to be unique and very different from each other, this isn’t WoW. Let me kindly remind you that the Enchanter in this game is a class, not a profession like WoW.
Appearance slots/transmog is a bad path for Pantheon to even toy with.
Strawman arguments don't really add anything to the discussion. The idea that enchanters would be tied into the appearance system was a suggestion, not a rule that could be twisted into some class balance argument. Rangers will have an ability that allows them to forage materials from the world. Using your logic, the harvesting system would compromise that and make every character a ranger and thus make the game like WoW. See how that doesn't work?
No, I don’t see how what you are trying to say works AD7. Illusion is core to the enchanter class. It doesn’t mean every class should be able to do that. Summoning is core to the summoner, and that doesn’t mean every class should be able to summon food/water and a pet. Really need to be looking at the Enchanter as a class and not a profession. Anyway, I’ll take your own advice and ignore your “strawman” trigger word.
The appearance slot isn’t going to work in Pantheon AD7. This thread is just too comical lol. *Slips back into illusion and vanishes*
Syrif said:No, I don’t see how what you are trying to say works AD7. Illusion is core to the enchanter class. It doesn’t mean every class should be able to do that.
Great. I wasn't trying to justify your strawman argument. I was highlighting how it doesn't apply to the context of what is being discussed. Foraging is core to the ranger class. The existence of a harvesting system does not mean that every class can forage even though harvesting and foraging function in a similar capacity.
oneADseven said:Syrif said:No, I don’t see how what you are trying to say works AD7. Illusion is core to the enchanter class. It doesn’t mean every class should be able to do that.
Great. I wasn't trying to justify your strawman argument. I was highlighting how it doesn't apply to the context of what is being discussed. Foraging is core to the ranger class. The existence of a harvesting system does not mean that every class can forage even though harvesting and foraging function in a similar capacity.
Lol how is foraging core to the Ranger class AD7?? How is it core to any class for that matter? Funniest thing on this thread. :) Actually, to use an example here entire races including Iksars and Wood Elves could forage in old EQ. You just *can not* say foraging is central to a class. Summoner is The Summoner, Enchanter is The Illusionist. This thread is funny (it’s also funny how you accuse people of throwing trigger words when you do just that).
Enchanter likely gets false appearances if there are any. *slips into the illusions and vanishes again*
If cosmetic is allowed, the toggle is allowed, no reason to have one without the other, stop fighting, its a losing battle, much like how /hidehelm will be in, or disabling shadows, and many other things that could technically break your immserion, but if its on my screen than why the heck does it matter so much to you, it doesn't your blowing it out of proportion in every possible way to have some kind of arguement that in the long run won't have much side effect if the toggle is allowed.
Syrif said:Lol how is foraging core to the Ranger class AD7?? How is it core to any class for that matter? Funniest thing on this thread. :) Actually, to use an example here entire races including Iksars and Wood Elves could forage in old EQ. You just *can not* say foraging is central to a class. Summoner is The Summoner, Enchanter is The Illusionist. (it’s also funny how you accuse people of throwing trigger words when you do just that). This thread is funny.
*slips into the illusions and vanishes again*
You should check out the class page for rangers. They get an ability called "forage" that has its very own subsection of examples. It allows them to forage materials from the earth that can be used for a variety of tonics/saps/balms. It is highly likely that the harvesting system provides a similar function, where players can extract materials from the earth that can then be used in a recipe for creating tonics or balms. The point is that your strawman was conflating an appearance slot system with illusions from the enchanter class. If you try to do that with the harvesting system and foraging from the ranger class, the same result is achieved.
The cooking profession does not undermine the summoner class just because they can make food. The blacksmith profession does not undermine the summoner class just because they can make weapons and armor. The rogue class does not undermine the climbing system just because they can summon rope. The appearance slot system stands on its own merit. Again, the idea of tying enchanters to the apperance system was merely a suggestion, not an open invitation to derail the discussion with strawman arguments centered around class identity.
Syrif said:Lol how is foraging core to the Ranger class AD7?? How is it core to any class for that matter? Funniest thing on this thread. :) Actually, to use an example here entire races including Iksars and Wood Elves could forage in old EQ. You just *can not* say foraging is central to a class. Summoner is The Summoner, Enchanter is The Illusionist. This thread is funny (it’s also funny how you accuse people of throwing trigger words when you do just that).
Enchanter likely gets false appearances if there are any. *slips into the illusions and vanishes again*
1AD7 - False appearances is very much central to this thread lol. And as I mentioned, foraging is not all that the Ranger is about. To compare Ranger’s foraging to the Summoner’s summoning or the Enchanter’s illusions is absurd. Other classes and entire races have been able to forage since oh geez the 1990s? Lol. Again, if there are false appearances it’s likely going to be the Enchanter. Perhaps realize that people don’t like your appearance slots idea and accept it? I have no idea what you celebrate today, but happy wishes to you. ~
Wheres the toggle to turn off this debate? Yall have duked it out long enough. Time to let the devs decide. Syrif - 1ad7 - Riahuf22 - I love your passion for this game. The argument you three have had really outlines all the pros and cons of the system/s. I respect all of your opinions and thank you for your spent energys in this thread. Look forward to seeing our game complete, as well as you guys moving onto the next topic.
Syrif said:1AD7 - False appearances is very much central to this thread lol. And as I mentioned, foraging is not all that the Ranger is about. To compare Ranger’s foraging to the Summoner’s summoning or the Enchanter’s illusions is absurd. Other classes and entire races have been able to forage since oh geez the 1990s? Lol. Again, if there are false appearances it’s likely going to be the Enchanter. Perhaps realize that people don’t like your appearance slots idea and accept it? I have no idea what you celebrate today, but happy wishes to you. ~
Illusions are not all that the enchanter is about, either. They are a part of their overall kit, just like foraging is part of the ranger kit. Appearance slots are not my idea. I don't particularly care if other people do not like them ... this is inevitable for pretty much any feature/system/mechanic. I do care, however, when people use strawman arguments to undermine what they bring to the table. I do care when people create slippery slope arguments and pass them off as fact. Doing that appears as intentional fearmongering and contributes to unnecessary derailing when new people join the discussion. We have seen more than enough of that throughout this thread. Happy wishes to you and yours.
Alyonyah said:Wheres the toggle to turn off this debate? Yall have duked it out long enough. Time to let the devs decide. Syrif - 1ad7 - Riahuf22 - I love your passion for this game. The argument you three have had really outlines all the pros and cons of the system/s. I respect all of your opinions and thank you for your spent energys in this thread. Look forward to seeing our game complete, as well as you guys moving onto the next topic.
Agreed. :) And by the way, you listed 3 people, I would add more to your list lol. Alyonyah: if you‘ve read the thread, you will see I mentioned that this thread is silly. I saw it more as fun than serious. But yes, time to move on. This thread is silly after all.
Alyonyah said:Wheres the toggle to turn off this debate? Yall have duked it out long enough. Time to let the devs decide. Syrif - 1ad7 - Riahuf22 - I love your passion for this game. The argument you three have had really outlines all the pros and cons of the system/s. I respect all of your opinions and thank you for your spent energys in this thread. Look forward to seeing our game complete, as well as you guys moving onto the next topic.
I don't really have anything else to add to this discussion and would be happy to move on. Unfortunately, there have been a lot of comments that seem to purposely misrepresent one side of the debate. When I see those, I feel compelled to respond. I can't promise anything but I will try to resist that temptation moving forward. Cheers!
oneADseven said:Syrif said:1AD7 - False appearances is very much central to this thread lol. And as I mentioned, foraging is not all that the Ranger is about. To compare Ranger’s foraging to the Summoner’s summoning or the Enchanter’s illusions is absurd. Other classes and entire races have been able to forage since oh geez the 1990s? Lol. Again, if there are false appearances it’s likely going to be the Enchanter. Perhaps realize that people don’t like your appearance slots idea and accept it? I have no idea what you celebrate today, but happy wishes to you. ~
Illusions are not all that the enchanter is about, either. They are a part of their overall kit, just like foraging is part of the ranger kit. Appearance slots are not my idea. I don't particularly care if other people do not like them ... this is inevitable for pretty much any feature/system/mechanic. I do care, however, when people use strawman arguments to undermine what they bring to the table. I do care when people create slippery slope arguments and pass them off as fact. Doing that appears as intentional fearmongering and contributes to unnecessary derailing when new people join the discussion. We have seen more than enough of that throughout this thread. Happy wishes to you and yours.
Enchanter is still The Illusionist though. Looking at it as a class, not as a profession will help. Anyway, apparently the appearance slots you mention often is also a strawman argument then. Moving on for now. Thank you for the well wishes ~
Syrif said:The appearance slot isn’t going to work in Pantheon AD7. This thread is just too comical lol. *Slips back into illusion and vanishes*
Thankfully you are here to design the game for us and to adjudicate what will and will not worth in Pantheon! For a moment, I thought we would have to let VR and the whole community to decide what works and what does not.
Beefcake said:Thankfully you are here to design the game for us and to adjudicate what will and will not worth in Pantheon! For a moment, I thought we would have to let VR and the whole community to decide what works and what does not.
Welcome to the thread of never-ending sarcasm. Yours is pretty good too. Wouldn’t you say this topic is beat to death Beefcake? If not, carry on without me.. lol. Cheers buddy.
So we give people who want to have cosmetic gear and see everyone wear it multiple options to have this be achieved but it isnt enough, as for the people who want to see adventure gear only wants one thing and keeps getting denied it, lol and they say they are being open minded, a think I would be better off talking to a wall than type in this thread anymore.
/facepalm @187 and dispolist
what both of you are saying is emergent gameplay.
appeareance slots provide no additional stats or benefits to any game mechanics other than cosmetics and therefore is a LUXURY.
A TOGGLE/CUSTOMIZATION OF APPEAREANCE IS NOT NECESSARY FOR PVE CORE GAMEPLAY.
sigh with all due respect the thread is so beyond discussing because both you guys stopped listening and trying to understand what i'm saying so i'm going to bow out.
basically u guys pushed me to a point where i agree with a purist no cosmetics at all.
anyways happy thanksgiving i'm gonna go put on 15 pounds cuz this discussion is no longer constructive and i need something worthy to give me a heart attack.