Mathir said:A great player is someone that masters every aspect of their class. Period. The end.
A great person would be someone that makes the game more enjoyable for others, but that is seperate and a different question. Great players are often great A-holes as well, largely because they expect the people they play with to take the game as serious as they do and demand that people play well.
I disagree, What you describe would be true in a single player game. In a group oriented MMORPG working with others is part of playing.
The same things that make a person great makes a player great, in my view:
The person that tales the time to show you the ropes and then walks off into the sunset as you are yelling Shane!.....Shane!.....Shane! What I thinks makes somebody a good player has many traits to be honest. Maybe they just greet you in a bubbly manner and it cheers you up. Being a good gamer was never just about knowing your class because that goes without saying. Its fair to say that some people just understand math better then others, because honstly stats and damage and move out of the fire all come from math and RNG and the like so thats just a smal portion of being a good gamer.
What makes them the best is how they act with others. The person who comes out of the woodline to say hey do you need help with that death frog of doom? or that person who silently trades you a potion before the raid because you forgot yours. Maybe its the crafter that could have charged you 30p for the Thunder Frog Doomstick of Death when they could have actually charged you 100p. The point is with the ideology that you make the great player because of your actions and not just your technical actions with your class is what I think makes a great player.
Kilsin said:What, in your opinion, separates the great players from the rest in MMORPGs? #PRF #Communitymatters
Great players are patient, tolerant of mistakes, helpful, fun, bring out the best in their groupmates, know their class role and limitations, and isn't a complete jerk when something goes wrong. End of the day, we're all here to have a good time and leave the mundane real world behind. Honor, loyalty, and excellence follows.
That pretty much sums it up. The greatest players embody all of those qualities. It has 0 to do with being a leet MLG pwner of newbs.
Nanoushka said:I guess that depends on your definition of 'great', and that seems rather personal to me (as I'm sure you are aware yourself :)). To me it's the friendly people who go out of their way to help someone, who take the time to explain things to a new player, who are kind in chat and not quick to judge someone else and/or their performance. Decent human beings. If they can play rather well that's a wonderful bonus of course but not a requirement.
Agree 100% add a player that tries to work as a party, we all get adds sometimes but not all the time...
The best players are willing to poopsock, invest lots of money, put lots of effort into it(no matter how hard the game is having a multiboxxed character is a fantastic pay to win self buff/heal/cc, even dps or tank strategy) or help/chat/bring good emotions to other players.
I prefer the latter sort of best player myself.
Nanoushka said:Decent human beings.
This plus being great at your role (tank, heals, cc, dps). Basically, striving to be the Michael Jordan of MMO's - being great on and off the court.
BeaverBiscuit said:The best players are willing to poopsock, invest lots of money, put lots of effort into it(no matter how hard the game is having a multiboxxed character is a fantastic pay to win self buff/heal/cc, even dps or tank strategy) or help/chat/bring good emotions to other players.
I prefer the latter sort of best player myself.
I'd argue the former are not better players. Perhaps more accomplished, but not better. And I'd agree 100% that I prefer the latter.
Feyshtey said:BeaverBiscuit said:The best players are willing to poopsock, invest lots of money, put lots of effort into it(no matter how hard the game is having a multiboxxed character is a fantastic pay to win self buff/heal/cc, even dps or tank strategy) or help/chat/bring good emotions to other players.
I prefer the latter sort of best player myself.
I'd argue the former are not better players. Perhaps more accomplished, but not better. And I'd agree 100% that I prefer the latter.
I'm in agreement Feyshtey. Just because people have nearly unlimited time to spend in-game and perhaps resources (money, etc.) as well doesn't necessarily make them better or the best. Does it give them an advantage? Sure, but doesn't necessarily make them better.
I've seen countless players in other MMO's who did more with less and even made a post about a real good friend of mine in EQ that impressed a lot of people in one of the BotB tournaments where he almost won it even though he was not nearly as well-equipped as other players in the tournament and he was much nicer and more willing to help other players than the other participants too.A
As you both said though I prefer the latter of the two if I had to choose.
Tervvo said:Mathir said:A great player is someone that masters every aspect of their class. Period. The end.
A great person would be someone that makes the game more enjoyable for others, but that is seperate and a different question. Great players are often great A-holes as well, largely because they expect the people they play with to take the game as serious as they do and demand that people play well.
I disagree, What you describe would be true in a single player game. In a group oriented MMORPG working with others is part of playing.
While certainly true in a single player game, I tend to think in a group oriented game, specifically designed for individual class roles within the group entity, that mastering your class is essential in playing with others if you want success. I don't think it's even rebuttable. Mastering your role is what makes you great. Period. This group based MMO has roles, whether it be in a group or a raid. If you master that role, you are the best at your class. If you're a healer, your role is to heal others (as well as other things) and if you can't master that role, others are not going to want to group with you regardless of how well you work with others in terms of politeness and personality, at least not in terms of challenging content.
This question is not about being the best person, though there is certainly nothing stopping an elite player (in terms of class mastery) from also being a world class person as well and helping others. Personality is an entirely different dynamic however, and whether you look at leaders from the top guilds in EQ through leaders in our military, very few, if any, are nice people. They demand you know your role and are an expert it in so that the group as a whole can have success, whether it is a raid or a military operation. And this can extrapolated to business CEOs and pretty much any other aspect of life. To be the best, you have to achieve the best results in whatever your role/job is. And while a pleasant personality might be more preferable, it also allows for others to slack off and be forgiven for mistakes. Competition and accountability is what causes people to excel and become the best.
>This question is not about being the best person, though there is certainly nothing stopping an elite player (in terms of class mastery) from also being a world class person as well and helping others. Personality is an entirely different dynamic however, and whether you look at leaders from the top guilds in EQ through leaders in our military, very few, if any, are nice people. They demand you know your role and are an expert it in so that the group as a whole can have success, whether it is a raid or a military operation. And this can extrapolated to business CEOs and pretty much any other aspect of life. To be the best, you have to achieve the best results in whatever your role/job is. And while a pleasant personality might be more preferable, it also allows for others to slack off and be forgiven for mistakes. Competition and accountability is what causes people to excel and become the best.<
I completely agree with this. From the Marine Corps to MMOs, this has held true. Well said sir.
Cromulent said:Nanoushka said:I guess that depends on your definition of 'great', and that seems rather personal to me (as I'm sure you are aware yourself :)). To me it's the friendly people who go out of their way to help someone, who take the time to explain things to a new player, who are kind in chat and not quick to judge someone else and/or their performance. Decent human beings. If they can play rather well that's a wonderful bonus of course but not a requirement.
Agree 100%. The great players are the ones you look forward to talking to when login in in the morning or after work. The ones that are friendly and helpful. I can put up with someone who isn't that great at playing their class if they are nice and friendly but I absolutely hate people who are arseholes and never want to group with them. I play MMOs for fun and dealing with people who are unkind or not team players just ruins the fun for me. From what I have seen the Pantheon community should be pretty good as everyone seems pretty nice from the interactions I have had from the community so far.
You can teach someone how to play a game. You can't teach someone to be a nice and decent human being.
We all know folks who are superlative at the game mechanics, their class. Fewer, and more special are those that are part of the community. The elitism brought on in the raid guild circles I have been a part of tends to attract the former, but there were always a few who stood out because they refused to be jaded and look down on the rest of the server for not '1%ing.'
The best players are those who enrich the community. Those who are fearless with raidmobs, grouping, soloing, crafting, harvesting, whatever. They are really good at what they do, and they either help others or at least become a resource or polite role model for those looking to 'be that good' one day. Being at the top of your game is fine, sharing it with others, not being judgmental of other playstyles, and recognizing the worth of the community despire your excellence (humility, essentially) is key.
BelgrimIcereaver said:>This question is not about being the best person, though there is certainly nothing stopping an elite player (in terms of class mastery) from also being a world class person as well and helping others. Personality is an entirely different dynamic however, and whether you look at leaders from the top guilds in EQ through leaders in our military, very few, if any, are nice people. They demand you know your role and are an expert it in so that the group as a whole can have success, whether it is a raid or a military operation. And this can extrapolated to business CEOs and pretty much any other aspect of life. To be the best, you have to achieve the best results in whatever your role/job is. And while a pleasant personality might be more preferable, it also allows for others to slack off and be forgiven for mistakes. Competition and accountability is what causes people to excel and become the best.<
I completely agree with this. From the Marine Corps to MMOs, this has held true. Well said sir.
Certainly agree with 'results' except no one remembers certain players fondly as "the best players" for being the biggest [expletive deleted] on the server. If you are the best rogue ever, great! If you are also the biggest loser ever, I'm not going to post 10 years later on a game forum about how awesome you were. Trust me. The player memory requires some sort of admiration. If you aren't also somewhat admirable, or at least neutral, chances are you chose to be an arse in a game, and got the reputation you deserved. (obviously speaking of 'you' in the third person, not implying you are one).
Edit: To add to this more directly of skill: It takes dedication to become the best. Reading every tooltip of every ability. Learning how everything interacts with everything else (learning other classes abilities) and learning how to move gear around in the right situations. Testing dps, ability rotations, etc. It takes practical experience, testing yourself in every situation possible so you aren't caught unaware. Learning encounters to know that this monster massive AoEs in the first 3 seconds, so without a stun you increase the possibility of dropping a group member. Sometimes, it also takes some natural skill and ability, but I'd say dedication to improvement is what makes every player more skilled.
To me, great players are the ones that handle things when the **it hits the fan. Those players who get better as the difficulty gets harder. They focus more and will pull out a success when 99% of players would have folded. Those who are on top of it when a fraction of a second response time matters in the crucial moments.
I can relate this question to a similar question that I have been asked countless times and have learned how to answer over the years. The similar question is what makes a great raid leader?
A great raid leaders voice gets clearer and quieter, not louder, when things start going badly. Their directions become more succinct and efficient. They rise to the challenge and can foresee what needs to be done basically before it happens. In those crucial moments when most people would call a wipe they figure out a way to pull it out...just like the great players.