I'll be fine with it regardless of how the toggle is implemented. Based on the current plan it seems like those who turn the toggle ON will be able to appreciate the look that I have gone out of my way to achieve for my character at all times. Those who turn it OFF will only be able to situationally appreciate the look that I have gone out of my way to achieve. Those situations will most likely be limited to non-combat as there is no chance I'll be sacrificing efficiency for aesthetics while attempting to navigate a dangerous world. Players will still feel the burden to switch out their gear the old fashioned way to ensure that everybody can appreciate the look of their character. I feel kind of torn on whether or not I would be willing to go through the trouble of manually swapping out my gear. Part of me says yes because like Celandor said, the visual appearance of our characters is important. Another part of me says no because if someone purposely chooses to turn the toggle off it's because they prefer to see patchwork sets and if that's what they're into then more power to them.
I mostly approve of an appearance tab because it always grinds my gears when my armor drastically doesn't match. My personal policy is to keep whatever chest piece I have and build the rest of my appearance slots to match it. While I do hate immersion-breaking cosmetics as described above, and I know several people who would dye all their gear an eye-watering shade of orange just to annoy people, I prefer the freedom of choice that cosmetic armor grants us compard to being forced to break up my nice, green leather armor with the blueberry colored pants that give me more mana.
I think it would be a great compromise if you could toggle individual players OFF. As you mentioned, there will be some players that go out of their way to make the most annoying look possible. Those are the kind of players that ruin it for everybody else. If the toggle is universally "On" or "Off" then the trolls are empowered because they know they can contribute toward the idea of preventing other players from using the feature as it's intended. Trolls will pop out of the woodwork ... knowing every player that they can motivate to turn their toggle "Off" will frustrate the players who go out of their way to invest in their appearance. I think it makes more sense for the toggle to be universally "On" and then allow players the choice of either universally turning it "Off" or turning it off for individual players.
Why in the world would you care if someone has toggled off cosmetic gear? Its not like you have to look at their screen. You see yourself as you want to see you and others for whatever reasone weather its for immersion or for other reasons can play the game how they want to play the game. I shouldn't have to look at outfits which break the feel of the game. Warrior in a pink tutu for example. Hey if you want to look like that great but i shouldn't have to look at it! And you know what you have no idea if i am looking at it or not because the toggle is on my screen not yours!
To be fair, if a warrior wants to wear a pink tutu outfit, the toggle isn't going to always prevent you from seeing it. Rather than putting it in their appearance slot they just equip it in their primary slot. This is obviously more difficult to do while you're out fighting stuff but trust me when I say this, there are players who will have these pink tutu loadouts saved and they will use them (along with other annoying outfits) as often as possible. It's also entirely possible that they equip a pink tutu in their primary slot and then an orange tutu in their appearance slot. If the toggle is universal, the trolls are empowered. They get to annoy you regardless of which option you go with, but also get to enjoy the idea that they can influence how you choose to see other players.
*Edit -- Just to be clear, I highly doubt we will actually see tutu outfits in Pantheon.
Cynwulf said:Why in the world would you care if someone has toggled off cosmetic gear? Its not like you have to look at their screen. You see yourself as you want to see you and others for whatever reasone weather its for immersion or for other reasons can play the game how they want to play the game. I shouldn't have to look at outfits which break the feel of the game. Warrior in a pink tutu for example. Hey if you want to look like that great but i shouldn't have to look at it! And you know what you have no idea if i am looking at it or not because the toggle is on my screen not yours!
Kaen said:
Another idea I had is to allow players to sacrifice gear in order to add it to their cosmetic catalogue. If someone is willing to destroy a piece of gear they own (and thus remove it from the market--woot) then I think they've earned the right to wear its cosmetic appearance over whatever they're wearing. Just a thought.
I'd support that. I'm all for eliminating/reducing the secondhand market. It helps keep crafters in demand :)
oneADseven said:To be fair, if a warrior wants to wear a pink tutu outfit, the toggle isn't going to always prevent you from seeing it. Rather than putting it in their appearance slot they just equip it in their primary slot. This is obviously more difficult to do while you're out fighting stuff but trust me when I say this, there are players who will have these pink tutu loadouts saved and they will use them (along with other annoying outfits) as often as possible. It's also entirely possible that they equip a pink tutu in their primary slot and then an orange tutu in their appearance slot. If the toggle is universal, the trolls are empowered. They get to annoy you regardless of which option you go with, but also get to enjoy the idea that they can influence how you choose to see other players.
*Edit -- Just to be clear, I highly doubt we will actually see tutu outfits in Pantheon.
That would be the case if cosmetic gear can be placed in primary gear slots... I would hope not! Cosmetic gear should only be for cosmetic slots though i suppose destroying real gear to make it into a cosmetic item would be fine.
I don't think we'll see actual "cosmetic gear." My understanding is that we'll have an appearance tab similar to what EQ2 used. It means that you can equip whatever gear you want in the primary slots but your character appearance will reflect what is in the appearance slots. If you don't put anything in the appearance slot (each piece of gear would have it's own slot) then the appearance for that slot would default to the standard graphic of what's equipped in the primary slot.
Doing individual toggles by player seems.... system instensive. It would be very awkward UI to design, and would probably be too difficult to implement. Probably not worth the system power it would take or the time it would take to program, particularly if they keep to their promise to reduce the amount of information sent client-side to help prevent people from hacking. I'm an amateur programmer at best though, maybe it's simpler than I think it would be. Making an all-or-nothing toggle would be much more believable.
Darchias said:Doing individual toggles by player seems.... system instensive. It would be very awkward UI to design, and would probably be too difficult to implement. Probably not worth the system power it would take or the time it would take to program, particularly if they keep to their promise to reduce the amount of information sent client-side to help prevent people from hacking. I'm an amateur programmer at best though, maybe it's simpler than I think it would be. Making an all-or-nothing toggle would be much more believable.
Yeah I'm not sure how resource intense an individual toggle would be. I just look at it the same way I look at a global auction channel. It's quite possible that someone wants to keep an eye on the channel but when they see a specific player start spamming it, they would prefer the option to mute that individual player rather than the entire channel. If it's too intense on resources to implement the individual toggle, it is what it is.
Cynwulf said:Why in the world would you care if someone has toggled off cosmetic gear? Its not like you have to look at their screen. You see yourself as you want to see you and others for whatever reasone weather its for immersion or for other reasons can play the game how they want to play the game. I shouldn't have to look at outfits which break the feel of the game. Warrior in a pink tutu for example. Hey if you want to look like that great but i shouldn't have to look at it! And you know what you have no idea if i am looking at it or not because the toggle is on my screen not yours!
Because it's a social game. People go through the trouble and expense of doing something and someone else just turns it off? I can't believe people would actually be offended about another toon's look so badly that they'd need to turn it off. Just make fun of them.
oneADseven said:Darchias said:Doing individual toggles by player seems.... system instensive. It would be very awkward UI to design, and would probably be too difficult to implement. Probably not worth the system power it would take or the time it would take to program, particularly if they keep to their promise to reduce the amount of information sent client-side to help prevent people from hacking. I'm an amateur programmer at best though, maybe it's simpler than I think it would be. Making an all-or-nothing toggle would be much more believable.
Yeah I'm not sure how resource intense an individual toggle would be. I just look at it the same way I look at a global auction channel. It's quite possible that someone wants to keep an eye on the channel but when they see a specific player start spamming it, they would prefer the option to mute that individual player rather than the entire channel. If it's too intense on resources to implement the individual toggle, it is what it is.
It would be extremely expensive.
Krixus said:Cynwulf said:Why in the world would you care if someone has toggled off cosmetic gear? Its not like you have to look at their screen. You see yourself as you want to see you and others for whatever reasone weather its for immersion or for other reasons can play the game how they want to play the game. I shouldn't have to look at outfits which break the feel of the game. Warrior in a pink tutu for example. Hey if you want to look like that great but i shouldn't have to look at it! And you know what you have no idea if i am looking at it or not because the toggle is on my screen not yours!
Because it's a social game. People go through the trouble and expense of doing something and someone else just turns it off? I can't believe people would actually be offended about another toon's look so badly that they'd need to turn it off. Just make fun of them.
You mean i cannot be social just because i have your silly cosmetic toggle off? Part of being part of a fantasy world is the immersion within the world i find cosmetic gear often breaks that immersion. I like to see what someone actually has on. Functional equipment weather its piece meal set or a matching set of gear. Otherwise you will have ogre warriors running around in diapers....
Cynwulf said:Why in the world would you care if someone has toggled off cosmetic gear?
I thought part of the motivation was that other people could see your alterations? I'm trying to wrap my head around it seeing as I am not a person that cares about cosmetics in the least.
If others can't see your creation is it worth the time to create it? For some yes, others no. I think the toggle will definitely have an effect on the amount of people who will use cosmetic options.
I think the toggle should work the other way around. As far as concerns about diapers and tutus, I can confidently say (with absolutely no authority) that they will not be in Pantheon, period. I think the idea of one person seeing a patchwork knight while another person sees someone in a matching outfit is pretty immersion breaking. Any time a player needs to ask another player what kind of settings they are using, it takes you out of the game world. Not a huge deal to me either way.
Cynwulf said:Krixus said:Cynwulf said:Why in the world would you care if someone has toggled off cosmetic gear? Its not like you have to look at their screen. You see yourself as you want to see you and others for whatever reasone weather its for immersion or for other reasons can play the game how they want to play the game. I shouldn't have to look at outfits which break the feel of the game. Warrior in a pink tutu for example. Hey if you want to look like that great but i shouldn't have to look at it! And you know what you have no idea if i am looking at it or not because the toggle is on my screen not yours!
Because it's a social game. People go through the trouble and expense of doing something and someone else just turns it off? I can't believe people would actually be offended about another toon's look so badly that they'd need to turn it off. Just make fun of them.
You mean i cannot be social just because i have your silly cosmetic toggle off? Part of being part of a fantasy world is the immersion within the world i find cosmetic gear often breaks that immersion. I like to see what someone actually has on. Functional equipment weather its piece meal set or a matching set of gear. Otherwise you will have ogre warriors running around in diapers....
You mean you have to immediately resort to a logical fallacy to attack my post? And lol about bringing up immersion, as if one person seeing one thing and another person seeing something entirely different wouldn't be immersion breaking. Hilarious irony.
Oh, and btw, so we're clear, I think cosmetic gear is stupid and I wish it wouldn't be in the game. No dyes, none of that crap, just what you looted from the goblin's cold dead hands. If it IS in the game, having a toggle makes it even worse.
Okay, so. Both sides have good reasons for their point of view, but one of them can be solved easily.
If you want other people to see the cosmetic set you worked hard to put together, put it in your normal gear slots, if you're afraid that people have turned cosmetics off. And if your argument against that is 'but what about the social aspect?!', then there's lots and lots of downtime where you have the opportunity to put on whatever you want in your normal slots, and be social with other people. Downtime (between grouping) is an important aspect of the game as well, so you will have plenty of opoortunity for it. ..'but what about the people who want to inspect me before they invite me to their groups?!' ..Well, just live with the tedium of having to take re-equip your normal set. You won't even have to need extra bag space, because your cosmetic slots can store it for you.
The people who want to see what you're actually wearing won't have an option to do so, if they're forced to look at your cosmetic set while you're grouping with them.
I'm on the side of wanting to see what gear you're actually using. There's a sense of pride having obtained useful, hard-to-get gear, and the option to be in awe over someone who's done just that tends to lose its grandeur, if everyone can just pop on a good looking set of gear in their cosmetic slots, so you never see what they're wearing without having to inspect them.
Preechr said: Clearly nobody is convincing anyone of anything here I hope that BiS gear makes you guys look sufficiently stupid so you can all be happy looking like Rainbow Brite dumpster divers, and I hope there’s a decent amount of good looking options so the rest of us can look like actual adventurers in a fantasy setting I do pray that VR doesn’t ever introduce stupid cosmetic horse/pumpkin heads or other immersion breaking silliness, but a small part of me kinda hopes the BiS raid drop that everybody ends up working their butts off for looks like a tutu
This thread has run its course folks, these types of back and forth arguments do not help anyone, they just create arguments. We have addressed this many times and you will be able to see what we decide once you're in-game after launch.
Please do not create any more topic on Cosmetic items.