Lol I was a mage..so I don't remember all those types of mechanics too well. I just killed things mainly..Although I do remember having to do a few mob kiting, like with the bat boss in ZG, and a few bosses in BWL, lol. I don't remember the fear part in MC. I think the people I were with just kited with hunters and ice traps.
Meaningful, non-game breaking racial perks and passives that are reconcilable across the racial spectrum.
I think it would be great to allow players some choice in their perk/passive set during character creation but with the caveat that a positive choice would require a negative too. This idea would not determine the entire gamut of racial skills and passives. It would only allow for say 3 options during character creation out of perhaps a dozen choices. Enough to suffuse your character with unique abilities that in tandem with a set racial determination allows for a bit more uniqueness.
Naunet said:I disagree with racials affecting race/class decisions to any significant degree. The choice that matters is player preference in what they want to play. We shouldn't be forced into making one choice or another because X race is all but useless as Y class.
People always talk about "choices mattering" - well, they do matter, to the individual making the decision. When you force folk into certain choices based on racials, that isn't making choice matter - that's just restricting options and punishing people who have differing aesthetic preferences.
Exactly this, 100%
I'm a fan of imbalance, but I fear that racial passives done wrong can negatively impact the game by causing a "meta" or min maxing state. I'm also a fan of exp penalties for more power, because I'm a power gamer, but I don't believe they have a place in a game like this. We don't want to see stigmas or bias against certain race/class combos because they didn't pick the uber combo and instead went with the Duergar wizard. A guild may need more enchanters or clerics, but they should "never" be looking for a specific RACE of whatever class they need. Make racial passives for flavor. Or screw it make them wildly imbalanced and I'll take advantage, but it won't be good for the game.
This thread makes me afraid that Pantheon, like all other mmo's, will eventually devole into a one class/race fits all situation. So many opinions, so many play styles. It seems impossible to keep a majority happy and spending money without eventually washing out all the things that make the races and classes unique.
I would rather see some degree of choice limitation and imbalance that forces well rounded groups to keep forming in order to complete content. Once devs start bowing to every whim of the player base we end up with a game where every race and class is basically the same. We have a game where nobody needs a tank except in raids. A duo or trio is all that is needed for areas intended for balanced groups. People start leaving the game because they can never find a group, or are unable to get items they want because the mob that has it is perma-camped by a solo or duo group that only intends to put it on the broker for an outrageous price. The list goes on and on.
It's already been stated that the plan is for every race to have their own unique passive. The only example we have seen thus far is for the dwarves where they "could" have higher base cold resist and a bonus to acclimation in frigid environments. (I think that's a relatively weak example and would really like to see something with more flavor. A lot depends on how meaningful resists and acclimation ultimately are so maybe this ends up being awesome but I hope the overall spectrum of racial passives extends beyond resist/acclimation alone.) It would be great, in my opinion, if each race felt unique. It's a free world. If people want to form a guild of all gnomes or all dwarves for roleplaying purposes they can do that and nobody would be up in arms. I have seen meaningful racial passives in plenty of games ... and not once have I ever seen a guild deny a good player because of their race. Folks might "prefer" this or that because of min maxing but at the end of the day no high-end guild is going to turn down a great player because of their race choice. If it does happen it's going to be such an extreme anomoly that it's worth simply ignoring in the grand scheme of things.
Intelligent players are capable of overcoming slight imbalances and in a world where reputation matters, not everything boils down to your exact amount of HP or fire resist. If you're a good/confident player with friends there will be no shortage of other players or guilds that will be in the market for your services. Some players even enjoy going out of their way to play the exotic race/class combinations to beat the odds. Yes, I remember my first MMO (EQOA) where there was a bad-ass gnome warrior named Tower. He was amazing despite having the worst "starter stats" or "racial passives" for tanks in the game. That's what helped make his reputation -- he went where others weren't willing to go and it helped build a case for him being a legend on the server. The difference between him and other gnome warriors was determination and a lack of excuses and it speaks volumes to me that I still remember his name while so many thousands of others have been forgotten.
When the fae race was added to EQ2 (T8?) I remember a bruiser rerolling as one and it wasn't too long before he was hands down the best bruiser on the server. How did this happen? He had the support of his guild. He was surrounded by players who were confident in his ability/skill regardless of what race he played. So if we're talking high end guilds here ... where min/maxing is more important than ever, I assure you that racial choice isn't going to be a make or break factor. Good players find ways to overcome obstacles and since Pantheon is supposed to be a hardcore MMO, we really need to step back and remember that this shouldn't be a hand-holding experience. Every race should have something that makes them feel distinctive from the other races. If we can't figure out something as simple as meaningful racial passives then I'm afraid the game would be doomed anyway. That's just my opinion. Great players are going to play whatever combination of race/class they want and will absolutely be accepted by top-tier guilds. No excuses.