To put it simply, it's a player who not only rises to the top, but also pulls up their fellow players with them.
The "top" doesn't necessarily mean best gear/most skilled either. The game should give players the ability to be great at many things. The greatest crafter, greatest economist, friendliest and most helpful etc.
The greatest players I remember from EQ1 were the ones who transcended into legend by not only being the best players but also well known in the EQ community for helping out others. I had a lot of admiration for people in uber guilds who would spend most of their time raiding and perfecting their characters, but would log on early to provide group buffs for the masses; or, they wouldn't mind chatting for a few moments to give some advice. Some of these players would even help out smaller guilds or guild alliances when they needed a main tank or some such.
There were even some players who weren't all that sociable or were socially awkward, but I could still respect their ability to rise to the top and be a top-tier player.
Unfortunately, the biggest criteria typically fall under high play time combined with great social skills.
High play time leads to higher experience, game knowledge, and opportunities to socialize with their fellow players. Once you add in the social skills they build a reputation on the server as someone everyone else wants to be around since they can leverage their gear/skill/knowledge to make everything else go smoothly.
There are exceptions, but this applies to just about every great player I can recall.
Great player is one who leads well, and is able to bring people that dont know the area,along sucesfully through an area. It is not easy to lead.
Also the great player- if in a new area to all- will stop and discuss strategies. Picks up on the non-verbal queues in a fight and changes tactics as a result. Can type and play at same time. Likewise great Group/raid members understand when leader says(types) "OM NBPSS" he means "On Boss!"
Taking it down a notch to lower levels, and what defies "good"- because from "good" then becomes "great".
Good players talk in group chat- learning how to talk and fight at same time. Good players are fine with a wipe and usually start heading back to where they died, right away, maybe discussing what was done or what they intended so that all know what the other can do and learn form heir class. Good players are fine with non-standard groups and will discuss other options or at least try the main goal/objective a few times and will have ideas for other goals/objectives if the first doesn't work out. Good players also pass on tips and tricks they have learned to other players in their class, or share them with their group so those group members can pass it on to their other friends that are in that same class.
Personally, I like when players try to liven up the conversation with lore based discussion or jokes- I always like it when we try to being some color into the area we are in via chat like: instead of "here comes a goblin" rather "here comes an angry goblin"- which begets the question " why is he angry? and things can go from there. I also like adding more personal drama to a quest line if that makes sense, I think it's harmless. "Oh Holpen meh! yon clansmen pisseth in the water upstream form where we bathe!" when the quest indicates to head to the clan and get a head, or something- that's what I mean.
Off the top of my head, I'd point to 3 factors.
Gaming intelligence: Some things that come to mind is being able to multi task, think and react quickly, problem solve, and stategize.
Practice: No mastter how naturally gifted you may be for gaming or anything else for that matter, practice makes perfect. To be great you must practice a lot and often to hone your skills.
Variety: To be a great player you must be able to adapt to all situations and you can't do that if you group with the same 5 people all the time. The more different classes and people you group with the better you'll be in the long run.
I do however agree with the above sentiments that a great person is superior to a great player. I'd rather group with a great person over a great player with major character flaws any day of the week. That said though, for all my years gaming, I can confidently say that a great person does not equal a great player. I've known more people than I can count that were awesome people but not so great players. I'd jump at the chance to group with them because I know we'd have so much more fun, but that doesn't make them great players imo, just great people.
IMO, greatest players are those with the social skills, who can motivate their guild members into achieving high-end objectives as a whole community.
These people often have influence even among other guilds, through the respect and credit that is given to them.
When he speaks, everybody listens.
It often comes with good knowledge of the game mechanisms, classes synergies, etc, but all these are secondary, social skills matter the most.
Many different ways at looking to great players.
1. Guild associations diplomacy.
2. Player skills
3. Analizing player
4. Ability to manuplate the system for gains.
5. Someone that crafts, builds full character up. Solid builds.
A parsing player with 1million damage over the next player does not make them great, but an Analizing player with button smashing.
We all have been there with EQ raiding after awhile. Rift, Wow all those games made this player active.
What advances these players? wanting everything out of the game, possible social acceptance, and some do not like to skip past anything.
1 persons great player, is not another persons great player.
A great player is someone that masters every aspect of their class. Period. The end.
A great person would be someone that makes the game more enjoyable for others, but that is seperate and a different question. Great players are often great A-holes as well, largely because they expect the people they play with to take the game as serious as they do and demand that people play well.
To me, the best players are those who never settle. I like the idea of players constantly challenging themselves to improve their game. Patience is extremely important. I appreciate playing with folks who understand that conquering obstacles can be a long, painful process. Great players empower those around them and are willing to spend an evening/weekend helping out a friend. Great players are guildmates that understand that any/all progression for their comrades is something that they can share in and consider as an extension of their own progression. For me, great players refuse to accept that something is "working good enough." Great players will sacrifice their own time and try to come up with innovative ideas/concepts/improvements that can have a positive impact on many.
Great players are those that find a way to overcome challenges while maintaining a high degree of respect and integrity, for both themselves and all whom they encounter. Great players find ways to do more with less. Great players lead by example rather than following what is considered to be the social norm. Great players are those that can handle competitive gaming and always remain classy in both victory and defeat. Great players embody a blend of being competitive, compassionate, talented, dedicated, humorous, understanding, patient, fair, respectful, genuine, and committed to overall excellence for themselves and their friends. I have enjoyed the privilege of getting to know many great players over the years, but never has it been so easily consistent to find them than right here in the Pantheon Community.
The selflessness of a player(s) I think is what makes these such a person unique and the best. Someone who is willing to help others....
In Everquest on Quellious server (though I think its been changed to something else now) the person who I always saw helping putting others above herself what seemed like 24/7 was a player named Penroc. Paladin that used to sit in PoK and just buff anyone who hailed her all day long. It used to be just her than eventually she had a Cleric guildy with her buffing next to her as well, even later on an Enchanter as well. Was the first time I had seen anything like this and the vibe in that area was always just so amazing. People getting on other classes to help lowbies with Damage Shields or SoW. Absolutely amazing.
I even had the chance to group with her and help her level some and I was just enthralled with everything she had to say. Always grateful and just talked about how a game can become so great if everyone donates some time to invest in not themselves but others. Truly inspiring.
I'd say it's players like her that really turned a community into something great!
Kilsin said:What, in your opinion, separates the great players from the rest in MMORPGs? #PRF #Communitymatters
Honestly, I think the answer is pretty simple: they care. No matter what the subject matter is, if you care, your brain will automatically devote more resources to it. If you really love what you're doing, it's easier to be good at it.
As many others I think there are many attributes/qualities that can make a player great.
I think for one, knowing how to play their class well is near the top of the list. I think it would be hard to consider a player great if they don't know how to play their class well. A player that does not know how to play their class well forces others in their group/guild/raid to have to work harder to make up for their lack of skill/preparedness, which can cause extra/undo stress that can take some of the fun/joy out of the game for those individuals. I don't expect any player to be perfect, but as long as they know their class well and/or are willing to work to become better that is a sign of greatness to me.
I also find greatness applies to those that are willing to take on some of the biggest/hardest challenges a game has to offer and commit the necessary time/effort to conquering those challenges. It could be slaying a mighty dragon, completing a very long,difficult quest, becoming a master of a tradeskill/profession or several other things.
As I just mentioned, I find greatness in players who take on difficult tasks and are rewarded accordingly with armor, weapons, etc. to show off their accomplishment. Truly great players to me though are those that can accomplish these amazing things and acquire awesome rewards from doing and be able to wield/wear those rewards and proudly show them off to other players, but still remain humble and not stick their noses up and look down on other players who may not be at their same level when it comes to items, equipment and experience.
I've seen it more often than I'd like where players at the highest level with the best equipment won't give other players the time of day to engage them in a quick conversation or answer a simple question. Some of those people even go out of their way to make everyone else aware of how much better they are than them.
I think players that go out of their way to immerse themselves in the game and enhance/improve the experience of other players that are sharing the world with them are truly great players. If you can't appreciate the MMO world you are in, immerse yourself in it and interact (in a positive way) with other players inhabiting the same world, then I'm not sure why you are playing to begin with.
I personally consider the best players to just be that, the best. I don't personally care how much they contribute to the community. The highest DPS Rogue worldwide is the best Rogue worldwide, to me. That's the function of the class, at least based on the precedent of other games.
I've raided with some truly questionable people, but I still envy their mechanical skill at the game. When it comes to beating the content, mechanical skill is what gets it done.
Liav said:I personally consider the best players to just be that, the best. I don't personally care how much they contribute to the community. The highest DPS Rogue worldwide is the best Rogue worldwide, to me. That's the function of the class, at least based on the precedent of other games.
I've raided with some truly questionable people, but I still envy their mechanical skill at the game. When it comes to beating the content, mechanical skill is what gets it done.
This could be true if they do the most dps while following the mechanic of the fight if they are merely just fighting a boss while they should be doing something else than they are only the best on paper but not much of anything else. plus damage is merely just damage it means nothing as to what the character actually is he could be a sore sport and just simply rude and be a high dps character, if this is the xase than he is definately not of the the best characters in my book.
Liav said:I personally consider the best players to just be that, the best. I don't personally care how much they contribute to the community. The highest DPS Rogue worldwide is the best Rogue worldwide, to me. That's the function of the class, at least based on the precedent of other games.
I've raided with some truly questionable people, but I still envy their mechanical skill at the game. When it comes to beating the content, mechanical skill is what gets it done.
And what if there were two rogues who could consistently generate comparable DPS output, but one was an elitist rager while the other actively helped the rogue community improve their mechanics? For many, community contribution is important. You can be the highest DPS rogue WW but if you do it with questionable tactics or in a way that disparages others, it's a turn off. I agree that flawless mechanic execution is very important when you're gauging who is the best at something, but the best of the best do it with class and attempt to bring others along for the ride. There are many folks out there who believe Tom Brady is the greatest football quarterback of all time. Then there are plenty of others who feel he may have cheated some along the way, thus tarnishing his achievements and placing a big fat asterisk next to his name in the record books.
Just my opinion of course ... but when the numbers are equal, or even very similar, the players who go out of their way to help others are generally viewed in a more positive light by the community at large. Being the greatest is being perceived as the greatest, and the more widespread that perception is, the more impactful it will feel. I am not knocking your opinion, just sharing some insight on why so many people place such a high emphasis on community contribution.
Mathir said:A great player is someone that masters every aspect of their class. Period. The end.
A great person would be someone that makes the game more enjoyable for others, but that is seperate and a different question. Great players are often great A-holes as well, largely because they expect the people they play with to take the game as serious as they do and demand that people play well.
This, totally.
Seems to me most folks are equating being a great person to being a great player. Imo, they are two entirely seperate concepts.
Like most of you, I have been playing MMO's since Ultima Online, Everquest (Original) and on and on. I started leading guilds around the time of the Everquest 2 era, and I plan on leading one in Pantheon. I think the community in EQ2 in the early times was such a solid, great community, as it was in SWG. That was a great time for MMOs.
I think what defines "Great" are people that put their guild/group/team above their own needs in game. MMOs are meant to be social experiances where the players interact and help each other out.
If you go look at some of the modern MMOs like Blade and Soul or Black Desert Online, you see a lot of trolls and toxic people (kids). Part of this is because the very concept of playing online with other people is no longer a NEW concept like it was for us back in 1999ish. We didnt really KNOW how to act with other players online, and generally, everyone was nice and helpful. Online play is old hat now. You see in in every console game, on phones, and MMOs. That USED to be what set the MMO genre apart, the online aspect. It no longer does.
I look back at 1999-2004 with heavy nostalgia for what we had. Those days are gone forever, but that does not mean we can't bring the multiplayer aspect back to MMOs. Final Fantasy XIV is a great game, but it feels like a single player game with a lobby that you queue for dungeons in. BDO has an amazing map/overworld bustling with activity, but the community is toxic and full of trolls.
I hope to find a lot of "great" players in Pantheon. Great players that like I said earlier, put the needs of the guild or group before their own personal goals. A guild tag should mean something again. Back in the day everything you did in game reflected on that guild tag above your head. Sorry if this post was all over the place, but I wanted to put some context behind what I consider a "great" player.
Cyradus Hateborn
~Lord Regent, League of Shadows
I think a great player is a Tolerant, Capable Person who knows the difference between play styles, and is capable of switching to either, or even a mix of the two.
Sometimes playing like a game of poker where you win or lose, and if you lose you try again and win , period, black and white; Or playing like with a Toy Airplane for example, an unstructured type of style, you use your imagination and the tools at hand to just have pure fun.
Of course not being too much of an ass helps also.
oneADseven said:And what if there were two rogues who could consistently generate comparable DPS output, but one was an elitist rager while the other actively helped the rogue community improve their mechanics? For many, community contribution is important. You can be the highest DPS rogue WW but if you do it with questionable tactics or in a way that disparages others, it's a turn off. I agree that flawless mechanic execution is very important when you're gauging who is the best at something, but the best of the best do it with class and attempt to bring others along for the ride. There are many folks out there who believe Tom Brady is the greatest football quarterback of all time. Then there are plenty of others who feel he may have cheated some along the way, thus tarnishing his achievements and placing a big fat asterisk next to his name in the record books.
Just my opinion of course ... but when the numbers are equal, or even very similar, the players who go out of their way to help others are generally viewed in a more positive light by the community at large. Being the greatest is being perceived as the greatest, and the more widespread that perception is, the more impactful it will feel. I am not knocking your opinion, just sharing some insight on why so many people place such a high emphasis on community contribution.
Yeah, I agree that all things else being equal that a better personality is preferred. Top guilds tend to not discriminate though, just the nature of things. If I had to pick I'd take the nicer player, but it's not always possible to do so if you're interested in being competitive.
Realistically it just depends on the content, too.
Top end raid guild? Personality matters a lot less than mechanical skill. If you're just doing casual grinding then I have nearly zero tolerance for really crappy people.
A great player (like a great person) is someone who inspires you. It could be to inspire you to craft, to explore, to join a guild, or whatever. They inspire you to do more. To clarify: they don't neccesarily inspire you to be like them, just to be the best you can be.
EDIT: I say this because I have played with some people that wanted to be helpful. They took me around and did all my quests for me. They handed me things and told me they were going to "set me up to play the game." I was already playing the game before they came along. Helpful insight and companionship was what I wanted. If they had clued me in on some cool objectives, or showed me some of the awesome stuff I could craft, it would have allowed me to play the game my way. What I needed was some extra knowledge and inspiration. A little help is not a bad thing, but help in and of itself can be stifling.
Everyone has the same idea, though some differ on 'player' vs 'person' ... but a great player will be someone you WANT to group with again or add to your friends list.
Though a 'Great/Awesome/Godly Player' with skills that is a Douche-Nozzle to me, is no longer anything other than on my Ignore list as an arrogant-ass.
To me Great players are ones that care. They don't really care about themself but they care about the world, the group, the game, other's enjoyment and knowledge/reputation. A great player takes the time to share information/knowledge freely and they also help people. I have seen a lot of knowledgeable players/people in MMOs but that doesn't make them great becasue their attitude/personality/whatever is so negative that I would rather spend my time helping newbies than I had to help that know it all.
One concern and point of emphasis I have is that many Guides/GM/Helpers start out wanting to help and care about the world but becasue of all the negativity in games and from people they get burnt out really fast. I know that guides/GMs are part of MMOs but good ones are hard to find and keep and if one is kept they need to be rewarded for their work/efforts in my opinion because that is a true example of a "Great" player.
Let me put my answer in terms of playing music.
Ever been to a rock concert, and the guitarist is really good, but he's always staring at his own hands; i.e. he's trying too hard. He's really just a technician.
A true virtuoso has mastered his craft to the point that it's second nature. He plays with the audience, yucks it up with the rest of the band, and has a good time.
Even when he misses the odd note, he absolutely buries it under the awesomeness of what comes after.
Playing an MMO is very similar, especially when playing one of the "difficult" classes.
A "virtuoso" who can crush when needed, but stops to make friends, who are sometimes in disbelief at the apparent ease he exhibits, usually won't have to claim to be the best. Others will do it for him.
Great, being such a wide open term, gets to mean whatever you want it to mean in this context. That being the case, while I appreciate some of the answers and disagree with others, I think arguing about it is silly.
For me, a great player is one that makes the game more enjoyable.
A great player can be world best dps in his class (I've played with one or to of those), but for me, he/she still has to be a good person, and fun to be around. Otherwise, I'm just watching numbers. That may please some players, but not myself. Greatness is more than numbers, its also the intangibles. To be really great, one should have a bit of everything.