Hey Kils ... this thread reminded me of a post on our guild boards where a husband and wife asked what would be expected of them in an alpha test -- specifically as it pertains to Pantheon. Will there be some sort of "Alpha Testing for Dummies, Course 101" (as my guildies put it) guide to help people who may have never experienced a true alpha test before? The lines between alpha/beta testing and early release have become so blurred over the years, I don't think many people have actually participated in a proper alpha test before.
Obviously I'm (and they're) not talking about a literal training course, but will there be a set of guildlines posted to help people negotiate what you're looking for from them?
Cromulent said:Kilsin said:rkwiles said:It sound like you will be very hard core on anyones a$$ and you should be but I was wondering.
Will their be an appeals process?
Will thier be a warning process for some infraction?
Could a person have their account suppended for a period of time for some infractions instead of account ban?
Could a person have the character deleted that made the infraction instead of account ban?
I know that some infractions like gold selling and others, should be banned without appeals.
We will have an internal process in place that I am currently in the process of writing up now, it will have various stages of disciplinary actions depending on the breach but cheating, botting, gold selling etc. will be instant and permanent bans, those people would have to purchase the game all over again, losing any items, character progress, money etc.t hat they built up to start again and if they repeated the breach, they would be banned again, we have things in place to track this kind of behaviour now as the technology these days is awesome, so those people can do it at their own risk but it will become quite expensive for them to cheat repeatedly in Pantheon, hopefully, it is enough of a deterrent to minimise a lot of it.
There are too many ways to exploit the system deleting characters, they can just transfer items to other characters or accounts and the resources it would take to engage those people, investigate, back and forth discussions, we have to draw a line in the sand and we will be tough on cheating, automated programs, gold selling, account selling, duping etc. there is no tolerance for that type of behaviour in a game like ours, it ruins the economy, the community and turns people away from our game which in turn is a loss of revenue for our company, so they will learn the hard way.I heard you were planning on having a free trial up to level 10. What if gold sellers set up thousands of free accounts and use them instead of paying? I know you can't give specifics because that would undermine your security but it does worry me a little bit. I played Blade and Soul when it first came out in the west and the chat was just SPAM SPAM SPAM. It never ended and ruined the game for me. I'd hate to see something like that happen in Pantheon especially as it has such a nice community.
The exact terms of the free trial are not confirmed, but regardless, they're well aware of staying one step ahead of gold spammers. See these threads:
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2566/gold-seller-spam-how-about-player-defined-chat-filters
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2041/what-will-pantheon-do-to-defend-itself-from-gold-sellers
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/1577/gold-sellers-ever-a-good-thing
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/3722/bots-farmers-3rd-party-programs
Lghtngfan said:Hey Kils ... this thread reminded me of a post on our guild boards where a husband and wife asked what would be expected of them in an alpha test -- specifically as it pertains to Pantheon. Will there be some sort of "Alpha Testing for Dummies, Course 101" (as my guildies put it) guide to help people who may have never experienced a true alpha test before? The lines between alpha/beta testing and early release have become so blurred over the years, I don't think many people have actually participated in a proper alpha test before.
Obviously I'm (and they're) not talking about a literal training course, but will there be a set of guildlines posted to help people negotiate what you're looking for from them?
Yes, Kilsin and Convo (VR's lead game tester) will be putting together a guide for people that have never tested a game before. Although it will probably actually also be a helpful reminder even for people that have tested before. That way people will be able to give as productive feedback as possible.
(See https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5146/testing-etiquette)
Bazgrim said:Cromulent said:Kilsin said:rkwiles said:It sound like you will be very hard core on anyones a$$ and you should be but I was wondering.
Will their be an appeals process?
Will thier be a warning process for some infraction?
Could a person have their account suppended for a period of time for some infractions instead of account ban?
Could a person have the character deleted that made the infraction instead of account ban?
I know that some infractions like gold selling and others, should be banned without appeals.
We will have an internal process in place that I am currently in the process of writing up now, it will have various stages of disciplinary actions depending on the breach but cheating, botting, gold selling etc. will be instant and permanent bans, those people would have to purchase the game all over again, losing any items, character progress, money etc.t hat they built up to start again and if they repeated the breach, they would be banned again, we have things in place to track this kind of behaviour now as the technology these days is awesome, so those people can do it at their own risk but it will become quite expensive for them to cheat repeatedly in Pantheon, hopefully, it is enough of a deterrent to minimise a lot of it.
There are too many ways to exploit the system deleting characters, they can just transfer items to other characters or accounts and the resources it would take to engage those people, investigate, back and forth discussions, we have to draw a line in the sand and we will be tough on cheating, automated programs, gold selling, account selling, duping etc. there is no tolerance for that type of behaviour in a game like ours, it ruins the economy, the community and turns people away from our game which in turn is a loss of revenue for our company, so they will learn the hard way.I heard you were planning on having a free trial up to level 10. What if gold sellers set up thousands of free accounts and use them instead of paying? I know you can't give specifics because that would undermine your security but it does worry me a little bit. I played Blade and Soul when it first came out in the west and the chat was just SPAM SPAM SPAM. It never ended and ruined the game for me. I'd hate to see something like that happen in Pantheon especially as it has such a nice community.
The exact terms of the free trial are not confirmed, but regardless, they're well aware of staying one step ahead of gold spammers. See these threads:
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2566/gold-seller-spam-how-about-player-defined-chat-filters
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2041/what-will-pantheon-do-to-defend-itself-from-gold-sellers
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/1577/gold-sellers-ever-a-good-thing
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/3722/bots-farmers-3rd-party-programs
Ah, cool. Thanks for the links Bazgrim.
Bazgrim said:Lghtngfan said:Hey Kils ... this thread reminded me of a post on our guild boards where a husband and wife asked what would be expected of them in an alpha test -- specifically as it pertains to Pantheon. Will there be some sort of "Alpha Testing for Dummies, Course 101" (as my guildies put it) guide to help people who may have never experienced a true alpha test before? The lines between alpha/beta testing and early release have become so blurred over the years, I don't think many people have actually participated in a proper alpha test before.
Obviously I'm (and they're) not talking about a literal training course, but will there be a set of guildlines posted to help people negotiate what you're looking for from them?
Yes, Kilsin and Convo (VR's lead game tester) will be putting together a guide for people that have never tested a game before. Although it will probably actually also be a helpful reminder even for people that have tested before. That way people will be able to give as productive feedback as possible.
(See https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5146/testing-etiquette)
Thanks Baz :)
Convo and Zoeii has taken my place now that we have Zoeii on board to help, so we will get that guide out to you all in time for testing :)
It will be up to the community to report these infractions, I know what a bot looks like, seen enough of them in my gaming years. I have NO hesitation on reporting on a single character or a whole guild, if it comes down to that. Main thing as we are gaming, to keep our eyes open. I've had people do a drive by invite to group, and then inform me that its their JOB to play the game. The rest of us are paying for the game, and these people leech off the hard work of the Devs, and in some cases make millions of dollars for their gold seller companies. All free money to them. Meantime they degrade the game over time..ruin the player economy and are absolutely immersion breaking. And in some cases like Lineage II...they have their little bot groups all lined up in the newbie villages ..ready to do the next run. You can't quest around them, you can't hunt around them, they take over dungeons and refuse to let you in, if you come in anyway, they train you. So yeah I will be quite pleased to mess with their goals. One other thing..in LOTRO I played a pvp spider, the pvp people were confined to a place called the Ettenmoors, we couldn't access the rest of the game world as pvp. The gold farmer bots thought it was a great idea to set up in our area. Being that its pvp, we went and did the tour around the Ettenmoors and cleaned them all out for free points. If we have a pvp ruleset server, perhaps the community could be allowed to deal with these pests. :)
CanadinaXegony said:It will be up to the community to report these infractions, I know what a bot looks like, seen enough of them in my gaming years. I have NO hesitation on reporting on a single character or a whole guild, if it comes down to that. Main thing as we are gaming, to keep our eyes open. I've had people do a drive by invite to group, and then inform me that its their JOB to play the game. The rest of us are paying for the game, and these people leech off the hard work of the Devs, and in some cases make millions of dollars for their gold seller companies. All free money to them. Meantime they degrade the game over time..ruin the player economy and are absolutely immersion breaking. And in some cases like Lineage II...they have their little bot groups all lined up in the newbie villages ..ready to do the next run. You can't quest around them, you can't hunt around them, they take over dungeons and refuse to let you in, if you come in anyway, they train you. So yeah I will be quite pleased to mess with their goals.
I agree. No mercy for bots and gold farmers :). I wil happily report anyone damaging the game for real players as they are the ones that are most dangerous to the games success. If players come in and see a bunch of bots then they are likely to leave again. None of us want that.
Cromulent said:CanadinaXegony said:It will be up to the community to report these infractions, I know what a bot looks like, seen enough of them in my gaming years. I have NO hesitation on reporting on a single character or a whole guild, if it comes down to that. Main thing as we are gaming, to keep our eyes open. I've had people do a drive by invite to group, and then inform me that its their JOB to play the game. The rest of us are paying for the game, and these people leech off the hard work of the Devs, and in some cases make millions of dollars for their gold seller companies. All free money to them. Meantime they degrade the game over time..ruin the player economy and are absolutely immersion breaking. And in some cases like Lineage II...they have their little bot groups all lined up in the newbie villages ..ready to do the next run. You can't quest around them, you can't hunt around them, they take over dungeons and refuse to let you in, if you come in anyway, they train you. So yeah I will be quite pleased to mess with their goals.
I agree. No mercy for bots and gold farmers :). I wil happily report anyone damaging the game for real players as they are the ones that are most dangerous to the games success. If players come in and see a bunch of bots then they are likely to leave again. None of us want that.
I would like ot include people that sell in game items for real money or sell accounts for real money, unless that is already implied.
