So, I revived an old cosmetic gear thread to propose an alternate idea and it just revived the old arguments. Whoops.
I'd like to discuss this particular idea and get some feedback on whether people like it or not.
The idea came to me while discussing horizontal progression in another thread, some of the rewards for that "hoizontral progression" content being "non-vertical" items--or cosmetic gear.
Now, for this thread, the idea I'm proposing is in no way linked to the idea of cosmetic gear that has been discussed. whereby the cosmetic gear would override the appearance of someone's battle-gear and people being able to toggle the option on or off in terms of how they see other players.
The idea I've laid out below could be implemented alongside or without the other proposed cosmetic system, so I'd like to keep from discussing that topc here unless someone needs to reference it to make a relevant point. If someone does reference it, let's just assume that it is set in stone that VR will introduce the system with an off/on toggle option so as to avoid arguing about it here.
Now, without further ado... :D
Please comment on whether or not you would enjoy the following system:
- You have a separate tab for "no stat" cosmetic gear that looks somewhat like your "real" gear tab.
- There is no toggle option for these cosmetic items.
- These cosmetic items do not change or override the appearance of your battle (real) gear.
- These cosmetic items, instead, enhance your character's appearance by adding to your character's appearance.
- Items would include things like: Cloaks, Sashes, Tabards, Surcoats, Baldrics, Scarves (caster only?) etc...
- The above would be available in a variety of colors, patterns, and styles. The rarer and more difficult to acquire, the more elegant the pattern / style and the richer the color.
- Perhaps highly-skilled crafters can make some of these items.
- These cosmetic items should be rare / difficult to acquire, and if crafted the materials to construct these items should be rare / difficult to acquire.
I only started a new thread for this because it's a feature I think I would enjoy, and I'd like to get some honest opinions from you all. Classic UO had a system in place that felt similar whereby people could wear baldrics, half-aprons, sashes, and things like that over their actual gear. Eventually this stuff began to offer stats (like crafting/harvesting bonuses), but I think people thoroughly enjoyed the extra bit of customization long before this.
Again, please keep it civil and please keep discussions of the other toggle/no toggle appearance-altering cosmetic system on the other thread. Thanks! :D
I like the idea of all of these things but they should be extremely rare. Maybe have two tiers for each slot. T1 would be an ultra rare drop from the worldwide loot table but there would only be one graphic for each slot. T2 would be a very rare drop (one step below ultra rare) but these only drop in specific zones. The T2 versions are statistically rarer due to the zone restrictions but they would be more elegant and have more options. Something like this:
T1 (White with Black Accent) Cloak/Sash/Tabard/Surcoat/Baldric/Scarf has a .001% chance of dropping off of any creature in the world. There is only one version of this item.
T2 (Silver with Royal Blue Accent) Cloak/Sash/Tabard/Surcoat/Baldric/Scarf has a .005% chance of dropping off of any creature in a specific zone. (No more than 2 pieces could drop from a single zone.)
T2 (Black with Crimson Accent) Cloak/Sash/Tabard/Surcoat/Baldric/Scarf has a .005% chance of dropping off of any creature in a specific zone. (No more than 2 pieces could drop from a single zone.)
T2 (Gold with Royal Purple Accent) Cloak/Sash/Tabard/Surcoat/Baldric/Scarf has a .005% chance of dropping off of any creature in a specific zone. (No more than 2 pieces could drop from a single zone.)
In addition to the above, I think you could also add surcoats/tabards for mounts. Drop rates could be tweaked to be more rare if desired, but not less IMO. Colors are place-holder. I'm sure a more artistic person could come up with better base/accent patterns. It might make sense to make the cloaks/tabards/surcoats statistically rarer than the other pieces.
oneADseven said:I like the idea of all of these things but they should be extremely rare. Maybe have two tiers for each slot. T1 would be an ultra rare drop from the worldwide loot table but there would only be one graphic for each slot. T2 would be a very rare drop (one step below ultra rare) but these only drop in specific zones. The T2 versions are statistically rarer due to the zone restrictions but they would be more elegant and have more options. Something like this:
T1 (White with Black Accent) Cloak/Sash/Tabard/Surcoat/Baldric/Scarf has a .001% chance of dropping off of any creature in the world. There is only one version of this item.
T2 (Silver with Royal Blue Accent) Cloak/Sash/Tabard/Surcoat/Baldric/Scarf has a .005% chance of dropping off of any creature in a specific zone. (No more than 2 pieces could drop from a single zone.)
T2 (Black with Crimson Accent) Cloak/Sash/Tabard/Surcoat/Baldric/Scarf has a .005% chance of dropping off of any creature in a specific zone. (No more than 2 pieces could drop from a single zone.)
T2 (Gold with Royal Purple Accent) Cloak/Sash/Tabard/Surcoat/Baldric/Scarf has a .005% chance of dropping off of any creature in a specific zone. (No more than 2 pieces could drop from a single zone.)
In addition to the above, I think you could also add surcoats/tabards for mounts. Drop rates could be tweaked to be more rare if desired, but not less IMO. Colors are place-holder. I'm sure a more artistic person could come up with better base/accent patterns. It might make sense to make the cloaks/tabards/surcoats statistically rarer than the other pieces.
Those numbers were partly inspired by my memory of EQOA. There was a ceremonial vestment robe that was an ultra rare drop from the worldwide loot table. This was one of two robes that could be equipped by any class in the game so they were highly sought after and valuable. I managed to win one on my enchanter and ended up giving it to the paladin in my group after he started drooling over it. (It wasn't all that special to me since I could equip robes anyway.) Then there was the specter robe which was also extremely rare but it only dropped from crocs in one of the swamp zones. I spent months trying to acquire that specter robe for my warrior only to learn that they removed it from the game when they launched the server that I rerolled on. As long as each and every one of these drops are mega rare I would love to see them in the game. EQOA is the only game I have ever played that got the "Ultra Rare" worldwide and "Very Rare" zone-wide (or NPC type) loot tables right. EQ2 did to some degree with their master quality spell scrolls from exquisite chests.
Yeah so Im vote no on this and add in my own version. Each race should have racial apperence gear slots to add onto as your described above. Base armor then racial gear slots. It could help with design, as each armor looks the same instead of tyng to have a unique armor design fro differnt classes but we get these new racial extra slots to be unique.
In my ideal world there would be no cosmetic gear that overrides your real gear, your suggestion of additional "fluf/accesories" cosmetics to costumized your character is a great one would love something like this.
My suggestion is, no cosmetics what so ever, just allow players to dye their gear so there's no colour mismatch,and maybe add your cosmetics idea on top of that, to me that's more than enough costumization.
The term cosmetic gear is used very loosely. Sometimes it's hard to tell if players are using it to describe appearance gear (What we'll see in Pantheon which is ANY piece of gear used in the "appearance" slot) or traditional cosmetic gear (costumes or "themed" gear that is sometimes used for roleplaying, usually bought with real money) The worst thing I can think of is having both appearance gear and cosmetic gear because then you'll see people adventuring and doing battle in their tuxedos. I suppose this issue could be alleviated if all true "cosmetic gear" has restrictions to where it can't be equipped in an appearance slot. I have never been a fan of dye systems as they take away the value of earning an actual "set" in-game.
The "rubicite armor" effect is diminished greatly if you have dyes. I certainly get the appeal of wanting to match and that's a big reason why I prefer that there are no dyes as it allows players to circumvent doing things the old fashioned way. You get 1 piece of rubicite and then dye the rest of your fine steel to match the rubicite and voila you look the exact same as the guy with a real set of rubicite! I wouldn't like that at all ... seems like a way to cheat the system to me. This same logic applies to the cosmetic enhancement items that have been described on this thread. If the more rare pieces use color to distinguish them, as has been described, dyes would diminish the added elegance that was alluded to.
*Edit -- I know this is starting to stray off-topic a bit but I wanted to add in my thoughts on dye systems in general as they seem to run counter to the idea of using color palettes as a way to distinguish exotic or elegant pieces/sets.
Kaen said:So, I revived an old cosmetic gear thread to propose an alternate idea and it just revived the old arguments. Whoops.
I'd like to discuss this particular idea and get some feedback on whether people like it or not.
The idea came to me while discussing horizontal progression in another thread, some of the rewards for that "hoizontral progression" content being "non-vertical" items--or cosmetic gear.
Now, for this thread, the idea I'm proposing is in no way linked to the idea of cosmetic gear that has been discussed. whereby the cosmetic gear would override the appearance of someone's battle-gear and people being able to toggle the option on or off in terms of how they see other players...etc...
To stay ON TOPIC, as you requested, I do like the idea of cosmetic tabards, cloaks, coats, etc being wearable over actual gear while not concealing it
This would be awesome if Guilds could create crests or insignias that could then be embroidered on tabards as a more "in-world" way to fly your guild colors
shuk said: I dig the idea of guild colors and insignias, but there needs to be a variety of choices in how to display them. Boy did I get sick of looking at the garish, identical guild tabards in WoW... even my own tabard. So, I think providing options to display your allegiances is great; cloaks, tabards, those half shoulder cape things, even just badges, facepaints or armbands. These options can be tied to racial looks, too.
Big fan of this idea. Always thought it was a shame that MMO's didn't implement accessories like this. There are TONS of ways to customize the look of your character without completely swapping gear. Also getting behind the idea of making them extremely rare. When you see a fella walking around with a sash around his waist, you should know that this is a guy who purposefully rolled on this, during a raid, and worked hard to get it at the expense of arguably better and more useful gear.
Cloaks, however, I think should remain as gear-dependent and not accessories. Unless you're referring to simply adding an insignia or standard on your cloak? Maybe some tassels? But the cloak in its entirety, I assumed, would come with stats and armor rating (?), as opposed to say, a scarf.
Cloaks have been done in many MMOs and, frankly, aren't worth the extra work they give the graphics engine in my opinion. Adding more dangling bits like scarves and sashes? It's going to have to be fairly limited, I think. Clipping is a big issue with that stuff, and nothing ruins immersion faster than clipping.
That being said, if they are willing to dedicate serious resources into that kind of gear, there's a lot of space to explore. Perhaps the sashes and such inform the player of the wind speed and direction in the area, which would of course necessitate that being useful information. A lot of work. Perhaps cloaks could have varying weights, with a thin cloth shawl moving more quickly and easily compared to a heavy oiled leather cloak optimised for keeping the rain out. Perhaps they could absorb water, becoming heavier and limper until you've been out of the water long enough and 'dry'.
There's a lot of design space in this idea, I just personally think their resources could be better dedicated elsewhere.
Tralyan said:Big fan of this idea. Always thought it was a shame that MMO's didn't implement accessories like this. There are TONS of ways to customize the look of your character without completely swapping gear. Also getting behind the idea of making them extremely rare. When you see a fella walking around with a sash around his waist, you should know that this is a guy who purposefully rolled on this, during a raid, and worked hard to get it at the expense of arguably better and more useful gear.
Cloaks, however, I think should remain as gear-dependent and not accessories. Unless you're referring to simply adding an insignia or standard on your cloak? Maybe some tassels? But the cloak in its entirety, I assumed, would come with stats and armor rating (?), as opposed to say, a scarf.
I have seen capes used as a standard gear slot in plenty of games. Cloaks are a bit different as they can have a hood attached so I don't think it really makes sense to use them as the default "back" slot. There is no rule that says you can't have a cloak in the back slot because some cloaks aren't hooded. But if you're going to create a default equipment slot for the back I think it makes more sense to call it a cape. All that said, I agree that capes should be considered a default equipment slot for all intents and purposes, rather than used exclusively for cosmetics. The reason I figured cloaks could fit into the picture as a cosmetic piece is because they would generally be worn over a cape.
*Edit -- I just wanted to clarify my thoughts a little bit. I actually had the same question running through my mind that Tralyan proposed and this was the solution that I ended up walking away with. I don't know if it makes total sense but I do like the idea of having both capes and cloaks, each with their respective slots, with the former being a default slot and the latter being cosmetic only. I also think the best looking cloaks have hoods. =D
Darchias said:Cloaks have been done in many MMOs and, frankly, aren't worth the extra work they give the graphics engine in my opinion. Adding more dangling bits like scarves and sashes? It's going to have to be fairly limited, I think. Clipping is a big issue with that stuff, and nothing ruins immersion faster than clipping.
That being said, if they are willing to dedicate serious resources into that kind of gear, there's a lot of space to explore. Perhaps the sashes and such inform the player of the wind speed and direction in the area, which would of course necessitate that being useful information. A lot of work. Perhaps cloaks could have varying weights, with a thin cloth shawl moving more quickly and easily compared to a heavy oiled leather cloak optimised for keeping the rain out. Perhaps they could absorb water, becoming heavier and limper until you've been out of the water long enough and 'dry'.
There's a lot of design space in this idea, I just personally think their resources could be better dedicated elsewhere.
I like OP's idea but I would still like to see cosmetic gear for the main slots (with no useful stats so that people don't use them in the middle of dungeons).
I don't mean tuxedos but I do mean lore friendly dresses and briches.
It'll make Pantheon life much funner for merchants and RPers both.
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Also I don't feel any cosmetic items should be particularly rare, but you should usually intend to get them when you get them.
So make cosmetic items craftable, drop off the occasional joke mob, and/or purchasable from npcs. However, cosmetic items shouldn't drop off the giant dragon. This way loot is immersive, but players who want to customize their character with their (lore friendly) cosmetic gear can do so relatively easily in a way that is unique compared to the next guy.
oneADseven said:I have seen capes used as a standard gear slot in plenty of games. Cloaks are a bit different as they can have a hood attached so I don't think it really makes sense to use them as the default "back" slot. There is no rule that says you can't have a cloak in the back slot because some cloaks aren't hooded. But if you're going to create a default equipment slot for the back I think it makes more sense to call it a cape. All that said, I agree that capes should be considered a default equipment slot for all intents and purposes, rather than used exclusively for cosmetics. The reason I figured cloaks could fit into the picture as a cosmetic piece is because they would generally be worn over a cape.
*Edit -- I just wanted to clarify my thoughts a little bit. I actually had the same question running through my mind that Tralyan proposed and this was the solution that I ended up walking away with. I don't know if it makes total sense but I do like the idea of having both capes and cloaks, each with their respective slots, with the former being a default slot and the latter being cosmetic only. I also think the best looking cloaks have hoods. =D
Why not make capes the default back slot, and the hood the cosmetic accessory - instead of separating cloaks and capes? Or is that basically what you're saying?
Or do cloaks have more defining characteristics other than just the hood? Are cloaks usually heavier/thicker and made of more fabric than a cape? These are genuine questions. If the only difference between the two is one has a hood, and one doesn't, why not just make the hood the cosmetic addition (along with whatever other additions there are - insignia, fur lining, etc).
BeaverBiscuit said:I like OP's idea but I would still like to see cosmetic gear for the main slots (with no useful stats so that people don't use them in the middle of dungeons).
I don't mean tuxedos but I do mean lore friendly dresses and briches.
It'll make Pantheon life much funner for merchants and RPers both.
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Also I don't feel any cosmetic items should be particularly rare, but you should usually intend to get them when you get them.
So make cosmetic items craftable, drop off the occasional joke mob, and/or purchasable from npcs. However, cosmetic items shouldn't drop off the giant dragon. This way loot is immersive, but players who want to customize their character with their (lore friendly) cosmetic gear can do so relatively easily in a way that is unique compared to the next guy.
Tralyan said:oneADseven said:I have seen capes used as a standard gear slot in plenty of games. Cloaks are a bit different as they can have a hood attached so I don't think it really makes sense to use them as the default "back" slot. There is no rule that says you can't have a cloak in the back slot because some cloaks aren't hooded. But if you're going to create a default equipment slot for the back I think it makes more sense to call it a cape. All that said, I agree that capes should be considered a default equipment slot for all intents and purposes, rather than used exclusively for cosmetics. The reason I figured cloaks could fit into the picture as a cosmetic piece is because they would generally be worn over a cape.
*Edit -- I just wanted to clarify my thoughts a little bit. I actually had the same question running through my mind that Tralyan proposed and this was the solution that I ended up walking away with. I don't know if it makes total sense but I do like the idea of having both capes and cloaks, each with their respective slots, with the former being a default slot and the latter being cosmetic only. I also think the best looking cloaks have hoods. =DWhy not make capes the default back slot, and the hood the cosmetic accessory - instead of separating cloaks and capes? Or is that basically what you're saying?
Or do cloaks have more defining characteristics other than just the hood? Are cloaks usually heavier/thicker and made of more fabric than a cape? These are genuine questions. If the only difference between the two is one has a hood, and one doesn't, why not just make the hood the cosmetic addition (along with whatever other additions there are - insignia, fur lining, etc).
Capes and cloaks have plenty of similarities but in reality they were designed for different purposes. Historically, capes were used more as a status symbol (fashion) whereas cloaks were designed to protect the wearer from the elements (function) -- this is a primary reason why cloaks tend to be thicker, full-length, and have an attached hood. I just looked up an article that better defines the differences between them and here are some takeaways:
Purpose
Cloaks: They are often worn by academia, judges and as components of costumes. Cloaks are still sometimes worn to protect the wearer from the elements.
Capes: Worn usually as fashion apparel instead of functional attire
Part of the Body
Cloaks: A cloak will usually cover the majority of one’s body from head to feet.
Capes: A cape usually only covers the back of the body, but they can also come around the shoulders to conceal a portion of the front of the body.
Length
Cloaks: Cloaks are usually very long and cover the body from the head to the feet (in hooded versions). Common cloaks or gowns cover the area from the shoulders down.
Capes: Capes are usually shorter than cloaks covering down to the thighs, and some may go down to the ankles. Long capes are a typical feature of the suits of superhero characters.
Design
Sleeves
Cloaks: Cloaks are sleeveless, but some may feature designated sleeves through which the arms are placed.
Capes: Capes are sleeveless, and they don’t require sleeves or arm slits because they are usually meant to be short and worn at the back.
Hood
Cloaks: Often feature hoods to serve their purpose of protecting the wearer from strong weather
Capes: These usually do not have hoods as cloaks often do.
Fastening
Cloaks: Fastened at the neck with a rope or clip
Capes: Fastened at the neck (usually with string) to stay in place along the individual’s torso
Extra Decorations
Cloaks: Cloaks are usually very simple in appearance, but some may be embellished when worn as costumes.
Capes: They can be decorated with beads or other adornments for enhanced appearance. This may be more common with designs that cover the front of the body as well.
I personally tend to favor the look of cloaks over capes for my characters but do see value in offering both in a fantasy world. I think it makes sense to outfit a militia with capes and for officers/generals to have more elegant features that help distinguish them. If you have a covert mission on a dark rainy night, send a band of seasoned adventurers wearing thick dark cloaks.
Capes would indeed go under cloaks and are traditionally the go-to stat piece for stats. I think it makes more sense from a "realism" perspective to assign stats to cloaks as their primary purpose is to protect the wearer from the elements. That said, I would be completely willing to overlook the realism argument if cloaks are indeed very rare pieces that are exclusively used as cosmetic enhancement pieces. I know a lot of players are spoiled with convenience in modern MMO's but this is an area where I feel getting back to the roots of the genre would be beneficial. Acquiring a full set of good looking gear should be meaningful rather than expected, and adding rare complimentary pieces would only reinforce that. It makes sense that a lot of players would want to have a cool looking cloak but they lose the appeal when everybody has one.
EverQuest II has a pretty good system in place. You get TWO pages, appearance and wardrobe. The appearance page is for gear that you wear that actually covers your existing gear with the appearance that you want. The other page, wardrobe, however is something new for me. The wardrobe page allows you to destroy a piece of gear and add it to a list for each wear location, even if the gear is not for your class. You really like how that piece of platemail looks but you are a caster? No problem, earn that piece of armor and you can add it to your wardrobe, switch over to your appearance page and a dropdown menu of everything in your wardrobe for that wear slot shows up allowing you to choose what you want. So the appearance page is for the gear you can wear, gear that is for your class, toss it in the bank when you're not using it. The wardrobe page is for gear that your class can not use but that you appreciate the look of.
I like the idea of sashes/baldrics/whatever, but cloaks cover too much, so although they don't 'change' your 'real' gear, they do largely obscure it.
In addition to sashes you could have medals and broaches, badges and emblems, belt buckles and knee/elbow pads (not keen on shoulder pads, though, so maybe no pads...).
Small bits that embelish but don't change or hide 'normal' gear.
Having said that, I'd really like a wardrobe tab where anything you've previously worn *can* be chosen to override a current 'worn' item. There's nothing I hate worse than getting something with awesome stats bu feeling it makes my character look stupid... But that's a little off-topic, sorry.