As others have said :
- Buy game
- Pay monthly sub
- By xpacs.
I'm good with bulk rate yearly sub payment discounts too.
Beyond that, I hope there's no way to buy anything at all with real world cash. No pets. No mounts. No cosmetic armor. No housing items. No xp potions. No 30 slot backpacks. Nothing. It always starts so innocently, and it's always bastardized into something that ruins the game. If those things items trully add to the game, insert them into the tradeskill system instead and it's a win-win.
I prefer the old subscription model. While many people that use free-to-play are as reasonable and mature as any subscriber, the lack of any investment in the game attracts juveniles and trolls and these loudmouths tend to dominate both chat and the forums.
I prefer no in-game store at all. A website market (note I carefully avoid the "s" word here) is fine to offer services such as extra character slots, gender or race changes, name changes, server transfers, subscriptions, monthly play options etc. Which services are offered is beyond the scope of this thread - I know there are different opinions on things like name changes and server transfers but IMO no need to debate that here.
Buying the game is fine, that is the old standard model that I prefer. Ditto buying expansions (but as many have said "real" expansions not minor additions.) I prefer that the purchase of the game include things like storage, classes, races etc. so that we aren't "nickleled and dimed" by having to pay extra for some of the classes and races and maximum number of inventory slots etc. This isn't to say that I have an objection to adding things years later and charging for them, such as a new race or class. Its premature to worry about that before release of the game.
I guess the real question is, where does PANTHEON draw the line?
As for me,
--------------------------
Okay:
- box fee
- subscriptions
- expansions
- pre-order bonuses
- dlc
- account services (name/gender/race change, server transfer, etc)
--------------------------
Not Okay:
- f2p business model
- loot boxes
- microtransactions / cash shop (even if it's only "cosmetics")
- krono (the ability to buy items with subscription time and be able to resell them to other players in game)
- allowing or taking a soft stance on RMT
I will pay for the game, the subscription, and for expansions. I support paying for name changes, server changes, etc. because the price acts as a deterent from people acting like a fool and then changing names/servers every week. I am against paying for any in game items or benefits, including cosmetics, and will likely quit playing if there is *any* cash shop at all. If you want cash shops there are 100 Korean twitch MMO's you can dump your money into.
Okays:
- True Box code just like the TLP server’s EQ is running right now. That means one account running per physical computer.
- Subscriptions based payment model with discounts for 3, 6 and 12-month subs.
- Buying expansions as they are released.
- Pre-order bonuses for the expansions
- DLC are great but I would prefer them to be free and in between expansions to keep interest going until the next expac.
- Paying for account services at reasonable prices (name/gender/race change, server transfer, etc). Not $25 for a race change or a server transfer, think cheaper, say $5.
Nope and Maybes:
- NO, F2P business model, ever, it is terrible. Maybe a free to play model for a newbie zone to level 5 or 10 would be wonderful but F2P models have wrecked the MMORPG world.
- NO, loot boxes, ever.
- Microtransactions / cash shop for cosmetics items only and they MUST have a setting to turn them off if other don’t want to see them.
- Limit RTMing to a Pantheon controlled currency like EQ Kronos or even WoWs Token system.
- Crack down on automated game play and Boxing. Boxing as in running more than one account on a physical machine.
- NO to buying additional classes and races in the cash shop. These should be added in Expacs and accessible when you buy the Expac.
- NO to flying mounts of any kind ever in the game or in the cash shop, they trivialize content.
Xbachs said:I will pay for the game, the subscription, and for expansions. I support paying for name changes, server changes, etc. because the price acts as a deterent from people acting like a fool and then changing names/servers every week. I am against paying for any in game items or benefits, including cosmetics, and will likely quit playing if there is *any* cash shop at all. If you want cash shops there are 100 Korean twitch MMO's you can dump your money into.
Honestly I am surprised Kilsen even asked about cash shops. I was under the impression that VR was strongly aganist them. If I am wrong and if cash shops are being considered please let us know so that I can un-fund my pledge and pick a new game to be excited about, because we obviously dont agree on what makes a game great. The second VR puts profit above their core values the game will flop into obscurity; pay-to-win's will get bored in two months and non-pay-to-win's will be so disghusted by VR's greed that they will lose interest. The only chance PRF has to be successful is to stick to the values VR has been promoting since inception.
I would not be concerned about a change in philosophy. This question is likely intended to highlight that the F2P/P2W is disliked and distrusted bringing attention to the fact that Pantheon will be different. A question like this also tends to receive a lot of responses on social media which in turn increases hits and generates in app publicity for Pantheon.
Do it old skool guys. Charge a fee for the game itself and then charge a monthly subscription to play. No frills.
Both components are important value propositions. Buying the game itself assigns value to the game. And paying a monthly subscription assigns value to playing the game. This value proposition is so important psychologically. But the proposition stops there. The moment there is a hint of value proposition about special content or items (e.g. microtransactions) then it ruins the game.
I would even question the idea of a free subscription for lower player levels. That really kills the value proposition. Even charging a paultry $1 per month starting at level 1 is better than $0 psychologically. Charging $0 is what you do when your game is dying, so that is the value proposition you are making to players. Just be very careful not to compromise your value in the name of accessibility. Compromising your value is also the typical gateway drug that eventually leads to things like microtransactions. Charge what you are worth and stand firm. Don't succumb to money tricks.
There are many money models and only one is correct. Exactly one.
Subscription model: Would be best, yes, as it avoids the many pitfalls of cash shops and other 'alternative' income streams. I'm sure Kilsin only mentions them to intentionally stir the pot of the discussion. The whole "where do you draw the line" question is pretty clearly implying some will draw the line before some or most of the methods mentioned.
The main game: I don't mind paying for the original game - it's pretty much a given - though perhaps a deal could be made if you buy 6 months or more subscription in advance. I liked being able to pay for a 'lifetime' sub with LoTRO if you want large early injections of cash from fans.
DLC: I would like expansions to be free. If the sub needs to be £1 more per month to achieve it, fine. It is much better to keep all the community in all the content, surely? Good for longevity and populations and always annoying to have friends who can't go where you can or do what you can.
Early access: I dislike early access. Again, it splits the community. If content is ready, roll it out to everyone. Maybe offer 'test' access to some like Battlefield 1's Community Test Environment if you must.
Account Services: Give some free. We all occasionally need to change server to join friends.
Account boosts: I'm not sure on things like extra character slots and bags being sold for cash. Probably not. XP boosts and high level characters? No. Generally? No.
Cosmetics: I don't like the idea of a cosmetics shop. Though I do very much want to be able to 'consume' items I've worn to make them available as a cosmetic look, I don't want characters wandering around looking like christmas trees or even more subtle, but powerful, items when they didn't 'earn' them in game.
Free Trial: t's important to have trial players mix in the 'real' community, but can this be done without letting in gold-sellers and greifers? Hmm... ugh
TL;DR: Subs and everything to keep the community together. You can't promote community first, then offer different levels of access. No 'haves' and 'have-nots' feel or mechanics and no 'pay to win' or even 'pay to look good/weird'.
Aqua said:Happy to buy the game and have a subscription and buy for expansions ...really hate the idea of pay to win mentality.
I coldn't agree more. I dislike the pay to win and free to play. More than happy to pay for the sub and expansions.
Kaylis said:Aqua said:Happy to buy the game and have a subscription and buy for expansions ...really hate the ide of pay to win mentality.
I coldn't agree more. I dislike the pay to win and free to play. More than happy to pay for the sub and expansions.
This strikes me as funny though. Kilsin didn't ask about Pay 2 Win. Cash Shop / Microtransactions do not equal Pay 2 Win. They CAN be, but done right cosmetic and other "fun" stuff that doesn't effect power are NOT Pay 2 Win.
I feel a bit like we are being trolled with this question. People get pretty worked up over this topic and I know there are multiple threads on this already.
Part of why many of us are here is the promise of a purely subscription game.
DLC/Expansions with an extra purchase price is fine. Variations in monthly cost based on length of subscription are fine.
No cash shops, no free to play, no microtransactions.
I end up leaving games when they switch from subscription based to FTP. It happened with LotRO, it happened with DDO and a couple others. The community always goes waaay down hill once subscriptions are removed. I enjoyed both games prior to those changes. I don't last long once microtransactions are introduced.
Season Passes, I am not sure how this would work, the game depends on you making friends. if your season ends, your friends dont see you any more. Overwritten by Free to play.
DLC's, Like buying expansions through steam? why not?. otherwise, no.
Subscriptions, yes 30-40 a month good for me.
Free to Play, I would prefer not, but that is more of a business decision to be made by the business.
Buy to Play, "YOU DIED" Dark souls. 65.00 for the game and all the stuff I need to put in my PC.
Pay to Play, This is how it is.
Expansions, yes, I'll pay another 65.00 for the expansion, after all, its like a new game, right?
Early Access, Not important. Overwritten by subscriotions. If I get there before everyone else does, I am then stuck doing nothing and waiting there, while my friends catch up.
Micro-transactions, Against, History has shown this has ruined games. This started because Evil did not understand what was good and sold pixels to another Evil. Like sugar over fat in the american diet.
Cash Shops, Not for in game items, its a game breaker I think.
What is your preferred method to pay for an MMORPG? #PRF #MMORPG #MMO : Credit Card/paypal
Talking about "niche"
"That's the Mercedes strategy: to produce a full range of cars aimed at a niche within every category;a niche of people who will pay a premium for prestige and perceived quality. "We need to grow," says Schrempp[....]As recently as 1993 Mercedes sold 515,000 cars..." (what year was that?)
zendrel said: I agree with hating on pay to win. I just would like to see Pantheon go for a lower sub price. I like to get my wife involved in these games and play with her if I can. $10 or less a month is easier for me to deal with when you start running more than one account. I know nowadays everyone does $15 but is there any way you could put subs back to that 9.99 area?
There is something to be said for the idea of multiple account discounts on the Subscription price. The multiple subscriptions would need to be billed to the same credit card simultaneously to get a discount and one active account per machine would need to be built into the game but it is likely to increase the number of active accounts. Those accounts would still need to buy the base game and the expansions as they are released.
Ideal:
Buy game
Pay Monthly Sub (to cover bug repair, hotfixes, and smaller but regular monthly updates)
Buy very rare, VERY big xpacs (Like, every 2 years or so)
I just like the regular sub cost, with regular game updates. Maybe some ealier old school games spoiled me, but man was this setup hard to beat. The expansions really were HUGE and would add dozens of quests (both big AND small), vast new areas to explore, and often new mechanics, classes, or skills.
More likely option (what I imagine we will get):
Buy Game
Pay Monthly Sub (hotfixes/bug maint only)
Buy bi-annual Xpacs (pleaes make them infrequent and large enough to justify. If youre just gonna make me buy an "expansion" every 2 months anyway, make my sub higher and give me monthly updates)
Either way though:
ZERO in game way to purchase subs. This creates a DIRECT gold-to-dollar exchange rate (or whatever currency you use) and is always terrible. It literally sets the standard for gold sellers/farmers, and does nothing but take revenue away from the devs so.....why would you EVER have this?
Azzudien said:In my perfect world,
Every game would be free to play and download the first 10-15 levels. Try before you buy type thing
After you hit that free stop point then:
Pay to download rest of game, pay monthly subscription.
I don't object to that completely, but I also wouldn't call it free to play. It would be sort of like the demos of old that you would get off a gaming magazine's cover disk. Might be a good strategy to get some players hooked, but VR would have to take care not to let such accounts be abused by trolls/bots/gold farmers. Those first 10-15 levels would have to be heavily restricted with regard to world/trade chat access, actual trading with other players, etc.
However, I still think it would be preferable to have the game's box price include the first month of game time. That way you buy the game just as any other game, and if after one month you decide you like it, you can subscribe to keep playing.
DakmorKavu said:ZERO in game way to purchase subs. This creates a DIRECT gold-to-dollar exchange rate (or whatever currency you use) and is always terrible. It literally sets the standard for gold sellers/farmers, and does nothing but take revenue away from the devs so.....why would you EVER have this?
I absolutely agree that there should be no in-game way of purchasing game time. That said, where it's been used, it actually brings the developers additional revenue (unless players leave the game on account of it). The reason is that game time tradeable in-game (such as PLEX in EVE Online) actually costs more than a subscription, especially a discounted recurring subscription. So a month of game time might cost $10 to a subscriber, but something like $17 for someone buying PLEX to resell in-game. The PLEX buyer may not have spent any real money for that month's access, but someone always will. IMHO the reason why these schemes should die in a fire is that they wreak havoc with the game economy.
Azzudien said:In my perfect world,
Every game would be free to play and download the first 10-15 levels. Try before you buy type thing
After you hit that free stop point then:
Pay to download rest of game, pay monthly subscription.
A free trial period and free to play are very different. Lets make sure we aren't confusing the two.