It is great to see so many crafters around! For those who don;t, I completely understand too, I think that is why it is so important to not only have a good crafting system but also a good mix of crafters and non-crafters so the supply and demand is there, as long as the items are balanced against drops, that is. :)
Nice replies folks!
It may be out of scope for Pantheon (due to differing stats on the same types of materials (e.g. both theses materials are steel, but this one is better for armor and this one is better for weapons)) but Star Wars Galaxies had such an incredibly in-depth, complex, and rewarding crafting system. It would be awesome if Pantheon could take a page out of SWG's book and reward crafters who have an deep knowledge of the crafting system with better wares compared to those who don't.
The guy who has a spreadsheet open with a bunch of different materials, stats, and calculations should be able to make a better longsword than a more casual player.
How do you implement this? Hell if I know.
I like crafting as it pertains to the class or character, like some can research where others cannot, or some can make potions where others cannot.
I also like being led to a minor proficiency in other crafts in pursuit of a main craft, for instance, tailoring would need some brewing to make tanning fluid or dyes.
Ideal crafting to me would be able to use things up. So if I slay a Lion, I will get its hide and be able to make cat-gut thread and have some meat left over, that if I add something to the meat I can make a stew or soup.
I think baking should be available to all, and like some systems where the combine makes double or triple the amount. I found giving away nice stat food is a good way to break the ice in a new group, as well as give-aways to newbies as it acts like a buff that lasts longer than a spell; if the food has special stats or resists.
Kilsin said:How much of a crafter are you, do you enjoy crafting in MMORPG's and if so, what do you enjoy about it? If not, why don't you like it?
I appreciate crafting, let me put it that way. In EQ1, as a Shaman, I naturally got into Alchemy though in the early days it wasn't as much of a money maker as it was later in the game. That said, when I heard about the Coldain Prayer Shawl quest and saw it required maxing out every tradeskill I found doing that actually a pleasant diversion and just loved the item we earned in the end. I feel that was a perfectly balanced effort in vs reward out quest. I would not mind seeing more such quests that involve tradeskills provided there isn't some idiotic limitation where I can only maximize one (or just a handful) of tradeskills.
Guys, you have a lot to develop in this game. Lets not overthink this. Copy/Paste Vanguard's crafting and call it a day. Whatever you do, do NOT have click to combine. Strategic minigames are a must for crafting. EQ2 started it off, Vanguard made it even better. Everything about Vanguard's crafting system was great. If you can keep that and improve on it, great. But seriously, everyone here would be happy if you just cut/pasted that code into this game (in a theoretical sense).
I usually do take the time to craft in games, and tend to do it as I level rather than waiting for highest level, and then filling out all of my crafting skills then.
The things I craft tend to make me gold more often than getting the items I need. In fact I think I craft as a favor to others more often than I craft for myself. I must choose the wrong things haha=)
I'm basically a fan of gathering raw materials - only crafting consumables for my characters and groups if that is an option. Potions and food are the two that immediately spring to mind.
If my character can wander the world and mine some rocks or harvest some herbs that I can sell, great! If I can use those in making consumables to make my adventuring more effective or efficient, even better! Otherwise I'm happy to buy crafting gear from those full-time crafter out there - maybe even getting a deal by supplying them with the raw materials they need to turn a profit.
I enjoy the crafting in the games I play. I enjoyed EQ 2 and Vanguard the most in making the items. WoW was pretty easy along with Rift and GW2.
EQ 1 was by far the hardest, with slow skill ups and many fails, it was also one of the most challenging having to hunt rockhoppers for their hides, or bears, spiders. (The crafting aspect was very basic). Most of the others I have played is mine this, pick that, skin this which was by far the easiest as you always got materials, rather then the randomnis of EQ 1.
I am a huge fan of crafting in most genres. It provides a great excuse to go out and explore the world harvesting resources, searching for rare materials, and discoverying different recipes. It's also a great way to help out the guild by handing out consumables or crafted armor.
Repeating the consensus above, it should be a complex and engaging system that requires effort and time to specialize. As Kilsin mentioned there should be a mix of crafters and non-crafters so there is no need to dumb down the mechanics for all. I am a big fan of Vanguard crafting, but would like to see Pantheon evolve and enhance the system instead of simply copy/paste. I know there are several crafting fans on the team with great ideas of what it can be.
I am not a huge crafter but do enjoy it when there is a goal or purpose in mind. EQ1 had some great items that required a lot of work in crafting (Coldain Prayer Shawl), I would love to see this kind of thing again. EQ2 had an excellent crafting system, but I would prefer it to be dumbed down a tad from what it was at release(no idea what it looked like later on). I like the mini-game but I do not enjoy 99 steps to get to make some insignificant piece of armor.
I really don't want to see is a crafting system where the best items come from crafters. I think that screws up a game of adventure and magic when ultimately someone sitting in a city can make things better then what a dragon drops? I am fine there being great crafted items and some that can compete a tear or two below top end raid gear, but it should not rival raid gear. I would prefer a system that does not compete with crafting/raiding, but more so compliments one another. A smith that can reinforce a dropped shield or sharpen a sword, a tailor that can mend a robe of awesomeness. But I really really don't want to see a market where crafters hold the keys and in turn hold everyone hostage with prices......balance.
Kilsin said:How much of a crafter are you, do you enjoy crafting in MMORPG's and if so, what do you enjoy about it? If not, why don't you like it?
Crafting is something I like to dabble with when the urge strikes me. It's something I like to take in small doses, or when I've run out of other things to do. It's just not my preferred activity. I enjoy harvesting and selling materials while I travel more than I do grinding out crafting levels.
That said, I absolutely hate being subjugated to crafting... when developers gate non-crafting content behind crafting levelsl. I'm perfectly fine with these gates for certain scenarios (i.e. zone requires a magically crafted key to enter, or a high level crafted item using certain drops to summon a raid boss) etc as long as it doesnt require that I do them personally. I'm perfectly OK bringing a crafter friend along, or calling on the community and paying a crafter to get what I want/need.
Don't get me wrong, I think crafting is great... I just don't want to be forced into arbitrarily leveling a crafting skill in order to progress the non-crafting game.
There is nothing wrong with a system that has deep complex crafting and the economy is heavily based around crafters so that if you do not want to craft, you can buy gear from crafters. I don't see that a system has to have tons and tons of ways to get gear without crafting. It is not binary. Part of why VG was great was because it was easy to sell gear as a crafter, because there was great demand for even basic armor because it was very hard to find any gear anywhere else. It should be the same...you had a VERY hard time getting a good set of armor in every slot from drops in EQ and this should be the same. Great dropped pieces should be the exception, and it should take a LONG time to outfit each slot in quality dropped gear.
Dwarven smithy here.
Even if system is crap, I have patience, and knowledge to craft. Benefits aren't seen by many, but there is a use in the schematics of crafting, even if it is just to make an advantage of coin. There will always be someone who is willing to buy that extra +1 to a level 1 sword. I do what most others think they are willing to do but they end up in not fullfilingl the role of what is needed in commerce, logistics, crafting, economy.
Crafting to me is a support class with its own role. One that is needed (should be needed) in that when quartermastering for friends, party, guild, army, city, industry, you provide the best quality goods. As well as to make a name for yourself in the world others would know your excellence at not only customer service, but the top quality of crafts/repairs.
I'm great with limited bag space/inventory/banks and knowing what to pick up to use for a trade. It would be nice to see a game where everything dropped could be used to create something different vs having 100 of 1 item to create the same thing per crafting level. To learn the recipes through experimenting of smithing/sewing/adhesive compounds to make a variety of items as well strength and quality of said items.
Am I a crafter?? Is Mickey Mouse a rodent?? Of coarse I am. And so is Mickey. In my opinion crafting makes up 50% of the gaming experience. And exploring another 30%. Besides what would I do with all the crap I collect if not make some nice items? As stated I am a HORDER of obscene proportions and cannot remember ever selling items to others to use in crafting. If I have it and they are looking for the items I usually donate them. In p99 I have an enchanter with 3 bags full of spells and sometimes I sit in the tunnel waiting to see if anyone asks to buy them. I usually give them away but do not offer them free in auction because the chances for toons who need them for themselves is far outweighed by the chance for people who want to resell them. Same as crafting items.
But yes I am a crafter and will always be. I just hope VR limits they number of possible crafts one can get involved into or I will ,once again, be swamped with crafting items as will my alts. Maybe 2 crafting schools and 2 gathering skills max.
Kilsin said:How much of a crafter are you, do you enjoy crafting in MMORPG's and if so, what do you enjoy about it? If not, why don't you like it?
I'm a total crafter nut, started out in EQ1 because I didn't have the play time to keep up level wise with my guildies and the time I was playing I got 0 XP from the massivly red mobs while on my lvl 16 breeze bot. The guild would cart me around to all kinds of places I shouldn't be at lvl 16 just so I could give them breeze and feed them with arrows. It was great fun even though I didn't get any levels.
Since then every game I've played I've done crafting first and leveling second. Most of the time I would only level so I could get my components easier.
Looking forward to seeing what great crafting there is in Pantheon.
Mathir said:Guys, you have a lot to develop in this game. Lets not overthink this. Copy/Paste Vanguard's crafting and call it a day. Whatever you do, do NOT have click to combine. Strategic minigames are a must for crafting. EQ2 started it off, Vanguard made it even better. Everything about Vanguard's crafting system was great. If you can keep that and improve on it, great. But seriously, everyone here would be happy if you just cut/pasted that code into this game (in a theoretical sense).
No, 'minigames' aren't a must. Some people like them, others despise them. Vanguard crafting wasn't and isn't the end-all-be-all of crafting mechanics.
Main point of crafting to me is being able to tailor fit a specific piece of gear that i have not been able to aguire through normal gameplay. Bracers for example are pretty common but a plate chest or robe is a bit more class specific and thus easier to craft if you take the time. I am hoping stats can be added to fit specific classes in the game other than a base set of XXX which can not be altered.
If it is old EQ style tradeskills, then nope. That was horrid and I hated every second that I spent even attempting it.
If it is something like EQ2 or Rift or LOTRO or something like that which is a little more modern then I will do some.
Yep. I love crafting. So much in fact that I even started a website dedicated to crafting within Pantheon. It is probably the thing I am looking forward to most when it comes to Pantheon. I just love sitting down for a few hours making things for people. It is also cool to work out what sells well and what doesn't and to try and make some money while doing the crafting.
Plus you can either farm the goods required for crafting or you can do some market trading and buy it from other players which also helps to increase interaction with the community which I always enjoy.
I'd love it if the crafting system in Pantheon was really in-depth and complicated. It would make playing the game even more fun. Things that you actually need to spend hours working out how to do correctly just make it even more rewarding when you finally work out how the system works.
So yes I am extremely excited about crafting within Pantheon.
Depends on the game to be honest. At my heart, I'd say I'm extremely market oriented. If that market is made up primarily of player made goods then Yes I am a crafter, if that market is largely made up of NPC drops with a few crafted items thrown in a convience filler, then No I wouldn't consider myself a crafter except if I need to be for something specific.
Ultimately what attracts me to crafting is the demand for it. I love to mass produce items and if I need to track my resources/crafting/sales with a spreadsheet then I feel right at home. I know, I'm one of those people who gets into the math of things. I love nothing better than a spreadsheet and applying it to great effect in gameplay. Yes I love(d) eve and it will always hold a special place in my heart but that game took crafting to intense levels then piled on PVP, diplomacy, and a number of other obligations. Long story short I just didn't have the time to put in and ultimately if I needed to take a break for more than a week or 2 I couldn't gaurentee my assets safety unless I spent a fortune and multiple weeks hauling it all out of null to a safer area.
Vandraad said:Mathir said:Guys, you have a lot to develop in this game. Lets not overthink this. Copy/Paste Vanguard's crafting and call it a day. Whatever you do, do NOT have click to combine. Strategic minigames are a must for crafting. EQ2 started it off, Vanguard made it even better. Everything about Vanguard's crafting system was great. If you can keep that and improve on it, great. But seriously, everyone here would be happy if you just cut/pasted that code into this game (in a theoretical sense).
No, 'minigames' aren't a must. Some people like them, others despise them. Vanguard crafting wasn't and isn't the end-all-be-all of crafting mechanics.
What possible complaint can you have about a strategic mini-game that adds fun and excitement to crafting? And Vanguard was the end-all-be-all for crafting mechanics to date in an MMORPG. If you want click to combine, there are a ton of failed MMOs out there offering that crap.